What Happens Now

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What happens Now

Ed Hervey is fired
0
No votes
Devone Claybrooks is fired
6
40%
Hervey & Claybrooks fired
0
No votes
Only assistant coaches fired
8
53%
Status Quo - no changes to management or coaching staff
1
7%
 
Total votes: 15
JohnnyMusso
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What Happens Now

If you asked me a week ago I would have voted for Hervey being fired, but now this rumour is floating around that Claybrooks will be fired. My gut feeling tells me Farhan L is probably right that Claybrooks will be made the fall guy and Braley will eat his contract. If not, it is highly unlikely Lions stay Status Quo.


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B.C.FAN
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Re: What Happens Now

Any change in the GM or head coach this offseason would set the team back. Hervey has lots of work to do to sign FAs. He let too many good ones go last offseason but he has made good in-season adjustments. The personnel is not the problem with this team. Neither is the head coach. It has been a steep learning curve for him but the team is headed in the right direction. I’d love to see new offensive and defensive coordinators, with Claybrooks being the most likely person to step in as his own DC. A few new assistants are what the team needs.


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
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The_Pauser
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Re: What Happens Now

B.C.FAN wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:03 am Any change in the GM or head coach this offseason would set the team back. Hervey has lots of work to do to sign FAs. He let too many good ones go last offseason but he has made good in-season adjustments. The personnel is not the problem with this team. Neither is the head coach. It has been a steep learning curve for him but the team is headed in the right direction. I’d love to see new offensive and defensive coordinators, with Claybrooks being the most likely person to step in as his own DC. A few new assistants are what the team needs.
How is the team headed in the right direction? The only wins they had this year were against Toronto, Ottawa, and a game against Montreal where their starting QB was suspended and the Lions even came very close to losing that one too.

I defended Claybrooks early on, but I just don't like many of the decisions he's made as head coach. The lack of reps Kraemer receives in practice is inexcusable. I get Reilly likes to play a lot of reps, but you're never going to develop your next QB unless he gets his share of reps too. That's how Buono always had the next man up at the QB position. When Reilly went down, the team didn't stand a chance because we didn't have a backup who was ready to go.

I would look at options as to who would be a suitable HC before making a final decision though. That's the same philosophy I take with players. Don't cut a guy until you have a suitable replacement who is better. Right now I'm not too sure what kind of candidates are out there. I don't expect the decision to be made this way though.


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MikeAK
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Re: What Happens Now

I didn't vote because my option wasn't available. We need the ownership situation sorted out. It has been well documented of Brailey's desire to sell the team. That should be the #1 priority this offseason. This was a terrible year and we need a new owner with long term goals. Until that happens I don't expect much change to happen where it counts, which is on the field results.


jwbavalon
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Re: What Happens Now

Before we analyse who goes or stays, we need to start with the ownership issue. It is theirs to resolve, not inherit.
MikeAK wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:14 am I didn't vote because my option wasn't available. We need the ownership situation sorted out. It has been well documented of Brailey's desire to sell the team. That should be the #1 priority this offseason. This was a terrible year and we need a new owner with long term goals. Until that happens I don't expect much change to happen where it counts, which is on the field results.


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B.C.FAN
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Re: What Happens Now

Ed Willes is another prominent media member who believes Claybrooks will be fired, not necessarily because of his coaching ability but because retaining the status quo would be a tough sell in this market.
General manager Ed Hervey, who made some cataclysmic personnel mistakes, has to own a good portion of the 5-13 record. But somehow, some way, the Lions have to restore consumer confidence in their brand and returning both Claybrooks and Hervey will be a tough sell in this market.

At least it will be to the fan base. As for the locker-room, the players bought into the Claybrooks’ program and didn’t seem to mind he wears his hat at an unconventional angle. Their performance in Saturday’s finale when they pushed Calgary and quarterback Bo Levi Mitchell to the final seconds with a QB, Brandon Bridge, who has been here three weeks, and a makeshift lineup, spoke volumes.

Then again, so did at least one voice in the Lions’ locker-room.

“I think he’s a good dude and given the opportunity he’s going to be a great coach in this league,” said Bryan Burnham.

In the aftermath of Saturday’s loss, Claybrooks seemed philosophical.

“With one-year contracts (the norm in the CFL) you’re always rebuilding, but I think we’ve established our brand and culture,” he said. “The players understand the standard here. We just have to play on a consistent basis and that’s what we’re trying to build. You have to build that with continuity.”

Maybe, but building that continuity requires patience. That doesn’t seem to be a luxury the Lions can afford right now.
Willes' Musings: Big questions for Lions as season mercifully ends

Patience is exactly what's required. As a longtime fan who was disappointed with the team's performance this year and some of the management and coaching decisions, I can understand the frustration in the fan base. But I believe the Lions have a better chance of turning things around by tweaking the team's management, coaching staff and roster rather than making wholesale changes.

If the Lions wanted to make a PR move, they'd be better off firing the introvert Hervey and replacing him with local legend Geroy Simon, who could do media interviews and public appearances as the new face of the team's management. I don't know that hiring an inexperienced GM would be wise, though.

I've already renewed my season tickets for 2020 and I'm prepared to commute to every game from Kamloops in the expectation of seeing an entertaining and competitive product on the field. I have more faith in Hervey and Claybrooks than in the unknown.


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
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David
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Re: What Happens Now

The thing is, you're not going to lose many fans with a Hervey/Claybrooks status quo (with perhaps some tweaks to the assistants). Most hardcores who care about this team - which is, let's face facts, what we're mostly down to - saw improvement and understand it's not a "one season" process.

If Braley wants to blow it up and start over, he's not going to see the positive reaction from the fence-sitting/casual fans that he might expect. Status quo or new regime - it's going to be a "wait and see" approach regardless. Why not just stay the course?

Football decisions > business decisions.


DH :cool:


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maxlion
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Re: What Happens Now

I agree that changing the coach or GM as a PR move would be misguided. If you believe you have the right people in place, then I am all for giving them a chance to turn things around. I'm just not sure that we do have the right people.

I don't think that the staff that Claybrooks assembled is good enough. I also wonder about the level of organization and preparation in the coaching.

Hervey has a good eye for talent, but the US scouting has been poor and the amount of turnover has been extreme. The identity of the team was gutted.

I am okay with bringing either or both back next year. I still have some hope that Claybrooks will turn out to be a great coach, and Hervey a great GM. But there are some valid reasons to make a change beyond just PR.


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KnowItAll
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Re: What Happens Now

Don't look for much improvement from the Lions next year if EH stays


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Toppy Vann
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Re: What Happens Now

I don't accept Farhan's view that the problem was too many new assistant coaches. The problem was GM (see below) and the HC not being the HC needed for the situation.

You can let the OC, DC and ST coaches move on but the underlying problem with the HC as is must be fixed. Of course the GM has to do a better job and gutting the locker room of leaders was part of the issue here.

When you have an OFF scheme designed for one primary read and layered pass routes that didn't match the O-Line's ability to stave off pressure and you lose game after game with that .. that's on the HC to step on the OC


The problem with the GM in BC is that his personal leadership skills are among the weakest of GMs across the CFL. He was hired for his ability to find talent - something he's been superb at - until this year.

While we credit Ed Hervey with hiring two good coaches after Kavis Reed in Chris Jones and Jason Maas, those who thought this way - like me - might have concluded that he really understands leadership and what the prime key objectives for his new HC are. Now I'm not so sure he understood this when he hired any of his coaches.


Not that all GMs in the CFL have the leadership skills to understand the key priorities for setting the tone and a performance oriented culture where coaches and players can excell and where his HC is a coach of coaches and has an overview.

It's clear that some things the HC didn't focus on like the Offensive schemes and the OC were imposed on him but I'd give him low marks for not stepping in and challenging Jarius Jackson as a DC he knew what to do to stop BC.

He inherited Mike Reilly and of course - he doesn't share the role in a game and he only wanted O'Brien as a back up.

I'm really torn on Devone Claybrooks as a Head Coach and leader for two reasons:

1. The HC relates to all players and his culture as Duron Carter said is open, transparent and there's not divisions or petty stuff going on which Carter implied on 1040 Sat night that he saw in prior CFL teams. This is fantastic but not a winner in a group like BC had where you dumped so many of the leaders - Sol E. Rolly L. and even Manny A.

The problem with this HC culture is that this works when you've got the talent and leadership to get Ws.

2. Most Head Coaches in sports set their philosophy of football, coaching and performance standards out clearly and early not just in words (as those coaches usually have platitudes that players tune out of) knowing that a performance oriented culture bought into by the players equal wins. The top coaches know it's easier to loosen up after the culture is instilled in the players where they won't accept from others stupid things.

I didn't hear this from the outset.

I didn't see the HC take an oversight view of the OFF or ST and ensure his philosophy of football was there.

Wally was the epitome of the old school HC - players knew where they stood and they saw good ones dumped like milk before it soured. I'm not a fan of this type of leadership.

Wally was at one end of the spectrum but there's a middle ground where players aren't in fear of their jobs but they know if they're not performing, players and coaches won't accept that.

Winning teams are when coaches aren't having to push and simple phrases like "play our game" are that have to be said pre-game as everyone knows what that means.

-------

Too often these teams rush out and find a sports psychologist who has a role but that's like bandaging wounds on arms and legs when the patient is suffering from a jugular cut.

What DeVone needs is someone who is a sports leadership coach and can help him find that philosophy and how to get it in place.


"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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B.C.FAN
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Re: What Happens Now

Justin Dunk of 3downnation says the Lions quietly signed Ed Hervey to a 2-year contract extension before the 2019 season so he and Claybrooks are both under contract through the 2021 season.

Lions quietly signed extension with GM Ed Hervey prior to 2019 season

If that report is true, paying out either Hervey or Claybrooks would be extremely costly and could have severe ramifications for who the team could hire under the coaching cap. Firing both would probably be impossible.


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
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Re: What Happens Now

B.C.FAN wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:48 am If that report is true, paying out either Hervey or Claybrooks would be extremely costly and could have severe ramifications for who the team could hire under the coaching cap. Firing both would probably be impossible.
I was pondering one thought in that regard. I'd be shocked if there isn't language or clauses written into the contracts of GMs and HCs covering payouts in the event of termination. For this season any team exceeding the FOPs cap will only be required to pay the monetary fines assessed on the team. Other penalties like loss of draft picks will not kick in until next season. With that in mind could teams simply buy out the remainder of the contract(s) of the GM or coaches and give them a lump sum payment before Dec 31, 2019 thus biting the bullet on the fines now. Like the SMS fines would only apply to the amount spent above the $2.8M cap meaning teams who are not right up against that FOPs cap would have some wiggle room to reduce the fine impact.


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B.C.FAN
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Re: What Happens Now

Hambone wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:56 am
B.C.FAN wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:48 am If that report is true, paying out either Hervey or Claybrooks would be extremely costly and could have severe ramifications for who the team could hire under the coaching cap. Firing both would probably be impossible.
I was pondering one thought in that regard. I'd be shocked if there isn't language or clauses written into the contracts of GMs and HCs covering payouts in the event of termination. For this season any team exceeding the FOPs cap will only be required to pay the monetary fines assessed on the team. Other penalties like loss of draft picks will not kick in until next season. With that in mind could teams simply buy out the remainder of the contract(s) of the GM or coaches and give them a lump sum payment before Dec 31, 2019 thus biting the bullet on the fines now. Like the SMS fines would only apply to the amount spent above the $2.8M cap meaning teams who are not right up against that FOPs cap would have some wiggle room to reduce the fine impact.
I saw one report out of Ottawa that the money owed on Campbell’s contract will be paid out over 5 years to lessen the impact on the coaching cap, and that it will be reduced if he lands another CFL job in 2020.


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
JohnnyMusso
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Re: What Happens Now

That could happen here too, if Claybrooks is fired. My worry is if Claybrooks is fired, will Jason Maas be his replacement for unless Eskimos make it to the Grey Cup, I expect him to be fired and likely after the Montreal game which I think the Als will win. Maas cannot get Edmonton over the hump and that will be his undoing. Like Vic Rapp many years ago, Maas will be fired because of it and Rick Campbell hired to replace him.


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Re: What Happens Now

I’d like to see Claybrooks move to DC and the Lions offer offer Campbell the HC job


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