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WestCoastJoe
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http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ?hpt=hp_t1
CNN/Time Poll: Majority approve of Obama and Biden in advance of gun control announcement

Washington (CNN) - As President Barack Obama announces a package of proposals to limit gun violence, a new national survey indicates that his approval rating may be edging up.

The CNN/Time Magazine/ORC International poll (PDF) also indicates that a majority of Americans support stricter gun control laws in the wake of the shooting rampage at an elementary school in Connecticut.

And according to the survey, nearly six in ten approve of the job Vice President Joe Biden is doing, slightly higher than the number who approve of his boss. The vice president led a task force in the wake of the shootings that came up with specific proposals for the president on how to reduce gun violence in the country.

The president's approval rating stands at 55% in the poll, which was released Wednesday, with 43% saying they disapprove of the job Obama is doing in the White House. The president's approval rating is up three points from mid December CNN/ORC poll that was conducted just days after a suicidal gunman killed 26 people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

Of those who disapprove, 34% say they disapprove because Obama is too liberal, with 7% saying they give the president a thumbs down because he's not liberal enough.

More than nine in ten Democrats approve of the job Obama's doing. That number drops to 51% for independent voters, with just 13% of Republicans approving of the president's performance in office. The poll also indicates a gender gap, with women approving of the job Obama's doing by a 59%-39% margin, and men divided (51%-48%).

The Vice President's approval rating stands at 59%, with 38% saying they disapprove of the job he is doing. Biden's approval rating is up five points from last month. Besides leading the task force on curbing gun violence, Biden also had a high profile role, along with Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, in striking a deal that temporarily averted the country going over the fiscal cliff.

According to the poll, 55% favor stricter gun control laws, with 37% saying that they strongly support such laws. Forty-four percent oppose such measures, including 27% who say they strongly oppose stricter gun control laws.

"Those numbers suggest that the change in public opinion in the wake of Newtown may come mostly in the intensity of feelings for and against gun control," said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Gun control opponents in the past have developed a reputation for holding stronger views on the issue than supporters of gun control. But in the current poll, about two-thirds of those who favor stricter gun control laws feel strongly about that. That's a bit higher than the six in ten gun control opponents who strongly oppose stricter gun control. How strongly Americans feel about gun control may matter more to the success or failure of legislation tan the overall numbers."

The CNN/Time Magazine poll was conducted by ORC International Monday and Tuesday (Jan. 14-15), with 814 adults nationwide questioned by telephone. The survey's overall sampling error is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... e/?hpid=z2
What President Obama proposed on guns. And what might actually pass Congress.

Posted by Sean Sullivan on January 16, 2013 at 12:36 pm

President Obama announced a sweeping slate of new gun control proposals Wednesday designed to curb mass violence. Some of the items will be enacted via executive order while others will require action on Capitol Hill. Below, we take a closer look at the larger proposals that will require action from Congress and offer our best educated guess of how likely they are to pass, based on recent polling and what lawmakers have said:

* A ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) is set to introduce such a ban in the Senate soon, but its odds of passage don’t look that promising right now. Both Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) have expressed doubts, while conservative Democrats the president will need on his side have also offered reservations. The National Rifle Association opposes such a ban.

What polling shows: A Washington Post-ABC News poll released Monday showed 58 percent of adults and 59 percent of registered voters support a nationwide ban on the sale of assault weapons. A Pew poll released the same day showed 55 percent of Americans support a ban. But the issue divides Republicans and Democrats, something that especially matters in the GOP-controlled House, where many Republicans represent safe GOP districts that leave them more vulnerable to primary threats than general election challenges.

Odds of passage: Less than 50 percent.

* Requiring universal background checks on gun sales

Compared to an assault weapons ban, there is far greater overall consensus around the issue of strengthening background checks by requiring them in firearm sales at gun shows and in other private transactions, to end the so-called “gun show loophole.”

What polling shows: Eighty-eight percent of Americans said they support a law requiring background checks in sales at gun shows, according to the Washington Post-ABC News poll, including 89 percent of Republicans.

Odds of passage: 75 percent or better.

* Confirming Todd Jones as director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Among the steps Obama is taking by executive action is the nomination of Jones, currently the agency’s acting director, to head the agency, which has not had a permanent head in six years. The Senate would have to confirm Jones.

What polling shows: There is no recent polling on Jones specifically.

Odds of confirmation: Very good, considering that there are no obvious reasons to hold it up. If concerns are raised, then the odds will be lowered.

* Enhancing school safety

The Obama administration is proposing enhancing the physical security of schools and better preparing them to respond to outbreaks of mass violence. The administration’s proposal includes a call to put as many as 1,000 trained police officers and school counselors on the job. The administration notes that not every school will want the additional resources, and the choice will be left to them. It is also calling on Congress to provide $30 million in one-time grants to states to help school districts shore up emergency management plans.

What polling says: Overall, few Americans seem to disagree with the idea that school safety must be beefed up. The differences arise when it comes to the specifics. The Washington Post-ABC News poll showed, for example, that most support putting armed guards in every school — which is the idea the NRA has put forth. To be clear, the administration does not want to mandate school security; it is leaving choices up to them. It is calling for more funding for emergency management.

Odds of passage: Very good.
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Sir Purrcival
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Some statistics on US Guns

Link Here
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South Pender
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Just watched the President and VP speaking about measures in regard to gun violence.

I see the issue as residing in the will of the people, then the will of Congress. Obama will do what he can to rally the people. The people will have to influence Congress to pass legislation. It might happen, slowly, but I would not place bets on it happening any time soon.
It will be next-to-impossible for Obama to get any significant gun-control legislation through Congress; the Republican-controlled House of Representatives will block this. Still, these congressmen (in the House) are simply doing what their constituents want, which, for the red states at least, is to just leave the gun laws as they are. Despite events, there's no really strong increase in sentiment for tighter gun control among most of the citizenry of the US.
WestCoastJoe wrote:Meantime, there will be more attacks in schools, and malls, and other places of assembly, with assault rifles and large magazines of bullets.
Perhaps the enhanced background checks, allowing doctors to report unstable people who own guns, etc., will make a small dent in this, and I'm in favor of these initiatives announced today by Obama. However, if you are the kind of person who can be influenced by independent empirical data, you'll see that a semi-automatic rifle ban (the term "assault rifle" is just silly and very imprecise) is unlikely to have any effect. I've already mentioned that, with the expiration of the Clinton assault rifle ban, the rate of gun homicides actually went down, so it's hard to see re-introducing this as leading to any positive outcomes.
WestCoastJoe wrote:Honestly, if Canada starts to go the way of the US, I will be packing bags, and moving to Costa Rica, or Ecuador.
Are you sure about that, WCJ? According to the latest report from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, UNODC, (reference provided in link; check page 45 of this document for the graphs), the firearm homicide rates are as follows:

1. US and Canada: about 3 per 100,000 population;
2. Central America: about 15 per 100,000K;
3. South America: about 16 per 100,000K; and
4. Caribbean: about 20 per 100,000K.

Overall homicide rates (by all forms--guns, knives, blunt objects, etc.):

US: 4.8 per 100,000K population;
Canada: 1.6 per 100,000K;
Costa Rica: 10 per 100,000K
Ecuador: 18.2 per 100,000K.


Maybe you'd better stay here.... :wink:

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and ... 11_web.pdf
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Toppy Vann
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They love the violent video games in Hong Kong it seems from what I see on the MTR and buses and on weekends here I see young HKers in battle fatigues heading out to the war games sites on buses. But you can't get guns in HK so the issue of killings that way is just not happening. HK has a land border with China that is still a border control checkpoints (3 places) and you're not getting guns through that way. Police and Immigration and Customs boats are all over the waters surrounding HK and they stop boats all the time. Bottom line. If there is an influence of violent video games you don't see it as guns are just not able to get in. China doesn't have guns either so it is not something that is an issue.

Also HK has few locals in bar brawls - if there is a bar brawl at all it is expats - not Chinese. HKers find fighting abhorrent BUT you will often see a yelling match on the streets as road rage but the opponent just turtles and ignores the person. That seems to be the HK way with older folks (not younger ones) yelling at each other. The way to put the guy down it seems is to pretend you don't hear them.

China has a problem with school attacks at times with knives. It is not the young males like in the USA but older males who are deranged and attack kids or people.

We in North America are different than Chinese for sure when it comes to any form of violence. We have a limited threshold for reacting to any sort of attack and will fight back with our fists. Not so here. Unless you see Taiwanese legislators purse swinging and punching which is not typically Chinese.

The prevalence and availability of guns makes these crimes in the USA easier to commit as access to weapons is less complicated than in Canada. A young male like the guy in the USA who used mom's guns would have a harder time in Canada finding that sort of weapon to buy. It can be done but harder than down south.

In the midst of all the stats on guns comes this. The mindset of the gunners in the USA is insane.

Now we know that Sandy Hook like Obama not born in the state of Hawaii plain and simple didn't happen!!!! It was a hoax like the moon landing.
Conspiracy theorists claim Sandy Hook tragedy is elaborate government hoax

Vancouver Sun January 16, 2013

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Conspi ... z2IBlnXkam
Now a Fox news anchor is in on the hoax theory:
Now, a member of the media has joined the fray. Ben Swann, an anchor at the local Fox affiliate in Cincinnati, posted a Youtube video arguing that "there’s a good reason to question this whole narrative."
Only in America.

And this Jones dude who no doubt decries the lack of freedom in China believes that if there is more control of guns in the USA that 1776 will happen all over again! Some view of the democratic way of life in his own country.
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WestCoastJoe
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Some gun control/violence poll results ...
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WestCoastJoe
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Pic 1 Memory and conviction fade fast in the US ... (Hooray, says the NRA)

Pic 2 Cause of gun violence? ... Availability of guns ... 23% (Hooray, says the NRA)

(No guns = No shooting ... Ahh but then a new Hitler would take over, et cetera)

Pic 3 In favor of armed guards in schools? ... 54% (Hooray, says the NRA)

(What about the churches? And the malls? And the movie theatres? And the family picnics?)

Pic 4 Would stricter gun laws reduce violence? 39% (Hooray, says the NRA)

(What a radical idea! Not in the USA. Statistics can prove it conclusively ... )

Change? Forgeddaboutit
.................

Guns for everybody.

Prescribed drugs for everybody.

Fast food for everybody.

The American Way.

Welcome to the USA ... Land of the Free. Home of the Brave.

But don't leave your gun at home. Better refresh the "rules" of gunfights as seen in movies ... Who drew first? LOL
..................

Debate is hopeless at this time. As is discussion. But opinions still have some merit.

Just IMO ... Not trying to win a debate, or an argument, or even to discuss. Just expressing opinions.

"But, but, but ... "
South Pender
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Guns for everybody.

Prescribed drugs for everybody.

Fast food for everybody.

Welcome to the USA ... Land of the Free. Home of the Brave.
With the exception, perhaps, of gun laws, do you really see US society as that degradingly different from ours in Canada? Fortunately, we've not had to experience the legacy of slavery, but I see most of the societal trends of the US here in Canada as well--including fast food that you list (and the obesity epidemic), access to prescription drugs (what's wrong with that?), and a trash entertainment culture. I think some Canadians like to feel that we are morally superior to the US, all the while accepting their military protection and economic benefits. Although I'm a Canadian, I've lived in the US (for a number of years) as well as Canada, and my impression of Americans was very positive. On the whole, they're a generous people with the same values that we have. They tend to be more passionate about their activities, beliefs, and rights than we do--and are far more patriotic. I think that there are definable reasons for these differences (but I won't get into those here), and, personally, I think that slagging and ridiculing our best friends to the south is a mistake. It's not that we can't disagree with specific aspects of US government, etc., but more how we do it--with analysis and care, along with respect for the country and its people. Just my opinion, mind you.

As for guns, this is an important part of the US culture--in their collective unconscious, collective history, and DNA. A different group settled the US than settled Canada, and those living in the US who lacked the revolutionary spirit and genes emigrated to Canada (the United Empire Loyalists) around the time of the American Revolution. Today's Americans are the descendants of these revolutionary settlers. They believe in their founding values--embodied in their Constitution and Bill of Rights. It's not as though Americans have succumbed to some mental disease that makes them irrational with respect to gun ownership (and we Canadians, in our wisdom, know so much better). It's that it's an important part of their history, value system, and culture. We Canadians don't have this in our DNA to nearly the same extent and seem to feel that somehow the US is afflicted with some deranged belief system. The citizenry of the US will take some steps to limit the damage from some of their current gun laws, but I'd be very surprised if, as a country, they went to any significant level of denial of gun ownership. I'm betting that semi-automatic rifles (the so-called "assault rifles") will stay. With the much more decentralized form of governance seen in the US than in Canada, we will, however, see individual states tighten up the rules of gun ownership. And as the research has shown, this will make next-to-no difference in gun-related homicides.

Note: edited (slightly) to assuage WCJ's feelings.
Last edited by South Pender on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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WestCoastJoe
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South Pender wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:Guns for everybody.

Prescribed drugs for everybody.

Fast food for everybody.

Welcome to the USA ... Land of the Free. Home of the Brave.
With the exception, perhaps, of gun laws, do you really see US society as that degradingly different from ours in Canada? Fortunately, we've not had to experience the legacy of slavery, but I see most of the societal trends of the US here in Canada as well--including fast food that you list (and the obesity epidemic), access to prescription drugs (what's wrong with that?), and a trash entertainment culture. I think some Canadians like to feel that we are morally superior to the US, all the while accepting their military protection and economic benefits. Although I'm a Canadian, I've lived in the US as well as Canada, and my impression of Americans was very positive. On the whole, they're a generous people with the same values that we have. They tend to be more passionate about their activities, beliefs, and rights than we do--and are far more patriotic. I think that there are definable reasons for these differences (but I won't get into those here), and, personally, I think that slagging and ridiculing our best friends to the south is for losers. It's the kind of behaviour we see from those with inferiority feelings when they describe a winner: "Oh that guy isn't so great." It's not that we can't disagree with specific aspects of US government, etc., but more how we do it--with analysis and care, along with respect for the country and its people. Just my opinion, mind you.
OK, some discussion ...

I see Americans as our cousins, brothers and sisters. I see the USA, as a country, like the big dog, causing havoc in the kitchen. I see many of them as well meaning but woefully lacking in world vision. I see many of them as dominated by religion. I see many of them as suspicious of the rest of the world.

Prescription drugs? Huge problem. Another huge issue. Not to be discussed by me at this time.

Yes, Canada is distressingly close to the USA in many of its values. Fortunately IMO we have been moderated by a more worldly view, a more multi cultural view.

I love the USA, as our big brother. The policeman of the world. A great neighbour. And a great big mess also. I think much/most of the world would agree with me that those three things I mentioned fit the USA, and are a problem. Am I slagging the USA mentioning those things? I don't really think so. And Canada is inclined the same way as the US. We're in the same boat.

Do Americans slag us? Of course. Do the Irish slag the British? Of course. Do Nova Scotians slag Newfoundlanders? Or course.

Do you slag anybody?
South Pender wrote:and, personally, I think that slagging and ridiculing our best friends to the south is for losers.
Is this not slagging?

It seems to be more than opinion when you respond directly, in this fashion, to a post that was not directed at you.

Congratulations. You got me to respond. Very clever. And you may have wanted an argument. But that ends this topic for me.

South Pender, if you choose to disagree with me further, please make it in a private message.
..........

And no use of insulting terms for site members. Please.
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OK. Let me make a further a general statement regarding the discussion in this thread since I just seem to have been accused of hypocrisy. In my opinion, there's a big difference between taking general open-ended, insulting, and ridiculing shots (without any hard evidence at that) at a country ("slagging") and identifying specific elements of disagreement and dealing with these rationally. The belief often expressed that we Canadians are somehow morally superior to Americans because certain things happen there that don't happen here is, in my opinion, ill-founded. There are a lot of good things too that happen in the US that don't or can't happen in Canada. The countries are different in significant ways historically and demographically. The current gun issue in the US is no reason to consider the country a failure or a mess. Again, just my opinion, as I noted earlier.
Last edited by South Pender on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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It's now (Jan. 17) beginning to look as though some agreement may well result on certain aspects of gun ownership. Obama has wisely, I think, laid out a comprehensive plan that at least some Republicans will support parts of. This is a good outcome if it materializes. Tighter background checks; closing the gun show loophole, etc. These measures will not remove guns from the possession of lawful citizens. We'll have to see how the Republican-dominated House of Representatives responds to the more contentious parts of Obama's plan.
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Toppy Vann
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JCalhoun- forget Mao. That has nothing to do with guns. But an American gun advocate might say if the nation was armed that Mao would not have been able to kill those people. You have to take China as it is today. It is not the gun toting place the USA or it'd be a disaster. You only have to hear how the US politicians and top officials talk when they are in Asia. Very different than the local messages back in the USA where it is good politics to attack China as not free. I am in HK, China and in the mainland all the time. You have to be live and not just a local tourist to see what is going there.

What is impressive is how the gun manufacturers who fund the NRA gun lobby apparently have such mind control over the people. I guess much like we in Canada go all gaga over all things NHL.

I can't recall the Mexican gov't official who was on Charlie Rose with graph after graph of how when the assault weapons ban expired how that fueled guns into Mexico. I was shocked by the many charts he showed and guns and deaths after the ban expired in 2004.

In 2011 the Mex. Pres't had this to say:

Mexican President blames cartel violence on US guns
by Hugh Holub on May. 12, 2011,

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-1 ... n-ban.html

Why should Canadians care? While not on the same scale but the guns the gangsters use in Canada are traded for drugs. We are getting far too comfortable in Canada and yet there are shootings in our suburbs even. Richmond this week. Port Moody a few months back. Back to my China comparison. You don't have to fear that anywhere in China or Hong Kong. I guess it will take innocents to be killed by gun fire before we in BC get concerned about guns on our streets.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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