Lions Draft Needs?

[Rids]

So what direction do you think the Lions will go with their two first round picks? The Lions aren't afraid to use up a pick or two on future players that have NCAA time left so will they go the direction of Eric Fraser to pair up in the defensive backfield with Tad Crawford? Or a Bill McGrath?

[B.C.FAN]

Given the depth of talent shown at the evaluation camp, the Lions could get some good young players with the fifth and sixth overall picks. Defensive linemen are plentiful and are an area of need for the Lions.

Etienne Legare of Laval is a great prospect at defensive tackle, which is a big need on the Lions with the offseason loss of Tyrone Williams and Matt Kirk. He'd be an immediate upgrade on Kirk and could be a future starter if he's available at No. 5.

Stan Van Sichem, the University of Regina's alltime sack leader, has the same kind of athleticism as Ricky Foley and could play end (his position in university) or linebacker. He had the second highest vertical jump at the E-camp, and his time of 4.68 in the 40 is faster than any linebacker in recent years. He could have an immediate impact on special teams.

Osie Ukwuoma of Queen's is a less athletic defensive end with the size to play tackle at the next level but needs to work on his strength.

Receiver is also an area of need for the Lions, with the loss of Jason Clermont and with perennial backup Bret Anderson nearing retirement.

B.C. native Matt Carter of Acadia is fast and would be a great choice but he may not be available at No. 5.

Calgary native Matt Lambros has a year of U.S. college eligibility remaining at Liberty but is big and fast and would be a good choice as a future prospect at receiver.

[OV - 54:40]

Given the depth of talent shown at the evaluation camp, the Lions could get some good young players with the fifth and sixth overall picks. Defensive linemen are plentiful and are an area of need for the Lions.

Etienne Legare of Laval is a great prospect at defensive tackle, which is a big need on the Lions with the offseason loss of Tyrone Williams and Matt Kirk. He'd be an immediate upgrade on Kirk and could be a future starter if he's available at No. 5.

Stan Van Sichem, the University of Regina's alltime sack leader, has the same kind of athleticism as Ricky Foley and could play end (his position in university) or linebacker. He had the second highest vertical jump at the E-camp, and his time of 4.68 in the 40 is faster than any linebacker in recent years. He could have an immediate impact on special teams.

Osie Ukwuoma of Queen's is a less athletic defensive end with the size to play tackle at the next level but needs to work on his strength.

Receiver is also an area of need for the Lions, with the loss of Jason Clermont and with perennial backup Bret Anderson nearing retirement.

B.C. native Matt Carter of Acadia is fast and would be a great choice but he may not be available at No. 5.

Calgary native Matt Lambros has a year of U.S. college eligibility remaining at Liberty but is big and fast and would be a good choice as a future prospect at receiver.

I don't believe Lambros has any eligibilty left in US college ball, and if he did, I think he would have killed it by attending the CFL Combine (?).

Lions may have a need at DT, but Legare is maybe the only real very good DT prospect in this draft - he might be able to start right away with a real shot, but I bet he's gone by before 5th overall when the Lions pick; several very good DE prospects in this draft but the Lions already have Johnson, Foley, McKay-L and last year's pick Justin Shaw, at DE - can't see any need there what-so-ever.

A couple of DI US college ball starting DBs - Fraser & Hinds - might be tempting picks early - they do have a year left down south, but may be good picks for the future to give depth or challenge Crawford for the safety job.

Receiver is another area of need IMO, and Matt Carter would be an excellent receiver prospect to get it seems - might be able to come in and compete and maybe start or play right away (as Clermont did as a rookie) - he may be gone to either TO or Hamilton in the first 4 picks though. Lambros might be another good receiver pick and there are also several big-target slotback types (McHenry, Darcy Brown, or Zivkocic (from SMU)) who put up some pretty decent testing #s at the Combine.


RB is, IMO, a big need for the Lions and they may have a chance to address it by taking Jamall Lee - the combo of his CIS production and superb set of Combine testing #s make him maybe the best clear-cut #1 prospect in a CFL draft in some time IMO; however, this could be mitigated by a couple of factors - 1 -if he gets an NFL shot, and 2 if certain CFL decision makers don't see him as a worth a legit shot as a tailback because they like to pencil in or hand the job to imports - I bet the Lions don't draft him for either of the above reasons, even if he is still available by #5.


Wouldn't try to guess who/where the Lions look at in this draft, especially in the early rounds - probably have a better shot at picking the 6/49 numbers. I wouldn't be surprised to see the picks have nothing to do with apparent team "needs" though, with the usual "depth" or back-ups / special teamers thinking applied.

[B.C.FAN]

I don't believe Lambros has any eligibilty left in US college ball, and if he did, I think he would have killed it by attending the CFL Combine (?).

I think you're right about Lambros. I thought he had sat out a season because he didn't have any stats but it turns out he did see action in all four years at Liberty. His college career stats don't show much: only 2 or 3 catches over the four years, and none in his senior year.

[Tighthead]

Because draft picks at any position don't do much in the first year, I tend to lean to a best player available theory, but with exceptions. You don't always know what your needs will be by the time the player is expected to contribute as a starter. Positions like WR, OL and LB tend to churn on the roster fairly quickly. Players decline more rapidly than many fans expect, and quality depth is critical. However, at certain positions (FB, K), depth does you little good. However, if you are truly stacked with prospects at a certain position (the Lions may have enough at OL now), then passing on the BPA for the next best prospect makes sense.

There is also value in a player who can contribute right away, especially in a SMS system when the first contract is cheap. It's like the difference between a stock that pays a nice dividend, and one that is held solely for growth.

I also believe that if you regularly draft for need, you tend to reach for players, and that can impact your talent level over time. That being said, if there are two players who grade equally and one is at a position of need, you take that player.

Is the big DT from UWO who declared for the NFL draft not CFL draft eligible? Edit - Vaughn Martin. I guess he still has eligibility left. This article makes it sound like he is a big body, but still raw. However, run plugging DTs aren't always appreciated by more casual fans.

http://lowdownblog.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... nfl-bound/

I know Bill Parcells uses what he calls the "planet theory" - he will always look at a guy whose size and athleticism are off the charts, because there are only so many people on the planet with those measurables. He signed an American DT out of Concordia who was massive, but he didn't make the team.

[Hambone]

I don't believe Lambros has any eligibilty left in US college ball, and if he did, I think he would have killed it by attending the CFL Combine (?).

I think you're right about Lambros. I thought he had sat out a season because he didn't have any stats but it turns out he did see action in all four years at Liberty. His college career stats don't show much: only 2 or 3 catches over the four years, and none in his senior year.

Any NCAA/NAIA player attending the CFL Combine automatically forfeits their right to play U.S. college ball should they still have remaining eligibility. I believe the same would go if a player attended one of the many tryout camps CFL teams are holding across North America in the coming weeks. Going through Liberty's game sheets it appears that Lambros participated in all but 1 or 2 games in his senior season but never started a game and didn't catch a ball when he did see action. It seems a bit odd for a guy who received so little playing time as a senior to be considered any more than a late round "flyer".

As for Lion "needs" I believe they are varied but not necessarily immediately pressing. As usual I think they will use the draft for depth purposes in the short term with an eye to future starters. So much is yet to happen that will play a big part in how they deploy their selections. OV suggests RB to be an immediate need. I think that is only a temporary need with the "temporary" being at worst until Labour Day; and possibly a non-need should Logan be released after mini-camp. I really think Stefan Logan remains a longest of shots to stick with the Steelers. At worst he'll be back around Labour Day IF he survives to the final NFL cuts. Depending on who Pittsburgh drafts, any other potential RB/KR FA signings and how he shows in their Mini-Camp in early May he could well be back in BC in time for training camp. As he received no signing bonus Pittsburgh has no money invested in him. The unknown here is that NFL Mini-Camps take place just after the CFL Draft. They could draft Lee and week later have Logan back in the fold.

There will be a few things yet to unfold that will come into play on draft day. Any one of them or a combination will play a part in how BC drafts. If I was to place a higher priority on any position over another I'd put SB/WR at the top of Wally's shopping list. Where BC was once the deepest team in the league in terms of NI receiving talent with Clermont, Thelwell, Jackson and the intriguing Josh Boden they are now quite thin. Matt Carter I believe is at the top of their shopping list. After that my gut feel is LB, DT and OL would be the next areas they would look. OL could move up the priority list if last year's #1 selection Justin Sorensen goes in the NFL Draft the week before or lands an undrafted FA contract. If he isn't property of an NFL team by CFL Draft day it would seem he could soon be wearing orange which lessens any urgency to take an OL with the #5 or #6 pick.

Again several things will happen prior to the Lions pick at #5 that can sway their selection:
1) Tryout camps - BC has done well with these camps in recent years. The likes of Ryan Phillips, Cam Wake, Tony Simmons and Buck Pierce are products from them. Depending on who they uncover or maybe what needs they fail to uncover could have bearing on who or what positions they priorize on draft day.
2) NFL Draft - it wasn't very long ago that the CFL held their draft prior to the NFL Draft making it a crapshoot to gauge NFL interest on a player. If the player was eligible in the same year you at least had the benefit of knowing how he played in his senior season but still couldn't predict if he'd be drafted or signed as an undrafted player by an NFL team. At least now the NFL Draft goes a week prior to the CFL Draft. Any player who isn't drafted or signed by CFL Draft day will be a pretty good bet to come north immediately. With the exception of the player who has remaining eligibility CFL teams deal with a lot more "known" factors when making draft decisions than they did 3 or 4 short years ago.
3) CFL Draft - the CFL Draft is an unusual duck compared to other sports. With only 8 teams and technically 26 positons counting kicking disciplines (that probably weeds down to closer to 10-12 distinct position "groups") there usually are good odds if you have multiple needs you'll get a good player with your next pick unless you traded your top picks away. Thus I think there is less urgency to draft by position. If you need an OL and you have the best available when your turn comes up ranked say 3rd on your list it makes no sense reaching down for him if you feel he or somebody awful damned close to him will be available for your next pick. BC has #5 & #6. Once they've made their #6 choice only 6 more players will go before they make their next choice. For BC while they draft 5th there are only 2 teams drafting ahead of them. I don't know if that makes it easier or tougher to predict who will still be on the board. With Hamilton and Toronto each having 2 picks in the top 4 both could use 1 for a sure thing and another to gamble a bit. Regardless I think whoever the Lions pick will largely be dictated by who the Argos and Ti-Cats don't pick. Reading into the Duane Forde articles it seems this draft has some good talent spread through all positions with no position being "deeper" than any other. Buono will have his top 6 list. Where last year it might've had 3 OL it wouldn't surprise me if there are 6 different positions listed this year all of which could help fill depth needs. If BC does covet somebody in particular they could try to trade up and have the draft assets to do so. I would think offering their #5 and #13 to move up would be attractive to either Hamilton or Toronto who would be able to add another solid pick at the expense of moving down only a couple of places.

In a nutshell the Lions' needs are a little of this and a little of that. Obstensibly Obie and Rita will be making Buono's picks as who they don't draft will dictate who BC does draft.

[Tighthead]

Hambone, great post.

Just to add to what you said, the conventional wisdom (always dangerous) is that Sorenson won't get much interest even as a OFA in the NFL. After seeing what Calgary did last year with rookies, I would like to see the Lions take a less cautious approach with him in his rookie season.

[OV - 54:40]

This may be considered a weak draft year by some commentators (and I have a lot of respect for Duane Forde - he's about the sharpest working in the Canadian football coverage media IMO; but I don't take his word as gospel), it may have more talent that originally surmised by some, and some good CFL Combine test results (where CFL scouting may defer to more than it should in lieu of enough watching actual football players play in game situations) may have helped some players get noticed. I think it might be a pretty shallow year at O-Line - the position group where CFL teams employ the most NIs on average; and at the 2nd most NI featured large position group - receiver - it might only be an average to not so deep crop (with Carter being a real blue-chipper maybe - he was a consistent productive receiver in CIS ball plus had an excellent overall set of Combine #s; Lambros had some good numbers too, but I'd agree with Hambone in being a bit suspicious of a guy who barely played in US college ball, BUT, IMO some pro scouts are often over-enamored with football testing measureables as opposed to demanding good on field play-making results to go with them).

Hambone, as far as no one position being "deeper" than other this year, I would have to disagree , big-time, because seems to me it is an outstanding year for defensive end products - a large number of former all CIS or conference all-star / leading play-making DEs, plus a couple of guys with some US college ball experience, and several of these guys posted at least some impressive #s at the recent CFL Combine. However, DE is a more specific position - only 2 on the field (not many can just be moved around elsewhere on the defence, as opposed to O-Line as a generic group where guys might be able to play any of the 5 spots), so DE is not as big a demand position - especially for NIs in the current CFL "thinking".

And as far as BC's need at RB - last year they had a proven 1000 yd. guy in Smith at TC and still managed to come up with a great young back in Logan (plus swapped Smith for another proven back in Chuck Bob); I wouldn't be totally counting on Logan being a guarantee to return and regardless the Lions have basically zip-o in terms of proven, experienced RBs heading into TC (though guys like Smart or Green, Lumballa, Bwenge are available, they've never been game in game out starting CFL RBs) - I'd be a bit worried heading into a TC with no veteran starter and consider the position a big area of need for lots of competition. Jamall Lee - if available in the draft and if he doesn't get any NFL interest - would seem to me to be a total obvious, no-brainer pick - in terms of need PLUS however you want to spin draft thinking - best player (2 time 1st team all-Canadian and rushing champ in colllege ball) OR best "athlete" (one of the all-time best set of CFL Combine testing #s). Drafting Lee to have him line-up behind Lumballa, Green or Bwenge as little used fullback/utility back types would make pretty well zero sense IMO; drafting him and giving him a real shot at the vacacnt tailback position in real TC competition might make some sense.

[Rids]

Interesting replies from those much closer to the fire than I am.

My initial mock draft has the Lions taking Matt Morencie at #5 and Jamall Lee at #6. Now that was prior to the E-Camp (with Lee's 4.39) and with Zac Carlson getting his status. The chances of things changing between now and the draft are probably 100% in this league and will re-evaluate things once we hit April. If more talk of Jamall Lee exploring the options of attending NFL camps comes up then I do believe that he will be available at #5/6.

Any talk from BC about them trading down with one of those picks?

Eric Fraser would be an interesting story as I believe he's a lower mainland product. Speedy DB that has switched to safety.

[Lions4ever]

Interesting replies from those much closer to the fire than I am.

My initial mock draft has the Lions taking Matt Morencie at #5 and Jamall Lee at #6. Now that was prior to the E-Camp (with Lee's 4.39) and with Zac Carlson getting his status. The chances of things changing between now and the draft are probably 100% in this league and will re-evaluate things once we hit April. If more talk of Jamall Lee exploring the options of attending NFL camps comes up then I do believe that he will be available at #5/6.

Any talk from BC about them trading down with one of those picks?

Eric Fraser would be an interesting story as I believe he's a lower mainland product. Speedy DB that has switched to safety.

As a close friend of the Frasers (yes, he's a Lower Mainlander, but he's originally from Duncan) obviously I would love to see him land in a Lions uni. With the Lions acquisition of the #4 pick, that prospect may have improved. The Lions do have needs elsewhere, but if there's one thing we've learned about WB, he loves to stock up on DBs. If WB talks to coaches in the MAC he will find out that those coaches have a tremendous amount of respect for Eric. Even though CMU has a reputation for a porous secondary, it's not in Eric's direction that opponents are throwing.

[Rids]

With the new developments today does this change the Lions strategy? Do they continue moving up and make a deal with the Tiger Cats with the #5 & 6 for the #3?

For the record I had Eric Fraser as my #4 pick by the Argos originally.

[B.C.FAN]

With the new developments today does this change the Lions strategy? Do they continue moving up and make a deal with the Tiger Cats with the #5 & 6 for the #3?

For the record I had Eric Fraser as my #4 pick by the Argos originally.

I'd love to see the Lions keep all three first-round picks but I wouldn't be surprised to see them flip one or more of them to Saskatchewan for depth at NI receiver. Keeping all three picks increases the likelihood of picking up Matt Carter as well as a solid prospect at DE/LB and DB.

[beachboy]

Well, whatever happens, I think we must get the best receiver we possibly can. Our receiving core is depleted to some extent and after Paris Jackson do we have any Canadian with potential to improve ??? So i think a receiver is the key...

[Lions4ever]

Our receiving core .

You mean "receiving corps" perhaps?

[Lions4ever]

Our receiving core

You mean "receiving corps" perhaps? I'm sure we'll draft a receiver.

Sorry 'bout the double post fail!