Marc Lalonde Fought for the CFL, Introduced a Bill in 1974

[WestCoastJoe]

Foray into Canada will doom CFL: Ackles

Ed Willes, Canwest News Service

Published: Friday, February 01, 2008

PHOENIX, Ariz. -- When NFL commissioner Roger Goodell announces today that Toronto will play host to eight Buffalo Bills games over the next five years, he will present it as a positive development for both his league and the CFL.

B.C. Lions president Bob Ackles, on the other hand, has a different take on the matter.

Ackles believes this move is the toehold would-be NFL owners Ted Rogers and Larry Tanenbaum have been looking to secure in Toronto and, ultimately, it will lead to the demise of the CFL. Ackles, whose feelings on this subject are well known, has been silent on it for a while.

Thursday he broke that silence in a big way.

"That's no CFL, no Grey Cup and, in the end, no minor football in Canada because kids will see they don't have a chance to play pro ball," Ackles said, reacting to the news which is expected to come out today at Goodell's Super Bowl press conference.

"(Goodell) will handle it very diplomatically but this is the tip of the berg. It might take some time but you can see where this is going."

Today's announcement has long been in the works and is expected to include some concessions for the CFL. The games -- five regular-season contests, three in the pre-season over the five-year period -- will be played in December after the Grey Cup. It's also thought that Toronto Argonauts' and Hamilton Tiger-Cats' season-ticket holders will get priority in the purchase of tickets.

But Ackles says that's just a flimsy attempt at spin control.

"I'm just one guy," Ackles said. "But I think it's just a matter of time. There are two guys (Rogers and Tananenbaum) with a lot of money and they usually get what they want.

"Why would anyone want to go to Toronto? No. 1, it's ego. No. 2, it's the money. It's a big foot in the door and they'll draw sponsorship money out of southern Ontario. And that means there won't be a national TV contract (for the CFL)."

Ralph Wilson, the Bills' owner, is 89 and has said his estate will likely sell the franchise to the highest bidder on his passing.

There is still no NFL team in Los Angeles but there's no ownership group, either.

"(Former NFL commissioners) Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue wouldn't have handled it this way," Ackles said. "Goodell came out and said he wants to grow the game internationally. Well, it's failed in Europe so where does that leave?"

Vancouver Province

Bobby Ackles:

"That's no CFL, no Grey Cup and, in the end, no minor football in Canada because kids will see they don't have a chance to play pro ball," Ackles said, reacting to the news which is expected to come out today at Goodell's Super Bowl press conference.

"(Goodell) will handle it very diplomatically but this is the tip of the berg. It might take some time but you can see where this is going."

"(Former NFL commissioners) Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue wouldn't have handled it this way," Ackles said. "Goodell came out and said he wants to grow the game internationally. Well, it's failed in Europe so where does that leave?"
......................

I'm glad Ackles is speaking out. I share his concern about the future of the CFL if the NFL makes inroads into Canada. There is always going to be room for a "minor league of football" in Canada, but it will be much diminished in terms of prestige and as a business concept.

The rich Toronto guys (Rogers and Tanenbaum) want more money and more prestige. I don't think they give a rat's ass about the great history of the CFL or of Canadian sovereignty.

Ugghhhhh ... If I was in Toronto at the appropriate time, I think I might protest against the Bills playing there. Keep your game in the US.

[Tighthead]

I like Ackles, but he is a little too gloom and doom on this one for me, with his talk about the destruction of minor football, etc. I am by nature anti-protectionist, and when someone starts asking for government protection, I cringe a little. To my ear, it is a way of saying "my product is not good enough to stand on its own merit". I love the CFL, want it to be strong, and understand that it is different than an ordinary business. Still, I think Ackles message might have broader appeal if he spoke in more moderate terms.

[WestCoastJoe]

I like Ackles, but he is a little too gloom and doom on this one for me, with his talk about the destruction of minor football, etc. I am by nature anti-protectionist, and when someone starts asking for government protection, I cringe a little. To my ear, it is a way of saying "my product is not good enough to stand on its own merit". I love the CFL, want it to be strong, and understand that it is different than an ordinary business. Still, I think Ackles message might have broader appeal if he spoke in more moderate terms.

I hear you, Tighthead.

But as I said, I am more supportive of Ackles statements and approach on this issue. It seems to me that if the Bills eventually move to Toronto, it is good business for the NFL, for the Toronto guys, and maybe even for the Toronto economy. It seems to me it is bad business for the CFL.

I tend to be anti-protectionist too. But, if the NFL has a team in Canada, would a Toronto kid or adult want to wear Argo's gear or Bills' gear? Would the CFL retain its present level of appeal to CFL fans? I could be wrong, but I think it would be much dimished, as I said above.

My reasons are mostly selfish. I have grown to love the CFL, its community roots, its interesting athletes, its personalities, its accessibility, its local flavour, and its smaller-pond atmosphere. I also love its game: wide open, fast paced, strategic. The game is awesome. If the CFL collapsed or became much diminished I would feel a personal loss. I know these are not the best reasons for anything, but I would actually support the Canadian government if it legislated to protect the CFL.

One more selfish reason: if I wish to see an NFL game, I can go to Seattle quite easily. They are pretty much the NFL home town team for me. Toronto is a "million miles away," and, along with Edmonton, pretty much "the other guys." Would I feel proud if Canada had an NFL team? I couldn't care less. I would probably root against the Toronto "whatevers."

I expect Rogers and Tanenbaum hope the team would become "Canada's Team." Not for me they wouldn't. No way. They would be the Toronto Turncoats. The Toronto Aliens. The Toronto Invaders. The Toronto Occupying Force. I would have to enlist in the insurgency, la Résistance. :lol:

There was a time when I preferred the NFL to the CFL. Not in the last few years. I have grown accustomed to our league and feel protective of it. Could it survive on its own without intervention? Maybe. Should it be forced to survive on its own? Opinions will differ.

I'm not looking for a debate on the issue, just stating my preferences, as are you. I think I have covered all the points I wanted to make, so I will leave the last word to you.

[Tighthead]

I like Ackles, but he is a little too gloom and doom on this one for me, with his talk about the destruction of minor football, etc. I am by nature anti-protectionist, and when someone starts asking for government protection, I cringe a little. To my ear, it is a way of saying "my product is not good enough to stand on its own merit". I love the CFL, want it to be strong, and understand that it is different than an ordinary business. Still, I think Ackles message might have broader appeal if he spoke in more moderate terms.

I hear you, Tighthead.

But as I said, I am more supportive of Ackles statements and approach on this issue. It seems to me that if the Bills eventually move to Toronto, it is good business for the NFL, for the Toronto guys, and maybe even for the Toronto economy. It seems to me it is bad business for the CFL.

I tend to be anti-protectionist too. But, if the NFL has a team in Canada, would a Toronto kid or adult want to wear Argo's gear or Bills' gear? Would the CFL retain its present level of appeal to CFL fans? I could be wrong, but I think it would be much dimished, as I said above.

My reasons are mostly selfish. I have grown to love the CFL, its community roots, its interesting athletes, its personalities, its accessibility, its local flavour, and its smaller-pond atmosphere. If the CFL collapsed or became much diminished I would feel a personal loss. I know these are not the best reasons for anything, but I would actually support the Canadian government if it legislated to protect the CFL.

There was a time when I preferred the NFL to the CFL. Not in the last few years. I have grown accustomed to our league and feel protective of it. Could it survive on its own without intervention? Maybe. Should it be forced to survive on its own? Opinions will differ.

I'm not looking for a debate on the issue, just stating my preferences, as are you. I think I have covered all the points I wanted to make, so I will leave the last word to you.

I tend to agree with you, but I just think Ackles would do better to moderate his Chicken Little/Minister of Information approach. He is preaching to the choir, and that is about it. To my ear, when he starts talking about the destruction of minor football, he is so extreme as to lose credibility. I am not necessarily against some sort of protection for the CFL, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. People tend not to like the alarmist approach.

No need to give me the last word, I think we agree much more than we disagree.

[ziggy]

Sad part of all of this will be seperating the wheat from the chaff in the upcomming year. The spin and hysteria will be exploited to the max. Potential Canadian franchises will be screaming for government built stadiums to stem the American invasion and the Bills will be using this to muster more American fan support to stem the loss of an NFL franchise to Canuckistan. Suffice to say at the end of the day the NFL will do what is best for the NFL and at this point in time a team full time in Canada is not likely to be a huge benefit to the league. I suspect if the NFL ever does expand into Canada and I see no reason why they would because they all ready have the fans and marketing, they will look at getting a built in rivalry i.e. two Canadian teams. Having said that though who knows maybe Toronto and Tiajuana would fit the bill.

[Jim Mullin]

The best solution to all this is to have the Rogers-Tannenbaum-Lind group buy the Argos. It's chump change for them and would create a platform for co-marketing the Bills and the CFL. Ted Rogers actually looked at buying the Argos a few years back.

Too bad Cynamon and Sokolowski aren't on speaking terms with Tanenbaum. That's part of what is entrenching the rift between the two camps.

[Lions4ever]

I like Ackles, but he is a little too gloom and doom on this one for me, with his talk about the destruction of minor football, etc. I am by nature anti-protectionist, and when someone starts asking for government protection, I cringe a little. To my ear, it is a way of saying "my product is not good enough to stand on its own merit". I love the CFL, want it to be strong, and understand that it is different than an ordinary business. Still, I think Ackles message might have broader appeal if he spoke in more moderate terms.

I'm very pro-protectionist. That's what nations and borders and flags and constitutions etc. are all about. The NFL behemoth could squish the CFL like a bug any time it wanted so I think protectionism towards a national cultural asset in the face of the prospect of near-certain death is a national duty AFAIC.

[Big Time]

Could someone explain to me why they think the league couldn't survive without Toronto? It was less than 5 years ago that the Argos were literally dying on the vine. They were one of the weakest franchises in terms of attendance of all the teams in the league. The CFL actually was experiencing tremendous growth during this period, and that was without support for the Argos. I personally think that the CFL and the NFL could co-exist, as long as it's just Toronto getting an NFL team. It's not like the corporate support from Toronto is all that much to write home about. I'd be more than willing to sacrifice the Argos if it meant creating three more teams in other markets (for example, Halifax, Quebec City, Ottawa, Moncton, Kelowna to name a few).

[TheLionKing]

Halifax and Quebec City are possibilities but Kelowna ??

[No Ka Oi]

Big Time must be from out-of-province, because nobody from BC would ever project Kelowna as a potential CFL city...but perhaps in about a hundred years.

Good on Bobby to stand up for Canada and the CFL! He is being portrayed as a "chicken little" out east, but he has decades of experience in the NFL and CFL and knows what this is all about. The CFL is just welcoming the Trojan Horse into their castle by cooperating with these American invaders.

The CFL and NFL are in direct competition for the same football fans entertainment dollars. It is us or them, and the last thing the Argos should be doing is turning over their season ticket holder list to the NFL...for what?

[Tighthead]

Big Time must be from out-of-province, because nobody from BC would ever project Kelowna as a potential CFL city...but perhaps in about a hundred years.

Good on Bobby to stand up for Canada and the CFL! He is being portrayed as a "chicken little" out east, but he has decades of experience in the NFL and CFL and knows what this is all about. The CFL is just welcoming the Trojan Horse into their castle by cooperating with these American invaders.

The CFL and NFL are in direct competition for the same football fans entertainment dollars. It is us or them, and the last thing the Argos should be doing is turning over their season ticket holder list to the NFL...for what?

If Buffalo was a good market, and really only wanted to play one game a year, after the GC, it would make sense. However, Buffalo is dying, and Toronto is rich beyond belief. The next owner of the Bills will want to move the team, and if it goes to Toronto, they can spin it as "within the existing market" and not a relocation.

As an example, if the Mariners were to play three games a year in Vancouver, or even more, it would be no big deal. Seattle is a better baseball market, the franchise is fairly stable, etc. That is not the situation with Buffalo and Toronto.

[TheLionKing]

Kudos to Bobby Ackles for stating his concerns. I'll trust Ackles with his vast football experience than those Eastern pundits.

[No Ka Oi]

I don't buy this "Buffalo is dying" theme. Their population might have dropped by a few thousand, but they still have well over 1 million people and have nearly the highest attendance in the NFL. The league doesn't seem to mind having Green Bay in the league and that city will never be more than a fraction of Buffalo's population. Buffalo's manufacturing sector has been suffering, but so has Toronto's. The Ontario premier just made a plea to the PM to lower the Canadian dollar because Ontario can't compete with the U.S. at par and they have lost hundred of thousands of manufacturing jobs there also.

The income from the U.S. TV deal pays the total operating expenses of an NFL franchise. Ticket sales and local media income are just pocket change for the owners, that is the only real dfference between Buffalo and any other NFL city.

I could give you a long list of advantages Buffalo has over Toronto for an NFL franchise. So the move of the Bills to Toronto is not a given. Since they are deemed as part of the Buffalo market, their only hope for a franchise is to purchase the Bills and move them to a foreign country. Do you really think the NFL wants to be singing O'Canada at the Super Bowl? Dream on.

[Tighthead]

Buffalo also has about the lowest ticket prices in the league. They have population, but they don't have the wealth.

Green Bay is a non factor as it is not for profit.

Look at what will happen to revenues in Dallas with the new stadium. It is not about "pocket change" - it is real money that owners want. If Buffalo is a good market, why did Wilson whine about his lot so much during the last CBA? Some fellow owners felt Buffalo was getting too much of a subsidy, and should simply move to a better market. Jacksonville might move as well. Just getting the TV money is not satisfactory with most owners, nor should it be.

I'm not saying a team can't be profitable in Buffalo, but there are lots of markets where it could be way more profitable. Toronto's wealth and corporate presence is much, much greater than that of Buffalo.

[No Ka Oi]

Toronto may have more corporate money than Buffalo, but then L.A. has much more than Toronto. Buffalo has only sold out 162 of their 165 corporate luxury boxes and Ralph Wilson stated these empty luxury boxes were the reason they wanted to tap into the Toronto market, to get more corporate support to sell these remaining boxes. Rogers Center has only 75 luxury boxes (mostly unused for decades except for Grey Cup games).