Leos/Red Blacks Post Game Thoughts

[maxlion]

Good breakdown Blitz.

I think that Stewart, Edem, and Philips are all fine when we have our full complement of DBs playing. Edem has been an upgrade on Fraser. But when Yell and Lee went down, they were asked to do more and started to get exposed. We just don't have playmakers back there now. It's not just Gaitor and Fenner or the more experienced guys. We lost our best players and don't have the depth to replace them.

The dline has been okay this year. Brooks may not have the numbers, but when he is in the lineup, we are doing a good job at stopping the run for the most part. We've been winning the running game all year long. And we have quite a few sacks as well. I'll stand by my assertion that the d-line played well against Ottawa.

[TheLionKing]

Leone missed two converts yesterday. Hope it's not going to be a trend.

[Blitz]

Leone missed two converts yesterday. Hope it's not going to be a trend.

The trend has been there for two seasons. Leone is not a field goal kicker. He is inconsistent. He is terrible outside the 40 yd. line and you have to cross your fingers and pray to the football gods when he is inside the 40 because watching him is like the movie Forest Gump "You just don't know what you are going to get".

Leone is a great punter for height and depth but not yet a very good placement punter. But he does give us an advantage with field position if we cover well.

It's not just Gaitor and Fenner or the more experienced guys. We lost our best players and don't have the depth to replace them. maxlion

When Clarke replaced T.J. Lee I thought he was better than Lee. Gaitor played well at boundary halfback when he replaced Clarke. However the loss of Yell is the big one. It eventually meant moving Gaitor to corner, which we needed to do but that meant using inserting Fenner (who may turn out to be fine but its a tough learning curve at boundary half for a rookie).

Wonder if Yell will be back before the end of the season. That could potentially be huge.

When your team has such a good offensive game with so many big passing plays as the outstanding pass and catch plays to Arseneaux, Rainey, Gore, Sinkfield, etc. the focus often is on the quarterback and the recivers.

I'm pleased that you mentioned our offensive line. I noted the great two blocks that Steward made on one running play for Allen. I watched Hunter Steward, who is supposed to be 323 pounds, line up beside Olifioye, who weighs 325 pounds and he made Olifioye look like a running back beside him. Our whole offensive line played well. We ran for 116 yards against the CFL's best run defence and Allen averaged 6.8 yds. per carry.

We were also disciplined on offence. We had an illegal block called on Steward, which was declined, one rough play called on Olifioye, and an intentional grounding call on Jennings - 3 penalties on offence for the entire game, no procedure calls and no holding calls.

Our pass blocking was very good too. But our scheme in this game also helped our offensive line. We ran the football outside and inside. We moved the pocket at times for Jennings too. Our play calling had very good diversity. It makes a big difference.

[cromartie]

Defensively, we live and die by the ability of our line, usually with just four guys, to leverage physical ability and some degree of stunting to hurry/hassle/sack the QB. When they don't, we lose. When they do, and the offensive line, almost always without help, holds up, we win.

Incidentally, I'm not one of those people who always believes in that, necessarily, but with this team and this coaching staff this year, I buy it.

I think that this squad is better than the 2004 squad, whose offensive line was terrible. They're better on ST, better on both lines. Not necessarily the most diverse offensive playbook in the world, but what the two have in common is a 'last possession' mentality. Jennings has much less rope to improvise than *he who this site has finally stopped arguing about* did.

[BC 1988]

Agree that Leone's convert misses in a climate controlled facility from a static distance--can't get much more routine than that-are disturbing. He's also not getting rushed as much by defenders as was the case with the gong show on special teams last year. I can see it being a factor on a wintry Nov 20th in CGY or 27th in TOR.

We lost on TOP 32:35 to 27:22, so were lucky to pull this off.

Funny seeing "Sinkfield JR" wearing No 1 like "Bruce III" did. Right now, it appears he's being used mainly as a decoy. (It's nice to have so many options on OFF).

[maxlion]

Leone missed two converts yesterday. Hope it's not going to be a trend.

Over 2 years, Leone is 74% on field goals and 76% on converts, playing half his games in the climate controlled atmosphere in BC Place.

By comparison, Lirim Hajrullahu, who was run out of Winnipeg last year, is 78% and 84% over the same period, and is a Canadian to boot.

Fellow Canadian, rookie Tyler Crapigna, is 88% and 87% playing in blustery Regina.

Anthony Fera, who the Lions released in favour of Leone, is 77% and 87% in limited action.

No point comparing Leone to league leaders like Parades or Medlock as they are in a different league.

Simply put, Leone is easily the worst place kicker in the CFL and has been for the past 2 years.

[B.C.FAN]

my wife asked why the Lions always go for the 2 points after a TD. After Leone missed the 2 singles in a row I said that's why they go for 2

Until the two misses, I thought Leone was having his best night of the year. He was 2 for 2 on field goals and nailed his first convert. Even in warmups before the game and at halftime, he was hitting everything straight and true. He is often erratic in warmups. He didn't miss the two converts by much. From my viewpoint behind the left upright, I thought both were good but they just missed wide right.

The Lions have now tried 20 2-point converts and 20 1-point converts this year, so it's easy to compare their success.

2-point converts: 10 of 20 (50%) = 20 points in 20 attempts
1 point converts: 17 of 20 (85%) = 17 points in 20 attempts

If it were up to me, I'd try 2-pointers almost every time. There's a lot more to gain.

[David]

* We really dodged a bullet last night. If you take total yards and TOP, the Redblacks should have won that game. The Leone punt single midway through the 4th quarter was the difference maker, as I thought it might be.

* Speaking of Leone, it sure looked on replay like his last point after attempt snuck through. The problem is his kicks are so powerful that they sail higher than the goalposts - so it becomes a judgement call by the officials standing on the goal line, much like a punter's kick that sails out of bounds. I often think they're just guessing.

* I am not averse to the 2 point conversion but I would prefer they just go for 1 point IF THE OTHER TEAM SCORES THE FIRST TD. Our early 2 pt conversion attempts seldom work and I feel it's a big momentum killer to be down 7-6, knowing that we have to make up that point.

* The biggest difference between our D early in the year and now is that Brooks and Purifoy were playing at All-Star levels. Neither has been particularly noticeable the past 6 or 7 weeks. While they're not playing badly, neither is being as disruptive as they were or making the big plays.

* Kudos to Trevor Harris. He took the pressure off their makeshift O-line by releasing the ball lightning quick. His reads and anticipation are extremely fast. Our D kept biting on the fakes which he'd turn into 10-15 yard gains each time.

* Sinkfield could be the secret weapon deep threat that frees up other receivers. We may not have any 10 out of 10 receivers in our lineup, but we're stacked with 8 out of 10s. He's going to create some mismatches on the field as Jones opens up his playbook. Sinkfield and Rainey are going to cause some D coordinators headaches if we can get them on the field at the same time.

* Odd energy in the building last night. It was quiet early but seemed to build toward the end of the first half as the U of W marching band took to the field. This continued in the 2nd half, and on the Redblacks final drive in the dying seconds, the place was nuts. No one was in their seat and even with fewer than 20K there, the noise was deafening.

* Craig Roh was responsible for the lame duck Harris pass that was picked off by Gaitor. I thought he had pretty decent pressure most of the night.

* If you've never been to a game with the Husky Marching Band performing, it's a definite "must see." They perform prior to the game and at halftime and bring their cheer and dance teams. Great choreography, a big time spectacle and lots of classy "Canadiana" touches throughout.


DH

[Blitz]

Over 2 years, Leone is 74% on field goals and 76% on converts, playing half his games in the climate controlled atmosphere in BC Place. By comparison, Lirim Hajrullahu, who was run out of Winnipeg last year, is 78% and 84% over the same period, and is a Canadian to boot.

Fellow Canadian, rookie Tyler Crapigna, is 88% and 87% playing in blustery Regina.Anthony Fera, who the Lions released in favour of Leone, is 77% and 87% in limited action. No point comparing Leone to league leaders like Parades or Medlock as they are in a different league.

Simply put, Leone is easily the worst place kicker in the CFL and has been for the past 2 years. maxlion

You missed Sean White, who has hit 92.8% of his field goal attempts this year (35/38) and he is a National that we once had in our Lions den. If it was anyone but Wally coaching our Leos team, there would be a lot more heat about Leone.

Leone is an International. To play an International at the punter/kicker position, he should be excellent. Wally has always believed you can convert a punter into a field goal kicker. He thought that with Duncan Mohoney too.

So what are we getting out of Leone. Well, lets compare him with Calgary, the team we need to beat. Leone averages 50. yds. per punt. Calgary's Maver averages 47.2 yds. per punt. So we get 2.8 yds. per punt more. In terms of net punting, we get an average of 39 yds. per punt after the return whereas Calgary gets 36.2 yds. net punting. Once again, based on that stat, we are advantaged 2.8 yd. per punt.

Leone averages a little over 5 punts per game. That works out to approximately 15 yards per game of field position to our advantage. Leone is now hitting 69.7% of his field goal attempts prior to this game - lets call it 70%. His longest successful attempt is 47 yards. Every other CFL field goal kicker has hit outside of 50 yards. Leone's average outside of the 40 yard line is poor. Every other CFL field goal kicker is kicking between 80%-92%. Lets take an average of 86%.

So, if we had an average CFL field goal kicker, we would have hit 7 more field goals this season (21 points) based on Leone's attempts. However, if we had a better field goal kicker we would be attempting more of them outside of the 40 yd. line. For example, Paravedes and Medlock have 53 attempts this season. Based on that fact, Leone could have attempted another 17 field goals this season and at an average of 85% that would have led to 14 more successful attempts and an additional 42 points.

So, is 15 total extra yards of punt average per game worth a loss of 21 points this season( based on Leone's attempts and the league percentage average, not the best) and potentially (with more attempts outside of 40 yards) an extra 42 points. That works out to a potential of 62 points lost. That works out to a potential of around 5 points lost per game and that is based on having an average field goal kicker.

We've had some very close games this season. Frankly, to me, Leone's punting does not advantage our Leos when one considers what his poor field goal kicking costs us - plus he is an International.

I think that this squad is better than the 2004 squad, whose offensive line was terrible. Cromartie

No question. Dickenson got hurt in each of his first 3 games that season on sacks and was injured for most of that season. It's amazing that we finished 13-3 that season. No question that this offensive line is better than our 2004 offensive line. I like our offensive line right now, in terms of personnel.

I am not averse to the 2 point conversion but I would prefer they just go for 1 point IF THE OTHER TEAM SCORES THE FIRST TD. Our early 2 pt conversion attempts seldom work and I feel it's a big momentum killer to be down 7-6, knowing that we have to make up that point.

* The biggest difference between our D early in the year and now is that Brooks and Purifoy were playing at All-Star levels. Neither has been particularly noticeable the past 6 or 7 weeks. While they're not playing badly, neither is being as disruptive as they were or making the big plays.

Like you, if the opposition scores first, I would prefer us to go for the one point convert. I'm fine for us going for 2 points, if we score first. My view is similar to yours david....its based on the mental aspect of scoring a touchdown and then, potentially still being behind.

However, I do prefer 2 point attempts most of the time. The odds, over an entire football game, favor the two point convert. Just based on red zone success, our Leos are successful in the red zone more than 50% of the time, so having the football on the 3 yard line, provides a much better than 50% success rate. In fact, our offensive success rate is over 70% this season on second and three, so that is the success rate we should be getting on 2 point convert attempts.

Jennings is now our quarterback on 2 point convert attemtps. That started two games ago. No mention has been made, in terms of the change. It never made sense to me, to put in a cold Lulay, after Jennings has just driven us for our first touchdown of the game or the second touchdown of the game. Happy our Leos have changed their thought process re: using Jennings rather than Lulay.

[Blitz]

What was Jennings quarterback efficiency rating against Ottawa. It was a mind blowing, off the charts 166.8. In order to win the game, Jennings had to be that lights out.

Ryan Phillips spoke frankly about the pass defense, stating if our Leos defense plays the same way in the playoffs, they are not going to get it done. In fact, he said the way that the defense played, any quarterback in the league could have a great game against our Leos.

Poise. It’s Jennings’ defining characteristic, Arceneaux says. “He never panics.” Manny Arseneaux

“Obviously, when you see Trevor Harris out there, playing lights-out, and on fire, our offence has to come out there and respond. That’s what we did.” A model of efficiency, as well as democracy, Jennings got the ball into the hands of no less than eight receivers, including Stephen Adekolu, a third-year special teams player/wide receiver from Bishop’s. He was on the receiving end of his first catch of the season (for 19 yards) while giving Shawn Gore a breather.

“Nobody wants to watch that film (in meetings),” said Ryan Phillips. “Right now, the way we played, that’s not going to get it done in the playoffs. Harris is a great quarterback. But any quarterback in the league could have had a great game, the way we played. We didn’t defend well, we didn’t tackle well, we didn’t play disciplined football. That doesn’t win championships.”

With pass defence just short of comatose, it required Jennings to go long, as it were, to pull a victory out of the conflagration

Bounce-back Jennings Prevails Again for the Leos

Mike Beamish, The Province  10.02.2016

The wonder of consistency.

In another era, Joltin’ Joe DiMaggio had it.

Four times this season, after the Lions struck out the previous game, the young quarterback has bounced back with a heroic effort to stop his team’s losing streak at one.

Saturday night, the Roy Hobbs of the Canadian Football League completed 80 per cent of his passes for 348 yards and three touchdowns as the Lions improved to 9-4 following a 40-33 shoot-em-up win over the Ottawa Redblacks at B.C. Place.

It is becoming a predictable pattern with Jennings. Every Lions loss this season is followed by an impressive bombardment from the right arm of B.C.’s quarterback.

After a 25-14 loss to Toronto Argonauts in July, Jennings threw for 429 yards and three touchdowns the next game against Saskatchewan, a 40-27 Lions victory.

In another rebound game, following two interceptions against the Calgary Stampeders in a 44-41 overtime defeat, Jennings had two touchdown passes and 331 yards next time out — a decisive 38-18 win in Montreal.

Same thing after a 34-9 beatdown by the Stampeders: Jennings threw for 289 yards and a touchdown a week later against Ottawa. The Lions prevailed, 29-23.

Yet again, a flat performance in Edmonton — Lions lost 27-23 after coughing up a 14-0 lead — saw Jennings pitch brilliantly eight days later against the Redblacks. His passer rating Saturday night — 166.8 — was off the charts, and the Lions needed him to be that good.

The opposing quarterback, Trevor Harris, was wheeling and dealing himself, throwing for 485 yards in a back-and-forth contest that approximated the Raptors-Warriors NBA pre-season game next door — only played on turf. Between them, the Lions and Redblacks had 998 yards in net offence.

It could have been more — and, perhaps, produced a different result — had Harris’s end zone pass to Ernest Jackson, in the fourth quarter, not struck the upright in flight. Jackson appeared to have his defender beaten, but the Redblacks had to settle for a field goal after the throw was ruled a dead ball.

“We wanted to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers — and that’s what we emphasized in practice all week,” Jennings said.
Importantly, Jennings got Terrell Sinkfield involved. The heralded free-agent signing wears No. 1, but he had zero impact in his first game, against Edmonton, dropping the ball the only time he was targeted.

In doubling his practice time, from three to six sessions, Sinkfield felt more comfortable in the offence this week.

“Sink brings a crazy amount of athleticism,” Jennings said. “When the ball’s in his hands, he can make plays, make people miss and stretch the defence.”

Sinkfield went airborne early in the fourth quarter to complete a 31-yard touchdown with Jennings to put the Lions ahead 33-30. It was one of his four receptions for 84 yards. He rushed twice for 10 more.

“Totally, an extra week (of practice) made a difference,” Sinkfield said. “I was comfortable with the system, and guys were comfortable with me. I figured out the right spots I needed to be in for the quarterback to make plays to me. I think he (Jennings) gained a little bit more trust in me.”

Manny Arceneaux had a 49-yard reception on Jennings’ first play from scrimmage — it took the Lions only two plays to score their first touchdown, in response to a methodical, 12-play opening scoring drive by the Redblacks — to move past 1,000 yards for the third time in his CFL career.

Poise. It’s Jennings’ defining characteristic, Arceneaux says. “He never panics.”

As much fun as it can be for fans, when offences let their hair down, the bombs-away mentality left D-coordinators blanched and defensive backs panicked and shell shocked.

“Nobody wants to watch that film (in meetings),” said Ryan Phillips. “Right now, the way we played, that’s not going to get it done in the playoffs. Harris is a great quarterback. But any quarterback in the league could have had a great game, the way we played. We didn’t defend well, we didn’t tackle well, we didn’t play disciplined football. That doesn’t win championships.”

With pass defence just short of comatose, it required Jennings to go long, as it were, to pull a victory out of the conflagration.

[Ballistic Bob]

On that pick at the end of the game Gaitor should of taken a knee. 3 seconds and game over. BB

[South Pender]

What was Jennings quarterback efficiency rating against Ottawa. It was a mind blowing, off the charts 166.8. In order to win the game, Jennings had to be that lights out.

I'm curious, Blitz, about the quarterback rating value of 166.8. My impression has been that the QB rating in the NFL and CFL has a maximum possible value of 158.3. Is this 166.8 based on a different formula?

Edit. I did a little digging and think I know where the 166.8 in Mike Beamish' piece came from. Here's the story: the CFL and NFL both use one formula to index passer efficiency, which produces a score between 0 and 158.3. On the other hand, the NCAA uses a different formula that yields a score between -731.6 and 1261.6. A score of 166.8 is impossible in the CFL/NFL metric, but is possible--and would indicate excellent performance--on the NCAA scale. So Beamish just used the wrong formula (or got some data based on the wrong formula) in his reporting of Jennings' performance. I'd hope that future reporting by sports writers will be on the correct scale or confusion will obviously result.

Just for context, a passer rating in the CFL/NFL metric of 100 is considered very good. Jonathan Jennings currently has a rating--over the 13 games in the 2016 season--of 101.3. For comparison, Mike Reilly is sitting at 103.7, and Trevor Harris is leading with a 119.5. In the NFL, Russell Wilson is currently at 99.3, after a somewhat rough start having to play in three of his first four games with two leg injuries, one to each leg.

In the NCAA, the top passers tend to be in the 160+ range. The incredible Louisville pivot, Lamar Jackson, is sitting--after 5 games--at 162.2, and Jake Browning, who's having a tremendous season at Washington is second in the rankings, after 5 games, at 196.3.

[pennw]

To keep things in perspective while discussing Richie Leone , it may be worth comparing his stats to not only other kickers in the the league but also kickers of the past . A good example would be None other than Lui Passaglia who had a career average of approximately 77% on field goals . His first year he was good on 57% . His last year was his best at 90% which brought up his overall average . Most years his average was lower than Leone's with a number of years in the 60% range .

Then there is the legend of the Esks , Dave Cutler with a approximately 54% field goal average . His worst year was 34 % , his best was 68.8% .
This shows how far players have come . While Leone lags behind others today in FGs , he is head shoulders above the rest in punting and some other kickers being compared to , have second guy on the roster to do the punting for them . When comparing to Rene Paredes , one should remember he has a guy named Rob Maver doing the punting , while Leone does both jobs . How good a punter is Paredes ? And how good is Maver at field goals? It would seem that the Stamps coaches don't see either guy as good enough to do both .leone did come here to do the punting but then was asked to place kick too , because it would seem our coaching staff values the extra roster spot he gives us more than the accuracy of the field goals .

[pennw]

On that pick at the end of the game Gaitor should of taken a knee. 3 seconds and game over. BB

He's a rookie , that was his first TD and it was a safe play . Why should he not have gone for it ?

[Blitz]

[quote="South Pender
Just for context, a passer rating in the CFL/NFL metric of 100 is considered very good. Jonathan Jennings currently has a rating--over the 13 games in the 2016 season--of 101.3. For comparison, Mike Reilly is sitting at 103.7, and Trevor Harris is leading with a 119.5. In the NFL, Russell Wilson is currently at 99.3, after a somewhat rough start having to play in three of his first four games with two leg injuries, one to each leg.

In the NCAA, the top passers tend to be in the 160+ range. The incredible Louisville pivot, Lamar Jackson, is sitting--after 5 games--at 162.2, and Jake Browning, who's having a tremendous season at Washington is second in the rankings, after 5 games, at 196.3.[/quote]

Thanks for posting all the info on quarterback efficiency ratings South Pender. I did get the info on Jennings quarterback efficiency rating from the Beamish article and assumed it to be correct.

pennw on Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:03 pm

Ballistic Bob wrote:

On that pick at the end of the game Gaitor should of taken a knee. 3 seconds and game over. BB

He's a rookie , that was his first TD and it was a safe play . Why should he not have gone for it ?

It wasn't the last play of the game when Gaitor intercepted the pass. Harris snapped the football with 13 seconds left. It was only second down and there would have still been time on the clock for Harris to throw again. He got a pick six and I'm happy for him.


by pennw on Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:59 pm
To keep things in perspective while discussing Richie Leone , it may be worth comparing his stats to not only other kickers in the the league but also kickers of the past . A good example would be None other than Lui Passaglia who had a career average of approximately 77% on field goals . His first year he was good on 57% . His last year was his best at 90% which brought up his overall average . Most years his average was lower than Leone's with a number of years in the 60% range .

Then there is the legend of the Esks , Dave Cutler with a approximately 54% field goal average . His worst year was 34 % , his best was 68.8% .
This shows how far players have come . While Leone lags behind others today in FGs , he is head shoulders above the rest in punting and some other kickers being compared to , have second guy on the roster to do the punting for them . When comparing to Rene Paredes , one should remember he has a guy named Rob Maver doing the punting , while Leone does both jobs . How good a punter is Paredes ? And how good is Maver at field goals? It would seem that the Stamps coaches don't see either guy as

good enough to do both .leone did come here to do the punting but then was asked to place kick too , because it would seem our coaching staff values the extra roster spot he gives us more than the accuracy of the field goals .

The stats you provided does provide perspective penw. Field goal kickers are getting better and better and so expectations have risen substantially. However, I do think that Leone should be compared with his peers.

Leone is an International doing both jobs. But I really don't think that the extra 15 yards or so of field position advantage we get each game from Leone Is worth the field goal kicking we are getting from him.

I would rather have an International who is a better field goal kicker and would take the 3 yds. lost on the punting end. My best preference would be a National field goal kicker and punter doing both jobs. But if not the case, I would rather use the roster spot(s) for a National field goal kicker and a National punter.

Right now, during games, we have non-starting Nationals in the following positions: 3 National defensive backs (Fraser, Thompson, Parker), three National linebackers (Clarke, Kankolongo, Aragki), two National defensive linemen (Menard, Forde), two National offensive linemen (Vaillencourt, O'Neil), one backup receiver (Adekolu), one National long snapper (Benson) one National fullback (Lumbala), one National backup tailback (Shaq Murray Lawrence).

You could take Shaq Murray Lawrence and one National defensive back out of the lineup and be more than ok by using a National punter and a National field goal kicker.

You would also get another International on the game day roster and that player could be a very talented player that could be used to strengthen the team in a variety of ways.