Ticket Prices / Lions' Marketing

[sj-roc]

I see the Ottawa Rouge et Noir have released their 2014 ticket pricing as seen here:

http://www.ottawaredblacks.com/seasonticketpricing

You have to scroll down past the Club Seating and Field Seating to see the Stadium Seating but you can see that they get the idea that distance back from the field also matters, not just distance from the 55. Why do the Lions not get this?

Every section in the Ott grandstand (bottom side of illustration) has three pricepoints based on how far back you are from the field (except the centre section has two). The other side with two decks also has differential pricing between decks, and there's even differential pricing within the upper deck depending on whether your seat is above or below the concourse access.

There's a $310.50 all-in price point halfway up the grandstand side along the side of the endzone. The equivalent ticket in BCP would be nearly 20% higher at 2013 prices ($368) without even including any taxes or fees: all-in is about $415 or almost 34% extra (technically I should use 2014 BCP pricing for a proper comparison but only have 2013 numbers handy right now). And it's the same price in BCP whether you're in the front row or all the way to the very back.

The highest price point in Ott's stadium seating is comparable to ours, perhaps even a little higher, which is not so bad since for many folks who go after the best seating, they're not that price-sensitive. This highest price point also covers a much smaller portion of the seating (a 20yd swath between about the 45s, cf. the large 70yd swath between the 20s @BCP).

They have some lower price points in the seats farther from centre field (in both senses) to help fill the building, and they only have about half our capacity, perhaps a little more. The back row of the upper deck in BCP goes for the same price as the lower bowl front row seat directly in front of it. The R&N seem to get that there's something a bit off with this notion, but not the Lions.

[TheLionKing]

First time I've seen a stadium with no end zone seats. (unless I'm missing something)

[Hambone]

First time I've seen a stadium with no end zone seats. (unless I'm missing something)

McMahon doesn't have any.

[sj-roc]

First time I've seen a stadium with no end zone seats. (unless I'm missing something)

It does keep the inventory limited so as not to exceed demand too greatly. Looks like there's room to expand with temp endzone seating for Grey Cups.

[notahomer]

Thanks for posting Sj-roc

I wonder what the capacity for the stadium is. I think you are bang on about limiting supply to keep up the demand. I like the idea of the field seating. It will be neat to see the first televised game for this new franchise.

[sj-roc]

Thanks for posting Sj-roc

I wonder what the capacity for the stadium is. I think you are bang on about limiting supply to keep up the demand. I like the idea of the field seating. It will be neat to see the first televised game for this new franchise.

Acc to wikipedia it's 28,826; this barely exceeds half of BCP's full capacity of 54,320, by only less than 1700. So when they get crowds of 26k or so the media will laud it as a success while they look at our similarly-sized crowds and scratch their heads with no trace of irony. In some ways the big crowds from the early years of BCP are the Lions' own worst enemy; they created an unprecedented and anomalously high standard of attendance that has proven all but impossible to re-establish except in those rare instances when the factors that drive the gate — weather, day of week, how late in the season, compelling storylines, opponent, stakes of the game, current level of on-field success, etc, etc — all somehow magically conspire to align in the Lions' favour. Sad to say this, but I fear that handwringing over the Lions' continual failure to re-capture these glory days will probably persist until everyone old enough to remember them first-hand has died.

[DanoT]

First time I've seen a stadium with no end zone seats. (unless I'm missing something)

One thing to consider is that when you are building a stadium it costs the same to construct a seat in the end zone as it does on the 55 yard line, yet you will never get the revenue (return on investment) from the end zone seat as you will from side line seats. This is why the Ticats new stadium will have no end zone seats and will accommodate about 24k fans between the goal lines and be able to expand with temporary seating (at high prices) for Grey Cup games.

For new CFL stadiums with no end zone seats they may not have aesthetic appeal but it makes economic sense. While Winnipeg's new stadium does have end zone seating, they are having financial problems paying for the building even though they are getting very good crowds even with a very poor preforming team.

[sj-roc]

First time I've seen a stadium with no end zone seats. (unless I'm missing something)

One thing to consider is that when you are building a stadium it costs the same to construct a seat in the end zone as it does on the 55 yard line, yet you will never get the revenue (return on investment) from the end zone seat as you will from side line seats. This is why the Ticats new stadium will have no end zone seats and will accommodate about 24k fans between the goal lines and be able to expand with temporary seating (at high prices) for Grey Cup games.

For new CFL stadiums with no end zone seats they may not have aesthetic appeal but it makes economic sense. While Winnipeg's new stadium does have end zone seating, they are having financial problems paying for the building even though they are getting very good crowds even with a very poor preforming team.

Makes sense — the end zone seats at Tempire were just benches with no backrests whereas the sidelines had individual bucket seats, which prob helped to keep the construction cost of each seat more commensurate with its generated revenue. Wasn't this also the case in the old Wpg stadium where the cheaper seats were just aluminum benches? I think McMahon follows the same concept, prob others as well, and not just in the CFL.

[JohnHenry]

The capacity of the new Ottawa stadium is 24,000 while the old Frank Clair stadium held 28,826. The RedBlack ticket prices seem a bit odd, with 4-digit seat prices (i.e. $27.81) plus 2 taxes added on. The seasons ticket packages are for 9 games but the CFL season has 10 home games including 1 exhibition game? Those ticket prices seem pretty high, I hope they can sell them out.

[Cougar Country]

The back row of the upper deck in BCP goes for the same price as the lower bowl front row seat directly in front of it. The R&N seem to get that there's something a bit off with this notion, but not the Lions.

A truly absurd pricing scheme, thanks for the reminder of how bad it is. Honest question, is there another pro football team that doesn't get it this bad?

The aura of being overpriced, which the Lions actually seems to have cultivated intentionally, will be hard to shake as the average dollar continues to lose its purchasing power in one of the most expensive cities on the planet where basics like housing and food are getting less affordable than ever. Wasn't watching football s'posed to be a blue collar pastime?

Acc to wikipedia it's 28,826; this barely exceeds half of BCP's full capacity of 54,320, by only less than 1700. So when they get crowds of 26k or so the media will laud it as a success while they look at our similarly-sized crowds and scratch their heads with no trace of irony. In some ways the big crowds from the early years of BCP are the Lions' own worst enemy; they created an unprecedented and anomalously high standard of attendance that has proven all but impossible to re-establish except in those rare instances when the factors that drive the gate — weather, day of week, how late in the season, compelling storylines, opponent, stakes of the game, current level of on-field success, etc, etc — all somehow magically conspire to align in the Lions' favour. Sad to say this, but I fear that handwringing over the Lions' continual failure to re-capture these glory days will probably persist until everyone old enough to remember them first-hand has died.

I won't blame the media for expecting a city with twice the population and a world class stadium to to draw something approaching twice the crowd of a city half its size rebuilding after decades of utter football futility on and off the field. When are we going to stop making excuses? Let's be honest, the crowds have topped out where they are because they aren't really trying that hard to grow them past something near the league average which they will milk for every last dollar.

First time I've seen a stadium with no end zone seats. (unless I'm missing something)

One thing to consider is that when you are building a stadium it costs the same to construct a seat in the end zone as it does on the 55 yard line, yet you will never get the revenue (return on investment) from the end zone seat as you will from side line seats. This is why the Ticats new stadium will have no end zone seats and will accommodate about 24k fans between the goal lines and be able to expand with temporary seating (at high prices) for Grey Cup games.

For new CFL stadiums with no end zone seats they may not have aesthetic appeal but it makes economic sense. While Winnipeg's new stadium does have end zone seating, they are having financial problems paying for the building even though they are getting very good crowds even with a very poor preforming team.

Makes sense — the end zone seats at Tempire were just benches with no backrests whereas the sidelines had individual bucket seats, which prob helped to keep the construction cost of each seat more commensurate with its generated revenue. Wasn't this also the case in the old Wpg stadium where the cheaper seats were just aluminum benches? I think McMahon follows the same concept, prob others as well, and not just in the CFL.

Seems to me what you may not gain in revenue in the short term, you may gain in happy fans who can actually afford to attend games, then tell their friends, etc etc. I'd happily sit in a crappy endzone bleacher if it was reasonably priced.

[BC 1988]

This is one of the best threads on this board, I return regularly to it for updates.

From my POV, as a value-oriented fan, it doesn't make sense to price sections at the same price all the way to the highest rows in the Upper Level.

I actually enjoy sitting in the end zone right behind the goal posts, to get a clear view of developing plays (even if the video screen is smaller). This year with the creation of the $25 and $30 zones and no Upper Level end zone; I decided not to buy a 10 game flex. My friend and I don't need to drink at the game, and have sat in Section 446 every game. I can't imagine anyone wanting to pay $45 more just to sit 1 aisle over in Section 445 and be allowed to drink beer.
The only time there was any problems was the Oct 4th game, when there were some (obvious Riders) fans who had beer there, but that was only in the first half.

[notahomer]

First time I've seen a stadium with no end zone seats. (unless I'm missing something)

One thing to consider is that when you are building a stadium it costs the same to construct a seat in the end zone as it does on the 55 yard line, yet you will never get the revenue (return on investment) from the end zone seat as you will from side line seats. This is why the Ticats new stadium will have no end zone seats and will accommodate about 24k fans between the goal lines and be able to expand with temporary seating (at high prices) for Grey Cup games.

For new CFL stadiums with no end zone seats they may not have aesthetic appeal but it makes economic sense. While Winnipeg's new stadium does have end zone seating, they are having financial problems paying for the building even though they are getting very good crowds even with a very poor preforming team.

Very true DanoT, just wanted to add my The engineering of the Winnipeg stadium is amazing to me in so many ways. The stadiums roof was constructed to help increase NOISE. But back onto the topic of ticket prices. The Bombers certainly have made EXTRA effort to have those 'cheap' seats. IIRC, there is one section where a season ticket was $199. IOW, lets get a diverse range of incomes getting to the games. And DanoT's point about the endzone seats not getting the revenue is true too. And it is a stadium where the fans are ON TOP of the action.

What I mean is the tunnels leading to the dressing rooms are small, so there are a lot of seats there. And the stadium was built below grade so that the sections of seats (all seats not just endzones) are built on a steeper angle than most stadiums. I think the Bombers have tackled the other problem too which is the temporary expansion. It will be easy to expand that stadium for GREY CUPS. IOW, your stadium probably needs the balance of a smaller number of seats so there isn't a vast ocean of empty seats but still be able to upsize every 9 years here or there for the big one.

As for the Lions. I do NOT understand why upperdeck seats cost the same as the lower ones in the same section.

[Lions4ever]

Speaking of marketing, I think the CFL, in typical CFL fashion, missed an opportunity to look good/do the right thing by failing to strike a deal (if that's what they needed to do, I don't know) to have poppy patches sewn onto the jerseys of the 4 teams in action on this Remembrance Day weekend past. Also should have had the poppy emblazoned on the field surface with "Lest We Forget" stencilled thereon at the 2 games as well.

Many US college teams were sporting special uniforms or team helmet logos in honour of Veteran's Day and if you saw that display at Raymond James Stadium for MFN it was pretty impressive.

Maybe someone knows if this omission is a conscious thing or another sign of CFL cluelessness, but that's how it looks from this guy's couch.

[sj-roc]

Speaking of marketing, I think the CFL, in typical CFL fashion, missed an opportunity to look good/do the right thing by failing to strike a deal (if that's what they needed to do, I don't know) to have poppy patches sewn onto the jerseys of the 4 teams in action on this Remembrance Day weekend past. Also should have had the poppy emblazoned on the field surface with "Lest We Forget" stencilled thereon at the 2 games as well.

Many US college teams were sporting special uniforms or team helmet logos in honour of Veteran's Day and if you saw that display at Raymond James Stadium for MFN it was pretty impressive.

Maybe someone knows if this omission is a conscious thing or another sign of CFL cluelessness, but that's how it looks from this guy's couch.

Some good ideas there, L4E. Are there logistics hampering their implementation? I did notice all four teams had cresting on their jersey fronts from two sponsors (same ones for all teams IIRC, and not necessarily the ones they'd been wearing all reg season) so this would quite likely preclude sewn-on poppy patches.

On the plus side all players had poppy stickers on their helmet backs, and all the officials were wearing what appeared to be regular poppies on their collars (sideline staffs also had them on) so at least it wasn't a total snub. But it would prob be fair comment that they didn't go too far out of their way to be conspicuous about it.

Where I think the league continually drops the ball re: Remembrance Day is, as I've commented so many times before, playing playoff games on Nov 11 when it falls on a Sunday as was the case last year for the SFs, with local kickoffs potentially as early as 1:30pm or 1pm (or even noon if in Wpg as an Eastern host). This doesn't leave fans attending services much time to get to the stadium afterward. Play these games either on Saturday or the holiday Monday (assuming the game is to be played in a province where RD is a stat holiday), or perhaps with a later Sunday kickoff. Funny thing is, in 2008 the league played all four SF & F games on Saturday when Nov 11 didn't even fall on a Sunday, so I'm sure they can do it in years when it does.

[TheLionKing]

Heard a suggestion on the Team that CFL teams make public who is available for the expansion draft and maybe have TSN football panel do a mock draft to see what the RedBlacks might look like. I like the idea, keeps the CFL in the spotlight.