Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

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Robbie
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Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

We haven’t had a list or much discussion about this topic before, so I will create one now. Who do you think were some very underrated BC Lions?

I suppose the word underrated can be subjective. One definition is a good player who is snubbed by the league and media as he is never selected for any awards and there are not many good articles written about him. Therefore, he does not receive the praise, recognition, and fame he deserves. Another definition from the fans’ perspective is that the player never receives any respect and appreciation from supporters of his team. Of course, this aspect is harder to quantify as you must rely on observations only. But through general discussions on message boards such as this one, you can get a fairly good idea how well the player is appreciated. Another way to observe this is if he eventually departs from the team, then how much he will be missed by the fans of the team.

A good definition for an underrated player is an unsung hero. There may be several reasons why a player would be unsung, but I’d say the most common reason is because despite his fine individual performance, his team didn’t do well and was thus overshadowed by his bad team. Another reason might be too high expectations from fans when bad teammates were to blame. Bad personalities may have something to do with it as well. Finally, he may simply be overshadowed by another player in the same position who played at the same time.

I will provide a list of the top ten BC Lions who I think are underrated based on my observations. I will provide the list in reverse order starting with #10 and ending with #1. In some cases, I will list more than one person because I feel their circumstances are very similar. I will provide a detailed explanation for each case. In some cases, I feel that the player was snubbed by the league and reporters for awards, while perhaps being under-appreciated by the fans. In other cases, the player may have won awards, but was clearly disrespected by the fans. In making my list, I took into consideration which players won awards, who won awards, who was selected for certain honours such as being inducted on the BC Lions Wall of Fame and selected to the 50th anniversary dream team.

#10. Bill Baker, Larry Cameron, and John Sciarra :roll:
In the otherwise horrible seasons of the 1970’s, three players displayed some fine performances (aside from Jim Young, of course) but were likely overshadowed by the terrible decade. Defensive end Bill Baker became the first Lion to win the Norm Fieldgate trophy for the west division nominee for the Most Outstanding Defensive Player in 1975 and although he didn’t win that year, and he was nominated again in 1976 and this time he won. While Baker is inducted into the Hall of Fame, he is better remembered for his Roughriders years. In 1975, linebacker Larry Cameron became the first Lion to win the Jackie Parker trophy for the west division nominee as the CFL Most Outstanding Rookie. And in 1976, John Sciarra was the first Lion to win Most Outstanding Rookie, and at quarterback of all positions. Despite these firsts for Lions in CFL player awards, these three Lions remain mostly anonymous.

#9. Gerald Roper and Jamie Buis :i:
These two solid guards played for over 100 games as a Lion and at the start of their careers played on either side of centre Al Wilson. But they don’t have nearly the same amount of fame and recognition as the man who played in between them.

#8. Paul Lacoste, Steve Muhammed, and B.J. Gallis :sigh:
Compared to other professional sports leagues, it seems like the Most Outstanding Rookie award doesn’t bring the player as much fame and recognition in the CFL. This was already evidenced by Cameron and Sciarra in #10, but here are three more examples involving these three defensive rookies. In 1997, rookie linebacker B.J. Gallis won the west division nomination for Most Outstanding Rookie with his 45 tackes and 4 sacks in 12 games. In 1998, rookie defensive back Steve Muhammed won Most Outstanding Rookie with his league leading 10 interceptions. In 1999, rookie linebacker Paul Lacoste won Most Outstanding Rookie with his 78 tackles. One’s rookie year can be considered difficult as one makes the transition into a professional league, so the most outstanding rookie award should be a great honour. However, these three players don’t have nearly the same amount of fame and respect as other Lions who have won the award such as Wake, Hunt, Clermont, Simpson, Volpe, Gray, and Bright.

#7. Coach Vic Rapp :no:
Vic Rapp is only one of four Lions coaches to win the Annis Stukus trophy for the CFL Coach of the Year award when he won it in 1977. I agree, Rapp does not fall in the same category as the other winners of Matthews, Buono, and Skrien. But don’t forget that in taking over the Lions in 1977, Rapp led the Lions to a huge improvement as it was their first winning season, home playoff game, and playoff win in 13 years since the 1964 Grey Cup win. At six seasons, Rapp has one of the longest tenures of all Lions coaches and had a winning record of 53-39-4.

#6. Robert Drummond :???:
Robert Drummond won four Grey Cups in his career, the last of which was with the Lions in 2000. Along with someone else who I will list later, Drummond was one of the best free agent signings in 1998 and he has four solid seasons with the Lions. Of the Lions five Grey Cup championships, I’d say the least popular was the 2000 win and along with that, goes Drummond’s MVP performance where he had 122 yards on 10 carries and scored an important 44-yard touchdown caught another three passes for 41 yards. Along with another running back that I will list below, Drummond will likely not be remembered as one of the greatest Lions running backs.

#5. Owner Bill Comrie :bawl:
While there’s no doubt that David Braley has been the best Lions owner, Bill Comrie should not be forgotten either. I stated in another thread that I have a lot of respect for Comrie for having the courage to step in and buy the last-place Lions in the middle of the 1992 season after Murray Pezim had abandoned the team. He knew that it was a risky investment and I’m sure his four years as owner lost him a lot of money in the end. Nevertheless, he put forth a solid effort as owner and at least he tried to use his great furniture entrepreneur skills into selling football too as I wouldn’t complain about his generous giveaways. I like the way he hired Eric Tillman and Dave Ritchie as part of the re-building plan from the horrific 3-15 1992 season as well as his willingness to sign star players such as Kent Austin and Less Browne. As a result, in two years the team was turned into a Grey Cup winner in two years and among all the other memorable things from the 1994 Grey Cup run, let’s not forget the owner of the team either.

#4. Cory Philpot :oops:
For three straight seasons from 1994 to 1996, Cory Philpot rushed for over 1000 yards. In 1994, he won the Eddie James Memorial Trophy for the top rusher in the west division when he established a club record of 1451 rushing yards and was a key component in the Grey Cup win. In 1995,he won the award again while he established a then-CFL and still-Lions record of most touchdowns in a season with 22. 1995 was when Doug Flutie missed part of the season with an injury so he was not up for the CFL MOP award for the fifth straight season, which eventually went to Baltimore’s Mike Pringle. But what outraged me was that Philpot didn’t even win the Jeff Nicklin Memorial Trophy for the West Division MOP nomination, which went to Calgary’s Dave Sapunjis. Despite his accomplishments, I don’t think many fans would consider Philpot as the greatest Lion running back. He is clearly very distant behind Willie Fleming and Sean Millington, who were selected for the dream team. With all due respect to Fleming and Millington who played more seasons, Philpot’s record setting seasons should never be forgotten.

#3. David Williams :x
While Matt Dunigan was well respected in his two years as a Lion, his favourite receiver was not. David Williams became the second Lion to win CFL MOP, but of the five Lions who have won that award, he is by far the least popular. Nobody seemed to like him at all despite him setting a then-Lions record of 18 touchdowns in 1988, his first in the CFL. And nobody seemed to feel it was a great loss when he left for Toronto after 1989, where he continued to be a favourite target of Dunigan in the explosive Argos offence of 1990 and was part of their 1991 Grey Cup winning team.

#2. Kent Austin :bang:
Kent Austin will forever be overshadowed by the heroics of Danny McManus in the 1994 playoffs. But let’s not forget that Austin was still the Lions main starting QB for most of the 1994 regular season. And I stated before in other threads that I think the three way trade that replaced Danny Barrett with Austin as Lions QB was one of the best trades the Lions have ever made. I felt that Austin was a very solid and accurate passer, and he was a decent rusher too in short yardage situations as he scored several rushing touchdowns on bootleg plays. In the 1994 Grey Cup, Austin completed 7 passes, albeit with 3 interceptions but that was still more than the three McManus completed. Austin led the Lions in the opening drive that led to a field goal, and the GC was won mostly by the rushing game and defence. While McManus came to the rescue in the 1994 WDF after Austin was injured, let’s not forget that the roles were reversed in the 1994 WDSF in Edmonton where McManus started but then left with an injury. Kent Austin came in and did a good job in relief. After the Charles Gordon interception, Austin came in and drove the Lions down the field to set up Lui Passaglia’s game winning field goal.



And finally, the #1 most underrated BC Lion is……..



#1. Damon Allen :shock:
As a Lions quarterback, Allen is second in tenure only to Roy Dewalt. I think we can all agree that pro football’s all-time leading passer will definitely be inducted into the Hall of Fame. But despite his long tenure with the team, Allen doesn’t have nearly the same amount of respect and recognition as other QB’s who played far fewer games than him and who never brought the Lions a championship such as Dunigan, Printers, and Flutie. And I stated in another thread that unlike more favoured QB’s like Kapp, Dewalt, Dunigan, and even Dickenson, Allen along with Kent Austin brought the Lions to a win in his FIRST Grey Cup appearance as the Lions starting QB, unlike those other four who suffered losses in their first GC appearance as a Lions QB. In the 2000 Grey Cup, Allen passed for 234 yards and no interceptions along with two rushing TD’s, and those are slightly better passing numbers than Dickenson’s 184-yard MVP performance in the 2006 GC. Despite his old age, Allen was never injured for long periods of time in his seven years as a Lion, unlike Dickenson. While we may all agree that Doug Flutie was a big free agent loss, I pointed out in other threads that the fact Damon Allen was actually available to be signed several games into the 1996 season after Andre Ware proved ineffective was indeed a miracle. It was surprising that he didn’t get offers from other teams when he was out of a job at the start of 1996 when the Memphis Mad Dogs and other American-based teams folded. Nobody felt it was a great loss when Allen was traded to Toronto in 2003, despite the fact that he came back to haunt the Lions with wins over them in the 2003 East Division Semi-Final and of course, the 2004 Grey Cup and topped off his fine career with winning 2005 MOP.
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你蛇年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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B.C.FAN
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Robbie wrote:#8. Paul Lacoste, Steve Muhammed, and B.J. Gallis :sigh:
Compared to other professional sports leagues, it seems like the Most Outstanding Rookie award doesn’t bring the player as much fame and recognition in the CFL. This was already evidenced by Cameron and Sciarra in #10, but here are three more examples involving these three defensive rookies. In 1997, rookie linebacker B.J. Gallis won the west division nomination for Most Outstanding Rookie with his 45 tackes and 4 sacks in 12 games. In 1998, rookie defensive back Steve Muhammed won Most Outstanding Rookie with his league leading 10 interceptions. In 1999, rookie linebacker Paul Lacoste won Most Outstanding Rookie with his 78 tackles. One’s rookie year can be considered difficult as one makes the transition into a professional league, so the most outstanding rookie award should be a great honour. However, these three players don’t have nearly the same amount of fame and respect as other Lions who have won the award such as Wake, Hunt, Clermont, Simpson, Volpe, Gray, and Bright.
Good topic, Robbie. I'll have to think for a while to come up with additional names.

As for No. 8, though, it could be argued that these three rookie award finalists were among the most overrated Lions. None was able to duplicate the success of his rookie season.

Paul Lacoste tried out with the NFL, came back in the middle of the season but was released. He later was awarded a 2000 Grey Cup ring and some back salary in arbitration after claiming he was cut while injured.

Steve Muhammad jumped to the NFL, changed his name to Mustafah Muhammad and made headlines when he was convicted of beating his pregnant wife.

B.J. Gallis wasn't re-signed by the Lions. He later surfaced in Edmonton.
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WestCoastJoe
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Good topic, Robbie.

And some very good recommendations.

I agree totally with:

Vic Rapp - He brought competitiveness and pride back to the Lions. He was so intense he scared his coaches as much as the players. Tom Coughlin of the Giants reminds me of Rapp. I was very happy to see how much Rapp enjoyed being brought back by Ackles along with all the other Alumni a couple of years ago.

Bill Comrie - Kept the franchise going. Brought us Eric Tillman and Dave Ritchie and a Grey Cup in 1994.

Damon Allen - Cranky old Gramps. Slow out of the gate. Inconsistent. Kind of ordinary in the regular season. But has played wonderfully in some Big Games. Thanks for the Grey Cup of 2000. I hope you settle back in White Rock when your playing days are over. That might be when you turn 50 or so.

I would add:

Roy DeWalt - I don't think he was loved by the fans. He was a great runner and scrambler in his younger days. Matthews would never talk about why he wouldn't let DeWalt run the ball more. It seemed like Matthews was hiding an injury or a more serious incapacity.

Steve Buratto - Kind of the Rodney Dangerfield of the CFL. Gets bounced around. Gets stabbed in the back. Has had unusual hardships to deal with in his private life as well. But he is a gamer. I give him all the respect. Thanks for your contributions to the Grey Cup of 2000.

Lyle Green - Can run. Can catch. Can block. No complaints. Just production. Always a pro.

Bret Anderson - Getting more respect the last few years, partly because of his longevity. People finally notice him. How clutch he is. How multi-talented. What a great team guy. Wally says that before he came to B.C. he underestimated Bret Anderson as well.

Kato - Equipment guy El Supremo. A great presence on the team.

Bill Reichelt - Trainer Second to None. Another great presence on the team.

David Braley. Do we take him for granted? I think we do a bit. Saved the Lions franchise. Probably saved the CFL. Doesn't seek publicity. Doesn't grand stand. Fully supportive. As good an owner in sports as I have seen. Makes all kinds of charitable contributions to his communities. Doesn't do the Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban or George Steinbrenner kind of ownership thing ("This is all about me.") :thup:
Last edited by WestCoastJoe on Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:30 am, edited 4 times in total.
TheLionKing
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Damon Allen underrated ? I consider him to be overrated. Watched a lot of quarterbacks come and go in my time. Damon was by far the most frustrating to watch. For someone who has played as long as he have, you would think he can manage the 20 second time clock.
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

My vote is a tandem: Danny Mac/Darren Flutie. These two had a chemistry and personally I would have loved to see both of them working together, AS BC LIONS, for longer.
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

notahomer wrote:My vote is a tandem: Danny Mac/Darren Flutie. These two had a chemistry and personally I would have loved to see both of them working together, AS BC LIONS, for longer.
But as everybody remembers them and praises them for the 1994 GC run, they are no means forgotten and underrated. Let's just stick with underrated players, please.
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你蛇年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

My vote would be for Mike Trevethan.
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

I was never a Damon Allen fan for the same reason that so many fans have been turned off by him throughout his career. Consistency. I found Damon to be one of the most frustrating QB's I have ever watched. On any given day he could beat any team in the league and look unstoppable. And on any given day, he could also get beat by the same team and look like the worst QB in the league while doing it. I got extremely tired of watching Damon throw the ball to areas where his receivers were nowhere to be found. It happened far too often, and on far too many teams for it to be the receiver's fault. For whatever reason, players have trouble getting on the same page when Damon's QB. For me, the quintessential Damon season was in 2002 when the Lions went 10-8 and they managed the impressive feat of beating every team in the league, and losing to every team in the league with the exception of the expansion Renegades. Damon is streaky enough to get you to the odd Grey Cup championship as he did in 2000 and 2004, but that just adds to the frustration.

There's also another reason why it's difficult for teams who have Damon as their QB. His level of inconsistency is such that he breeds apathy in the stands. Both the Lions and Argos suffered at the box office because fans never know which Damon is going show up. Damon is frankly bad for business. The Lions only really re-emerged in this market after they got rid of Damon.

It's for these reasons that I will never consider Damon underrated in BC. I think that he is rated exactly where he should be: an average QB who won us a championship but didn't win many new fans along the way.
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Well said. :thup:
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Big Time wrote:I was never a Damon Allen fan for the same reason that so many fans have been turned off by him throughout his career. Consistency. I found Damon to be one of the most frustrating QB's I have ever watched. On any given day he could beat any team in the league and look unstoppable. And on any given day, he could also get beat by the same team and look like the worst QB in the league while doing it. I got extremely tired of watching Damon throw the ball to areas where his receivers were nowhere to be found. It happened far too often, and on far too many teams for it to be the receiver's fault. For whatever reason, players have trouble getting on the same page when Damon's QB. For me, the quintessential Damon season was in 2002 when the Lions went 10-8 and they managed the impressive feat of beating every team in the league, and losing to every team in the league with the exception of the expansion Renegades. Damon is streaky enough to get you to the odd Grey Cup championship as he did in 2000 and 2004, but that just adds to the frustration.

There's also another reason why it's difficult for teams who have Damon as their QB. His level of inconsistency is such that he breeds apathy in the stands. Both the Lions and Argos suffered at the box office because fans never know which Damon is going show up. Damon is frankly bad for business. The Lions only really re-emerged in this market after they got rid of Damon.

It's for these reasons that I will never consider Damon underrated in BC. I think that he is rated exactly where he should be: an average QB who won us a championship but didn't win many new fans along the way.
I agree wholeheartedly. I will add that the time count violations happen to him for a reason over most other QB's with 10% the experience. IR one play where the Lions were going for a 3rd and goal from about the 14 or so. After scrambling effectively to buy some time, he was nearing the sidelines and rather than throw the ball into the endzone, he simply ran out the sidelines. There was zero potential to gain the points by doing so, and the only real risk he had by tossing a hope and prayer ball into the endzone was an INT. To me that single play will always stand out as the reason DA is so very frustrating, as you just never know if is head is in the game or not. If I was a pessimistic type individual, I would have to wonder if he wasn't laying down side bets on games.
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

I remember several occasions in his last year with the Lions that they missed field goal opportunities in the last minute of the first half because Allen ran out of time. :bang:
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Rammer wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly. I will add that the time count violations happen to him for a reason over most other QB's with 10% the experience. IR one play where the Lions were going for a 3rd and goal from about the 14 or so. After scrambling effectively to buy some time, he was nearing the sidelines and rather than throw the ball into the endzone, he simply ran out the sidelines. There was zero potential to gain the points by doing so, and the only real risk he had by tossing a hope and prayer ball into the endzone was an INT.
Oh man, I had completely forgotten about that! I remember being super pissed about that at the time. The more memories of Damon Allen brought up, the more this could be come a Damon De-Appreciation Thread! The time count violations were infuriating as I don't think he's gone a game in his life without one.

That's one thing I always loved about DD. That guy was a master of clockology.
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Robbie wrote:
notahomer wrote:My vote is a tandem: Danny Mac/Darren Flutie. These two had a chemistry and personally I would have loved to see both of them working together, AS BC LIONS, for longer.
But as everybody remembers them and praises them for the 1994 GC run, they are no means forgotten and underrated. Let's just stick with underrated players, please.
I WAS sticking to the topic. As a tandem they got away, why? I think they were underrated (especially the chemistry they had TOGETHER- hence the tandem).

Another personal favourite- Ryan Thewell. I lost a few chunks of hair pulling them out at the roots during his droppsies phase. I think by the time he'd left he become a pretty decent non-import reciever. I still think Thewell is not getting the ball as much as he should and I hope DD doesn't make a lot of use of him in any 2008 matchups with the Lions.
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

Jan Carinci, Matt Clark, Thelwell, Anthony Parker etc.
Thank you for everything you did for OUR Lions Mr.Ackles, we will never forget you...RIP
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Re: Top Ten Most Underrated BC Lions

WestCoastJoe wrote:Roy DeWalt - I don't think he was loved by the fans. He was a great runner and scrambler in his younger days. Matthews would never talk about why he wouldn't let DeWalt run the ball more. It seemed like Matthews was hiding an injury or a more serious incapacity.
I wouldn't say Dewalt was underrated as that's too strong of a word for someone who has been inducted to the BC Lions Wall of Fame. And I don't think any fans really despised him.
Big Time wrote:The time count violations were infuriating as I don't think he's gone a game in his life without one.
In the 2000 Grey Cup game, Allen was instrumental on several second down plays and successfully passed or rushed to keep the drive alive. And the only time he had a time count violation late in the fourth quarter, that turned out to be a blessing in disguise when a Montreal Alouettes defender knocked him down and was flagged for a major foul.
notahomer wrote:I WAS sticking to the topic. As a tandem they got away, why? I think they were underrated (especially the chemistry they had TOGETHER- hence the tandem).
Well, you might have a case if you argue they were underrated in the fact that they were lost as free agents when the Skalbania reign of 1996 decided not to offer them contract extensions. But I think losing a player via free agency has more to do than just how the player is rated.

But you certainly cannot say they were underrated by the league. Last year, there was a contest to decide on the best Passer-Receiver tandem, and the DannyMac-DaFlutie tandem was one of the nominated candidates. And certainly from the fans perspective, they certainly were not underrated as everybody in BC appreciated their chemistry in 1994, and I'm sure they were appreciated in Edmonton too when they clicked in the narrow Grey Cup loss of 1996, and they were certainly appreciated again by those in Hamilton in their 1999 Grey Cup win.
notahomer wrote:Another personal favourite- Ryan Thewell.
From both a league and fan's perspective, I'd say underrated is too strong a word to describe Ryan Thelwell. He was selected as a West Division all-star in 2004. And I don't think any BC fans disliked or disrespected him. I'm sure all BC fans still remember his long TD catch on the second play of the 2004 WDF, and I'd say most were sad to see him leave after 2006.
Lion Guy wrote:My vote would be for Mike Trevethan.
Yeah, Trevathan along with Matt Clark were a pair of solid slotbacks from the early to mid-1990's. But at least Matt Clark was selected as a CFL all-star in 1991 and was the Lions nominee as top Canadian but lost the west division nomination to Edmonton's Blake Marshall.
Lion24 wrote:Anthony Parker
Anthony Parker was decent in the four seasons and he deserved his 1988 West all-star selection. But I wouldn't put his quality of play on the same level as other running backs I've listed like Philpot or Drummond, so I'd say he was less underrated.
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你蛇年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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