48 Hours Later, Bishop on Waivers

[pennw]

If it meant keeping Wake, I think so. You can find a serviceable backup far more easily than a Cameron Wake. A player like him comes along once in a generation.

And who knows maybe Champion starts coming into his own next season . But still , JJ isn't costing the Lions a huge salary though. Not like some other teams QB's , nor is Pierce . We already made this move(salary dump) when DD was released ,he was the one with the big salary . Now if JJ wanted to move to a team that would look at him as a starter , then that would be a different thing . But if not why not just keep him? What he brings for what is salary is , he's worth keeping . I don't think cutting him will keep Wake here , because the next capable QB is going to cost too .

[Vern Halen]

I dont blame the defense players for being pissed, but maybe they shouldnt be so quick to air it.

When you really think about it, what difference does the timeing really make? Might as well get it down now and let all parties move on. If I am the player being cut, I wouldnt feel any better if it happened a month from now, but now, in about a month, bishop will have had time to deal with it already and be in a better space and place than if he just got told about it then.

All in all, I support this move completely.

Do you kick someone when they are down? The guy plays a terrible game, has fans bad mouthing him right left and centre and then your team fires you and then your former teammates start dissing you before the dust has even settled in your locker. That is a bit much for anybody even if it already decided. You can't take back the game or stop the fans from doing their thing but maybe you might just show a little restraint and let the pain of it all lessen a little bit before you hit em again with the firing and as far as teammates go, shame.

It wasn't just one game that he was terrible in - there were quite a few down the stretch that we counted as wins that were still terrible MB performances. Granted - the pain is raw for Bishop, but it's also really raw for the rest of the offence, the coaching staff, the D, special teams and the fans. There was speculation that Durant was a cancer in the locker room when Bishop was brought in, but it's becoming apparent that it may have been the act of bringing in MB that caused some harsh feelings - some saw MB's arrival the reason for Crandell's departure (which it was) and Marcus was well liked in the city and the locker room from all reports.

But the players all bucked up and zipped their lips for the good of the team. Now that MB is gone, the embargo has been lifted - players are finally free to let months of bottled up emotion out. From someone who isn't as close to the team, this reaction may seem puzzling, but to Rider faithful, it's somewhat expected. Lloyd isn't going to badmouth Tillman and Miller either, who he will be sitting down with during the off-season to try and do a new deal as Lloyd is a FA IIRC.

The "Michael Bishop Experiment" was the only really bad move that Tillman has made in my opinion. His (Bishop's) arrival did some damage behind the scenes as well - and now we're seeing some of that damage come out as dirty laundry.

[TheLionKing]

Wally is always capable of a surprising move.

He might decide that 2 QBs for $200,000 each is too much for the budget. And he does think highly of Zac Champion. On the other hand, I would say having Buck and Jarious both for $400,000 is a bargain at CFL QB rates.

Buck and Jarious are a terrific combination. And together, they tend to each improve their games as time goes by. They support each other, but they also give each other that competition that encourages each of them to improve.

About Michael Bishop, Kerry Joseph and Marcus Crandell: this is one of the few personnel situations where it seems Tillman did not really have a workable plan. I would not be all that shocked if he brought KJ back at a much reduced salary. That would be an example of extreme, long-term, hard core bargaining at a distance.

Just throwing this out there...

If trading JJ means you have enough cap room to keep Wake, and can infuse some youth into <secondary, linebacker, non import receiver, offensive line, take your pick> would you do it?

In a heartbeat

[WestCoastJoe]

Wally is always capable of a surprising move.

He might decide that 2 QBs for $200,000 each is too much for the budget. And he does think highly of Zac Champion. On the other hand, I would say having Buck and Jarious both for $400,000 is a bargain at CFL QB rates.

Buck and Jarious are a terrific combination. And together, they tend to each improve their games as time goes by. They support each other, but they also give each other that competition that encourages each of them to improve.

About Michael Bishop, Kerry Joseph and Marcus Crandell: this is one of the few personnel situations where it seems Tillman did not really have a workable plan. I would not be all that shocked if he brought KJ back at a much reduced salary. That would be an example of extreme, long-term, hard core bargaining at a distance.

Just throwing this out there...

If trading JJ means you have enough cap room to keep Wake, and can infuse some youth into <secondary, linebacker, non import receiver, offensive line, take your pick> would you do it?

We need JJ. In this league, you need to 2 QBs ready-to-go. Buck still has health issues and vulnerability. Zac is green as grass. JJ is still improving, and is more than capable right now. If he could have faster starts, higher completion percentage, and better touch on short throws, he would be ideal. He has leadership, character, physical strength, intelligence, all the intangibles. And he has shown possibilities, even in those areas he needs to improve upon.

I think Wally could pony up perhaps $200,000 for Cam Wake, even without trading away a QB. But $200,000 is not going to keep Cam Wake, who could make 2, 3, 4 times or more than that in the NFL. I doubt even $400,000 offered to Cam Wake right now would get his name on a new contract. It's wishful thinking on all of our parts. Cam is NFL bound. We have to accept that. IMO his talent and energy will keep him there for an extended stay as well. For Cam, as good a guy as he is, it is a feel-good story. I wish him all the good.

In regard to infusing youth, etc.: that has always been one of Wally's strengths, and I fully expect it will continue. The cupboard is far from bare with the Lions.

secondary, linebacker, non import receiver, offensive line - examples of depth players developing with the Lions:

DB - B.J. Tucker, Tad Crawford, Brady Browne, Dennis Brown.

LB - Terna Nande, Jason Arakgi, Josh Bean, Jamall Johnson (still hitting his stride, IMO potential All-Star), Jason Pottinger (still developing and productive). Now that we have Nande, IMO our depth at LB is good.

non-import receiver - the only way to acquire these is through drafting. Wally drafts one every year, it seems. It did not pan out with Adam Nicolson, but Wally's draft record here in B.C. is fantastic overall. IMO we are in good shape at non-import receiver (JC82, PJ, Wilson, Anderson, Hetherington). I would make this the top priority for next year's draft however.

O Line - IMO we are already deep at this position: Bates, Reid, Haji, then Valli, Plante, Haemeister, Buydens (at college), Stevenson coming next year from this year's draft.

[Sir Purrcival]

I dont blame the defense players for being pissed, but maybe they shouldnt be so quick to air it.

When you really think about it, what difference does the timeing really make? Might as well get it down now and let all parties move on. If I am the player being cut, I wouldnt feel any better if it happened a month from now, but now, in about a month, bishop will have had time to deal with it already and be in a better space and place than if he just got told about it then.

All in all, I support this move completely.

Do you kick someone when they are down? The guy plays a terrible game, has fans bad mouthing him right left and centre and then your team fires you and then your former teammates start dissing you before the dust has even settled in your locker. That is a bit much for anybody even if it already decided. You can't take back the game or stop the fans from doing their thing but maybe you might just show a little restraint and let the pain of it all lessen a little bit before you hit em again with the firing and as far as teammates go, shame.

It wasn't just one game that he was terrible in - there were quite a few down the stretch that we counted as wins that were still terrible MB performances. Granted - the pain is raw for Bishop, but it's also really raw for the rest of the offence, the coaching staff, the D, special teams and the fans. There was speculation that Durant was a cancer in the locker room when Bishop was brought in, but it's becoming apparent that it may have been the act of bringing in MB that caused some harsh feelings - some saw MB's arrival the reason for Crandell's departure (which it was) and Marcus was well liked in the city and the locker room from all reports.

But the players all bucked up and zipped their lips for the good of the team. Now that MB is gone, the embargo has been lifted - players are finally free to let months of bottled up emotion out. From someone who isn't as close to the team, this reaction may seem puzzling, but to Rider faithful, it's somewhat expected. Lloyd isn't going to badmouth Tillman and Miller either, who he will be sitting down with during the off-season to try and do a new deal as Lloyd is a FA IIRC.

The "Michael Bishop Experiment" was the only really bad move that Tillman has made in my opinion. His (Bishop's) arrival did some damage behind the scenes as well - and now we're seeing some of that damage come out as dirty laundry.

Yes but you can't hang all the things that went wrong on Bishop. The team brought him in and if he was a problem behind the scenes, whose fault is that? If players are going to run him down, then they best have the stones to share the blame. If not they should shut up. I think you said it best when you say things are a bit Raw. This is a business and should be conducted like a business. This just doesn't seem very business like either from the organization or the player in question. What is to be gained by running Bishop down? Maybe everybody is dissappointed, I would be too but maybe it is time to set some new expectations. This just strikes me at the same level as what happened to Fred Perry after he was traded and that didn't seem very professional either. I doubt that I'm the only one who might feel that way. Anyways, whats done is done and it can't be changed so I guess I will move on.

[DanoT]

Even a few days after a tough loss disappointment and emotion still run high and players often say things that they later regret. The timing of Bishop's release and some of the comments around it fall under this category. Tilman should have waited a few weeks or few more days at the very least and it would have been less of a Bishop is a scapegoat thing and a lot more business like.

[Power-O-O-O-O]

O Line - IMO we are already deep at this position: Bates, Reid, Haji, then Valli, Plante, Haemeister, Buydens (at college), Stevenson coming next year from this year's draft.

I thought that Hameister-Ries blew out his knee last offseason and retired (but stayed with the team to rehab the injusry)? Did that change?
I think you mean Sorensen (not Stevenson) is the OL from the 2008 draft that could be in traning camp next year.
Also, do the Lions retain the rights to Buydens even though they released him and sent him back to college ball?

[Rammer]

O Line - IMO we are already deep at this position: Bates, Reid, Haji, then Valli, Plante, Haemeister, Buydens (at college), Stevenson coming next year from this year's draft.

I thought that Hameister-Ries blew out his knee last offseason and retired (but stayed with the team to rehab the injusry)? Did that change?
I think you mean Sorensen (not Stevenson) is the OL from the 2008 draft that could be in traning camp next year.
Also, do the Lions retain the rights to Buydens even though they released him and sent him back to college ball?

Hameister-Ries has been practicing with the Lions and is on their roster. Yes Sorensen is the draft player that should/could be with the Lions for 09 TC.

[TheLionKing]

Even a few days after a tough loss disappointment and emotion still run high and players often say things that they later regret. The timing of Bishop's release and some of the comments around it fall under this category. Tilman should have waited a few weeks or few more days at the very least and it would have been less of a Bishop is a scapegoat thing and a lot more business like.

[Bleddyn]

Even a few days after a tough loss disappointment and emotion still run high and players often say things that they later regret. The timing of Bishop's release and some of the comments around it fall under this category. Tilman should have waited a few weeks or few more days at the very least and it would have been less of a Bishop is a scapegoat thing and a lot more business like.

Not sure I really agree. Releasing him is Tillman's decision. I don't think it has do do anything with emotion unless it is fear (of the fans). As Rammer has already pointed out with irrefutable logic, He was considered the go-to-guy, even in a tight situation 15 passes ago..... 15 passes. Tillman put up Bishop as a patsy, period.

As for the teammate comments, Vern's explanation of how it may have been perceived in Regina, and any excuse of heat of the moment, emotion still running high etc., is simply not good enough. There is only one kind of player that would dis a teammate before his locker door has stopped rattling, a scumbag. The appropriate time would be after he has signed elsewhere.

[Vern Halen]

Even a few days after a tough loss disappointment and emotion still run high and players often say things that they later regret. The timing of Bishop's release and some of the comments around it fall under this category. Tilman should have waited a few weeks or few more days at the very least and it would have been less of a Bishop is a scapegoat thing and a lot more business like.

Not sure I really agree. Releasing him is Tillman's decision. I don't think it has do do anything with emotion unless it is fear (of the fans). As Rammer has already pointed out with irrefutable logic, He was considered the go-to-guy, even in a tight situation 15 passes ago..... 15 passes. Tillman put up Bishop as a patsy, period.

As for the teammate comments, Vern's explanation of how it may have been perceived in Regina, and any excuse of heat of the moment, emotion still running high etc., is simply not good enough. There is only one kind of player that would dis a teammate before his locker door has stopped rattling, a scumbag. The appropriate time would be after he has signed elsewhere.

What if there will be no appropriate time? I mean, where's he gonna land?

[DanoT]

Bishop is a career backup like Jason Maas. He needs to accept that role and move on.

[B.C.FAN]

DB - B.J. Tucker, Tad Crawford, Brady Browne, Dennis Brown.

LB - Terna Nande, Jason Arakgi, Josh Bean, Jamall Johnson (still hitting his stride, IMO potential All-Star), Jason Pottinger (still developing and productive). Now that we have Nande, IMO our depth at LB is good.

I thought the Lions were trying to develop Arakgi as a safety. I know he played linebacker at McMaster and is a great tackler, as we've seen on special teams this year. I don't know how his speed or cover ability matches up with Crawford's but I'd like to see him get some reps somewhere on defence next year.

[Bleddyn]

What if there will be no appropriate time? I mean, where's he gonna land?

TSN :lol:

But seriously, I guess it all comes down to perception of right and wrong on this point. I do think time, or change of situation (signing for a new team) makes a difference. Obviously others won't agree with me. I played alot of sports, not at the CFL level of course, but that display goes against every sporting "ethic" I was raised to believe.