Why the Liberals need a Margaret Thatcher - Brian Crowley

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WestCoastJoe
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Gwynne Dyer is not everyone's cup of tea, but I oftentimes read him. Born in Newfoundland, he has served in the Naval Reserves of Canada, the United States and Great Britain. He has been a lecturer at a number of military colleges. His articles on world events appear in many papers around the world. I have seen him speak on two occasions. He makes appearances at universities and high schools across Canada, invited by Social Studies and History departments (usually for a fee). One would have to say that his positions are leftist, controversial, and I would add: surprising, thought-provoking and interesting.

Here is his take on the legacy of Margaret Thatcher.

I don't really feel like debating his views or Thatcher's. But I post this article in recognition of the woman on her passing.
Margaret Thatcher ignored the poor and won elections

by Gwynne Dyer on Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52 am

The Iron Lady was 87.

Margaret Thatcher was the woman who began the shift to the right that has affected almost all the countries of the West in the past three decades. She died in London today (April 8), 34 years after she became Britain’s first female prime minister and 23 years after she was driven from office, at the age of 87. But it is an open question whether even the crash of 2008 and the ensuing prolonged recession have finally ended the long reign of her ideas in western politics.

“This woman is headstrong, obstinate and dangerously self-opinionated,” wrote some minion in the personnel department of British chemical giant ICI, rejecting young Margaret Roberts’s application for a job as research chemist in 1948. She was fresh out of Oxford University, 23 years old, brimming with self-confidence, and absolutely full of opinions. She probably frightened the job interviewer half to death.

But she landed a job with a plastics company in Colchester in 1949. She joined the Conservative Party and stood for parliament in the 1950 election (she was the youngest candidate ever), and married businessman Denis Thatcher in 1951. Margaret Thatcher, as she then became, finally made it into parliament in the 1959 election.

She entered the cabinet of Conservative prime minister Edward Heath in 1970 as the “statutory female” (as he gallantly put it). But she had the last laugh in 1975, replacing Heath as party leader after the Conservatives lost the 1974 election. She took a very hard line from the start, both in domestic and in foreign politics. Her open hostility to the Soviet Union led a Soviet newspaper in 1976 to dub her the “Iron Lady”, a title in which she reveled.

Her real impact, however, was in British domestic politics, where she broke the welfare-state consensus that had dominated all the major parties for the previous 30 years. “It is our duty to look after ourselves,” she said, and the political orthodoxy trembled before her onslaught.

An American diplomat in London, in a confidential assessment of the new Conservative leader in 1975, captured the essence of Thatcher’s revolutionary politics. She was, he wrote, the “genuine voice of a beleaguered bourgeoisie, anxious about its eroding economic power and determined to arrest society's seemingly inexorable trend towards collectivism.”

That was what carried her into office in the 1979 election, and as prime minister she acted on her convictions. After she had fought and won the Falklands War against long odds in 1982 her popularity was unassailable, and she used it to break the power of the trade unions and privatise state-owned industries. More than that, she made free-market ideology for all intents and purposes the state religion.

So it remained for 30 years, long after her harsh and confrontational style had lost her the support even of her own party. She was ousted as Conservative Party leader and prime minister by her own colleagues in 1990, but the Labour governments of 1997-2010 were also in thrall to her ideas. Their influence abroad, particularly in the United States, was equally great.

Yet her greatest contribution to politics, and the foundation of the right’s political success over recent decades, was not ideological but tactical. She was the first politician to grasp the fact that with the decline of the old working class, it had become possible to win elections on a platform that simply ignored the wishes and needs of the poor. There weren’t as many of them as there used to be, and the poorest among them usually failed to vote at all.

This insight was key to the success of president Ronald Reagan in the United States in the 1980s, and to the triumph of conservative parties in many European countries in the same period. It continues to be a major factor in the calculations of parties both on the right and on the left down to the present day: you cannot count on the poor to win an election for you.

Margaret Thatcher was made a baroness after she relinquished her seat in the House of Commons in 1992, and continued to sit in the House of Lords until ill health forced her to withdraw from public life entirely in 2002. In her last years she suffered from dementia, and she finally succumbed to a stroke.

Her influence lives on, at least for the moment, but it may not last much longer. The powerful middle class on which she founded her political strategy has been hollowed out by the very success of the free-market policies she promoted. Once you allow for the effects of inflation, average middle class income in the United States, for example, has not grown at all in the past three decades.

The time may be coming when gaining the votes of the poor, including the growing numbers of the “new poor”, will once again be essential to win elections.


Gwynne Dyer is an independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries.
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WestCoastJoe
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The Iron Lady ...
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notahomer
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As a youngster growing up here in BC, I always wondered if the 'Iron Lady' and Grace McCarthy were connected. But McCarthy never got that chance to actually take the leaders chair. No disrespect intended, I didn't agree with a lot of what either did in politics but had to respect both for showing such leadership in what was (IS?) such a male dominated area.....
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She is certainly is a polarizing individual. You either like her or you don't
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Sir Purrcival
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Maybe had the same hair dresser?

I was in England a lot during her reign there. I think the best you could say about her was that you knew what you were getting. She was tough, savvy and a shrewd stateswoman but she lacked a little finesses when it came to dealing with her own people after at time. Her style was more sledgehammer than feather which has it's uses at times (see Falklands) but her demanding style proved to be a bit much for her own party who basically revolted against her near the end of her political career. I don't think she ever really got over that. Too much like betrayal in her eyes I suspect. However 3 consecutive terms is quite a legacy in it's own right. I don't think any other Prime Minister did it in England in the 20th century
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Sir Purrcival wrote:Maybe had the same hair dresser?

I was in England a lot during her reign there. I think the best you could say about her was that you knew what you were getting. She was tough, savvy and a shrewd stateswoman but she lacked a little finesses when it came to dealing with her own people after at time. Her style was more sledgehammer than feather which has it's uses at times (see Falklands) but her demanding style proved to be a bit much for her own party who basically revolted against her near the end of her political career. I don't think she ever really got over that. Too much like betrayal in her eyes I suspect. However 3 consecutive terms is quite a legacy in it's own right. I don't think any other Prime Minister did it in England in the 20th century
I think you could say a lot better about her than "you knew what you were getting." She is given credit by most economists and political scientists for saving the UK from really dire economic and societal decline--into irrelevance, this being the end-product of the poor state the UK was left in after WW II. She is credited with bringing the UK back as an economic power and with the greatly increased prosperity among the citizenry. As for being dispatched by one's own party after a number of years, this is certainly not unique to Thatcher and is a longstanding British tradition that has played out with many PMs there, including recent Labour PMs Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, and Conservative Ted Heath, who was ousted by Thatcher herself. Although I suspect despised by the far left (she did considerably reduce the influence of the trade unions that were helping to wreck the economy), she is held in sufficiently high regard in the UK that I believe that her state funerals (I think I read that there will be two) will rival the commemoration of the death of Diana. Gwynne Dyer's thesis that she won elections by ignoring the poor is typical of what you'd expect from the far left, and ignores the fact that perhaps she won her three elections because what she was proposing for the UK was a template for economic success and increased prosperity, and that she proved to be a very decisive and effective leader.
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A relic of a generation of leaders that operated with callous disregard the consequences of their politics had on the majority of their citizens, I'll gladly dance on her grave and have a hearty dinner in celebration, just as I did when Reagan shuffled off this mortal coil. Though this time it'll be fish and chips.
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cromartie wrote:A relic of a generation of leaders that operated with callous disregard the consequences of their politics had on the majority of their citizens, I'll gladly dance on her grave and have a hearty dinner in celebration, just as I did when Reagan shuffled off this mortal coil. Though this time it'll be fish and chips.
Yup...she sure was a disaster. :wink: Oddly--if, in fact, she was so dreadful--a 2004 national survey (more than a decade after Thatcher left office) conducted by Ipsos Mori (a UK survey firm) polled 139 British academic experts in British politics, asking them to rank-order the 20 British PMs of the 20th century, and Thatcher was ranked 4th of the 20, after Attlee, Churchill, and Lloyd George (ranked 1, 2, and 3, respectively), and well ahead of such labour heavyweights as Tony Blair, Harold Wilson, and James Callaghan. The respondents were asked to rate the 20 PMs as successful or unsuccessful on a 10-point scale. In the last few days since her death, she has been tabbed by many as Britain's greatest peacetime PM of the 20th century. This is close to the Ipsos Mori result as both Churchill and Lloyd George were wartime PMs.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/tha ... print.html
Thatcher’s life and death divide Britain

By Anthony Faiola, Updated: Wednesday, April 10, 11:20 AM

LONDON — When Ronald Reagan departed this life, Americans joined in an outpouring of bipartisan mourning that ranged from genuine grief to grudging respect for the memory of the Gipper. On this side of the Atlantic, the reaction to the death of his political soul mate, Margaret Thatcher, could not be more different.

Rather than unite Britain, Thatcher’s death appears to be opening old wounds. Opponents have launched a social-media campaign to promote the “Wizard of Oz” song “Ding-Dong! The Witch is Dead” (No. 10 on the British charts Wednesday), as well as Elvis Costello’s 1989 anthem “Tramp the Dirt Down,” on which he sings of dancing on Thatcher’s grave. The city of Birmingham, a bastion of the working classes, has refused to fly the Union Jack at half-staff. Various groups have pledged protests to coincide with the Iron Lady’s elaborate funeral next week.

In a few blue-collar neighborhoods across Britain, opponents held impromptu street parties to celebrate her death and are planning more to mark her funeral. In the hours after she died, the Telegraph — the leading conservative broadsheet here — was forced to close its online comments section because of a barrage of vitriol posted by detractors.

Noting the Thatcher years of the 1980s as a time when British progressives and conservatives seemed like two tribes gone to war, Jonathan Freedland, a columnist for the Guardian, wrote, “Strangely, it feels like that again now — two tribes battling over the memory of the fiercest warrior they ever knew.”

A cultural divide

The division here offers telling differences not only between Reagan and Thatcher — larger-than-life conservatives whose legacies are inexorably linked — but also between the United States and Britain, which tend to view their elected leaders in very different ways.

Thatcher and Reagan shared strategic visions of Western military might and an economic philosophy of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Yet Thatcher, many argue, was relatively more transformative and thus earned more enemies. Yes, Reagan broke the air-traffic controllers and promoted trickle-down economics. But Thatcher inherited a country of state-run industries, used steely will to bust organized labor and changed the nature of grass-roots politics forever. Rather than fine-tune, her free-market push reinvented the British economy.

And then there were their personalities, with Reagan’s naturally amiable and Thatcher’s hard-edged. Her image as unyielding never really softened even as she, like Reagan, fell into a long struggle with dementia that might have otherwise cultivated empathy from old foes.

“The battles Thatcher fought with the left in Britain were larger, more dramatic, than Reagan’s in the United States,” said James Forsyth, political editor of the magazine the Spectator. “And if you look at how Reagan campaigned, he had a genial side that Thatcher didn’t.”

The across-the-aisle accolades for Reagan upon his death in 2004 were, some argue, one of the last hurrahs of a post- Sept. 11, 2001, bipartisanship that has largely faded in Washington. Yet observers say Americans tend to view presidents in far more revered terms than the British do prime ministers. Winston Churchill was and remains a national hero, but it is not in the British tradition to name airports, buildings or even streets after the residents of No. 10 Downing Street. With few exceptions, Britons reserve their reverence for the queen.

For segments of British society, that made the grocer’s daughter who became this nation’s most transformative peacetime prime minister more the head of a Conservative government than a leader of all Britons. Her most divisive political ideals — of austerity and small government, of an end to welfare and an independent role for Britain in Europe — are issues that have again surged to the forefront of the national debate.

James Dolman, 46, a Scottish writer and activist, joined an impromptu party Monday to celebrate Thatcher’s death in Glasgow’s George Square. He said revelers danced in the streets with open bottles of champagne.

“The deep division she caused has been reflected in her death,” he said. “She caused the shipyard to shut down. The economic base of the whole city was ripped apart, and our whole lifestyle and culture went with it. It was annihilated.”

And yet flash polls suggest those Britons cluttering the Twittersphere with cheer at her death represent a vocal minority. An ICM Research poll Monday suggested that 50 percent of respondents viewed Thatcher as a net positive for Britain, compared with 34 percent who saw her as a negative. Her son on Wednesday thanked those who continue to pay tribute.

A deeper debate

Beyond the vitriol, a more thoughtful debate has begun. The rock-and-rollish British comedian Russell Brand, no fan of Thatcher, wrote a piece Tuesday recalling his recent sighting of the late prime minister looking like “a pale phantom” as she “feebly” watered flowers in a park. He suggested the woman who had struck fear and loathing in the hearts of her opponents had actually departed long ago.

“If you opposed Thatcher’s ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love,” Brand wrote. “If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one’s enemies.”

On Wednesday, members of Parliament offered up a marathon session to her legacy, with Prime Minister David Cameron, a fellow Conservative, saying, “Let this be her epitaph: She made the country great again.”

Ed Miliband, leader of the opposition Labor Party, said, “She was right to recognize our economy needed to change.” But he added that “it would be dishonest and not in keeping with the principles that Margaret Thatcher stood for, even on this day, not to be open with this house about the strong opinions and the deep divisions there were, and are, over what she did.”

Eliza Mackintosh contributed to this report.
No comment nor debate by me. But an interesting read. As has been noted, she was a polarizing figure.
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South Pender wrote:
Sir Purrcival wrote:Maybe had the same hair dresser?

I was in England a lot during her reign there. I think the best you could say about her was that you knew what you were getting. She was tough, savvy and a shrewd stateswoman but she lacked a little finesses when it came to dealing with her own people after at time. Her style was more sledgehammer than feather which has it's uses at times (see Falklands) but her demanding style proved to be a bit much for her own party who basically revolted against her near the end of her political career. I don't think she ever really got over that. Too much like betrayal in her eyes I suspect. However 3 consecutive terms is quite a legacy in it's own right. I don't think any other Prime Minister did it in England in the 20th century
I think you could say a lot better about her than "you knew what you were getting." She is given credit by most economists and political scientists for saving the UK from really dire economic and societal decline--into irrelevance, this being the end-product of the poor state the UK was left in after WW II. She is credited with bringing the UK back as an economic power and with the greatly increased prosperity among the citizenry. As for being dispatched by one's own party after a number of years, this is certainly not unique to Thatcher and is a longstanding British tradition that has played out with many PMs there, including recent Labour PMs Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, and Conservative Ted Heath, who was ousted by Thatcher herself. Although I suspect despised by the far left (she did considerably reduce the influence of the trade unions that were helping to wreck the economy), she is held in sufficiently high regard in the UK that I believe that her state funerals (I think I read that there will be two) will rival the commemoration of the death of Diana. Gwynne Dyer's thesis that she won elections by ignoring the poor is typical of what you'd expect from the far left, and ignores the fact that perhaps she won her three elections because what she was proposing for the UK was a template for economic success and increased prosperity, and that she proved to be a very decisive and effective leader.
OK, I'll give you that, it isn't the "Best" you could say. You could say a lot worse too. She was a very polarizing figure and it really depends on what side of the fence you fall on. There wasn't much tear shedding and hand wringing when she was summarily dumped by her own party or the populace at large. I know, I was there. At the time her accomplishments were overshadowed by her "my way or the highway" style and you did know what you were getting with her. "a tough, savvy and shrewd stateswoman" who seemed to lack some finesses when in came to dealing with members of her own party. I"m not trying to take her accomplishments away but I'm not going to paint a picture that is all flowers and honey bees either. I won't debate what she did or didn't resurrect. That is a matter that will never be completely agreed upon. What I will say is that she was the right person at the right time much like Winston Churchill. She didn't choose the Soviet Union falling when it did, she didn't choose the Argentinians attacking the Falklands when they did. She did a remarkable job of dealing with cards she was dealt, as good as anybody could but take away those seminal events and her legacy changes quite a bit.
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I think you'll find that many, maybe even most, of the greatest political leaders were somewhat polarizing and were hated by many. Lincoln--judged generally to be the US's greatest president--was hated by millions, and FDR--judged generally to be the 2nd-greatest US president--was despised by pretty-well all Republicans. It's not how much they were loved that determines a leader's value and legacy, but what they did to advance the fortunes of their country and deal with national crises as they arose. Lots of the greatest leaders in history were complete bastards in person. In my opinion, whether Thatcher was sometimes prickly with her colleagues and opponents is pretty much totally irrelevant in the face of her hugely transformative (for the good) effects on the UK.
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South Pender wrote:
cromartie wrote:A relic of a generation of leaders that operated with callous disregard the consequences of their politics had on the majority of their citizens, I'll gladly dance on her grave and have a hearty dinner in celebration, just as I did when Reagan shuffled off this mortal coil. Though this time it'll be fish and chips.
Yup...she sure was a disaster. :wink: Oddly--if, in fact, she was so dreadful--a 2004 national survey (more than a decade after Thatcher left office) conducted by Ipsos Mori (a UK survey firm) polled 139 British academic experts in British politics, asking them to rank-order the 20 British PMs of the 20th century, and Thatcher was ranked 4th of the 20, after Attlee, Churchill, and Lloyd George (ranked 1, 2, and 3, respectively), and well ahead of such labour heavyweights as Tony Blair, Harold Wilson, and James Callaghan. The respondents were asked to rate the 20 PMs as successful or unsuccessful on a 10-point scale. In the last few days since her death, she has been tabbed by many as Britain's greatest peacetime PM of the 20th century. This is close to the Ipsos Mori result as both Churchill and Lloyd George were wartime PMs.

But Atlee is ranked first? The Labour PM who defeated Churchill immediately after the latter had won the war, and was largely responsible (for good or bad) of establishing the "welfare state" which supposedly destroyed the British economy until the Iron Lady came along?
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South Pender wrote: It's not how much they were loved that determines a leader's value and legacy, but what they did to advance the fortunes of their country and deal with national crises as they arose. Lots of the greatest leaders in history were complete bastards in person. In my opinion, whether Thatcher was sometimes prickly with her colleagues and opponents is pretty much totally irrelevant in the face of her hugely transformative (for the good) effects on the UK.
Wrong.

Leaders are judged by what they did to advance the fortunes of their countrymen, not by what they did to "advance" the fortunes of their country. When income inequality goes up by a third, and your poverty rate increases by 60%, you don't get to be great, and your "transformative" policies aren't good. Sorry.

She's dead. Reagan's dead. The generation that was susceptible to the inherent narcissism in the policies they preached are dying with them (the American version coming with a healthy dose of Prosperity Christianity), with Canada and Australia as lagging indicators. It can't happen soon enough.
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cromartie wrote:
South Pender wrote: It's not how much they were loved that determines a leader's value and legacy, but what they did to advance the fortunes of their country and deal with national crises as they arose. Lots of the greatest leaders in history were complete bastards in person. In my opinion, whether Thatcher was sometimes prickly with her colleagues and opponents is pretty much totally irrelevant in the face of her hugely transformative (for the good) effects on the UK.
Wrong.

Leaders are judged by what they did to advance the fortunes of their countrymen, not by what they did to "advance" the fortunes of their country. When income inequality goes up by a third, and your poverty rate increases by 60%, you don't get to be great, and your "transformative" policies aren't good. Sorry.
Sorry, not wrong. You have read my statement in a way that, I guess, sets you up to make a point. When I stated "advance the fortunes of their country," I, of course, was including (and, in fact, mainly focused on) the "countrymen." (I'm not sure just what you thought I meant by "the country.") You have picked a couple of statistics to make your point. I could point to many that would contradict your point. A year after Thatcher came to power in 1979, inflation hit 18%--a third-world level. The UK was regarded as the "sick man of Europe." Getting inflation under control was her first priority at that time, and by 1983, inflation was reduced to 4.9%. The cost-of-living was dramatically reduced. These were certainly things that were helping her countrymen. And, strange as it may seem, government spending actually went up under Thatcher; thus, it would be wrong to accuse her of failing to attend to the needs of her countrymen. Finally, it is misleading with regard to some facts to portray the whole Thatcher era by citing the points in that period when things were worst. Although unemployment went up during the first part of her 11-year administration, it came down by almost 50% in her last 5-6 years. Perhaps to you, cromartie, her policies weren't good, but to many others, they saved Britain from the crippling effects of trade unions behaving like laws unto themselves, completely undisciplined monetary policies, a malaise in the population from people losing hope, a declining national mindset based on the notion that the state would look after its citizens in all things, cradle to grave, and that self-reliance was unnecessary, and a shift from values of rectitude to those of narcissism. She gave the country a new vision, optimism, hope, and a new set of values. Britain was lagging far behind many of its European competitors (like France) in many markers of national success.
cromartie wrote:She's dead. Reagan's dead. The generation that was susceptible to the inherent narcissism in the policies they preached are dying with them (the American version coming with a healthy dose of Prosperity Christianity), with Canada and Australia as lagging indicators. It can't happen soon enough.
These statements suggest that you think that the UK would have been better off with a continuation of left-wing policies (particularly monetary practices). That, of course, is speculation, just as it would be to contend that the US would have done better had Reagan not had his two terms. We don't know. Politics runs in cycles, and world and national conditions also evolve over time; thus, in my opinion, it is a big mistake to think that a particular spot in the political spectrum is absolutely correct and will be in all circumstances and time-periods. It makes much more sense to me to see political policies and positions with respect to the problems and conditions of the day. In my opinion, Britain needed Thatcher in 1979, and, possibly, the US needed Reagan in 1980. Interestingly, two left-of-center leaders following Thatcher, Tony Blair and Bill Clinton continued most of her policies through the 90s. Finally, even a left-leaning economist, Nobel-Prize-winning Paul Krugman, grudgingly concludes that Thatcher was good for Britain. Thatcher and Reagan championed supply-side economics, something that worked in the 80s and beyond. Today, I would argue against these economic and monetary polices, as times have changed, and greater control of financial institutions is needed. One size does not fit all in politics.

Finally, it's a little hard for me to see Thatcher's values of self-sufficiency, energy, and ambition as nearly as narcissistic as those of nanny-state dependency, in which we regard ourselves, regardless of our efforts, as worthy of the benefits provided in large part by those in society who exert themselves. And it would be a mistake, in my opinion, to see Thatcher's virtues as losing their appeal. To my eye, these are the very values that continue today to be celebrated by people from across the political spectrum.
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