Of Lions' QBs, and Grey Cups

[WestCoastJoe]

IMHO, after training camp, the depth chart may well look like this:

1 Buck Pierce

2 Jarious Jackson

3 Gino Guidugli

4 New Blood

IMHO, Dave Dickenson's Hall of Fame career may be over. He might get his release from the Lions. Dave has his Grey Cup. He has done it all. The concussions he has had to survive, should now help him decide to retire, while his health is still as good as it is. He made it back onto the field this year when many thought it would not happen. Full credit to him.

IMHO Jarious gets a raise. Buck beats him out for starter in TC. Buck needs to learn to protect his body, not give his body up for one play. He has to protect himself for the team, and for his own longevity.

The Lions are in good shape. Do not despair.

How many Grey Cups did the powerful Alouettes win with Anthony Calvillo in his prime? Just one. How many Grey Cups did we win with Dave D as our main QB? Just one. IMHO Dave D has not been the same razor-sharp QB he once was since 2004. Too many damaging hits.

No one could say that we have had quarterbacking of the level of Warren Moon, when the Eskimos ran off that streak of Grey Cups. To do that, you need a superstar QB. The Lions' guys are not at that level now. To expect that we would have a bunch of Grey Cups already in the Buono era is unrealistic.

Dave D has virtually no mobility left. Jarious cannot shake his propensity for slow starts, and slips back into throwing uncatchable rockets. Buck cannot stay healthy. This is quarterback uncertainty. To have won as many games as we have is a testament to overall team ability. To win a bunch of Grey Cups, you need quarterback dominance.

The closest thing to a superstar QB in the league right now is Kerry Joseph. He gives that team confidence. Ricky Ray can be a superstar, but it looks like he does not have enough help from the players and coaches in Edmonton.

Our team, the Lions, will continue its regular season success. We will win more Grey Cups under Buono, but we will not be anything resembling a dominant dynasty unless a superstar QB rises out of our pack. Who knows? It might happen. Or it might not. But we will always be a contender, and a sometimes Grey Cup winner under this regime. Just as the Stampeders were under Buono previously. That is good enough for me.

Even Wally's West Coast Quarterback Factory cannot guarantee delivery on a superstar quarterback, and, without that, no dynasty, just a very strong contender, and sometimes winner, every year.

All of this, of course, IMHO.

[Blitz]

However it's easy to forget how long it took Joseph to get to this point. Still he only had a 58% completion average in the regular season. Jarious threw for a 54% completion rate, went 9-2 in his first 11 starts in the CFL after a four year layoff.

Buck Pierce was banged up this season but last year he led the league in passing percentage and was second in quarterback efficiency. I really don't care all that much for those stats as much as we were able to win games last year with him as a starter and he was able to get the football into the end zone.

Both have very little starting experience. Both could become superstars or one could. It's far too early to tell although the odds are that a real superstar quarterback doesn't come around that often. We don't really know how good they could be in the playoffs. They really haven't had much experience in the playoffs. They haven't even played a whole season of regular season games as starters. Their performance has really been outstanding for that very limited experience. It takes time to develop a quarterback.

However, we do know what DD can do and can't do and we know that we have to move on to the next stage. We've proven in 2004 with Printers, 2006 with Pierce, and 2007 with Jackson, that we can with with other quarterbacks beside Dickenson in the regular season. We've only won once with Dickenson in the playoffs. It's time to give one of these guys the full chance to see if we can do better.

When you've been a long time Leos fan you're thrilled with regular season success, over an extended period of time as we have been the past three seasons However, you don't play for regular season success. Players and coaches do this to win a championship.

I appreciate the regular season wins..they've been a treat,., but unfortunately, with the talent we've had over the past four seasons it's not good enough for me to have regular season success and then not be able to have that talent go further in the playoffs most of those seasons.

We've underperformed in the playoffs, except for last season's Western Final. Our offence so underperformed in last year's Grey Cup we were lucky to win it!! I can accept losing when you have a team that is an underdog but when you are the best team in the league for four seasons and you only win one Grey Cup we can't be totally happy with that result!!

[rb]

To be fair, Wally had a QB named Flutie for four years in Calgary... and they only went to the Grey Cup game once despite finishing in first place all four years with dominant regular seasons. So, although I don't agree with some of the decisions regarding his role this year, I won't put too much of the responsibility on DD.

Wally's teams have a consistent pattern of being excellent in the regular season but .500 in the playoffs. Can't think of anybody I'd rather have running my football operations than Wally. So I'm filing it in the Nobody's purrfect folder, looking forward to consistently being a top contender as long as Wally's in charge, and accepting that the consistency will set expectations that might not always be met in the playoffs. But it will be met often enough to win two or three times per decade, and that's pretty good.

EDIT: Whoops, Flutie took Cgy to the Grey Cup twice, didn't he? Lost to Baltimore the second time.

[WestCoastJoe]

We've underperformed in the playoffs, except for last season's Western Final. Our offence so underperformed in last year's Grey Cup we were lucky to win it!! I can accept losing when you have a team that is an underdog but when you are the best team in the league for four seasons and you only win one Grey Cup we can't be totally happy with that result!!

True that, Blitz.

Certainly not happy. Not despondent either.

Can one of our QBs get to that highest level? Dunno. We have to try it and see.

This was a season of adversity, of injuries, of allegations of dirty play. We overachieved in the regular season. We met our match in the playoffs.

In a quarterback-driven league, we had quite a lot of uncertainty this year. Not controversy, but injuries, inexperience, change. And from that uncertainty, great quarterbacking did not develop. We had good quarterbacking, but not great quarterbacking.

Without great quarterbacking, how often does a team win the Grey Cup? Not often, I would expect. Kerry Joseph and Kevin Glenn are capable of great quarterbacking on any particular day.

In view of all this, I am not particularly upset by our loss yesterday. It hurts like hell. But unexpected? Impossible? Not really.

[lion24]

I would like to see a full, healthy season from Pierce as he has shown that he could be a mobile QB and show the efficiency of Dickenson over a portion of a season. I still think he COULD be the heir apparent but it is yet to be seen if he can stay healthy for a full year.

[CartWheelFan]

Hey all,

I like the sound of the number 4 man on the depth chart. "New Blood". What a great football name!

Cheers,

James

I saw a movie with an actress in it named Moon Blood good once, however I don't think she would be a very good CFL quarterback.

[Soundy]

I saw a movie with an actress in it named Moon Blood good once, however I don't think she would be a very good CFL quarterback.

You mean her?


Of course, there's always this Moon as well:

[WestCoastJoe]

from Lowell's article today:

Dave D:

"I kind of know what I want to do. I know what I will and won't play for and who I will and won't play for. I don't know the direction they want to take," Dickenson said.

"If you're playing and part of an organization, you got to bring value to them.

"I 'd like to give it another shot with these guys, but I don't know where it's going to go with these four quarterbacks we have."

Jarious:

"I love this team," said Jackson. "I can say how I feel or what I want, but it might not mean anything because of the salary cap."

from Mike B's article today:

Dave D:

"It all depends on what Jarious decides to do," Dickenson acknowledged Monday on Garbage Bag Day, as the Lions packed up the remnants of their lockers following Sunday's 26-17 ouster by the Roughriders in the West Division final. "If Jarious decides to leave, that affects me. There's better odds of me coming back if he goes. You gotta try and find a salary structure that works."

Dave D:

"I don't know if they think Jarious is going to the next guy, if they want Buck to be that guy or they want to give me another year," says Dickenson, whose current contract runs through the 2009 season.

"There's a lot of imponderables there. I don't know if there's a right answer. Whatever they decide, all three of us would like to be The Guy here."

Asked if he would restructure his contract and take a pay cut to return, Dickenson told Jim Morris of Canadian Press: "I don't know what I'm going to take. I understand that, if you're going to get paid the way I get paid, you are the starter. You need to play the majority of the games. That didn't happen this year. I understand there will be issues [concussion history] there. I don't know what's going to happen."

"Buck played fairly well, but he had a lot of injury problems as well," Dickenson said. "What are they going to do with that situation? I don't know."

Jarious:

"That's why I work so hard in every offseason, to hopefully get that opportunity to be The Guy," Jackson said. "I was blessed to have that opportunity, and I had a great supporting cast around me to achieve those goals. I'm going to talk to Wally and see what his ideas are. I like this organization, I like this team. Honestly, though, whether I'm back is all related to Dave's contract, Buck's contract, and the cap. That's why I have an agent."

"I don't see why Buck wouldn't be back," Jackson said. "As far as Dave, that's up to him. He has a health issue he has to think about. That's going to be his call."

Buck:

"I'm tired of sitting out, I'm tired of being hurt. It's been an emotional season for me. My body hasn't felt well. Every time I got back into a rhythm, and started playing well, I got hurt. That's tough. We all want to be out there playing and contributing."

IMHO, as I have indicated:

Buck comes out of TC as the starter

Jarious gets a raise (1st backup)

Gino gets to hold the clipboard, and run the scout team, and be the next guy to challenge for a starter's position with the Lions

Dave retires: age, concussions, nothing left to prove, skills fading somewhat

[QB Club 63]

I think Dave Dickenson needs to sit down and have a long, frank talk with Matt Dunigan, and maybe include their wives and kids. Once they have compared experiences and symptoms I believe we will see Dave announce his retirement.

[Blitz]

Ed Wiles, who has been a huge Dickenson supporter seems to think it's time for the Leos to go in a new direction. In his Province article today, "Dickenson's Timem As A Starting Quarterback Is Over". Wiles said our Leos will get diminishing returns from the 35 year old quarterback. I was suprised that Wiles came out as strongly as he did in his article. Here is a part of it...

***********************************************************

Dave Dickenson is as decent and honourable a man as you'll find in professional sports and one day will breeze into the front door of the CFL Hall of Fame. But the Lions also face a critical situation with the veteran quarterback this offseason and it would seem the team can't move forward unless it is resolved.

Dickenson turns 35 in January and his history of concussions needs no further comment here. That is enough of a concern to the Lions, but his performance in Sunday's Western final should have set off alarms throughout the organization. He was tentative. He looked confused.

Dickenson's whole game is built on mental acuity, but he looked lost on Sunday and, despite Wally Buono's eternal confidence in him, he couldn't deliver when even an average performance might have been enough.

Given his three-plus-month layoff this season and the protection he was getting, some part of that is understandable.

But the Lions are also entering a phase of diminishing returns with Dickenson and have a good, young quarterback in Buck Pierce waiting and another solid option in free agent-to-be Jarious Jackson. If the cost of bringing back Dickenson for his last season is Jackson, then it's simply not worth it.

[Tighthead]

I would sooner regret letting DD go elsewhere than regret keeping him on.

[FINELION77]

no dissin 2 Blitz but you are a has been and those still playin have 2 deal with TODAY HERE AND NOW! you think it's easy upholding a GREY CUP CAMPIANSHIP and doin it all again? try it I dare you ! I double Dare you! let the stats tell you the chances!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's easy to critisize, but harder 2 be in our shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm hurt, i'm wounded but I will be back 4 another victory!
BCLIONSRULECFL2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WestCoastJoe]

I have no preference between Buck and Jarious. Whichever comes out of training camp as the starter is fine with me.

They both have their strengths, and both have not reached their potential yet.

IMHO Buck has to modify his style somewhat to keep himself healthy. He is too willing to sacrifice his body for the team. What he needs to do is protect his body for the team.

IMHO Jarious needs to continue to develop in keeping the game simple. Make your read and make the throw. If he can get his anxious starts under control he can be gangbusters, as we have seen, mostly in the second half of games.

Gino has potential as well.

Dave D might surprise us and keep himself in the mix as well, but my guess is that will not happen.

[FINELION77]

No dis -respect but let's be honest here! Dave is the smartest most experianced most seasoned QB that any team could ever hope 2 have! however given his past injuries he is only 1 hard hit 2 the head away from- retirement! 2 win against all odds! he will not get up like our Jason CLAR! does (no hope in hell) and as much as I hate 2 admit! the Lions deserve better! the 3 QB thinggy is alright during regular season games but in playoffs you need 2 rely on a leader who is a proven warrior who can lead them thru hell and back and who they will follow into the greatest depts of hell! ( the team looked for that leader Sunday and he was not there hense we fell, we weakened , we eventually gave up despite what we haven't done all season! we fell victim to a team we could have easily defeated!)I beleieved J.J could do that but Wally panicked and chose otherwise! and if the team has no leader to carry them into battle thus they will most certainly fall! As much as I love you Wally B. you made a fatal Error! I respect Dave, Luv Dave! but Dave is the weak link for our organization! let him go and we will be strong and overcome the mighty green and white! (any arguments are greatly welcomed) call it drama but the truth does lays there somewhere!