Leos vs Calgary - Its Crunch Time! and Game Day Thread

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

Post Reply
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Our B.C. Lions are now in the driver’s seat for a playoff berth. Our Leos have now won 5 of their last 6 games, with quarterback Jonathan Jennings either starting or taking the reins from an injured Travis Lulay, in the second or first quarter, in two of those games, to help lead our Leos to victory.

Now it looks like it’s Lulay’s turn to take us the rest of the way.

LEOS ARE LOOKING PLAYOFF BOUND

I’ve contended, as have many others for most of this season, that our Leos have the talent to win the Grey Cup this season and given the tools to play to their potential, they would have been challenging Calgary for 1st place in the West. (rather than have been out of contention for a playoff spot for most of this season)

Now we have a great opportunity to get into the playoffs and win it all.
Our Leos find themselves in this positive situation also due to the slumping Edmonton Eskimos. While our Leos have won 5 of their last 6 games, the Eskimos have lost 5 of their last 6 games.

The major problem for the Eskimos for most of this season had been their Wally inspired passive soft corner zone defense, coordinated by Wally mentored Mike Benevedes. The Eskimos had been able to win in the first half of the season due to their Mike Reilly led offence.
But recently, the wheels have also come off Edmonton’s offence. Mike Reilly has not thrown a touchdown pass in over 9 quarters of football. In last weekend’s loss to Regina, Reilly threw 3 interceptions, the last one a Pick 6, in the fourth quarter, as Edmonton’s offence was only able to score 12 points in the game.
Reilly only completed 13 of 27 passes and had a pass-efficiency rating of just 30.2, which is horrendous. In the previous week, Edmonton’s offence was only able to score 3 points in the entire game as Reilly only completed 54% of his passes for 154 yds. against the Bombers, while throwing 2 interceptions.

Mile Reilly has an interception rate this season that is worse than Jonathan Jennings 2017 season. However, it does not appear that the Eskimos will publicly throw Reilly under the bus as ‘being inconsistent’, ‘having deer in the headlights’ syndrome, ‘can’t read a defense’, not ‘smart enough’ or ‘dedicated enough’ and they would be wise not to.

The Eskimos have serious protection issues, as our Lions especially did in 2017. No quarterback can do it alone. Protection, scheme, play calling, game planning, and play design all factor into a quarterback’s success or not, whether its Mike Reilly or Jonathan Jennings or Travis Lulay.

THE BACKDROP TO THIS GAME – THE STORIES OF THE WEEK
“When you blame and scapegoat others, you give up your change” Robert Anthony
“Words have the power to inspire or to destroy” James Maxwell
It’s been a most difficult year to be a young quarterback named Jonathan Jennings. He has been publicly shamed as not being smart enough to quarterback a ‘normal’ CFL offence by his offensive coordinator and shredded publicly before last week’s game as lacking the dedication needed to lead his teammates.

That shredding by Ed Hervey has continued to occupy Leos sports headlines this week.

Jennings must have been in a state of shock just prior to last week’s game, when hearing about Hervey’s comments. Now that he and his teammates have had more time to digest it, what will the impact be, for Jennings and his teammates?

Mike Reilly, Edmonton’s quarterback, had only started two CFL football games as he entered his 4th CFL season. He was still learning the game as a backup quarterback.
It took Mike Reilly 7 CFL seasons before he threw for over 5,000 yds or had a quarterback efficiency of over 100.
In Reilly’s first 3 seasons in Edmonton, as a starter, he never achieved a quarterback efficiency of over 90.

Jonathan Jennings had a quarterback efficiency of 99.8 in his first 6 games as a starter in 2015, as a rookie third string quarterback and he had a quarterback efficiency of 102.1. in his first full season as our starter. In Reilly’s first full season as a starting quarterback in Edmonton he only completed 59% of his passes and had a quarterback efficiency of 86.9.

Even in Reilly’s second season as a starter in Edmonton, with 5 years of CFL experience, he only completed 62.4% of his passes for a quarterback efficiency of 88.7, which is in the ballpark to Jennings 2017 QE , a season in which Jennings was vilified, while playing behind a porous offensive line in a very predictable and deficient scheme.
Reilly only became considered an ‘elite’ CFL quarterback in his 7th CFL season. Many CFL quarterbacks who became considered elite, took a number of years of experience to achieve that status.

No GM or Head Coach or Offensive Coordinator ever publicly shamed Mike Reilly for being inconsistent, undedicated, or not smart enough during his ‘challenging’ seasons.
Jarious Jackson (twice) and Ed Hervey have not only publicly criticized Jennings play this season but shamed and humiliated Jennings for his ‘supposed’ lack of intelligence and for his ‘supposed’ lack of dedication and commitment to his team and teammates.

Its not just Jennings that is being affected. What has happened will be resonating through the Leos team.

THE CONCEPT OF PUBLIC SHAMING

Public humiliation or public shaming is a form of punishment whose main feature is dishonoring or disgracing a person, It was regularly used as a form of judicially sanctioned punishment in previous centuries but fell out of common use in the 20th century, because it became considered a form of cruel and unusual punishment.
Public shaming, due to its humiliating aspects, has been documented as having serious negative psychological effects and devastating consequences. It can cause depression as well as suicidal thoughts. Publicly humiliated individuals can also develop a variety of symptoms including apathy, paranoia, anxiety, and PTSD.
Its powerful stuff, as fear of rejection, isolation, and fear of banishment are ingrained in our DNA from our earliest tribal times, when being 'cut form the herd' and banishment from the tribe usually meant certain death.

Yet this despicable behavior has been used numerous times this season on a young quarterback and a young man who has been of good character, and who has always been accountable. This is a young quarterback who has given our Leos their only playoff victory since 2011. This is a quarterback who has led his team for 10 game winning drives, including that playoff victory.

After the loss to Hamilton, our only loss in the last 6 games, Wally Buono took to the airwaves once again to trash Chris Rainey, only a couple of weeks after he had publicly embarrassed him and benched him but at least the comments were based on his play. Hervey’s and Jackson’s comments have attacked Jennings intelligence and impugned his character.

Rainey ran a punt back for a touchdown against Toronto and Jennings played well enough for us to avenge our loss to Toronto earlier this season, as teammates as Travis Lulay and Bryan Burnham showed Jennings their backs in support.

But one must wonder about the longer-term effects to Jennings and Rainey’s confidence, which were already impacted by the previous public remarks they were on the receiving end of.

Will the fear of being public shamed motivate other Leos players or will it cause them to tighten up?

THE TWO ‘EDS”

One also must question the role of Ed Willes in all of this. He seems to have gotten a free pass. Hervey was out wanting the media to drink “the Jennings not dedicated enough Kool Aid”, as a scapegoat after the Hamilton loss but Willes didn’t have to drink it. He has a choice of what to print or not to print, what questions to ask or not to ask, or what story to write or not.

Ed Willes had to be more than aware, before he asked Hervey the question “Is Jonathan Jennings an elite quarterback” that he wasn’t and couldn’t be at this stage of his career.

Willes also knew the present situation - that Jennings was presently playing as a backup to Lulay. He knew Jennings stats. He also had to be aware that he had written himself, a long time back, that he did not considered Jennings as the answer to our quarterbacking and has always preferred Lulay as our starter.

Willes, to me, it seems, had to be asking the question, anticipating Ed Hervey would say “No, he isn’t”. Then Ed Willes could write the headline “Hervey Says Jennings is Not an Elite Quarterback”.
But Hervey gave Willes three extra deserts with his answer
In the past, I’ve asked the question as to whether Willes was serving as a role of facilitator for the Leos brass, in terms of getting their message out. For this recent article, I ask the question as to whether Willes wanted to reinforce his previous views of Jennings or whether he just wants to publish controversial stories, no matter the potential cost is to a young man’s confidence, career, and mental health.

Ed Willes had a career dream, at some time, just like Jennings has a dream. Now that Willes is older, it seems all he has left is to facilitate harm to a young man’s dream, knowing that Jennings is not a jerk but a good young man, who has always been accountable and always ‘worn it’ for the team, no matter what and no matter how unfair.
All Willes article has done is to create havoc, as well as embarrassment and pain for young man’s feelings, and for ‘WHAT’
Is this the kind of stuff Ed Willes would want to be remembered for as a sports columnist? Maybe it is. But it would be a good thing if he would give us some insight instead, rather than the same old boring quarterback controversy stuff.

Ed Willes - you’re a very experienced sports columnist. Surely you are capable of better. Jim Taylor gave us so much better. Jennings would have started one more game and then Lulay would have taken over. This was all so unnecessary.

Ed Hervey has not apologized nor refuted the statements from Lulay, Dunnigan, or Jennings agent, nor Jennings comments this week. Jennings refuted the comments after practice on Tuesday, saying he believes he’s one of the hardest working players on the team.
Jennings said, on Tuesday, that he prides himself on his hard work and character, and never thought that either would be questioned.

He also said he believed he was one of the hardest working players on the team. “I work my tail off, I’ve worked my tail off for four years”, adding that he also puts in video review at home in the evening.
I didn’t expect Hervey to refute Jennings statements because he couldn’t. Nor did I expect him to understand hurt feelings either, other than anger. It’s like taking a color-blind person and asking him to see anything other than black and white.

I also have no doubt that Hervey wants every Leo to be a player that he has hired. That way, those players will feel a debt to him, in one way or the other. Jennings will never be in that category. By devaluing him publicly, it also makes Hervey’s choice of getting rid of Jennings, at the end of this season, more palpable to Leos fans.
It also puts some fear into the rest of the players on the team - you could be NEXT.
Ed Hervey’s world, by his own comments, is cold and hard. Highly doubt he has ever experienced real joy but then I doubt that Buono ever has either. That’s why Buono has said there is no joy in winning but only that he hates to lose. There are some types of people who only feel good when they are bringing someone down.

But those types should never have power.

But I certainly can’t argue with Ed Hervey’s own statement:
“I didn’t come here to be fair”


No argument from me on that one. The means justify the end goal, no matter what 'means' are used.

Ed Hervey also said
““I wake up at four o’clock at home and I work the phones”.
Well Ed, that’s not being at the facility. Lulay said that he and Jennings go over tape together at home in the evenings. But that is not good enough for you. You want to see Jennings morning, noon, and night, knowing that he is at the facility.

Get up at 4:30, go to the facility and work the phones. We want to see you and know that you are there. How do we know that you are up at 4:30 working the phones? We can’t see you. Therefore, we can’t be sure how committed you are.

Don’t take it personally!! It’s just that we know that all the great CFL General Managers are always at the facility early in the morning. They don’t’ come in late like you Ed!!! Or maybe that is an unsubstantiated comment.

Ed Hervey, in an article he wrote, as our GM for Black Heritage Month (while recounting his days growing up in Compton and Watts), said
“I love the challenge of building teams and building relationships and because of those relationships we’ve built over the years we were able to be successful with the players. I sincerely believe building trust in relationships goes a long way.
You need to read your own words again Ed Hervey!! And perhaps also ask yourself the question of what the concept of ‘el mano’ means to you, too.

Don’t play games that all this came about just because you felt the need to answered a question 'honestly'. You talked to two media outlets about it. You could have said Jonathan is working to get better each day and for anything else I talk to him ‘el mano’, like I do with all Leo players. I don’t talk about my players behind their backs.

But you didn’t because this was the message you wanted out about Jennings was one that you wanted it out publicly.

The two ‘Eds’. Enough said.

AN UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOR

There is an unsubstantiated rumor that Jonathan Jennings returned to practice this week lighter in weight because he went without Thanksgiving dinner to watch more game tape with Travis Lulay.

This rumor also coincided with another rumor that Wally Buono had waddled in to his first practice of the week, looking a bit heavier, appearing as if had enjoying a mighty Thanksgiving feast and that Ed Hervey arrived, as one of the last Leos into the workplace, looking like his jowls were quite a bit bigger than usual, after wolfing down second helpings of mashed potatoes and gravy.
Of course, those rumors could be just as false as the rumor that Jonathan Jennings has not been dedicated enough to his craft.
But the following subtitle is not an unsubstantiated rumor. It was the second big Leo story of the week.

JARIOUS JACKSON’S PLAY BOOK STOLEN

Jarious Jackson’s computer, with a Leos logo on both sides and digital play book (the Little Orange Book) were stolen from his car on Saturday night, after the game.

Jackson had gone to a bistro after the Lions win against Toronto to watch a Vegas MMA fight and left them inside his car, availbale for a ‘smash and grab’. It also appears that Jackson had not backed up his work to a hard drive.

Lionbackers’ TheLionKing wrote: “Jackson should know better than to leave valuables in his car” and “I guess the thief is not a fan of RPO”.

Lowell Ullrich, who has some courage, as well as the ability to bring insight and levity to his football articles, wrote:
A wise guy would see the upside when a laptop containing the keys to the B.C. Lions offence belonging to assistant coach Jarious Jackson was stolen out of his car on the weekend, given how the offence has performed at times this season.
My best guess is that when the thief opens the orange cover, he will find that the inside of the playbook pages are colored in Regina ‘green”. Jackson’s playbook just has an Orange Cover and it really should be called our ‘Rider Green’ offensive scheme.

Our plays so closely resemble McAdoo’s offence that they appear to be a carbon copy of McAdoo’s highly criticized RPO scheme, that has Regina fans beyond frustrated and sometimes in anguish.
And to think that Jarious made out as if he was designing his ‘new’ offensive scheme for Jonathan Jennings and our Leos. Now that is a tasty color of lime Kool Aid dyed orange to dupe us.
Even worse, Jarious Jackson has criticized Jennings intelligence while not securing our team’s playbook and his game plans, notes and other important information. These are secret documents critical for team success (or failure if you want to look at it in a certain way).

I feel sorry for Jackson in one way, because I know how it feels to have my car broken into but in another way, it also shows that kharma can be a *beeotch*. Not smart of him at all.

There is a saying that what is good for the goose should be good for the gander. There have been a lot of goose (player criticism) without much gander coming back, as per usual in Leo Land. There is also a saying that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Is there going to be fallout from the behaviors or our coaching staff and GM over the many instances of them going public in devaluing our players? Only time is going to tell.

The above sets the environment as our Leos travel to Calgary to play the league leading Stamps.

The STAMP’S PLAYERS

The Calgary Stampeders were only able to score 12 points on Rich Stubler’s defense (remember him – they guy Wally got rid of to make way for Mark Washington) in their last contest. Bo Levi Mitchell only completed 58% of his passes for 199 yds against Stubler’s astute game plan.

Bo Levi Mitchell also threw 3 interceptions against Montreal, the same number as Reilly against Regina and Jennings in the second game against Hamilton. It sometimes happens, even to elite quarterbacks. Bo Levi Mitchell has had some excellent games this season and he’s had some poor ones – the reasons are often complex.
It’s how your team’s coaches react to those types of games that matters most. Do they create a ‘tire fire’ and ‘scapegoat’ and ‘sacrifice a player at the alter’ or do their coaches get into their offices and start looking at game tape - adapting and coming up with better game plans in the future?
That’s what good coaches do. That is what the Stamps do.

The Stamps win first win defense. Their defense is far and away the CFL’s best defense. Their defense is in a league of its own, in terms of not allowing the opposition to score. That allows them to win, even when their offence is inconsistent. It’s their rock. Devon Claybrooks, mentored by Rich Stubler, has become an elite CFL defensive coordinator.

The Stamps offence is good too. They’ve scored the second most points in the CFL. Dave Dickenson, as Head Coach, also calls the offensive plays for the Stamps and he knows how to keep defenses off balance. The Stamps do a very good job of protecting their quarterback and have very good offensive balance in their play calling.

The Stamps defense is led by middle linebacker Alex Singleton, who leads the CFL in tackles and by Micah Johnson, who is now 2nd in the CFL in quarterback sacks. On offence, Bo Levi Mitchell distributes the football while Calgary tailback Don Jackson is dangerous and has an impressive 6 yd. average per carry. Parades, Calgary’s field goal kicker is accurate and can hit from long range if required.

OUR LEOS PLAYERS

Our Leos players are coming off a big win against Toronto, winning their 5th game of the last six. Jennings has been efficient as our quarterback in his five victories, while mostly playing a conservative game.

But he was also starting to air out the football a bit more often. In our last game, he made three long completions to Bryan Burnham, DeVier Posey, and Watson.

If we want to have any hope of beating Calgary, we can’t restrict Lulay to dink and dunk RPO – the Stamps defense will have our offence well scouted and prepared to jump our prescriptive routes.

Jennings was at his best in our home win against Hamilton, in the fourth quarter, when we abandoned our RPO and took away the reins that bind him. The same needs to be done for Travis Lulay.

Jeremiah Johnson ran for 118 yds. last game, as we finally got some balance back in our offence. Having Jennings throw 47 times while running the football 7 times in a contest, as we did against Hamilton at home is not the easy route to victory. It certainly won’t be against Calgary.

Johnson was finally used well against Toronto, we blocked well, and Johnson had a 6.2 yd. average on 19 carries. Johnson ran the football hard as well as skillfully. So, we’ve benched him and will start Sutton.
On defense, Odell Willis and Shawn Lemon are tied for 3rd in CFL sacks and Devon Coleman is coming off another monster game.
Bo Lokombo continues to be impressive, Herdman continues to play very well too, and showed us last game how hard he can hit. Awe showed improvement last game and it looks like Sol E, who has the same agent as Jennings, is in no hurry to return.

T.J. Lee continues to lead our defense in making big plays while our corner backs, Anthony Orange and Winston Rose are tied for the league lead in interceptions, most of those coming off when we are playing man coverage.

Ty Long’s positional punting was impressive last game and Chris Rainey, by not running it straight up the gut, as instructed but by making two jump cuts, showed he can take it to the house last game, like in his ‘good old days’ before his confidence got shot.

COACHING AND LEADERSHIP
‘Same old won’t cut it against Calgary’
Same old won’t cut it against Calgary. Same old hasn’t cut it for our B.C. Lions for a long time now. Calgary has been the flagship franchise of the CFL, since the arrival of John Hufnagel in 2008 and has continued to be, with Hufnagel retaining the GM’s job while his protégé, Dave Dickenson, as his Head Coach, has continued to ensure the Stamps are the best team in the CFL.

Meanwhile, here in B.C since 2008, Wally Buono has around a .500 won/loss percentage as a Head Coach - not been difficult to attain while feasting on weak East Division weak teams during his close to his 6 years on the sidelines since that year.

Our Leos have only won one playoff game since 2011 and that was in 2016, when Jennings led us to a come from behind win against the Bombers, after a disastrous showingby Mark Washignton’s defense in the first half of that playoff game.

MORALE AND TRUST ARE VERY IMPORTANT FOR SUSTAINED SUCCESS
‘Leadership is the wise and very careful use of power’. Character counts and it counts most, when it comes to leadership’. John Drysdale.
As Lionbackers, from our own work experiences, most of us will know well, how it feels to work in both a healthy and an unhealthy organization, at some point in time, in our careers and work lives.

Healthy organizations lead to high levels of morale and initiative. Leadership in these types of organizations is based upon the leader’s knowledge, adaptability, and ability to inspire, in achieving the organization’s goals. Employee input is sought at various times and employees are viewed as valuable rather than easily replaceable.
The organization is characterized by teamwork and goal sharing. It utilizes the strengths and talents of its employees, rather than being too rigid, in terms of its systems and procedures.
It adapts to opportunities and change. Employees have good relationships with management that are based on trust.

Unhealthy organizations operate very differently. They tend to be organized similarly or have aspects of cults, strict religious organizations, clans, and gangs. Control, Control, and Control is a major goal of these types of organizations.

The leader of this type of organization is usually a rigid, manipulative personality who demands submission. He’s the ‘apostle’ type who also demands rigid obedience. This type of leader rules through fear, intimidation, and repercussion.
An employee or two or even more, will from time to time, is ‘sacrificed’ to ensure that intimidation and fear rule the roost. Any questioning of the leader or the systems that the leader uses are viewed as a threat and the person is considered a heretic. Punishment, fear of rejection, scapegoating, public shaming, and humiliation can all be used as weapons for compliance.
Independent thinking is very discouraged and is also punished. Everything is simplified into black and white. A double standard operates - there is one standard for the followers and another for the leader(s) who can do almost anything wrong. Anyone else can be rebuked, punished, shamed, or made an example of, whether fair or not.
Loyalty to the leader is demanded rather than earned.

The leader does not ‘lead’ through knowledge and inspiration but from the formal authority of his position and the fear of the consequences he is more than willing to hand out. Any individuality is viewed as a threat. Bland conformity is demanded. Creativity is considered a bad word. Everything stays the same.
Anyone who challenges the organization’s rigid doctrine or systems, or procedures is automatically branded as an enemy. The disciples then do the dirty work on behalf of the leader (as a few Lionbackers would know)
The catch phrases of the leader are repeated almost endlessly as a form of mind control. The emotions of employees are not considered because the employees are not viewed as individuals but rather as objects or ‘pieces’ to fulfill the leader’s goals and ego.

Over time, employee morale and confidence diminish, the leader’s power becomes even more absolute. He then may operate more and more like a tin pot dictator of a third world country. (and not benevolent, like Toppy😊

A toxic work environment can develop, whether the employees realize it or not and they often don’t, because it becomes their ‘normal’.
The Calgary Stampeders organization, to me reflects a healthy work organization.

I will leave it to you to decide on whether our Leos organization would be considered healthy or not.

STRATEGY FOR THIS IMPORANT GAME

Rigid systems, on offence, defense and special teams will not give us a chance against Calgary. The Stamps put up 32 points in the first half in their last playoff game against us while we failed to score. They usually beat us, often badly. There usually is little difference in the talent between us but there is a huge difference in the coaching and systems utilized by both teams.
On offence, an overdose of RPO, will be like swallowing our own poison.


On defense, we saw, once again, last game, that reverting to passive zone defense, when we had the lead, was a recipe for potential disaster. Doing so allowed the Argos to mount a fourth quarter comeback.

GAME PLANNING

To beat the Stamps, we’ll need an outstanding game plan, outstanding play calling, and in game adaptability. “Run ‘er up the gut, R(eally) P(redictble) Offence is not the answer nor will ‘bend but don’t break passive zone defence get it done. Calgary will dissect it.

Players executing predictable, simple, tired systems will not do it either, no matter how high a level of execution the players perform at. Nor will adding additional pressure for players to ‘make plays’ overcome the chains of our scheme and play calling be enough.

Nope, what this game really needs, for a win, is not for Lulay or Jennings to look at more game tape but for Wally to engage in less interviews and watch more tape himself.

The the long, long shot would be, that he will have a moment of clarity within the fog. If he could finally see, from the tape, that 'same old' is not cutting it, then the next step would be to adapt, or at least give his coordinators the ok to do so. (and see if they can)
Hopefully, McAdoo’s playbook, which Jarious has probably asked him to mail a copy of, won’t arrive in time and he will have to come up with something else (and anything else would probably work better).
I won’t hold my breath for any of this to happen because same old, has gone on for so many years, in terms of game planning. But miracles do happen, or at least they say they do.

WRAP

Its football. The ball bounces funny sometimes. Even being the most predictable team in the CFL, unpredictability can happen, as it did when Jennings gave us the miracle finish against Hamilton. Until the game is played, you never know for sure.

I thought our Leos would start Jennings on Saturday night, that he would take a pounding and a beating, and be given the blame for the loss. Then we would start Lulay against Edmonton.

But as it stands right now, Lulay will start against Calgary and for the rest of the season. It’s a good thing to be starting Lulay and letting Jennings have the pressure off. He’s helped us get a lot of wins lately and with all the stuff that has been going on about him, it’s better for him to be on the sidelines helping Travis.
Travis also has more experience and right now, with all that is going on, he is also the better choice for that reason too. He also has that rare confidence to yell back at Wally. His experience will help him, should our Leos brass choose to scapegoat him or attempt to make him a sacrfice too. I don't think they will. Lulay is not Rainey or Jeremiah or Jennings - he won't take it and Wally and Ed know it.

Lulay and Jennings, from all accounts, both have had the same work ethic, arriving early, doing extra work before and after practices, and studying tape together in the evenings.
We likely will never see Jennings play another game .in a Leos uniform if Lulay stays healthy. This also may be the swan song for Lulay too. He may become an assistant coach in the future. I would rather see him coach elsewhere if Wally returns. Being ‘mentored’ by Wally as a new coach is not good thing but perhaps, with a good new Head Coach, his future would be better here.

Both Wally and Hervey raved about Sutton. As Jeremiah Johnson, coming off one of his best games of the season is sat out, it will be interesting to watch Sutton play, as he starts at tailback against the Stamps.

There is incredible talent on this team that has often been wasted this season. On occasion, outstanding talent can overcome the worst obstacles. But the frustrating part is that its not the opposition that is giving our talent its toughest obstacles. Those are coming from the leadership inside our own tent.

In a short video clip placed on the Lions website by the Lions p.r. department this week, Wally Buono said the following:
“If comments bother you they shouldn’t. It doesn’t matter what somebody says. What matters is what you think of yourself”.


Wow, and to think I’ve always seen Wally as highly defensive when reacting to comments about his own accountability.

Well, that is good news for Buono disciples. No need to defend him or attack his critics anymore. Seems as if you are not needed and you have been wasting your time on his behalf. Its only what Wally thinks of himself that is important.

Said so himself.
Here is your opportunity sports writers. You just don' just have to throw Leo players under the bus, like you've done in the past. You don't have to fear Wally anymore. He won't care what you write. If you say anything critical about him it won't bother him. He has his own opinion of himself and that is all he says matters.
Its autumn. Its football weather. The dew is on the pumpkin. No more dinky dunking. Time to bang a gong and get it on. We have some really outstanding, exciting Leo players to watch play. It’s a great time for football!!!

Go Leos!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Fred.Fonce
Rookie
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:29 am

Great read Blitz.

I don't comment often but lurk always.

Regarding the media... I've only lived in two markets so don't have a feel for anywhere but here and Edmonton. I always felt the print and radio media in Edmonton to be much more balanced than Vancouver.

The media here are petrified of Wally for some reason, and refuse to objectively criticize the coaching and management of the team.

Ed Willes is part on an overall lack of local media objectivity regarding the Lions and specifically WB, which extends to Hervey it appears.

Listening to the radio pregame a couple weeks ago, Burnsie was asked a question (by one of the crew, can't recall who) that clearly was pertaining to coaching and his response was "I won't go there" and instead criticized the players.

The Canucks on the other hand, are dissected to a ridiculous degree, bordering on lunacy. Pratt dedicated his entire morning show yesterday about Boeser and his slow start, after two games and an offseason spent on rehab!

I can only surmise the media know Wally is going to the HOF, will retire soon and therefore give him a career hall pass.

Ed has done a good job this season with personnel, but his public shaming of Jennings was beyond the pale.

Nothing to be gained other than paving the way for new QB's next year, but still no upside to that strategy even if thats the reason.
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

@Fred.Fonce - it's simple really when it comes to criticizing Wally in this market.

In the past he's challenged media critics to sit in his office and watch video where he can show the breakdowns that led to a TD or that stopped a Lions drive/scoring. Those are on the players always as coaches don't miss blocks or tackles or run a bad route.

It's an effective technique and I don't criticize Wally for this approach entirely but it also doesn't tell the whole story and certainly doesn't deal with scheme and tendency issues where opposing teams know what Lulay has said this year. When Rainey's in the backfield they know it's a run play (and where) and he added that they need to mix it up when he's out there. We don't use the FB like some other teams where it's both blocking and pass catching so the DEF side knows what's on if the FB's out there.

The Blitz notes on Mike Reilly are spot on - your early success as seen with Bo Levi Mitchell aren't the norm. And BLM took over a team that has leadership and succession plans with Dave Dickenson now HC and with players. In BLM's early years a lineman would go down and a new part took over and they didn't miss a beat.

BLM said that as a QB he'd not be successful in Edmonton's offence and he didn't think that Mike Reilly would be successful in Calgary's offence. That is true.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Great read, Blitz.

We hear a lot about ''gaslighting'' in the USA. It is a kind of reality distortion. To some of us, it seems that it happens north of the border also, even in the world of football.

This CFL fan does not like to see players thrown under the bus, criticized publicly, had their commitment called into question, had their smarts insulted, etc.

But we are fans of the team. As a fan, my sympathies are with the players. They risk their health. They have no job security. They cannot speak out for themselves when their character is impugned. I had to look up that word to see if it fits. I think it does.
impugn definition: 1. to cause people to doubt someone's character, qualities, or reputation by criticizing them:
It does not have to be that way. It does not require public shaming. Enlightened management speaks privately to individuals. Why go public? There are reasons, and, imo, they are not good. Setting things up to get rid of a player. Maybe Wally and Ed suspect that Jennings does not drink the KoolAid. Who knows?

There is also the human tendency to find someone to blame for an organization's lack of success. It takes the heat off those at the top. It works. And it creates a toxic environment.

It divides fans also. Divide and conquer. Divide and survive. It puts fear into the rest of the players. You could be the next target. You could be shuffled off the team. It is fear-based leadership.

It seems certain that Jennings will be gone as soon as the season is over. This CFL fan wishes him well. He seems like an easy target. Quiet guy. Quiet demeanor. I hope he continues on in the CFL. I hope he gets to play in a state of the art offence. I hope he gets to play on a team with enlightened management.
.........................

Next year? I expect David Braley to stay on as owner. I expect him to ask Wally to stay on once again as Head Coach. Ed will have to go along with the wishes of Braley. And we get to see more of the same.

The Head Coach sets the philosophy. He gets the systems he wants. He might not get the "execution'' he wants. Grinding offence. "Three yards and a cloud of dust" it was called way back in the day. Soft zone defence, perhaps with some dabbling in pressure defence. Mixed results.

I do not expect to see Lulay back either. He is not exactly a player with unquestioned loyalty to the brass. He shouted back at Wally. He defended Jennings. He is older now. He has had countless injuries.

If it is status quo next year with the management and coaching, I think we can expect mediocre results.

Would Mike Reilly succeed with this team? This fan thinks his results might be about the same as those of Lulay and Jennings. When he got swarmed by the Riders, he coughed up 3 Ints.
......................

Against Calgary.

They have had loads of injuries. But they have Hufnagel, Dickenson and Mitchell to guide the ship. I expect they will have us well-scouted. Not too hard. We do not disguise what we do. We telegraph it. Here we come. Try and stop us. And teams do stop us. Trench warfare.

It seems we can expect much the same offence we have been playing.

Defence? Mark W has played some pressure defence at times. We will see.

Looking forward to the game. Each game brings its own drama.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

The media here are petrified of Wally for some reason, and refuse to objectively criticize the coaching and management of the team.

I don't comment often but lurk always.

Ed Willes is part on an overall lack of local media objectivity regarding the Lions and specifically WB, which extends to Hervey it appears.

Listening to the radio pregame a couple weeks ago, Burnsie was asked a question (by one of the crew, can't recall who) that clearly was pertaining to coaching and his response was "I won't go there" and instead criticized the players.
Fred.Fonce
@Fred.Fonce - it's simple really when it comes to criticizing Wally in this market.

In the past he's challenged media critics to sit in his office and watch video where he can show the breakdowns that led to a TD or that stopped a Lions drive/scoring. Those are on the players always as coaches don't miss blocks or tackles or run a bad route.
Toppy Van

There is also the human tendency to find someone to blame for an organization's lack of success. It takes the heat off those at the top. It works. And it creates a toxic environment.

This CFL fan does not like to see players thrown under the bus, criticized publicly, had their commitment called into question, had their smarts insulted, etc.

But we are fans of the team. As a fan, my sympathies are with the players. They risk their health. They have no job security. They cannot speak out for themselves when their character is impugned

It divides fans also. Divide and conquer. Divide and survive. It puts fear into the rest of the players. You could be the next target. You could be shuffled off the team. It is fear-based leadership.
WCJ
Very happy that you posted Fred.Fonce.

You're analysis and your comparisons with both Edmonton and Vancouver media and also the differences between the Vancouver football and hockey media were vey interesting to read.

Don't be too much of a stranger. :) Your post reflects that you have lots to contribute.

In reading your post Toppy, you certainly have hit on a key strategy by Buono but I also wonder if there is more to it too. It would make an interesting thread of its own.

I always keep in mind the high level of coaching in which you were involved so I read your posts with that always in mind.

I like the word 'inpugn' WCJ. Always intriguing to read you. It's a good descriptive word to describe some of the behaviors and tactics used.

Like you, I cheer for the players. But as someone, like you (and Toppy too) who has both played and coached, I've usually been empathic to coaches and liked many of the Head Coaches who have coached our Leos, including some who did not have a lot of success here.

In terms of the sports writers and media, I have had or have a lot of respect for a few of them. I really liked Jim Taylor - he was different but he worked hard and did his homework. I think Lowell Ullrich is very good and Mike Beamish was willing to go out on a limb, in comparison to most of the others, who might as well be hiding under their mother's dress, when it comes to Buono.

I found myself thinking this thought this week. I imagined Ed Willes as a sports writer, as a young man, early in his chosen career, about the age of Jonathan Jennings.
I imagined Ed Willes boss being interviewed by a television interviewer and when asked about Willes, his boss questioned Ed Willes work ethic and said that he never saw him in the building very much.

I imagined Ed Willes boss stating that if Ed Willes wanted to be an elite reporter, he would need to be more dedicated to his craft and that all the elite reporters that he had ever worked with put in a hell of a lot more time on the job than Willes.

I imagined this interview being on the 6 o'clock news for the entire province to see and hear and with Ed Willes family members, friends, old high school friends, relatives, old girlfriends, and neighbours all watching the newscast.

I wondered, if that happened, would he have a different perspective than he does presently.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Ed says he anwered the questions that were asked. Of course. No problem with that. But he chose to answer those questions by publicly criticizing the commitment and work habits of a player, according to how Hervey saw it. We have all seen and heard many, many head coaches couch their words such that they do not "impugn" the character of the player.

"Yeah, Jon is a young quarterback. We expect he will take the next steps on his road up to the next level. We have spoken to him privately about our expectations. Do we want more from him? Sure, as with all players."

We have seen it and heard it many, many times. Hervey says Don Matthews was tough on him. That was private. This fan does not recall Don Matthews publicly ripping a player, in the media. If he did, this fan would not have liked that either.

Ed Hervey is a step higher on the food chain, on the pecking order, than a Head Coach. He is a General Manager.
I get it people take what is said and then they look at it and go, ‘Oh my goodness’, is he criticising? Did he throw him under the bus? Trust me I got more ways to throw a player under the bus if I chose to do so, but that’s not something that I would ever take any route of doing if it’s undeserving, there is no need for it.
Hervey says he has more ways, other than ripping a player in the media, to throw a player under the bus. God forbid. We don't want to see those other ways. Are those just words Hervey is throwing around? I don't think so. He chose to use those words, almost defiantly. He has the authority, the power, as a boss, to use "more ways" to throw a player under the bus. But not if it is "undeserving." If it is "deserving," then of course he could use more ways. Scary for a player to hear such an approach by management? I would think so.
''My sole responsibility to this football team is to put us in the best position personnel-wise, manage the cap, the roster the best way I can to give us a chance.''
Hervey definitely has more responsibilities than he stated there. He sets an example in the community. Fair play? Hervey says he is not here to be fair. IMO, that is not a good answer, not a good approach to the job. Such an answer would disquaify him in many job interviews, even for football management.
I didn’t come here to be fair, I didn’t come here to be nice ...
Yes. That appears to be honest and true.

He is here to build a team, "to give us a chance." He has said he has no other responsibility. Just words? I don't think so. His behaviors and words are a matter now of public record.

Just IMO, as a CFL fan since 1959, as an advocate for the players, most of whom dare not speak out about fair treatment or unfair treatment. "See ya, Kid. Here is an apple, a map, and a bus ticket out of town." Or maybe that would be too nice. Let's kick him in the pants first.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
DanoT
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter

Interesting, WCJ that you mention Don Mathews as my recollection of him is that he always publicly praised his players.

Ed doesn't seem to realize it but part of his job as a GM is to get people in the seats and publicly expressing dissatisfaction with players is not the way to do it. I think part of the reason for Ed getting fired in Edmonton was that he didn't realize that there was "more to his job than just winning". It doesn't look like Ed has learned anything from the way that job ended.

Wally used to think that all it took to get fans in the stands was winning but has admitted that he was wrong. And a near purrfect home record this season accompanied by sagging attendance is further proof of this.

Ed needs to wake up and do a better job of handling players and addressing the needs of the fans.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

DanoT wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:50 pm
Interesting, WCJ that you mention Don Mathews as my recollection of him is that he always publicly praised his players.

Ed doesn't seem to realize it but part of his job as a GM is to get people in the seats and publicly expressing dissatisfaction with players is not the way to do it. I think part of the reason for Ed getting fired in Edmonton was that he didn't realize that there was "more to his job than just winning". It doesn't look like Ed has learned anything from the way that job ended.

Wally used to think that all it took to get fans in the stands was winning but has admitted that he was wrong. And a near purrfect home record this season accompanied by sagging attendance is further proof of this.

Ed needs to wake up and do a better job of handling players and addressing the needs of the fans.
Yeah, Dano, I just do not remember Don Matthews ripping a player publicly.

Same with the ferocious Vic Rapp. He might have, but I do not remember any such ripping. Keep it internal, private.

And it seems to me most GMs let the Head Coach do the talking about player performance, progression or regression. Hervey did the same thing in Edmonton, stepping over the Head Coach to go public with criticism of a player.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

#1 rule in people management: Praise in public, criticize in private.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Interesting WCJ, that you bring up "The Don' in terms of his approach to coaching players.

Don Matthews would never criticize a player publicly. He also would not allow his assistant coaches (or himself) to ever criticize a player at practice either. The coach was expected to explain to the player what he could do to be better or demonstrate it.

Any criticism would be in private, in other words 'el mano'.
Hervey can talk about his tough background in Watts and Compton, and act all tough when he is in a position of power, but real 'tough guys' don't talk about someone else behind their backs.
That is essentially what Hervey did, knowing that Jennings couldn't fire back.

But the public criticizing, scapegoating, and shaming of Leo players to the media and press, a Wally trademark, finally got blowback because 1) it was Ed who did it rather than Wally 2) Ed went to territory in his criticism of Jennings that was not wise, at all and 3) the criticism and shaming went to character, as well as and the accusation was something that could be verified or not.

There was pushback this time, from Lulay, Matt Dunnigan on TSN, and Jennings agent. Jennings defended himself on Tuesday but that's all he did.

The only two players in the Buono era that I have ever given it back to Wally have been Dave Dickenson and Travis Lulay.

Dickenson, after being publicly criticized for his play by Wally, after a game, gave it back and mentioned Wally's lack of popularity when he was in Calgary and said he didn't play for Wally, he played for his teammates and bully Buono never did it again to Dickenson.
Lulay went back at Wally twice on the sidelines this year. I highly doubt Wally will ever do it again. Lulay stood up the bully.
Ed's public shaming of Jennings was also very poorly timed, just before a game we had to win to keep our playoff hopes alive. Hervey was lucky that Jennings played as well as he did - it could have been a disaster.

What I found surprising, as well as disappointing, this season was Jarious Jackson making critical comments regarding Jennings intelligence to run his offence. Offensive coordinators especially don't criticize their players in public, let alone rookie offensive coordinators.

But Jarious wanted to have it made out that the problems of our offence were not due to his scheme.

It was also more than implied early in the season that our RPO offence was designed for Jennings, when it wasn't. Its basically McAdoo's RPO offence with an orange color and a few tweaks. No one in Saskatchewan or here in Leo Land has been able to do much with it - not Collaros in Riderville or Jennings or Lulay here in B.C.
We've also had Lulay using as much RPO as Jennings, so its a plug and play offence, not particular to either of our quarterbacks. It was designed for neither.
The Riders and B.C. offence rank 6th and 7th in yards per game and there is .7 of a yard difference, in average yds. per game between the two offences. In other words, they are almost identically both lousy.
Lulay will need to 'overcome' our scheme on Saturday if we hope to win. He's capable of doing that but it will not be easy, to say the least.

Lulay came in and had a couple of 300 yd. plus passing games with our RPO offence in his first two starts but our offence could only score 17 points off his 325 yd. passing performance in his second start and it was downhill from there, with only 2 wins in 6 starts, before Lulay was injured 3 times in his next two games, taking hits from unblocked defenders.
In returning to Don Matthews, he is still has the best winning percentage of any Leos Head Coach, not Wally Buono.
Mathews record in B.C. was 11-5, 12-3-1, 13-3, 12-6, and 8-6 before being fired, with 2 games left in his final season as Leos Head Coach.

Most of the press and media in B.C. were thrilled to see Mathews fired and played a big role in his firing. Matthews had an anxiety disorder and was very uncomfortable talking to the press and media. The press and media did not care about Mathews record of success.

They wanted Matthews to make them feel 'significant' and be more enthusiastic, in terms of spending more time with them, one on one.

Buono understands that those in the media and press have 'ego' needs. Its not just about a quote, although mostly it is. But tts how he makes them 'feel'. He makes them feel important and significant because he always has loads of time for them, and that 'inflates' them.
Wally, I believe views them simply, as 'quote chasers' and Wally needs them to sell his Kool Aid, so he is gives them their quotes and knows that will likely satisfy all their reporting wants and then they will write the story. Works every time.
Most of them don't just drink the Kool Aid. They guzzle it down, without question or analysis.

On occasion, the reporter will throw in player quote like "Root, toot, we just gotta execute, gotta make more plays, cut down on mistakes', look in the mirror', and there you have it - sports 'journalism' in the Buono era, with a caveat to a Ullrich or a Beamish.

This is passed off as good media and press relationships but the major purpose, IMO, is that Wally uses them and they are happy to be used because Wally makes them feel significant and makes their jobs easy.
It works because too many in our press and media seem to be lazy. Instead of doing some sports journalism, its easy to recount the game and add in the Wally quotes and there you have it - Wally's spin of the game and the players he wants to scapegoat when we lose.
Why do we like reading Lowell Ullrich so much? Because he puts in the work and he also gives us some actual investigative sports journalism rather than just regurgitating some Wally quotes.
But mostly what we get is a statistical story of the game combined with a bunch of Wally quotes and that is the only version of the story most Leos fans receive (and of course its distorted).
It works for both parties. All the reporter has to do is watch the game and do a quick interview with Wally and all Wally has to do is provide his altered version of reality, throw a player or two under the bus to deflect from his lack of success here for too long a period of time, and Wally continues to be treated with kid gloves.
The reporter or media person also gets lots of Wally's attention and that makes them feel like Wally considers them important, when they are only being used to pass out his flavor of Kool Aid for the moment.
Of course, Wally needs to be available to the press and media but there is an appearance that he is on a press and media junket, rather than focusing on coaching.
When is the last time you have read or head anyone in the press or media even mention one thing about Wally's terrible game management decisions, let alone his long standing pattern of poor game decision making?

We have only one playoff win since 2011. That was in 2016, when after Washington's defense imploded in the first half and Jonathan Jennings managed to bring us back from the brink with an incredible second half and late game heroics.
Heck, we were down 32-0 at half time against Calgary in the WDF in 2016 and there was hardly a sniff, from the press or media of our Leos coaching staff not having our team prepared adequately, and being badly outcoached.
Calgary dissected our defense and jumped our routes on offence and stuffed our inside run game.

The media and press appear have been very complicit in enabling Wally to dump on our players for years, while he has been given the 'Teflon treatment'.
In other words, both the press/media, and Wally are scratching each other's backs, at the expense of players and fans, and sports readers too, because none are receiving balanced reporting.

That is why Lionbackers website is so important. Without it or a Lowell Ulrich, we would only be drinking Wally's Kool Aid.
I almost have to laugh when Wally and Hervey basically state the public shaming of our players should not bother them.

Yet both are sure passionate when it comes to the rare times they are under the gun for their own reputations, whether its Buono over-reacting to a question of his own accoutablity

"Accountale for what? For putting players on the field and trusting them?What are they going to do, fire me? What do I care?" was one Wally's reactions or Ed Hervey going on and on about how hard he works and how early he gets up".

Why be so sensitive guys? You expect your players to be shamed and be mentally tough' yet there is 'an appearance' of a 'girly man' reaction when either of you are under scrutiny.
Seems like you two need to mentally 'toughen up'.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Another recent thought I've had, regarding the 'media/press is that its almost as if they are living in the past regarding Buono.

Each game, they trot out the 'winningest coach' comment and it tends to dismiss his record after 2007, which is around .500. With so many weak teams in the East to feast on (and the Bombers and Saskatchewan in the West were very weak for a period of time too) a .500 record was easy to attain for even an average team.

As our Head Coach for almost 6 of those seasons now, Buono has had 3 losing seasons -2009 (8-10), 2010 (8-10) and 2017 (7-11) and we have had a losing record for most of this season.
As GM or as HC/GM, we've only won 1 playoff game since 2011, and that was in 2016, when our defense gave up 24 first half points and then Jennings led us back to an almost miracle finish.
We've only won 2 Grey Cups in Buono's entire time here. During that time, Toronto and Edmonton won the Grey Cup 3 times, and Saskatchewan, Calgary, and Montreal also won it twice during Buono's time here in B.C.

Its almost as if our press and media are still living back in 2011. In fact, they have brought up the 2011 season numerous times in their articles this season.
There is no question that we could win the Grey Cup this year. The talent is definitely and certainly here to do so.
But its also important to remember that our starting quarterback under Buono has always had his best season in his first season as a starter and that has been the case from Dickenson, Printers, Jackson, Pierce, Lulay and Jennings.

Only one quarterback, Dave Dickenson, was able to win a Grey Cup for us when it was past his first season. We also needed an outstanding Dave Ritchie coached defense to help him achieve that goal.
Like Dickenson in 2006, Lulay is a bashed up warrior. His courage and love of the game amaze me. You would have to have both in abundance to fight through and rehab all the injuries he's had.
We have the talent on defense to help him achieve another Grey Cup victory. If any Leo deserves it, its him.

But it would be foolish to put it all on his back. He can only play his role and there are a lot of roles that need to be fulfilled for us to win a Grey Cup or even get to play in the game this season.
Those roles include excellent leadership and coaching, offensive and defensive coordination, scheme, game planning, game adaption, game management, and each player playing at the top of their game.
Too often, we put it all on the quarterback or think that just changing quarterbacks is the only answer for future success.

And once again Ed Willes primarily focuses on the quarterbacking change as the 'answer' , while also dumping on Jennings again with comments as:
The indomitable veteran hasn’t exactly torn up the league this season but, since returning from off-season knee surgery in Week 5, he’s provided a level of competent, consistently pro quarterbacking that Jennings hasn’t.
and:
Jackson, of course, didn’t come right out and say that. But there was no misinterpreting his message when he was asked about the quarterbacking change and what it means to the Lions.
The reality is that both Lulay and Jennings are close in terms of quarterback efficiency. Jennings has a better pass percentage, Lulay a better average yds. per catch, Jennings and Lulay have both put up close to exactly the same amount of offensive points. Both have given us big wins in their first start when returning to the starting postion. We've won 6 of 8 games with Jennings at the controls for all game or most of the game.
But Willes basically says that Jennings is not a competent pro quarterback, even though Lulay and Jennings stats are close. Makes me wonder if Willes isn't part of Ed Hervey's staff.
Jennings not only was our quarterback for 5 of our last 6 wins, including our last one, against Toronto (we lost in Toronto with Lulay) and he sure looked competent when leading us to a miracle finish against Hamiton at home. Yes, he threw 3 interceptions in Hamilton but so did Reilly throw 3 interceptions last week and Bo Levi threw two of them last week too.
This is not about my preference at quarterback for the rest of this season.. My preference is to go with Lulay too (if he is truly healthy). Its about unfairness. Its about hanging a young quarterback out to dry and its wrong, wrong, wrong.
Lulay does give us that experience right now and that does provide more comfort and with the trashing that Jennings has received lately, it also makes sense to go with Lulay, whose psyche has to be better.

But putting in a more experienced quarterback hasn't always worked either. It didn't work for the 2004 Grey Cup, the 2005 WDF, nor the 2007 WDF for example because you need more than just an experienced quarterback to win.

You also need good scheme, game plans, etc. etc .

Both Lulay and Jennings have shown the ability to play lights out to win a big game in the past. But winning is not as simple as just changing the starting quarterback. That may work for a game or two, when he comes in fresh but over time, its impossible for a quarterback to always play 'lights out' or pull off 'miracle finishes;.
The game of musical chairs starting quarterback has been played by Buono for a long, long time
.

He played it with Dickenson and Printers, Pierce and Jackson, Printers and Lulay in 2010, and he's played it with Lulay and Jennings back again and again. He made Lulay Jennings mentor, then last season he went with Jennings and then Lulay and this season its been back and forth.
Changing the quarterback (and creating quarterback controversies too) seems to be the only solution for future success by Buono and the press continue to give us that Kool Aid.
Ed Willes, while dumping on Jennings again, did not even hint of Jackson's offensive stats this season, where we are the 7th ranked offence in the CFL, with both Lulay and Jennings at quarterback.
Nope. ignore that and all Willes gives us is a pity party for Jackson's lost computer, even though he didn't even lock his valuables in his trunk, rushing to go to a bar to watch an MMA fight after the game.

[/quote]This stuff just goes on and on.
Much easier to dump on a young quarterback than even question the coachng staffs lack of success with our offence this season.
Plus, they still treat Buono as if he is a demi-god and they have for a long time now, when the myth should have been over.

We had many coaches who were successful for a period of time from Matthews, Scrien, Ritchie and all were fired.
Don Mathews was fired after four very, very successful seasons and we were 8-6 when he was let go. Ritchie was 10-8, 11-6 and 10-8 and was fired. Dave Scrien was 12-4 and we played in the Grey Cup game in 1963, 11-2-3 in 1964 and we won the Grey Cup, and two losing seasons later and he was gone.
In no other time period have we had the patience to stick with a Head Coach for so long, with the results that Buono has had for a long time now.

Sticking with Buono as either GM or HC or both was one thing, even when not making the playoffs last season.
But our press and media continuing to give Buono the demi-god treatment, throughout last season and this one too, so far, could only be described as astounding.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

Just to be clear, I'm not taking issue with others' comments on the coaching and Wally Buono as I was no fan of him coming back this season and voiced that numerous times as I didn't think it'd benefit the team if he was coaching it. I was in favour of him being VP but leaving the football behind. In fact, I thought it'd have been smart to have made him President and keep him talking football in the community!

I thought I'd post some comments I'd likely have made if Wally had said goodbye to coaching so here it goes:

Wally has the respect of the entire CFL for his record, longevity and total commitment to the CFL and others in the CFL and WINS - ain't no one catching him anytime soon!!! Wally was GM and HC in two good franchises whereas some coaches like Don Matthews, Dave Ritchie and others have not had his loyalty to the franchises they were lucky enough to work in. I'm not faulting other coaches for moving around but I'm giving Wally a ton of accolades for this.

If there is one person those fired speak (GMs, HCs) to in the CFL, you'll always here that person say Wally Buono. It might be months later that it comes out but all I've heard or read suggests that if you're unceremoniously tossed out of your job and you want an empathetic ear, you'll find it in this guy.

Is he the HC most likely to get a Christmas card from former players - no but that's not unusual.

As much as it can be frustrating at times with his teams and coaching overall the CFL and BC is better for his contribution and commitment to stability versus those who come to the CFL and vanish for personal and other reasons to down south.

Wally deserves some respect as much as the criticism.....

I still can't believe I'm not criticizing Ed Hervey - as I sure did when he was with the Eskimos hahahha

For Jennings sake and career I hope he learns and benefits from this.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Jamie Nye is predicting a B.C. upset in this game and I agree that the Stamps are ripe for a B.C. upset win.

The Stamps offence is not the juggernaut it has been in previous seasons. They've also had to deal with injuries of late but even in the first half of this season, their offence was not as dominant as previous seasons.

I see a few reason for this. First of all, Bo Levi Mitchell has been the best protected quarterback in the CFL in the past. Some games, he could have almost roasted hot dogs in the pocket before throwing. Not as much this season and without the time to throw that he has had in the past, its shown.

Bo Levi has only completed 61.3% of his passes to date this season. He does not handle pressure so well. I don't think Bo Levi Mitchell would have fared well as a Lion quarterback.

Calgary is 4th in rushing yds. and 4th in passing yards this season.

The Stamps receiving group is decimated. Marken Michel was the latest go on the Stamps 6 game injury list as he was injured in the Montreal game. Kamar Jordan, their star receiver is gone for the season. Davaris Daniels is also out long term and Begelton has a broken arm and is gone for the season.

The Stamps Eric Rogers is back but had knee surgery this season.

The Stamps are very vulnerable.

If there is one defensive line that can get consistent good pressure on Bo Levi, its our Leos defensive line. Lemon, Willis, and Coleman have the skills and determination to make it a tough game for Bo Levi.

In his last game against Montreal, Bo Levi and his offensive colleagues did not score a point on Montreal's defense for 3 quarters of the game. Calgary won the game 12-6.

Bo Levi only connected on 58% of his passes for 199 yds. and threw 3 interceptions.

Our Leos definitely can win this game. Lulay is coming in fresh and we will likely pound Sutton and that should allow Lulay the time he needs to throw.

We all saw the difference a ground game made last week with Jeremiah running the football. A balanced attack will keep Calgary's defense honest.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
Riderfan67
Rookie
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:34 pm

Cheering hard for you guys , Calgary’s injuries imo are affecting their depth big time !
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

"Interesting" article by Ed Willes on Sutton getting the start on Saturday. I've quoted a few of the more interesting comments below, along with the full article..

The article certainly creates the appearance that the problem of our Leos second and short lack of success this season has been only due or mostly due to Jeremiah Johnson.

What is missing from the article is the long history of our Leos lack of success for many, many seasons on second and short and its hurt us, no matter who our tailback was - Harris, Logan, Johnson, Rainey, Anthony Allen, etc. Big and strong or quick and fast, we've always had them run it up the gut.
One would think that Ed Willes, who has been covering Leos football for a long time, would know that. Andrew Harris got more than frustrated with it and on a few occasions too!
As for Johnson only having one 100 yd. rushing game, why didn't Willes also point out that our Leos are 8th in rushing attempts. When you don't run the football very much and you also have a rotational tailback system, 100 yd. rushing games are difficult to achieve.

Nope, better for readers to think that Johnson has not been an effective tailback for us. More Kool Aid.
One would also think that Willes would at least have a question for Wally regarding our Leos strategy on second and short, since our success rate is so low.
We've also attempted to use Rainey on second and short, attempting to hammer him inside as well, and quite recently, we gave Lumbala a shot at second and short, with the same dismal result.

Certainly, Sutton, well known for being a north south runner, should be able to hammer it inside a little better.
But why not ask the question "Why do we always hammer it inside or the term I use "Run 'er up the gut'.
Most CFL teams don't do that. They mix it up on second and short. Sometimes, they go off-tackle. Sometimes they go zone read or counter. For example, the Bombers don't hammer Harris inside on every second and short - they also go off-tackle with him and Johnson is better running off-tackle than Harris is.
Why did Willes not ask the question? Didn't think of it? I doubt it. Just didn't want to go there, is the most likely answer. I realize that is speculation but once again the pattern is there:
1)A Teflon free ride for Buono and our coaching staff
2) More than an appearance that its only the players fault. This time, rather than Rainey or Jennings being picked on, its Jeremiah Johnson's fault that we have not been successful on second and short and that is what people will read this morning in their morning sports section.


No big deal? Well, it should be. Its not only unbalanced coverage again but its also very unfair to Leo players when this kind of stuff continues unabated.

Below are some excerpts from the article
While the Lions have been satisfied with Johnson’s numbers, they haven’t been satisfied with the team’s conversion rate on second-and-short and Johnson’s work in pass protection. Sutton should be an upgrade in both areas.
Now 31, getting the tough yards has been his forte throughout his career. While he battled injuries in his five-plus years with the Als, Sutton averaged 5.6 yards per carry and led the CFL with 1,059 rushing yards in 2015.
Sutton should be an upgrade in both areas. With the weather about to turn, he also figures to get a long look as the primary ball carrier.
Ed Willes: Lions' running backs on collision course with Stampeders, each other

While the Lions have been satisfied with Johnson’s numbers, they haven’t been satisfied with the team’s conversion rate on second-and-short and Johnson’s work in pass protection. Sutton should be an upgrade in both areas.

Ed Willes Updated: October 11, 2018

Provided you’ve played more than a couple of years in the CFL, the beauty of the league is you’re no more than one degree of separation removed from any player on any roster.

Take, for example, the case of Jeremiah Johnson and Tyrell Sutton.
Their paths first crossed at the 2009 NFL combine when the two college stars — Sutton at Northwestern, Johnson at Oregon — were auditioning for the draft. Alas, neither player would be selected, but the next year they met again at the Carolina Panthers’ training camp. Three years after that, Sutton caught on with the Montreal Alouettes just before Johnson landed in Ottawa with the Redblacks.

Now here they are, almost a decade later, competing for a job with the B.C. Lions.

“It’s about perspective,” says Sutton. “We all know each other and what we can do. It could have been weird coming in but with the level of respect we have for each other, it wasn’t a difficult transition.”

But that doesn’t make it any less interesting.

Sutton, acquired in a trade with the Alouettes three weeks ago, is scheduled to draw into the Lions’ lineup on Saturday against Calgary, and that development is notable on a number of fronts.

Johnson, for starters, is coming off his most productive game of the season, a 118-yard performance in the 26-23 win over Toronto that represents the first time a Lions back went over 100 yards on the season.

Through the first 14 games, Johnson has been a productive player — seventh in the CFL with 633 rushing yards, 40 catches on 41 targets for another 308 yards — but the Lions have been looking for a more physical presence in the run game this season.

That led to the trade for Sutton and a comprehensive review of the running-back position. The Lions have been trying to figure out a way to get both backs into the offence and both are set to dress Saturday.

Where they go from there is the next question but, with four games left on the Leos’ regular-season schedule, it seems the feature back’s job is an open competition.

“Don’t get me wrong,” said Johnson. “Tyrell Sutton is a great running back and I’m pretty sure he’s going to get his shot. But I’m still the starting running back. That’s my role.”

But for how long?

“I know what (Sutton) brings to the table,” said Lions head coach Wally Buono. “He’s a guy who runs physical, runs hard. You saw last week Jeremiah did that and our running game was more productive.I’ve always said I like the backs to be more north and south.”

While Tyrell Sutton was productive as a running back for the Montreal Alouettes before his trade to B.C., his career ever since college has been marred by a slew of injuries.

Which just happens to be Sutton’s MO. While the Lions have been satisfied with Johnson’s numbers, they haven’t been satisfied with the team’s conversion rate on second-and-short and Johnson’s work in pass protection.

Sutton should be an upgrade in both areas. With the weather about to turn, he also figures to get a long look as the primary ball carrier.

“We all bring something different to the table and what we were lacking is the will to run through some people,” Sutton said. “That’s my niche. It’s the time of year when people don’t want to get hit so much. Summertime ball is over. You’ve got to start running the ball.”

Now 31, getting the tough yards has been his forte throughout his career. While he battled injuries in his five-plus years with the Als, Sutton averaged 5.6 yards per carry and led the CFL with 1,059 rushing yards in 2015.

Before that he bounced from the Packers to Carolina, where he spent a season with the Panthers, to Seattle where he was released in 2012.
Sutton, in fact, seemed destined for bigger things before he ran into a litany of injuries over his final three seasons at Northwestern.

As a freshman, he ran for 1,474 yards and was named the offensive freshman of the year by Sporting News. In high school, he was named Mr. Football in Ohio in his senior year at Archbishop Hoban in Akron, where the 9-1 Knights had their way with archrivals St. Mary-St. Vincent.


“We beat them four times,” Sutton reports. “Make sure you put that in.”
Consider it done. But the high school rivalry was notable for other reasons. In Sutton’s early years at Hoban, St. Mary-St. Vincent featured a star receiver who you may have heard of: LeBron James.

James and Sutton were also teammates in peewee ball in Akron — James the quarterback, Sutton the running back — before the future hoops icon grew a couple of inches and moved to receiver in high school.
James ultimately chose basketball over football after his sophomore year.

Two years later, he went from St. Mary-St. Vincent to the NBA where he was named the rookie of the year, but you’re invited to imagine the force of nature he must have been on the high school gridiron.

“He knew his future was in basketball but football was his first love,” said Sutton. “He could have been great at it.”

That’s OK. He’s done all right in that other thing.
ewilles@postmedia.com
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Post Reply