Wally on the Bubble?

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WestCoastJoe
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hutch wrote:After Smart ran the ball out of the endzone instead of taking the knee, did anyone notice when Wally grabbed him to talk and he just kept on walking like he wasn't interested in hearing what Wally had to say...? Maybe Wally has lost the team and it's time to move on?
We've seen a lot of coaches in a lot of sports lose the team. And one of the symptoms looks just as you described it. Players walk away from coaches who are trying to talk to them.

Mark Washington was trying to talk to Javy Glatt when the game was already lost. Washington was intense. Javy walked away. Washington started to follow him and stopped.

That kind of stuff is when it gets ugly. Players get reckless. Coaches can't find the right buttons to push. Players feel singled out, embarrassed. Coaches feel helpless. It gets ugly.

Wally tends to keep his cool in the big picture. He has been counted out before and turned things around. It is no sure thing that he can turn it around this time. He doesn't have the great quarterback who can hide a lot of a team's weaknesses. And most concerning of all, his judgments are questionable fairly often now: personnel evaluations, "best before" dates, how to hide draft choices, schemes, coaching hires, game management decisions, etc.

As has been mentioned, Wally's personal "best before" date might have been when Hufnagel was brought in to Training Camp to tune up the offence. In retrospect, Wally as GM and Hufnagel as Head Coach would have been a great move for the team. Do we have Wally's successor on the staff now? Doesn't look like it IMO. Here are a couple of shots out of the blue: Matt Dunigan deserves another shot at Head Coach at some time. Too early for Dave Dickenson? Not necessarily. If the season carries on as it has thus far, at what time does a change start to look good? I expect David Braley is much more patient than us fans, but even he must be wondering if the leadership of the Lions is in good shape.

It's at a time like this that we, including Wally, miss the wisdom and esperience of Bobby Ackles.
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Toppy Vann
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It is not uncommon for a player to do what Smart did in walking by his HC at that time. It usually is not the right time to speak to a player as it is just anger coming from frustration. WB should have been asking the ST coach what was happening. That situation should have been clarified on the sidelines before the kick. If you just want to humiliate the player you grab him as he comes off, but if you want to wait for the teachable moment you wait as that guy surely knows he blew it. I'd not read more into it like Wally lost the room.

As far as Buck coming back in, WB could be saying to his vets - you guys created this mess, you clean it up. He also knows that Lulay has a lot to learn yet and tossing him in too soon is not the right way to develop his guy.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
zark
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26,000 for the Hamilton game and around 27,000 for the Stamps. I think Braley is expecting bigger numbers than that. Buck is not much of a draw, and his mediocre play suggests that. Whatever Wally's going to do he better do it soon. I think those numbers should have been alot higher against a team that won the Grey Cup.
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I think part of the current problem for the team is that Wally only needs 4 more games . That is not high mark to shoot for . So he may be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel already , in other words coasting to the finish .
I know this won't happen , but since most think we need new blood in the coaching ranks , why not call up old DD and offer him the O-C position ? He seems to be a big part of the Stamps game day mind-set at this time and what is putting them over BC now .
I know O-C is pretty high point to start him at , but that's the only way BC would get him.
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jcalhoun wrote:Hey all,

I haven't lost faith in Wally because I think he views things in the long-term, and overall, that's good for the club. And that's what I think is happening this year. We're panicking because of a lousy start, the numerous deficiencies that have been exposed, etc. Calm down. This is how Rider fans behave! It's a long season.

I think the Bates/Williams situation earlier this season is a good example of how Wally approaches problems. Both players were on the downside of their careers, if not the outright end, as evidenced by their lack of play in Winnipeg. But both men could have played here this year, made an impact, and been more effective than their replacements have been thus far. But that isn't Wally's style. He very rarely makes decisions that have a short term benefit at the expense of the long term. For the health of the club, we have to watch some really ugly play now, a lot of mistakes, as players learn the CFL game, their position, and how to work as a team. This is why I think it extremely unlikely that Hunt, Armour, Bruce or Printers will be signed here.

This season hasn't been pretty. But then, 2004 didn't start pretty, nor did last year --and neither season would be classified as failures.

This team will start winning & new stars will emerge. Be patient. Wally's formula for success is proven --it just so happens that right now we're in the unpleasant bit.

While I'm not big on conspiracy theories, or speaking ill of Buono out of a sense of frustration, I sometimes feel that Wally deliberately makes questionable decisions to push the team. Punting from 15 yards deep in the endzone, for example: what purpose could this serve other than to expose poor play, and thus be justification for making change?

That said, I do think the Lions have serious problems related to coaching, though don't know who is responsible (ultimately, it's Buono). The grim truth about this team since 2006 is that they are boring. I don't know how many times I've sat in the stands and just waited patiently for the defence to get back on the field so that you could see something resembling entertainment. This is what's unforgivable for me.

In 2004 or 5 Buono did an interview on TSN and was talking about the Vancouver market and he said (I paraphrase) "it isn't enough to win in this market, you have to be exciting." He was right.

I really don't care about winning twelve games in a season, wrapping up first place, and going two for five in Western Finals. I want to go to the game, and win or lose, be shaking my head, still unable to believe they managed to score on some ridiculous play, some third down gamble, etc. 2004 & 05 were like that because of Printer's athletic ability, his mad, desperate running around. Flutie was more exciting for one incredible season. Dunigan had one great year before that. All of those teams were exciting. Frankly, I'd rather watch a season like '05 where the team was exciting but came up short, than a team like '06 that plugged its way along to winning the Grey Cup.

I think this is the essential conflict: the Lions can be conservative across the board, and be successful over the long term, as they have been since Wally's arrival. Or they can be exciting. What they need to be exciting is to get players that can provide excitement despite the systems, thinking & over-all strategy the team employs, or undergo a massive change in the thinking/coaching/systems the team has used for the last several years.

I'm not wise enough to look at a player and say, he's not playing well enough. I don't know enough about what teams are doing to stymie the Lions on any given series. But what I, and every other fan can recognize clear as day, is the fire a team has when they're playing with confidence, when they're playing to win. In 1983 (if memory serves) the first kickoff in the new Dome was an onside kick. Trick plays, going deep, blitzing from everywhere --the unexpected. This is where excitement is, this is what creates buzz, creates fans. The Lions aren't doing this and this is why, despite the Lions fantastic record over the last several years, (and the marked improvement in all the off-field aspects of the game), we're not regularly seeing 40,000 plus in the stands, as we did when Flutie was here.

I know that Printers has few fans on this board, but in 2005 it was reported that he brought in some game tape from the previous year, in an attempt to rekindle the killer attitude they'd had for stretches in '04. What he was attempting to do, is seems perfectly clear to me, was desperately trying to bring some excitement to a system that didn't allow for it. Please don't focus on this bit if you're among the ranks of Printers haters...we all know about his issues. But the notion that a player would say, guys, THIS is how we have to play is what I think we need more of, and I think it unlikely until the highest levels decide to change. I believe Jarious attempted to do that last year, and got benched for his efforts. But I could be wrong --I don't pretend to have any special insight or expertise.

I wrote a long post at the end of last season detailing the problems I had with drunks & bad game-day experiences, and for that reason, I'm not going to games anymore. I may end up heading to a few this fall. A return would be instant, INSTANT, if the team decided to throw caution to the wind and make an effort to be exciting. But sadly, I don't see that happening. I see the team recovering and a boring, 9-9 or 10-8 season being strung together.

Part of me would like to think that something relatively simple could lead to a dramatic change, like Buck calling his own plays. But I have doubts.

The 13 year-old boy in me (who doesn't care about anything other than long TD passes) would like to see the Lions sign Bruce and Printers immediately. And then sign Hunt & Armour to boot. But I know that isn't particularly wise. Maybe, though, wise isn't what this team needs at the moment.

Cheers,

James
:whs:
I hate boring football. If that's all Buck has, I'll start going to the theater with my wife. I need fun and excitement in my life and I don't owe Buck a living. Let's see how many people show up next game with safe and sound Buck.
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Lucky for us it is the Riders, and that should account for an extra 15K in fans to BC Place.... :wink:

The difference that this weather and BC Place don't mix well for a large crowd. Add in our lousy offensive production at home and you aren't going to find any new fans coming, the life line that is necessary for larger crowds. It is going to be difficult at least until the Lions start showing some real signs of life (that means convincing wins).
Entertainment value = an all time low
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zark wrote:
I hate boring football. If that's all Buck has, I'll start going to the theater with my wife. I need fun and excitement in my life and I don't owe Buck a living. Let's see how many people show up next game with safe and sound Buck.
Can't blame Buck. He doesn't call the plays; he just execute the plays called by the Offensive Coordinator.
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Many have pointed out that back in '04 BC had a similar 1-3 start and we shouldn't therefore worry about it now . There is one flaw in that thinking , because there is one difference now and that difference is that this isn't '04 , it's ' 09. The similarity ends with the numbers 1-3 , just because things turned around and things ended up somewhat happily everafterward in '04 , it has no bearing whatsoever on '09 . What happened back then does not mean we will have the same thing happen now . It could very well be that things turn around , but at this point they haven't , and nothing from the past can change that. We could very well end up at 4-14 this year or even worse , so there is nothing wrong with fans talking about "what's wrong with the team" and people here are not bandwagon jumpers ,if they were, they would not be here discussing it now.
There are many differences between this season and '04 . Now many teams have caught onto BC's thinking and surpassed it . Just look over across the field in the Calgary game and you can see DD over there knowing everything about BC , while WB seems to know very little about what's going on over there . This does not inspire much confidence.
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James has it right...get out there on the ede or stay on shore! Let"s play some of the guys with passion instead of the guys worried about their pensions.
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Toppy Vann wrote: Wally just has to admit it - his daughter got Lumbala wrong. No scout is purrfect.
Don't tell me his daughter has something to do with the football operations........ :bang:
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Toppy Vann
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kenny wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote: Wally just has to admit it - his daughter got Lumbala wrong. No scout is purrfect.
Don't tell me his daughter has something to do with the football operations........ :bang:
Not sure if he she is with the team but Lumbala was her find according to WB and the media:

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/sto ... 0f187422b7

Canadian Lumbala an upgrade over Smith at fullback spot

Joe Smith admits he'll be out gardening or engaging in some less violent activity again when the B.C. Lions host the Edmonton Eskimos on Friday.

By Canwest News ServiceAugust 7, 2008

Regardless of whether the Lions are merely adding some tight-end blocking for Logan, though, Buono is happy he listened to the scouting recommendation on Lumbala from his days as a Calgary high-school legend.

That recommendation came from Christie Buono, the coach's daughter, who became familiar with Lumbala through a mutual friend.

"He was a man among boys, according to my scouting report. He was a little pudgy before when he put on weight for the NFL. He's a man right now," Buono said.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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pennw
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jcalhoun wrote: While I'm not big on conspiracy theories, or speaking ill of Buono out of a sense of frustration, I sometimes feel that Wally deliberately makes questionable decisions to push the team. Punting from 15 yards deep in the endzone, for example: what purpose could this serve other than to expose poor play, and thus be justification for making change?

Cheers,

James
Do you mean to say he deliberately makes bad calls to put his team into a situation of adversity ? If that , or something along that line is what you are trying to say , I call bs on that . That would be about as unprofessional thing a coach could do , a deliberate sabotage of your own team would be grounds for firing , no matter who you were . If a coach would do something that bad he would certainly lose the respect of ALL his players . Sorry, but there is just no purpose to something like that.
Yes , that call for a deep endzone punt was about as dumb a decision as he could have made , but your explanation makes no sense of that at all . I would attribute that call to some sort of mental block or something , but not deliberate sabotage .
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Agreed, very unlikely scenario but the alternative is almost as bad. That is to say he is making bonehead choices purely on their own merit. Unfortunately, that does seem to be Wally style. Generally sound choices followed by almost incomprehensible head scratchers? How many times has it been said on this board that the Lions should have at least one or perhaps 2 more Cups save for the wondrously perplexing game plans and on field decisions by Wally Buono? Too many to count I should think. Now I am not a head hunter either but at this stage, the coaching is at least as suspect as the play on the field. It is true that we have a raft of new players in a variety of positions. The game planning should be taking this into account. We don't have that solid an Oline, for example. Why not roll away from pressure or throw more hitch screens or the like. A young Oline that is bound to get turnstyled somewhat dictates that you need quick hitters that are going to slow up the pass rush. I'm not an expert by any stretch but it seems pretty obvious that your game planning should try to minimize obvious weakness in your team. I'm not sure that we have seen that. It seems as though we are looking at the same strategies that we were using with a strong oline and DD at the helm. Neither of those things are true any longer. Game planning is clearly the responsibility of the coaches and right now, they are doing as poorly as the players on the field IMO.
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pennw
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Unfortunately boneheaded decisions have had something of a history with WB since his arrival here . That whole '04 GC seemed to have been lost to bad coaching . '06 GC game was only a close win too due to too conservative coaching . Most all of us seem to recall some bizarre goal line attempts by our coaches that got stuffed repeatedly dueto stupidity and lost us a few games . One other play not already mentioned that comes to my mind , in our last game when we had the ball at about our own 10 yard line. What did they do? Just what every fan as well as every member of the opposing defence knew they would do . Just like those overly predictable goal line attempts , the exact same running play they do 100% of the time in that situation and that never gets more then 2 yards because every member of the defence is keying in on the RB . Then the failed second and long , and punt one more time.
The bad thing about it all is that it seems beyond our coaching staffs' ability to correct this .
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