Who Is Running Our Offence??

[Blitz]

I find it interesting that some posters still only think Chapdelaine is our receiver's coach. Last game, at least fans got to see Chapdelaine do what he has been doing all season and that is calling our plays from the spotters booth...the only difference is this time they got to see him doing it!!

Chapdelaine did come down from the sidelines once, earlier in the season, when Kruck had to be absent from a game for personal reasons, and called the plays from there. When asked by Lowell Ullrich if he would rather be on the sidelines calling the plays he said he would prefer to be on the sidelines but said it wasn't an issue. In 2004, Chapdelaine was in the booth for most of the season but as we appoached the final games of that season, Chapdelaine was put on the sidelines to call the plays while Steve Burratto, our offensive coordinator was banished to the spotters booth.

Jaques Chapdelaine returned to our Leos this off-season at the request of a few offensive players who went to Buono and asked for his return. Buono, earlier in the off-season, had stated that there was no vacancy open for Chapdelaine, after a record setting season for wins last year, with Kruck and Dorazio. However, Buono changed his mind after the meeting, requesting by a few offensive players, and let go Jamie Baresi, last year's receivers coach. Baresi would soon be hired by the Saskatchewan Roughriders as their new running backs coach.

It was initially assumed that Chapdelaine would be returning to B.C., after being fired by the Edmonton Eskimos last year. Dan Dorazio was essentially promoted as our sole offensive coordinator, with Steve Kruck, who was our co-offensive coordinator last season and our play caller, returning to his previous role as our quarterback's coach. While we won a record 14 victories last season, there were questions by some about the co-offensive coordinator system.

However, in the off-season Wally Buono also announced that Chapdelaine would also be our play caller this season, therefore creating at least a co-offensive coordinator role for Chapdelaine and in reality, the offensive coach who calls the plays is really in the drivers seat and viewed by the players as the guy in charge of the offence.

Now Jaques Chapdelaine will be on the sidelines for what will likely be the remainder of the season and Steve Kruck will be sent upstairs to spot. What caused this change? Wally Buono being happy with our offfensive performance against Montreal? Dan Dorazio going to Wally to suggest that Chapdelaine return to the sidelines? No!!!!! The reason for the change in the future will be because a "group" of players requested that Chapdelaine be down on the sidelines so they could have more diaglogue and input during games. If anyone didn't see this coming they would have had to be blind!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no problem with Chapdelaine calling the plays from the sidelines. That's where he wants to be and it makes the most sense, rather than have the charade of having Chapdelaine in the booth. Chapdelaine is in charge of our offence and has been since the day he returned. One question that could be asked is how much difference did that change make against Montreal? It's hard to say. We had our best offensive line blocking this season and we were also playing against a weak Montreal defensive backfield that also was dealing with injuries to two of their defensive backs in the fourth quarter. However, the offensive coordinator can get a better feel of the tempo of the game from the sidelines and having a spotter, rather than a play caller upstairs has generally been a more successful approach.

What concerns me is that a 'group' of offensive players has so much influence on our Leos. If suddenly, Ty Williams, Otis Floyd, and Korey Banks went to Wally and said we want Mike Roach or Mark Washington calling the defensive play calls instead of Mike Benevedes we'd be sure wondering who was running our defense. A number of us are aware of the close relationship between Jaques Chapdelaine and a small group of offensive players. That close relationship caused problems last season, even when Chapdelaine was not here, because they whined about missing him and made things tough at times for our offensive coaches last season, even though the wins kept coming.

I'm been very pleased with Jaques Chapdelaine's coaching the past two games. I especially thought he called a good football game against Montreal, although I am not enamored at all by his use of the jumbo formation in short yardage situations because I believe it gives an edge to the defense.

I still believe Chap's offensive scheme and play calling hurt us this season until the past two games. Edmonton, which is 6-3 also credit's Rick Worman for Edmonton's resurgance and not too subtedly points the finger at Chapdealine for their offence's poor showing last year. Dan Barnes recent article, regarding Edmonton being able to compete for the West Championship, noted:

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" I still think offensive coordinator Rick Worman and backup quarterback Jason Maas are two of the bigger factors and the funny thing is their impact was likely felt more in the off-season than it has been since. Worman and Maas would have been in there fighting for a bolder offensive slant on things during crucial meetings aimed at re-stocking a playbook that had been depleted of imagination and efficacy. And there is no doubt the new philosophy -- call it unpredictable or multi-faceted, call it explosive as running back A.J. Harris chooses, or pick a buzzword -- has been at the heart of their renaissance.

They boast a running game, on occasions when they choose to give Harris the ball 20 times. They throw it deep, whenever they feel like it. They force the defence into uncomfortable situations in every quarter, win or lose. In short, they act like they know what they're doing with the ball at all times. Try to say that about the 2006 and 2007 teams -- with a straight face"

They don't just meekly take what crumbs the defence hands out underneath, which in so many cases last year was the patented Ricky Ray eight-yard completion, a consistently fine result right up until they needed 10 yards."We shoot first and ask questions last, as opposed to taking what they give us," said Peterson. "But we're not stupid with it. There are still times we have to take what they give us but we definitely force the issue more.

(Dan Barnes, CanWest News)

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The big question to me is can Chapdelaine sustain what he has done the past two games, in terms of game planning and play calling? Have we made the move to becoming a multi-dimensional offence or is this an abberation? I'd like to think he has. There is no question that Chapdelaine calls better games for Buck Pierce than he does for Jarious Jackson. Chapdelaine moves Buck Pierce in the pocket more and gives him more designed plays that are higher percentage plays. Last game he ran a lot of designed screens and swings for Stefan Logan and used him more on second down whereas Chapdelaine was inserting Green for blocking on second down a lot for Jackson. Add in the fact that Buck is a more accurate passer and more designed for Chapdelaine's higher percentage underneath passing game and our offence should play better. However, it still comes down to the offensive line and our offensive line continuing to play the inspired football they did last game.

However, Buck will also face some tough obstacles in the West. The Riders know how to play Chapdelaine's underneath passing attack. Dave Dickenson, another accurate, high percentage passer had his struggles against Richie Hall, who knew how to crowd the underneath game. Hufgnagel will likely do the same. What was successful against Montreal may not be as successful against tough Western defenses, who also have better defensive backfield's than Montreal.

The key will be to have a multi-dimensional, unpredictable offence that uses all of our weapons. It means not only the ability to utilize Stefan Logan in the passing attack, which took too long for us to figure out. It also means finding a way, if we don't have Joe Smith in the lineup, to scheme our running game to get the tough yards when we need them. It will also mean creating ways for Buck to go vertical successfully when defenses start to zone the hell out of our underneath stuff.

While the book is still out for me, regarding Chapdelaine's offensive philosophy, I am conforted by the knowledge that our offence is beginning to adapt. We've gone from the ace back, five receiver set, to a multi-formation offence, although it took too long to get there. We are moving the pocket more. We are using the screen and dump game to Logan rather than just using our tailback or fullback on second down as a blocker. We do move our receivers around more this season and are getting better matchups by the way we have done that recently.

However, I'm still disturbed by the fact that a small group of offensive players have so much influence on this Leos squad. This group of players want Chapdelaine as their offensive coordianator. They really now have him as our offensive coordiantor. Our Leos would be doing fans a service is they just announced that Chapdelaine was the offensive coordinator. That would clear up any confusion for fans and players and it would place the responsibility, along with the control, where it should be!!!



"

[notahomer]

...
While it is disconcerting to have a group of players lobbying for a particular coach or scheme, this probably goes on all the time but you just don't hear about it.

It's especially puzzling considering what an awful regular season record the Lions had last season

Unfortunately, I think many Lions fans are fans of the 'joy-stick' style running game but not so sold on the style of offence we had last season (in spite of the won/loss record). I guess it's a balance. When talking to the media you say 'whatever the team wants' but if you don't get your catches/yards you get cut.

[PigSkin_53]

However, I'm still disturbed by the fact that a small group of offensive players have so much influence on this Leos squad. This group of players want Chapdelaine as their offensive coordianator. They really now have him as our offensive coordiantor. Our Leos would be doing fans a service is they just announced that Chapdelaine was the offensive coordinator. That would clear up any confusion for fans and players and it would place the responsibility, along with the control, where it should be!!!

This is exactly the reason it is purposefully confused as such, as subterfuge will keep the hounds befuddled and off the scent.

It is a very crass play not paying the supporters of this team any intelligence or respect, and in fact thumbing their noses at those who see right through their tawdry ploy.

[Blitz]

They did announce a couple of times on the TSN broadcast that Chaps was the Lions Co-Offensive Coordinator. Not sure if they just assumed this, as he looks and acts like the OC on the sidelines?

One theory is Chaps was actually hired as our OC, but the Lions officially refer to him as their Receivers Coach so the Esks would continue to compensate him this season for the amount over and above his Lions salary, that he would have received as the Esks OC & Asst. Head Coach. His Esks contract probably paid Chaps $120-$150k this season, while the Lions would probably pay a Receivers Coach $60k-$80k. This could be similar to the J. Barresi situation in 2006 when reportedly he "volunteer" coached for one season with the Lions, while the Ti-Cats continued to pay is OC salary for the remainder of his contract. It is known that CFL teams honour the contracts of Coordinators and Head Coaches when they are fired, until they find another comparable coaching position in football.

While it is disconcerting to have a group of players lobbying for a particular coach or scheme, this probably goes on all the time but you just don't hear about it.

I think you make a very astute point John Henry, with regard to Edmonton paying the difference between Chap's receivers salary for our Leos this season and Edmonton paying him his offensive coordinator's salary.

However, that's only a part of the story. Wally could have hired Chapdelaine as our receiver's coach at the end of last season but instead chose not to. He hired Chapdelaine followiing a meeting with a small group of players, after he had originally decided not to. He also moved Chapdelaine to the sidelines last game, following a meeting with a small group of players.

I have no problem with players having input into a team. In fact, a coach is wise, at times, to listen to the thoughts of his players.
However, the decision to bring Chapdelaine back in his present role also had to do a lot with optics. Chapdelaine was as popular as eboli virus at the end of last season with Edmonton and other CFL teams didn't want to hire him. His offensive scheme was not popular with a lot of Leos fans. We were coming off a 14 win season. All those things meant at least keeping the illusion of having Dorazio as our offensive coordinator. It was easier to demote Kruck, although he had been our play caller during our 14 wins.

There are different ways that coaches receive input from players. Most of the time, that comes from individual players and on a rare occasion in the CFL, from their agent, but that usually only happens with high priced players. Quarterbacks have more input than most players and that usually comes out of quarterback meetings with their offensive coordinator. Team meetings or even unit meetings can involve representatives bringing forward thoughts to the Head Coach or coordinator.

However, when the decisions that have been made, based upon the input of a small group of players, are much more significant than is usual. Their input is having a direct influence on who coaches our offence, in terms of it's leadership, philosophy, scheme, and play calling.

The question to ask is ...was Joe Smith, last season's touchdown leader, the CFL's leading rusher, and the tailback who played such an important role in our 2006 Grey Cup win, involved in the input to bring Chapdelaine back this season? You'll find the answer is no. Was Jason Jiminez, our right tackle, involved in this meeting, an offensive tackle who played such an important role in the creation of the culture of our offensive line, who also led us to a Grey Cup victory in 2006, and had an excellent season in 2007? Was Kelly Bates, an all-star guard last season? Was Sherko Rasouli, whose blocking last season also played a vital role in the most powerful running attack in the league? Did Stefan Logan, our new tailback, who is right now, the key to our offensive attack? Was Jarious Jackson, our starting quarterback for most of this season and last involved in this decision. I think you'll find the answers are no.

Are any defensive players involved in this group..or are any of our defensive captains involved...since what happens with our offence, in terms of it's direction, has a direct influence on our future success. I think you'll also find the answers are also no.

There is background to the issue of Chapdelaine and a small group of players. It goes to the heart of the 2004 and the move of Chapdelaine to the sidelines towards the end of that season to call the plays (and the drop of our offensive performance that year, including our Grey Cup loss). It goes back to the release of Steve Burratto. It goes to the heart of the quarterback controversy with Casey Printers and Dave Dickenson. It goes to the heart of the dissension last season with Steve Kruck from a very small group of players.

Football teams have team captains and that is the way that information flows from an offensive unit or a defensive unit after all have had input. However, when a small group of players, from a team's offence or defense, have undue influence, whether that influence is good or bad, it still has ramifications within a football team, unless their input has gone through the appropriate process. Usually those ramifications are not positive, over the long term.

The questions that are asked are..is the decision in the best interests of the team first or is it in the best interests of that small group of players first. Does that small group of players have a special relationship with a particular coach and is their input also a reflection of what that coach wants as well as what they want? Will that special relationship be a factor in the future of the players excluded from the small group? Does the small group represent the views of all the players on the offence? If so, why weren't they asked? How does the decison impact the group of players who are not part of the small group.

Overall, while I have no quarrel with the decision I don't think this is a healthy thing, to have decisions being made, with the process that is being taken. It's a small group of players acting on their own accord. If Wally thought that having Chapdelaine being on the sidelines, he should have made that decision. What has happened is really saying that he got it wrong, until his players got it right. What it's also saying is that Wally didn't make the right decision with regard to his view of not wanting to bring back Chapdelaine in the first place in the off-season or his decison to park him upstairs to call the plays. It makes Wally look foolish in some ways.

It also begs the question as to who is running this ship. In some ways it gives the optics that a small group of players and Chapdelaine himself, working together, have a lot of power on this team and perhaps more than they should have. Personally, it makes me feel uncomfortable.

[Game Day, Baby!]

Mr. Blitz: As long as you refer to your inside power goup only as "a small group of players" your accusations are meaningless. Have the courage to name them.

[Toppy Vann]

Mr. Blitz: As long as you refer to your inside power goup only as "a small group of players" your accusations are meaningless. Have the courage to name them.

You might want to do some basic research before you make statements like this.

This is Lowell Ullrich's article in The Province Sunday below where you can hear this from the HC himself who was doing a Q and A with the reporter.

"- But as for the move that may have the most long-term upside given the season-high 505 net yards total offence, will receivers coach and play-caller Jacques Chapdelaine remain where he belongs on the sidelines after switching places Friday with quarterbacks assistant Steff Kruck?

Thanks to a request by a group of players that was agreed upon last week by offensive co-ordinator Dan Dorazio, that change will be permanent.

"The players came [forward] because they want more dialogue and input [during games]," said Buono. "I'm glad Dan did what he did.""

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/ ... 0b326e7f0a
----------------------------

Many posters here question the small group of always unnamed players (believed to be receivers based on last year's success running and Geroy's complaining about play calling last year (all this in the paper's!!!!) who seem to have so much input at the same time the team is losing more than it won when the bad calling was taking place.

It is a question that the owner might want to ask of his GM/HC. Who is running the place? If these decisions are so good, why is it that you need the players to tell you to make them?

Wally is not looking like Commander-in-Chief much like George Bush doesn't. At least the OC is not making play calling from an undisclosed location.

Maybe it is time for the defensive players to lay a meeting on Buono so we can get back to lock down U on D.

Or maybe the running backs need a meeting to get a better goal line scheme.

I think that the unnamed player meetings leading to decisions from the GM/HC are a distraction and a sign that things are not right as this talented team is all of sudden looking like a playoff game in the east (if that).

It didn't help that the only laptop got stolen that had all the Lions player evaluations, games plans for the O - that is a sign the organization isn't what it should be.

The losses mount as the number of small group meetings increases.

It is time for bolder leadership and getting things right.

[Blitz]

Mr. Blitz: As long as you refer to your inside power goup only as "a small group of players" your accusations are meaningless. Have the courage to name them.

Deal...if you name who you are and are able to confirm where you live or where you work, are not a member of the Leos organization and have no affilliiation to any Leos staff or players I'll send you an e-mail naming them!! In the meantime, the group has never had the courage to name themselves nor has Wally or anyone in the Leos organization, who know who the group is, named them. I also tried to lead you to who was involved, if you read the original thread again.

Toppy wrote "It is time for bolder leadership and getting things right."

You obviously need player leadership on a winning team but that leadership needs to come from the dressing room, the practice field, and the playing field. It took until last week and Kelly Bates comments, to get that leadership happening on the practice field this season.

Perhaps one of the problems is that we have a group of players who want to be cooks and sometimes that can spoil the soup. I also worry when we not only have players who are really determining the offensive scheme, by whom they want leading the offence but it also takes a player to speak to the media to get our players to stop yipping and practicing hard. That really should come from the Head Coach and his coordinators. We'll likely beat Hamilton and perhaps we'll rescue this season and even with the Grey Cup but some of the things that have happened from last off-season to now are worrying signs.

[Leothelion]

You should get your facts right. Chap is not paid by the esks. He took a pay cut to come to the lions. He would have had to sit it out to claim his salary but chap did not want to do that. It is hard to look good calling plays previously when your qb is not executing them properly. Obviously Blitz has a thing against chap and continues to hound him. He probably is a casey printers fan to by his comments. Time to get off your old bandwagon and support the leos instead of constantly criticizing them.

leo

[ziggy]

You should get your facts right. Chap is not paid by the esks. He took a pay cut to come to the lions. He would have had to sit it out to claim his salary but chap did not want to do that. It is hard to look good calling plays previously when your qb is not executing them properly. Obviously Blitz has a thing against chap and continues to hound him. He probably is a casey printers fan to by his comments. Time to get off your old bandwagon and support the leos instead of constantly criticizing them.

leo

At least give him credit for well thought out, well meaning criticism! I may not always agree with Blitz or any of the other posters, but if you are here to talk football and you're team is sub 500 then you have to expect theories on why it is happening. While I don't know for sure if there are coaching problems, or if the team is divided into factions, I do know we have essentially the same personnel as last year, but no way near the record. I didn't think we were as good as our record last year, and maybe not as bad as our record this year. But like everyone else who is a fan of the team, I have to ask what has changed? Blitz has his theory as do others, isn't part of what this site is all about?

Now back to the trade for Casey Printers and make noise in a partially torn down stadium threads.

[Toppy Vann]

You should get your facts right. Chap is not paid by the esks. He took a pay cut to come to the lions. He would have had to sit it out to claim his salary but chap did not want to do that. It is hard to look good calling plays previously when your qb is not executing them properly. Obviously Blitz has a thing against chap and continues to hound him. He probably is a casey printers fan to by his comments. Time to get off your old bandwagon and support the leos instead of constantly criticizing them.

leo

At least give him credit for well thought out, well meaning criticism! I may not always agree with Blitz or any of the other posters, but if you are here to talk football and you're team is sub 500 then you have to expect theories on why it is happening. While I don't know for sure if there are coaching problems, or if the team is divided into factions, I do know we have essentially the same personnel as last year, but no way near the record. I didn't think we were as good as our record last year, and maybe not as bad as our record this year. But like everyone else who is a fan of the team, I have to ask what has changed? Blitz has his theory as do others, isn't part of what this site is all about?

Now back to the trade for Casey Printers and make noise in a partially torn down stadium threads.

[Blitz]

You should get your facts right. Chap is not paid by the esks. He took a pay cut to come to the lions. He would have had to sit it out to claim his salary but chap did not want to do that. It is hard to look good calling plays previously when your qb is not executing them properly. Obviously Blitz has a thing against chap and continues to hound him. He probably is a casey printers fan to by his comments. Time to get off your old bandwagon and support the leos instead of constantly criticizing them.

leo

What makes you think that Chaps is not paid some of his salary by the Eskimos.....in fact he is...so you need to get your facts straighter Leos the Lion.

I was a Casey Printers fan when he was here, at least on the playing field. I have a preference for bigger, mobile quarterbacks in the CFL than smaller, pocket passers but at the same time recognize that different styles of quarterbacking can all be effective. I also have made it clear that I don't want Printers back in B.C. from the time he became available last season before signing with Hamilton. I don't consider Printers the same quarterback as during the time he was here, although he is also playing with a less talented team and he would not be a good fit for our present team.

I both support and criticize our Leos on Lionbackers, as many of us do, but when it comes to game time I cheer for every one of them. I haven't missed a game in decades, in one form or another. I have been complimentary of Chap's game planning and play calling the last two games. I have also been complimentary in the past, for a number of games in 2006 but was unhappy in 2005. I have never liked his desire to run most plays out of the ace back formation but he has gone multi-formational lately. I like the way he has moved our recievers around this season. I usually consider his running attack very vanilla and he had a tendancy in the past to overfocus on the intermediate passing game but his offence is targeting all three passing areas much more this season than he did in Edmonton last season. I am not happy with our short yardage scheme and believe we need to make some adjustments, scheme wise.

However, I recognize I have been a tough critic of Chapdelaine and will likely continue that way. However, as long as our offence is adapting away from the Calgary offence of the 90's and becoming more innovative, less predicatble, and more multi-dimensional I'll be happy and I've been very happy the last two games especially. This thread had less to do with Chapdelaine than it did with regard to an unnamed small group of players having a lot of influence regarding our offence, especially who coaches it and how it is coached.

I realize that the word fan comes from the word 'fanatic' and there will always be some who question one's loyalty if that loyalty is not completely blind. However, I don't view Lionbackers as a cheerleading site, where we practice our cheers and come up with new chants. It's a football website for passionate fans and we celebrate our strengths and accomplishments, point out areas where us arm chair quarterbacks think we can improve, and reflect on our progress or lack thereof. Right now, we're 4-5 and in last place in the West and most experts chose us as the favorites to win the Cup this season.

Last week, some of the unhappy comments on Lionbackers regarding of some of our offensive players like Rob Murphy and our less than stellar practice habits made their way back to our Leos players. They didn't like it but it did springboard to players like Kelly Bates agreeing with those comments, along with a few other Leo players and it did create a lot of attention on our offensive tackles. Last week was our best week of practices in a long time and the best performance by far that Rob Murphy had this season. Sometimes cheering works..sometimes some frank comments also have their effect. Players don't like to have their performance questioned, even by fans. Perhaps it helped motivate their performance, perhaps it didn't but it sure didnt' seem to do any harm last game. Let's hope they continue to improve, as they did against Montreal, and we can stil get this season turned around.

[Lion Guy]

However, I'm still disturbed by the fact that a small group of offensive players have so much influence on this Leos squad. This group of players want Chapdelaine as their offensive coordianator. They really now have him as our offensive coordiantor. Our Leos would be doing fans a service is they just announced that Chapdelaine was the offensive coordinator. That would clear up any confusion for fans and players and it would place the responsibility, along with the control, where it should be!!!

This is exactly the reason it is purposefully confused as such, as subterfuge will keep the hounds befuddled and off the scent.

It is a very crass play not paying the supporters of this team any intelligence or respect, and in fact thumbing their noses at those who see right through their tawdry ploy.[/quote]



Wally " Hey Chaps, come on back to the Lions. I need to come up with a very crass play to show the supporters of this team some disrespect; I can't think of anything better than letting you be the OC and not coming out and telling them, especially those people over at Lionbackers!!!! It'll be great!! That should **** them up"!!!

Jeebus, WHO CARES who is running the offence just so long as it executes like last game. It was a great game to watch, the last goal line attempt was exciting even though we didn't get a touchdown.

The REAL question EVERYONE should be asking is why is our D so terrible?

[Soundy]

Who is really running the team?

Apparently, it's us...

[Lionut]

I would just ask that whoever is running the offense comes up with a goal line package. Every team in football has a tight, limited number of plays that they run in goal line situations. They practice them relentlessly in situational drills in scrimmage, with every guy on the team knowing exactly what they are. One inside run, one outside run, one play action pass. It's just not that hard -- find your three best plays for third and short, and rep the #$%$ out of them, because third and short is where games are won and lost.

The Lions looked for all the world on Friday night like a team that had no freaking clue what to run in third and goal from the one, culminating in a cringe-inducing fumbled handoff. That's the kind of stuff you see in pre-season or in a youth football game, not in a mid-season CFL game. It was brutal, and the blame lies squarely with the head coach. This is Wally's team, and at the end of the day it is his responsibility to ensure that the basics are being taught and executed. In a critical situation, we simply didn't have a plan. Inexcusable.