Geroy Whining Again!!

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Blitz
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How come when Geroy points out that the offence changed too much, he's whining (a term I find a little disrespectful for a future Wall Of Famer) but when Dave says the same thing - or even more inflammatory - he's "honest," "insightful," and a "good interview

Not from me. I was critical when Dickenson made his comments after our opening win in Toronto! I don't believe players should criticize their coaches to the media, especially only after their first league game and it was a win. They should have been congratulating them!!
yeah? How many SHORT fields did the D and ST's give our Offense this year? A hell of a lot more than last year.
Wrong!!
Jackson said he was frustrated by being yanked early
Jackson said he was 'surprised' by being yanked early. He also said it was Wally's team.

If this was an isolated incident by Geroy it wouldn't be a big deal. However it isn't! The fact is that Chapdelaine unexpecty left. Wally went inside to Kruck and Dorazio because that was his best choice. It was better to have coaches who were familiar with the offence... to have some continuity from the previous season. At the same time there was also a recognition of a need to change the offence. That didn't come from Kruck and Dorazio. It came from Wally who recognized that the offence needed some changes. Hufnagel was brought in as a consultant and also discussed making some changes to utilizing a running game more as did Wally.
Some players didn't like it!!

I recognize, even though I am not a fan of The Chap (and neither were his players in Calgary in his first stint there as an offensive coordinator nor the players in Edmonton) but with our Leos I know Chapdelaine had his loyalists such as Dickenson, Clermont, and Reid.

Nothing wrong with that but from the first game Kruck and Dorazio were being criticized for runing the football in a win in Toronto because they chose, leading in the game, to run the football, on second and eight!

However The Chap was gone so how did it make matters better to keep on saying to the media how much they missed him?? In fact it was insulting to the guys who were now replacing The Chap (who chose to leave) They were also indirectly criticizing Wally.. because they blamed him for The Chap leaving.

There is no question that Simon was an undermining force on the team during the first half of the season. He also hurt his own play with his attitude. Geroy is a very, very talented reciever. However, I'm not a jock sniffer. Because Geroy is so talented and our best receiver doesn't give him a free pass. The fact is that he doesn't get doesn't get called on his behavior. That happens too often with star players.

Coaches can often have a difficult time dealing with them, teamates have to put up with them, and the 'star' syndrome means fans forgive them of anything as long as they are playing an important role in helping their team win. However, what a coach can't say to the media or another player can't say to the media.... at least I have the opportunity to say on this website, whether fans agree with me or not. I would be happy if Geroy read it in fact. A problem is the quote on this thread that 'says Geroy is a star player and can say anything to the media he wants". That kind of player worship only contributes to the problem!!

Geroy needs, quite frankly, to try to work with his coaches much better than he has this season. His attitude at the beginning of this season quite frankly sucked without even giving them an opportunity. He also made it quite clear what he thought of the changes by his behavior at practices. I thought he was over it, when he decided to start playing football in the second half of the season.

However, I guess, because we were winning and Geroy was also catching footballs again, everything was ok but one disappointing loss and suddenly he reverts back.

I thought Kruck and Dorazio did a good job overall in their first season as co-offensive coordinators. Both have been with Wally for a long time. They had to work with three different quarterbacks, deal with some of their star players crying like girls because The Chap was gone, while also changing the style of offence to making us more of a running team. Wally shared the job, quite frankly, because he needed Kruck to call the plays while he needed Dorazio's background knowledge. Saskatchewan also used two co-offensive coordinators for their offence this season and they're in the Grey Cup game.

It wasn't the two offensive coordinator system that hurt us this season. What hurt us this season was a few of our offensive players attitudes to having 'Chap' gone and working with two new coordinators. It likely would have been worse if Wally had brought in someone from the outside to run the offence. Our players never threw The Chap under the bus after our Western Final loss in 2005 and our offence was just as predictable that game as well.

Geroy had the choice to keep it in the locker room. He hasn't. I've justpointed out the general problem and it's been an obvious one to anyone who watches this team closely!! I haven't provided details.

Of course, you can't really ask Geroy to grow up. He's still playing a kids game for money but you can at least ask him to be respectful!! You win by pulling together! We're not in the Grey Cup because we didn't and the signs were there at training camp. We had more lousy practices this season than in Wally's other year's with this team put together. At the same time we won 14 games. Our coaches had a lot to do with those 14 wins and Dorazio was in his office at 2:30 a.m. every morning working his butt off!! He deserves more respect. If Geroy isn't happy with the offence he can talk to Wally and his offensive coordinators. He can also work harder at practices and stop sulking next year so that he gets off to a much better start!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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rb
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Blitz wrote:
Jackson said he was frustrated by being yanked early
Jackson said he was 'surprised' by being yanked early. He also said it was Wally's team.
"I didn't think it would happen when it happened, but it did," said Jarious Jackson, the Lions' starter who was yanked late in the second quarter of the Leos' 26-17 loss to the Saskatchewan Roughriders. "I can be frustrated because I've helped this team get to the point where we are now. I'm not mad but it's disappointing."
Blitz
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"I didn't think it would happen when it happened, but it did," said Jarious Jackson, the Lions' starter who was yanked late in the second quarter of the Leos' 26-17 loss to the Saskatchewan Roughriders. "I can be frustrated because I've helped this team get to the point where we are now. I'm not mad but it's disappointing
Thanks rb!! I was reading a different quote and I hadn't read or heard that quote from Jarious!!

With regard to Geroy Simon's quote he said "We knew there would be change [from 2006], but I don't know if everything had to change."

Everything didn't change in the Leos offence. In fact, it was a lot of the old Chap offence and that's something that Wally has said as well. They just added some running plays to compliment the inside zone run they ran last season and emphasized the running game more. We also went play action more, which was understandable, based upon the success of our running attack and of course we went two back set sometimes but only occasionally.

When Geroy said "but I don't know if everything had to change" he obviously wasn't referring to our use of three quarterbacks, which was necessary. He was referring to the offensive structure. While that offensive structure did change it didn't change dramatically. We just ran the football more. We used most of the same passing plays as last season.

In fact we moved back to the Chap offence even more in the last few games of the season. We used less play action. We almost abandoned the two back set. We went to more crossing patterns. We stopped rolling out and became a pocket passing team again. I'm not sure if that was because we were preparing the offence for the possibility of Dickenson's return or whether our passing game had come more to life in the second half of the season and therefore were using it more, or whether they were catering more to guys like Geroy for offensive team harmony.

However, Geroy's comment, said at the same time his referring to "Jaques' could only be construed as a criticism of our offensive coaches and indirectly to Wally and even to Hufnagel, who was brought in as a consultant, regarding our offence, prior to the season.

It's been said, posters have different opinions of it. I've made my comments and stand behind them. With regard to the comments about finding a new offensive coordinator for next season there aren't a lot out there who know the CFL or who could come in here and be able to do the job that our present coaches are doing.

I certainly don't want Chapdelaine back and I doubt Wally would want him back. At the same time there are still a few Leos offensive players who still cling to him, dispite the Chap's problems in Edmonton with his players this season. Edmonton didn't fire a guy they were bringing in as a potential replacement for Macioccia after one season unless there were serious problems and there were.

I hope that Wally sticks with Kruck and Dorazio for next season. The changes they brought in were good ones. I was disappointed they didn't stick with them right to the end. There were adjustment problems with players who were used to a spread offence and benefited from it. Geroy won his MOP award playing in it. Quarterbacks who like to pass a lot like the spread and receivers get more opportunties to catch the football in the spread. However, guys like Joe Smith won't become leading rushers in the league in a "Chap style offence.

However, most CFL teams are moving away from the spread and for good reasons... and emphasizing the running game more. The one good thing was that Jason Clermont signed with us again. If he had been unhappy with the offence he certainly had other options. I think his signing was a very positive sign!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Tighthead
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[quote="Blitz
In fact we moved back to the Chap offence even more in the last few games of the season. We used less play action. We almost abandoned the two back set. We went to more crossing patterns. We stopped rolling out and became a pocket passing team again. I'm not sure if that was because we were preparing the offence for the possibility of Dickenson's return or whether our passing game had come more to life in the second half of the season and therefore were using it more, or whether they were catering more to guys like Geroy for offensive team harmony.[/quote]

I feel like JJ was running DD's playbook on Sunday, and that didn't do anyone any favours.
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PigSkin_53
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Blitz wrote: However, most CFL teams are moving away from the spread and for good reasons... and emphasizing the running game more. The one good thing was that Jason Clermont signed with us again. If he had been unhappy with the offence he certainly had other options. I think his signing was a very positive sign!!

Amen to that Blitz!
"Just Win Baby" ~ Al Davis
Stui

Blitz wrote:
"I didn't think it would happen when it happened, but it did," said Jarious Jackson, the Lions' starter who was yanked late in the second quarter of the Leos' 26-17 loss to the Saskatchewan Roughriders. "I can be frustrated because I've helped this team get to the point where we are now. I'm not mad but it's disappointing
Thanks rb!! I was reading a different quote and I hadn't read or heard that quote from Jarious!!

With regard to Geroy Simon's quote he said "We knew there would be change [from 2006], but I don't know if everything had to change."

Everything didn't change in the Leos offence. In fact, it was a lot of the old Chap offence and that's something that Wally has said as well. They just added some running plays to compliment the inside zone run they ran last season and emphasized the running game more. We also went play action more, which was understandable, based upon the success of our running attack and of course we went two back set sometimes but only occasionally.

When Geroy said "but I don't know if everything had to change" he obviously wasn't referring to our use of three quarterbacks, which was necessary. He was referring to the offensive structure. While that offensive structure did change it didn't change dramatically. We just ran the football more. We used most of the same passing plays as last season.

In fact we moved back to the Chap offence even more in the last few games of the season. We used less play action. We almost abandoned the two back set. We went to more crossing patterns. We stopped rolling out and became a pocket passing team again. I'm not sure if that was because we were preparing the offence for the possibility of Dickenson's return or whether our passing game had come more to life in the second half of the season and therefore were using it more, or whether they were catering more to guys like Geroy for offensive team harmony.

However, Geroy's comment, said at the same time his referring to "Jaques' could only be construed as a criticism of our offensive coaches and indirectly to Wally and even to Hufnagel, who was brought in as a consultant, regarding our offence, prior to the season.

It's been said, posters have different opinions of it. I've made my comments and stand behind them. With regard to the comments about finding a new offensive coordinator for next season there aren't a lot out there who know the CFL or who could come in here and be able to do the job that our present coaches are doing.

I certainly don't want Chapdelaine back and I doubt Wally would want him back. At the same time there are still a few Leos offensive players who still cling to him, dispite the Chap's problems in Edmonton with his players this season. Edmonton didn't fire a guy they were bringing in as a potential replacement for Macioccia after one season unless there were serious problems and there were.

I hope that Wally sticks with Kruck and Dorazio for next season. The changes they brought in were good ones. I was disappointed they didn't stick with them right to the end. There were adjustment problems with players who were used to a spread offence and benefited from it. Geroy won his MOP award playing in it. Quarterbacks who like to pass a lot like the spread and receivers get more opportunties to catch the football in the spread. However, guys like Joe Smith won't become leading rushers in the league in a "Chap style offence.

However, most CFL teams are moving away from the spread and for good reasons... and emphasizing the running game more. The one good thing was that Jason Clermont signed with us again. If he had been unhappy with the offence he certainly had other options. I think his signing was a very positive sign!!
I get/understand your points of view. The only thing I would, well, suggest, is that you stay away from stating what someone _really_ saying, or what their _true_ underlying meaning was, when they say something, by trying to read into it. That's purely speculative, and by nature arguments based on speculation are flawed, as you can't possibly know what the individual was meaning, without getting it straight from them.
(just as examples, and not specifically anything to do with Geroy)
However, Geroy's comment, said at the same time his referring to "Jaques' could only be construed as....
While you are entitled to it, that's only an opinion/speculation.
When Geroy said "but I don't know if everything had to change" he obviously wasn't referring to our use of three quarterbacks...
Quite possible, yeah, I'd agree, but that too is speculative, and both of our opinions.


But that was last week. We could sit and nit-pick every play that happened. It still won't change the fact that we lost, and our season is over, so let's see what changes are made for next season, and where we go with them.
FINELION77
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You have know idea the frustrationg G feels after being a star last year and having to come off a back injury this year! he wants to do better every season and set goals for himself 2 surpass! he's dealing with alot and has stepped up 2 the plate! he has been with the club since 2001 and has done amazin things! nobody complains when he's in the zone! back off and give him the respect he deserves!
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No Ordinary Joe
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I understand that Geroy is not a favorite of your's by any means, Blitz, but Geroy has earned the right in this league to say what he wants on any subject he wants and be afforded a certain level of respect no matter how much we might disagree with it. When a guy has won Grey Cups and a Most Outstanding Player award and has established himself among the very best in the league, he's allowed a bit of leeway when it comes to expressing his opinions if you ask me. Calling him a whiner, a cancer and a bad role model and teammate smacks of disrespect. Surely you can disagree with his approach and his take without the slanderous remarks you've made of him. Keep in mind that players do actually lurk these boards and even post on occasion, I doubt that any of them would appreciate seeing their teammates or themselves referred to in the manner you've referred to Geroy in numerous posts. There's a lot of people who actually agree with what Geroy said in terms of our offence being inconsistent this year, however, there's still some (yourself included) that disagree with that. It doesn't make it wrong and I'm sure that there's guys on the team who disagree with Geroy's take on the season that was, I doubt that on a 46-man roster that there's 46 identical opinions, so a few guys having an opinion that is different than your's shouldn't mean they should be victims of finger pointing and accusations.
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I tended to agree with what Geroy said, and I'm re-watching the game (recorded on PVR...it's so depressing), the Leos just could not get anything started. The DB's left their guys wide open, After Sherko left, the O-line began to turn into a seive, which got horrible when Plante came in (though I won't blame Plante for it...hell, he was a junior last year!). DD was back to his hug the ball and get sacked attitude instead of throwing it away, which would have kept us out of those 2nd/3rd and REAL longs. JJ was obviously nervous again, and was over/under throwing consistently.

The bright spots were Ian Smart and Cam Wake, but two guys cannot win a game, no matter how good they are.

Geroy was right, but Blitz is right insofar as Geroy's attitude in the first half of the season is concerned.
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David
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Blitz wrote:However, Geroy's comment, said at the same time his referring to "Jaques' could only be construed as a criticism of our offensive coaches and indirectly to Wally and even to Hufnagel, who was brought in as a consultant, regarding our offence, prior to the season.
I believe he only mentioned Jacques by name as the reporter asked him (IIRC) "what do you think about Jacques Chapdelaine being available?," or "do you miss Jacques Chapdelaine?" I don't remember the exact question but I am quite sure he was directly referenced.

DH 8)
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David wrote:
Blitz wrote:However, Geroy's comment, said at the same time his referring to "Jaques' could only be construed as a criticism of our offensive coaches and indirectly to Wally and even to Hufnagel, who was brought in as a consultant, regarding our offence, prior to the season.
I believe he only mentioned Jacques by name as the reporter asked him (IIRC) "what do you think about Jacques Chapdelaine being available?," or "do you miss Jacques Chapdelaine?" I don't remember the exact question but I am quite sure he was directly referenced.

DH 8)
That was my original point - a lot of the time, these kinds of comments are taken completely out of context, and oftentimes we don't even hear the question that led to a particular comment.
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I am going to speak in support of Blitz, who is more than able to defend himself.

Blitz is always polite to the people that post, even to people that take shots at his opinions, and disagree strongly with him. He responds in a low-key manner, with respect and consideration for their opinions.

He knows more about football than anyone else I see posting here on Lionbackers, and that is saying something, because this site is loaded with knowledgeable football fans, and ex-coaches. With his background and connections in football, Blitz is also privy to a lot of information that most of us do not have.

I think Blitz is entitled to say what he has said, and I think there is some support for his views. Some people would be reluctant to voice any support, because of the inevitable attacks that come in return. Some players are lightning rods. They are star players. They have huge support from their loyal fans, and they have their critics. In some cases, the fans just do not want to hear any of those criticisms.

Keep in mind that we are a team here also. Let's be careful about attacking each other, just as the Lions have to be careful about attacking each other.
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A choise and rare smackerel of wisdom Joe, shaped with an open mind and an appetite for the truth of things, which are sometimes hidden from the public eye.

Blitz has indeed knowledge from friends of lofty sources! :yes:
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WestCoastJoe wrote:I am going to speak in support of Blitz, who is more than able to defend himself.

Blitz is always polite to the people that post, even to people that take shots at his opinions, and disagree strongly with him. He responds in a low-key manner, with respect and consideration for their opinions.

He knows more about football than anyone else I see posting here on Lionbackers, and that is saying something, because this site is loaded with knowledgeable football fans, and ex-coaches. With his background and connections in football, Blitz is also privy to a lot of information that most of us do not have.

I think Blitz is entitled to say what he has said, and I think there is some support for his views. Some people would be reluctant to voice any support, because of the inevitable attacks that come in return. Some players are lightning rods. They are star players. They have huge support from their loyal fans, and they have their critics. In some cases, the fans just do not want to hear any of those criticisms.

Keep in mind that we are a team here also. Let's be careful about attacking each other, just as the Lions have to be careful about attacking each other.
I'd have to go back through the thread, butI don't think anyone is attacking Blitz. We simply don't agree with his POV on this. If anything, the thread title is a bit of an attack on Simon, the way it's worded.
Enough is enough.
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PigSkin_53 wrote:A choise and rare smackerel of wisdom Joe, shaped with an open mind and an appetite for the truth of things, which are sometimes hidden from the public eye.

Blitz has indeed knowledge from friends of lofty sources! :yes:
Another convoluted post from you PG53. And a very backhanded compliment to Joe by saying that the wisdom is rare. Kind of goes against the grain of the post you are agreeing with, doesn't it?

Also, just because someone has coached or "knows people" does not mean that his opinions are more valid than anyone else's here. If he has "hidden sources" he should quote them or leave them out of the discussion. His posts should be judged and responded to on their content only. He quotes the newspaper that we all can read as the basis for this thread. He offers an opinion on what he has read, which we all can agree with as we choose to, or not.

In the meantime, you could use spell check, and brush up on your grammar, so that the intent of your posts is not in question.
Enough is enough.
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