2010 Winter Olympic Mascots

[woody]

They should of used a Mountain Lion.

[TheLionKing]

I don't know about the rest of folks but I am just plain tired of everything of this nature having some kind of Native Reference. Sure that is part of this province and this country but must it always be the poster topic for any kind of provincial event or artwork display or public building or gift given to visitors? This is isn't meant to be disrespectful to members of the Native community but really, how much are most of the citizenry of this province reflected by this kind of stuff?

This is not the end by any means. Bet the medals will have a native theme.

[Sir Purrcival]

Oh I had to restrain myself about things like the opening ceremonies, closing ceremonies, etc. etc. etc. You know the drummers and the dancers and all the rest will be present. Nothing wrong with that but damn can't we come up with something a little more representative.

[CartWheelFan]

I don't know about the rest of folks but I am just plain tired of everything of this nature having some kind of Native Reference. Sure that is part of this province and this country but must it always be the poster topic for any kind of provincial event or artwork display or public building or gift given to visitors? This is isn't meant to be disrespectful to members of the Native community but really, how much are most of the citizenry of this province reflected by this kind of stuff?

This is not the end by any means. Bet the medals will have a native theme.

I was just trying to find a weblink to the mascots to show a friend of mine, and I was directed to Christy Clark's homepage, and apparently she will be discussing this topic on the air tomorrow. I'm not usually one for talk radio but I think I will listen to this one, as it should be an interesting show to say the least.

As for the native themes, we seem to be on the right track there, just check out the following comment that was posted on Christy's comment board about the mascots;

"Comment from Jessie Hemphill
Time: November 27, 2007, 9:18 pm

As an aboriginal person from British Columbia, I cannot even begin to find the words needed to express my deep sense of sadness at the fact that yet again our culture has been appropriated by non-aboriginals for shameless economic gain. When I first read the explanation behind these mascots, based on ‘traditional first nations legends’ I literally wept at the realization that, as a nation, we still find it acceptable to bastardize incredibly ancient sacred beliefs. As if it were not bad enough to take away our land, languages, children, etc. etc., the dignity of our ancient myths must be taken away as well, to be replaced by these watered-down caricatures that will now be internationally recognized as truly representative of the coastal first nations people. Whoever thought that these mascots are in any way acceptable should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves."

[Sir Purrcival]

This was another comment that I almost made. I'm not surprised that some members of the aboriginal community must look on this kind of stuff with some kind of disgust or wry amusement. Natives on the whole, rightly or wrongly have felt very disenfranchised with the rest of Canadian society. Some must look upon this stuff as some kind of hypocrisy on our part. We come up with these themes to "pay respect" and "honour" the native origins of this province when in fact I would be willing to bet money that most most natives feel that the rest of us have done anything but respect their culture and traditions. Now, I know these are only mascots and perhaps it isn't worth getting worked up about them too much but damn, we really seem to have a fixation on this subject matter which when examined more closely is neither genuine or representative.

PS

I wonder how much of the $$$ garnered from sale of these mascots will actually find its way into the hands of natives who were the inspiration for them.

[Belize City Lion]

Not a big fan of the mascots. They should sell well with Japenese tourists and anyone else who likes Pokemon.

Canada has come a long way in coming to terms with it's own indentity in the past 10 or 15 years, but sadly we can't seem to get beyond this idea that stealing First Nations iconography some how makes us appear enlightened and makes up for 200 years of abuse and neglect of the indigenous people of our country.

[CartWheelFan]

I have a question, I hope it can be conidered slightly on topic, what are/would they like us to call them these days? Obviously not them, but I'm a bit in the dark on this one. When I was in university I took history courses where they were called first nations, aparently we can't call them indians, at one point I thought they prefered native american/native Canadian, if they're from up north we call them Inuit (unless they're from Edmonton then we call them Eskimo's :lol: ) The person in the comment I mentioned above refered to herself as an aboriginal (which I always thought refered to the indigenous people of Australia) So I'm really not sure anymore

I've never been good with all this PC stuff, we had one native guy on our crew once, we just called him James the electrician, he worked hard, had a sense of humor and was a good electrician. My buddy dated a native girl, I just called her Ruby. Other than that I don't know, but honestly it's not something I lose sleep over.

If someone can clarify for me what the (current) correct name to use is, that would be helpful I'm sure

[Robbie]

I have a question similar to CartWheelFan.

When you hear the term Indian, is your first reaction someone from India or a Native American?

I've noticed an obvious terminology difference with regards to usage of the term Indian in Canada vs. the USA. In Canada, I believe people from India are specifically referred to as East Indians or the more politically correct Indo-Canadians. But I noticed that in America, the term East Indian is not used and people from India are simply called Indians. When I used the term East Indian with some Americans, they thought I was referring to people from the eastern part of India instead of the entire country. So apparently in America, there isn't a term to clearly distinguish people from India with Native Americans. Speaking with several Americans, all of them tell me that usage of the term Indian is understood to refer to people from India only and the aborigines are referred to as the more politically correct Native Americans.

I guess we've come a long ways since those Cowboys vs. Indians days of childhood toys, but I have to say that the terms have been drilled in my mind that if I hear the term Indian, my first reaction would still be a Native American whereas someone like Bobby Singh would be referred to as an East Indian.

[Belize City Lion]

When I was back home in the summer I had dinner with an old high school friend (who I hadn't seen in 24 years!). She's East Indian, or if you prefer Indo-Canadian.

Anyway, I was telling her that my wife was half black, half Indian, and she said "I thought your wife was Belizean?". "She is" I said. "But are there Indians in Belize?" she asked. "Yes, lots of them, they originally came as indentured labourers back in the 1800's" I told her. "Oh you mean she's East Indian!" she said realizing I was talking about people from India, "I thought you meant your wife was half native".

The point is, here an Indo-Canadian woman who automatically associates "Indian" with native people, not people from India.

Here in Belize we never use "East Indian", although the indigenous Maya people are often refered to as "Mayan Indians", which is actually doubly wrong. "Mayan" refers to elements of the Maya people's culture not their ethnicity, and they are not from India either.

[BC_Brad]

I'm just glad that someone posted the cartoon pics of the three characters. Without that I would have had NO idea which was the Squach, Bird, and Bear. There is nothing on them that really differentiates! (except the wings)

[smphantom]

When I was back home in the summer I had dinner with an old high school friend (who I hadn't seen in 24 years!). She's East Indian, or if you prefer Indo-Canadian.

Anyway, I was telling her that my wife was half black, half Indian, and she said "I thought your wife was Belizean?". "She is" I said. "But are there Indians in Belize?" she asked. "Yes, lots of them, they originally came as indentured labourers back in the 1800's" I told her. "Oh you mean she's East Indian!" she said realizing I was talking about people from India, "I thought you meant your wife was half native".

The point is, here an Indo-Canadian woman who automatically associates "Indian" with native people, not people from India.

Here in Belize we never use "East Indian", although the indigenous Maya people are often refered to as "Mayan Indians", which is actually doubly wrong. "Mayan" refers to elements of the Maya people's culture not their ethnicity, and they are not from India either.

Don't forget the West Indians from the West Indies.

[crburrows]

Don't forget the West Indians from the West Indies.

I was on a road trip with a friend from Sri Lanka.

He asked, in a thick accent (think Apu, but a little heavier), "why they do (sic) call 'Native Indians,' Indians?" I'm sure you had to be there to feel the full humour of the situation, but I did tell him about Christopher Columbus' miscalculation on the circumference of the earth, and all, and we had a good laugh.

Nonetheless, it's legally correct (although perhaps not politically correct) to call the descendants of the people who were here when Cook, Vancouver & Co. arrived "Indians," as they are still called such under federal legislation.

On US television, they are still referred to as "American Indians," even when they're in Canada (I suppose they are using the continental "America" rather than the national one).

When I worked at a gas station across the street from the Squamish reserve in North Van, a band police officer visited (just for gas/coffee), and I told him about a holdup that had happened in the past week. He asked "were they Native?" So, I suppose that that's as good a general term as any.

[Belize City Lion]

Natives in Saskatchewan refer to themselves as Indians. I had a chat with some Indian women in Regina last year and I asked them why natives in BC are "First Nation's People" while natives in Saskatchewan were still called Indians. She said to me "I can't speak for the Indians in BC, but here in Saskatchewan we are proud of being called Indian. That's what we are, we are Indians. We've always been Indians.".

[TheLionKing]

I had a native person worked for me. One day I asked her what does she prefer to be known as: native, Indian, aboriginal, First Nation's person. She replied "Indian" Some people I know call that term racist.

[Whisperin' Jimmy]

Sir Purrcival - I going to step up and argue with you. I think the native motifs are entirely appropriate. Not the mascots in particular, mind you - too corporate-Tokyo-Disney for my taste. But as a general theme, I say the more native-inspired art and decor the better. Let me make the case:

First, this type of native art is indigineous to this part of the world. Aboriginal art is immediately recognizable as Australian; Celtic designs as Irish. We too have a ready-made visusal style that immediately identifies BC to rest of the world. Now, why would we abandon that if favour of some bland, generic style that represents everyone and no-one?

Moose and mounties are boring and not BC-specific - a criticism levelled at the inukshuk, you'll recall. Once you abandon the native "theme", you get a bland multicultural hodgepodge. I suppose a Grizzly wearing a turban and taking a bong hit while eating sushi and watching 'Desperate Housewives' would represent us all, but would that really be an improvement?

Second, West Coast native art has unparalleled aesthetic qualities. Even if you set out to create some new cedar, salmon and orca logo that would be distinctly West Coast, in the end it would be a pale imitation of the artistic style the natives have already developed. Locals might love to see Johnny Canuck carrying an axe, but NO ONE else in the world would think that was cool or want to buy it. On the other hand, any discerning tourist from Oslo or Tokyo is snapping up the native stuff because it is aesthetically GOOD.

I'm a huge BC history buff ("Whisperin' Jimmy" was a gold-rush-era constable in Barkerville about whom I'm writing a biography) and this is kind of a hobby-horse for me. I've been involved in planning for BC2008 - the sesquicentennial of our founding as a colony - and I've had this same debate over a perception of "too much native stuff." Well, I say that culture defines this rainforest we live in, and we should embrace it. I am mindful of the cultural appropriation argument, but I don't buy it - the native community is heavily involved in creating and sharing their art.

Go ahead, let me have it! :lol: