About our defence - Wally is sounding like the Lions DC

[dupsdell1]

We managed 2 sacks and an Int. vs the Riders in the 27-24 win.

But we gave Glenn oodles of time.

We played an extremely soft zone.

We got softer as the game got nearer to the end.

We had Biggie and Solo running their legs off in pass coverage. Meanwhile Messam and Allen were seldom stopped by our scheme.

We had Biggie and Solo 25 yards deep in zone pass defence. Bizarre, but it does suit an ultra conservative philosophy.

We seemed to use the 3 man rush less often.

We gave up conversions on 2nd and long over and over.

Without pressure, I doubt anybody in this world can cover Weston Dressler one on one.

Without pressure, Kevin Glenn is going to pass for 300 yards.

To me, our defensive philosophy is unsuited to the modern CFL. And because our philosophy is ultra conservative, when we try to blitz, we do not know how to make it effective. Hello, here comes the blitz.

Even with a 4 man rush, in passing downs, Biggie and Solo are in zone pass defence, or running with a receiver. Pretty tough to come up and challenge a screen pass to Messam from that position.

We gave up 360 yards passing.

We gave up 157 yards on the ground.

We can't stop the run.

And we can't stop the pass.

The guys are highly motivated, and playing their legs off. But our scheme is soft as vanilla ice cream.

Our motto: We play soft zone.

And what of our first round draft pick? Is he able to contribute to our defence? Or is he a project?

Yes that is exactly why this is nor were of a competitive team yet . until that is fixed lions will be lucky to win 9 games.

[pennw]

It's "bend and break slowly" defence , because this type of defence always breaks at the end . It's just gambled upon that the opponent is going to screw up somewhere along the line , like they did on the on side kick last night . If that had been executed by them successfully , it was probably a tie game thanks to our defence breaking at the end .

[korey&dante4ever]

To me, our defensive philosophy is unsuited to the modern CFL. And because our philosophy is ultra conservative, when we try to blitz, we do not know how to make it effective. Hello, here comes the blitz.

One thing I will say, WCJ, is that zone defense is a whole lot more relevant and effective this year in the CFL than in years prior relative to playing an in your face man-style defense, thanks to the new illegal contact rule. Last year, playing zone instead of man was nonsensical.

As well, Mark Washington is one of the guys in this league that you would want leading a defense that can't get to the quarterback. He does know how to play coverage. Lol, it's almost as if he could care less if his players get to the QB. As a former DB, it seems he is obsessed with coverage. Stop the run? Meh. Get to the QB? No need because I've coached up my DB's to perfection, and I have superior coverage schemes.

That being said, when he does bring more than 4, his blitzes are unbelievably ineffective. Shockingingly ineffective. To the point that it really isn't worth sending pressure. Drop 'em back into coverage Mark, lol. You know you want to.

[B.C.FAN]

What I find most frustrating about this defence is that, aside from Bighill's short-yardage stop last week, no one seems to step up and make timely sacks, interceptions or knockdowns in key situations. Even facing second and long, opponents have been able to make plays and move the ball against the Lions. Going into this week, the Lions ranked second last in stopping opponent second down conversions, giving up a first down or touchdown 60.9% of the time. Saskatchewan's defence was marginally worse in that situation at 61.2%.

By my count, the Riders converted on 4 of 11 second down situations in the first half last night when the Lions were playing straight up and 10 of 14 situations in the second half when the Lions were trying to protect the lead. Messam and Dressler are the Riders' most dangerous weapons but they both had over 125 yards from scrimmage, and most of Messam's yards came in the second half when the B.C. linebackers left him alone underneath and dropped into deep zones.

[DanoT]

Using the 2 best LBs in the CFL as extra DBs, while it protects against the big play, it gives up way too much open area in front of them. And then YAC increases because the LBs are playing soft and too far down field.

This soft prevent D sucks. It just about prevented a win for the Lions.

[WestCoastJoe]

To me, our defensive philosophy is unsuited to the modern CFL. And because our philosophy is ultra conservative, when we try to blitz, we do not know how to make it effective. Hello, here comes the blitz.

One thing I will say, WCJ, is that zone defense is a whole lot more relevant and effective this year in the CFL than in years prior relative to playing an in your face man-style defense, thanks to the new illegal contact rule. Last year, playing zone instead of man was nonsensical.

Point well made, kd4e.

At year end, we will see how defences do with the new rules restricting DB contact on receiver. No doubt the new rules factor into the defensive schemes and philosophy of MW.

This fan will be especially interested in how Chris Jones' defence stacks up, with the new rules. And Rich Stubler's also.

As well, Mark Washington is one of the guys in this league that you would want leading a defense that can't get to the quarterback. He does know how to play coverage. Lol, it's almost as if he could care less if his players get to the QB. As a former DB, it seems he is obsessed with coverage. Stop the run? Meh. Get to the QB? No need because I've coached up my DB's to perfection, and I have superior coverage schemes.

And there is merit in that idea as well. MW can certainly dial up pass coverage. But, we see great vulnerability to the screen pass as with Messam. And we see great vulnerability to the run. MW is choosing his poison. And I think we see that without pressure up front, you will inevitably give up a lot of passing yardage, no matter how good your coverage guys are. QBs are too good. Receivers are too good on the huge field.

That being said, when he does bring more than 4, his blitzes are unbelievably ineffective. Shockingingly ineffective. To the point that it really isn't worth sending pressure. Drop 'em back into coverage Mark, lol. You know you want to.

We do not know how to disguise the blitz. That is for sure. And it seems to this fan, that a coach that does not like to blitz, has an extremely difficult time going to it.

Mark W, and Wally, could point to the wins, and say: "We bent, but we did not break. And we won." But we won by a whisker. The Riders were just flying down the field in their jet plane, and driving down the field in their powerful motor car.

And Mark could say: We are adjusting to the new rules. We will tighten it up as time goes on. And we will bring more pressure as we get used to the coverages.

One can only hope so. 517 yards and counting.

As I noted earlier, the players seem to have bought in to the approach of Mark W. He seems to have their loyalty and belief. That is key.

As I asked earlier: Will we ever see a more pressure-oriented defence from Mark W? I kind of doubt it, at this time.

[sj-roc]

What I find most frustrating about this defence is that, aside from Bighill's short-yardage stop last week, no one seems to step up and make timely sacks, interceptions or knockdowns in key situations. Even facing second and long, opponents have been able to make plays and move the ball against the Lions. Going into this week, the Lions ranked second last in stopping opponent second down conversions, giving up a first down or touchdown 60.9% of the time. Saskatchewan's defence was marginally worse in that situation at 61.2%.

By my count, the Riders converted on 4 of 11 second down situations in the first half last night when the Lions were playing straight up and 10 of 14 situations in the second half when the Lions were trying to protect the lead. Messam and Dressler are the Riders' most dangerous weapons but they both had over 125 yards from scrimmage, and most of Messam's yards came in the second half when the B.C. linebackers left him alone underneath and dropped into deep zones.

I have it at 11/15 in the 2nd half and one of the four stops wasn't even really a stop as it set up a 3rd & 1 that they converted; this was on their first series of Q4. So really only three stops out of 15 attempts in Q3&4. And on their final drive when it was 3-down football the Riders were never pushed into a 3rd down gamble.

Ssk pretty much owned the ball in Q4 after we got the Leonard TD catch on the first play. After that our O only ran four plays — a pair of 2 & outs — before it got to victory formation. If my reading of the "live play/game stats" is right the Q4 TOP went:

BC 4:17
Ssk 10:43

[TheLionKing]

A championship defence consist of a defensive line that can dominate their opponent, linebacking corp and a secondary that can cover and cause turnovers. Right now, the Lions have a championship linebacking corp

[Toppy Vann]

I think the DEF was adequate to take away the passing that Glenn wanted.

[DanoT]

Lion's D played a "keep everything in front of you and don't let them go deep" kind of game. Chapdelaine's O typically plays a short pass, crossing route game and thus doesn't go deep very often. So the Lions game plan was to basically defend against something (the deep pass) that they won't see much of.

[Qman]

we rushed 4 all night, not 3.

every time we blitzed Glenn ate us alive. Thats where the big plays happened.

90% of the time we keep dropping 8 (mix of cover 2 and cover 3). Glenn has tons of time and still had to dump it off. thats why messam was the #1 pass catcher.


The only reason why we win is we went 3/4 in the redzone ... they went 2/4.

[green road kill]

517 yards or 5170 who cares, the fact of the matter is the totally inept Lion D and coaches did not allow the Riders a first down untill almost the second quater.

They also allowed the all power full Rider O to score just 4 points ( you could just see the totall collapse coming) . When you add to the fact the Leo's wen't 2 and out 3

times in the 2 quater , the Rider O spent a lot of time on the field and got diddly for it.Also forty of those rushing yards came on a go to sleep play at the end of the halve.

The best Rider drive came in the 3 quater after the Lion's scored . After the Lion's went up 27 to 11 two rider drives were snuffed out by the leo's. One on a second and 12

and one on a sack by bazzie. Yes they chewed up the clock and gained yards , but they didn't score a td untill there was just 33 seconds left in the game. The Lion O

also went 2 and out twice. Why the MIGHTY GREEM MACHINE didn't blow that pathetic unit of our's out of the water for 4 or 5 td's you figgure it out.

MW had a plan and it was keep it simple, keep everybody on the same page, everybody knows what there supposed to do and it worked.We won a home and home and tha

does'nt happen very often. MW also needs Philips back in the worst way.

These two games against the Riders dos'nt mean that everything is hunky dorrie with the D but the are better and better coached than alot of you will give them

credit for.

[cromartie]

Having had the chance to sit down and watch a bit of the game today...

You guys realize that over half of that yardage came in the fourth quarter, right?

And that a lot of that happened because our kicking unit was really good, yes?

I've been one of those people who, on record hasn't been terribly impressed with the interior line play for a couple of seasons now. And I'm not in love with the scheme, necessarily. But to be fair, there was an awful lot of "almost" in that fourth quarter (along with one significant uncalled hold that prevented a sack on Glenn that would have killed a drive). I also think that our line gets considerably better leverage on 3rd and short than it has in the past.

And if we win, I'll take almost. It tells me there's something to build on.

So I'm going to change my tune a bit. Have a little bit of faith in the personnel and if the scheme is the problem, then Tedford will swap out coaches in the offseason.

[TheLionKing]

You guys realize that over half of that yardage came in the fourth quarter, right?

I would much prefer that the offence is operating on all 8 cylinders right from the opening kickoff but am encouraged that they moved the football in crunch time.

[cromartie]

You guys realize that over half of that yardage came in the fourth quarter, right?

I would much prefer that the offence is operating on all 8 cylinders right from the opening kickoff but am encouraged that they moved the football in crunch time.

I think you misunderstood. That was in reference to the Riders offense, not ours.