Well Jarious or Buck
Moderator: Team Captains
-
DanoT
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 4445
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
- Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter
IMO the biggest edge for Buck is that he is 4 years younger than JJ. If you factor in the prospect of an Ottawa team entry draft 3 or 4 years from now when the teams will get to protect only one QB, then that QB for the Lions should be Buck. So get him starting now.
-
Toppy Vann
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 10104
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ory/Sports
Matthew Sekeres writes about the Lion QB situation in the Globe and Mail. Some excerpts as it is not okay to do more than that:
FOOTBALL: CFL: ANALYSIS
Pierce in the driver's seat
But Jackson - and yet another QB controversy - is lurking should the Lions' newly anointed starter falter
MATTHEW SEKERES
June 24, 2008
VANCOUVER -- B.C. Lions general manager and head coach Wally Buono named Buck Pierce as his starting quarterback yesterday for the CFL team's regular-season opener at Calgary on Thursday.
As Buono is quick to note, it matters less who starts the season than who ends it - and that question is still very open-ended, with former starter Jarious Jackson lurking on the bench.
But for the sake of Lions fans, the best-case scenario is that Pierce seizes control of the job and turns this quagmire into the traditional arrangement of a clear-cut starter and a clear-cut backup, and not a week-to-week question of who will be under centre.
Buono may think otherwise, but the notion that your quarterbacks can be of equal standing is outdated and hasn't worked in 20 years..........................................
But there is a difference between a No. 1 and a No. 2 arrangement, and a No. 1A and No. 1B method. Over the past two decades, there is no question which situation is more successful.
The list of Grey Cup-winning quarterbacks since the mid-1980s reads like a Hall of Fame roll call.
In the 1980s, there was a string of Grey Cups won by 1A and 1B quarterbacks. Matt Dunigan and Allen did the trick for the Edmonton Eskimos in 1987, and Condredge Holloway and Joe Barnes led Toronto to 1983 title.
Since then, you can find examples of firemen coming off the bench and helping teams win Grey Cups, and at least one example of a 1A-1B duo coming close.
Jason Maas bailed out starter Ricky Ray and the Eskimos in the 2005 playoffs as the Esks won the Grey Cup, and Danny McManus was instrumental in the Lions' 1994 championship in relief of starter Kent Austin.
In 2004, Buono picked Dickenson over Casey Printers for the Grey Cup game against the Argos. We all know how that turned out.
Judging from Buono's remarks at camp, he hasn't necessarily learned from recent history.
He compared the job of a backup quarterback to that of the fourth linebacker, which is like comparing apples to eggs. There is, of course, a massive difference when a quarterback gets pulled for ineffectiveness than when a linebacker is yanked. Inherently, quarterbacks are leaders, the men charged with settling down emotions in the huddle, aligning teammates in the correct formation, making the proper reads and executing the play. A linebacker has far less control of a game on a snap-by-snap basis.
Matthew Sekeres writes about the Lion QB situation in the Globe and Mail. Some excerpts as it is not okay to do more than that:
FOOTBALL: CFL: ANALYSIS
Pierce in the driver's seat
But Jackson - and yet another QB controversy - is lurking should the Lions' newly anointed starter falter
MATTHEW SEKERES
June 24, 2008
VANCOUVER -- B.C. Lions general manager and head coach Wally Buono named Buck Pierce as his starting quarterback yesterday for the CFL team's regular-season opener at Calgary on Thursday.
As Buono is quick to note, it matters less who starts the season than who ends it - and that question is still very open-ended, with former starter Jarious Jackson lurking on the bench.
But for the sake of Lions fans, the best-case scenario is that Pierce seizes control of the job and turns this quagmire into the traditional arrangement of a clear-cut starter and a clear-cut backup, and not a week-to-week question of who will be under centre.
Buono may think otherwise, but the notion that your quarterbacks can be of equal standing is outdated and hasn't worked in 20 years..........................................
But there is a difference between a No. 1 and a No. 2 arrangement, and a No. 1A and No. 1B method. Over the past two decades, there is no question which situation is more successful.
The list of Grey Cup-winning quarterbacks since the mid-1980s reads like a Hall of Fame roll call.
In the 1980s, there was a string of Grey Cups won by 1A and 1B quarterbacks. Matt Dunigan and Allen did the trick for the Edmonton Eskimos in 1987, and Condredge Holloway and Joe Barnes led Toronto to 1983 title.
Since then, you can find examples of firemen coming off the bench and helping teams win Grey Cups, and at least one example of a 1A-1B duo coming close.
Jason Maas bailed out starter Ricky Ray and the Eskimos in the 2005 playoffs as the Esks won the Grey Cup, and Danny McManus was instrumental in the Lions' 1994 championship in relief of starter Kent Austin.
In 2004, Buono picked Dickenson over Casey Printers for the Grey Cup game against the Argos. We all know how that turned out.
Judging from Buono's remarks at camp, he hasn't necessarily learned from recent history.
He compared the job of a backup quarterback to that of the fourth linebacker, which is like comparing apples to eggs. There is, of course, a massive difference when a quarterback gets pulled for ineffectiveness than when a linebacker is yanked. Inherently, quarterbacks are leaders, the men charged with settling down emotions in the huddle, aligning teammates in the correct formation, making the proper reads and executing the play. A linebacker has far less control of a game on a snap-by-snap basis.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
-
Belize City Lion
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 3604
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:39 pm
- Location: Belize City, Belize
I tend to agree that a #1 - #2 situation is better all around than a 1a - 1b scenario. But what is Wally supposed to do? Come out and tell JJ that he is second rate (when JJ has performed equal to BP?). The reality is that at this point both QBs are basically equally qualified to be the starter. Is Wally supposed to trade one of them away for a lesser QB so the guy on bench will agree that deserves to be riding the pine? I can't see how anyone would not want to be in the Lions position, having 2 genuine #1 QBs on the roster. It would be great if one of them had a few years of being #1 in order to have an established pecking order, but we don't. So at the end of the day the best thing is to go with a 1a, 1b situation and hope it sorts itself out during the season.
We will have to watch this Sekeres guy. He is Ted Roger's attack dog. First he was in Ottawa to skewer to Renegades with a ongoing series of negative and cutting articles, dragging the CFL through the mud. Mission accomplished there. Now he's been sent to BC to undermine the Lions for Rogers Globe & Mail. Now we learn that Buono is SO stupid, is behind the times and doesn't know how to handle QB's! Take a hike, Skewers! 
Rogers Globe and Mail? Do tell.No Ka Oi wrote:We will have to watch this Sekeres guy. He is Ted Roger's attack dog. First he was in Ottawa to skewer to Renegades with a ongoing series of negative and cutting articles, dragging the CFL through the mud. Mission accomplished there. Now he's been sent to BC to undermine the Lions for Rogers Globe & Mail. Now we learn that Buono is SO stupid, is behind the times and doesn't know how to handle QB's! Take a hike, Skewers!
And how could anyone write anything bad about the Renegades regime?
You have just proven how little you know of the man, and the sports he covers. There was no greater Renegades fan than Matt Sekeres. At least, that was the case at a Renegade Nation dinner that I attended last Sunday evening.No Ka Oi wrote:We will have to watch this Sekeres guy. He is Ted Roger's attack dog. First he was in Ottawa to skewer to Renegades with a ongoing series of negative and cutting articles, dragging the CFL through the mud. Mission accomplished there. Now he's been sent to BC to undermine the Lions for Rogers Globe & Mail. Now we learn that Buono is SO stupid, is behind the times and doesn't know how to handle QB's! Take a hike, Skewers!
Does he like Wally? No, but he isn't a beat writer for the Lions, that isn't his function here; Ullrich and Beamish are. He covers sports in general on the Coast, from the Olympic Trials here in Victoria, to the Canucks and Lions, even the Whitecaps.
His job is to help sell newspapers; it isn't to schill for the Ottawa Rough Riders or the Vancouver Canucks. So he doesn't.
-
Toppy Vann
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 10104
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm
LOL .. Rogers doesn't own the Globe and Mail. In fact they and he have never owned the paper. It is CTV Globemedia formerly Bell Globe Media which is a competitor of Rogers. The fact this reporter has written about the BC Lions is because they try and sell their papers across major cities in Canada with Vancouver being one of them.No Ka Oi wrote:We will have to watch this Sekeres guy. He is Ted Roger's attack dog. First he was in Ottawa to skewer to Renegades with a ongoing series of negative and cutting articles, dragging the CFL through the mud. Mission accomplished there. Now he's been sent to BC to undermine the Lions for Rogers Globe & Mail. Now we learn that Buono is SO stupid, is behind the times and doesn't know how to handle QB's! Take a hike, Skewers!
Ottawa Renegades had problems but none of them were this particular reporter. To suggest that he is out to "undermine the Lions for Rogers Globe & Mail" is as absurd as is your statement about the ownership of the paper. Fans want more CFL coverage not less and this article is just one story and one person's point of view on QB tandems in Canada and you like many others can choose to disagree with it but to suggest he is out to undermine the Lions for Ted Rogers is laughable.
I do think that the Lions want to give Buck this opportunity to be the number one guy and clear team leader like the article suggests is the way to go, however, the HC has played all his QBs when he has the talent to play them and this won't change any time soon. I think that Buck will get the nod as number one as long as he and this team are doing the job they need to win. Having said that, this coach knows that he has a very solid, capable guy in Jarius Jackson who will play and be a key part of the season's success.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
I think it was a creative spin on what might be considered an overused phrase: "comparing apples to oranges"; by using the word eggs, he's reminding us that apples and oranges are at least both fruit, so it wouldn't do enough justice to the contrast he's trying to present. So he chose something else, even more different from apples, to underscore the dissimilarity.ziggy wrote:Sekeres might know sports, but not traditional sayings. Comparing apples to eggs?? Used to be oranges, or did I miss his wit?
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
Pure crap. If I want coaching tips, I'll go to Wally Buono before I go to Matthew Sekeres.Buono may think otherwise, but the notion that your quarterbacks can be of equal standing is outdated and hasn't worked in 20 years.
Sekeres notes the tandem of Ray and Maas was vital to Edmonton's 2005 Grey Cup triumph, but he fails to note that Wally Buono's last two Grey Cup victories in 2001 and 2006 were achieved with two quarterbacks sharing the season's workload. The Lions have also managed to finish first for four straight years under Buono with not two, but three quarterbacks sharing starts during the season and playoffs, often out of necessity.
The most egalitarian sharing of QB duties came in the 2006 B.C. victory, when Dave Dickenson and Buck Pierce each had their own offensive packages and even alternated series for part of the game. Dickenson started, but Pierce was on the field for all 25 B.C. points, including Ian Smart's touchdown.
The worst B.C. season in Buono's tenure was 2003 when the Lions rode Dickenson alone until he got hurt before the crossover playoff game in Toronto, leaving the team in the hands of an unprepared Spergon Wynn.
In the modern CFL, it is becoming harder for a team to make it to the Grey Cup and win it with only one proven quarterback. Saskatchewan did it last year. Winnipeg tried and came up a game short.
Buono indicated in training camp that he hoped one QB would establish himself as a clear No. 1 during preseason. That didn't happen, and the Lions might be better off as a result. The coaches, players and fans can have confidence that either QB can step in and perform whenever called upon. An 18-game season is challenging mentally and physically. I expect both QBs to get a lot of work. I hope to see them hoist the Cup together in November.
B.C.FAN wrote:Pure crap. If I want coaching tips, I'll go to Wally Buono before I go to Matthew Sekeres.Buono may think otherwise, but the notion that your quarterbacks can be of equal standing is outdated and hasn't worked in 20 years.
Sekeres notes the tandem of Ray and Maas was vital to Edmonton's 2005 Grey Cup triumph, but he fails to note that Wally Buono's last two Grey Cup victories in 2001 and 2006 were achieved with two quarterbacks sharing the season's workload. The Lions have also managed to finish first for four straight years under Buono with not two, but three quarterbacks sharing starts during the season and playoffs, often out of necessity.
The most egalitarian sharing of QB duties came in the 2006 B.C. victory, when Dave Dickenson and Buck Pierce each had their own offensive packages and even alternated series for part of the game. Dickenson started, but Pierce was on the field for all 25 B.C. points, including Ian Smart's touchdown.
The worst B.C. season in Buono's tenure was 2003 when the Lions rode Dickenson alone until he got hurt before the crossover playoff game in Toronto, leaving the team in the hands of an unprepared Spergon Wynn.
In the modern CFL, it is becoming harder for a team to make it to the Grey Cup and win it with only one proven quarterback. Saskatchewan did it last year. Winnipeg tried and came up a game short.
Buono indicated in training camp that he hoped one QB would establish himself as a clear No. 1 during preseason. That didn't happen, and the Lions might be better off as a result. The coaches, players and fans can have confidence that either QB can step in and perform whenever called upon. An 18-game season is challenging mentally and physically. I expect both QBs to get a lot of work. I hope to see them hoist the Cup together in November.
Great post B.C. Fan!!!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
[quote="Blitz"][quote="Lions4ever"][quote="Blitz"]
1. Buck has more rust on him than Jackson, based upon last season and it would be better confidence wise, to ease him back in than place the pressure on him right away.
2. As Shi Zi Mi, wisely noted, Champion needs to learn the CFL game and needs time. It's safer to start Jackson and have Buck come in, in terms of injury, than taking the bigger risk (based upon his injury record) of starting Pierce and having Champion only one injury away from being the backup.
3. If Jackson doesn't play up to expectation Buck can become our starter as the season progresses
and the time will allow Buck to get in more practice and game reps, to fully heal and strengthen his shoulder even more, and gain even more confidence. If Jackson becomes the starter Buck still needs game reps from the start of the season on.
*********************************************************************************************
My reasons for wanting Jarious to begin the season as our starter prior to Thursday's game hold true even more now. I believe, we should start Jackson at home against Calgary and give Buck's shoulder more time (even if the injury isn't serious..which we don't know how serious at this point)
I was hopeful that my worry about Buck getting injured before his shoulder was fully strengthened was wrong... and Buck hurting it in the first half of our first regular season game is very disappointing! Guess we'll find out how sore it is next week!
1. Buck has more rust on him than Jackson, based upon last season and it would be better confidence wise, to ease him back in than place the pressure on him right away.
2. As Shi Zi Mi, wisely noted, Champion needs to learn the CFL game and needs time. It's safer to start Jackson and have Buck come in, in terms of injury, than taking the bigger risk (based upon his injury record) of starting Pierce and having Champion only one injury away from being the backup.
3. If Jackson doesn't play up to expectation Buck can become our starter as the season progresses
and the time will allow Buck to get in more practice and game reps, to fully heal and strengthen his shoulder even more, and gain even more confidence. If Jackson becomes the starter Buck still needs game reps from the start of the season on.
*********************************************************************************************
My reasons for wanting Jarious to begin the season as our starter prior to Thursday's game hold true even more now. I believe, we should start Jackson at home against Calgary and give Buck's shoulder more time (even if the injury isn't serious..which we don't know how serious at this point)
I was hopeful that my worry about Buck getting injured before his shoulder was fully strengthened was wrong... and Buck hurting it in the first half of our first regular season game is very disappointing! Guess we'll find out how sore it is next week!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
I think that's it.ziggy wrote:Sekeres might know sports, but not traditional sayings. Comparing apples to eggs?? Used to be oranges, or did I miss his wit?
Matt is a creative, off the wall type guy, and he's going to be attending a TG or two (I've been twisting his arm some) in the next few weeks, so you can decide for yourself.
He loves the League, loves the game, but will have none of these (except for a very few) fan induced hallucinations, as he calls them. He tells it like it is, and doesn't hold back. He isn't a Lions fan per se, (that isn't his bailiwick and Matt is a Renegade Nation member) and covers the team from the Globe's perspective instead of a beat writer's, like Ulrich or Beamish. (Who also do a superb job, of course.)
If something he writes or says irks a Lions fan, then it's time to have a look at what he's saying, IMO. Impartial, no. Will he make you think? Definitely, and that's the point.
PS: Ask him about Hallsy some time. Then sit back and listen. :lol: