favourite bad lion team?

[Belize City Lion]

Solar, I agree, the 77 Lions would be my favourite lovable loser team. Do you remember the paradoy song CKLG or CFUN did... "Wouldn't it be nice if we had a winner, when it came to football in BC" (sung to The Beach Boys Wouldn't it Be Nice)?

Actually I may be thinking of the 78 team. 77 was the Cardiac Kids. In 1978 we returned to earth and continued our sub-500 ways!

[David]

Surprisingly though, they were a hit at the box office. In 1970, Empire Stadium became Canada's first stadium with artificial turf (3M "Tartan Turf") and a spanking new 15' x 20' instant replay screen. Fans flocked to the park to boo QB Paul Brothers and these lovable losers - attendance averaged 31,000 in 1970 and 34,000 in 1971!

DH 8)

Normally I would never question your knowledge of Lions' history, but
I think you are mistaken about the attendance numbers quoted above.
Even with the "Quarterback Club" bleachers in the north end zone, capacity at Empire Stadium in the 1970's was just under 32,000.
Also, having gone to many games in 1970 and 1971, I remember attendance as being decent, but far from being a sell out for every game.
I think your mistake may have been including only the 16 regular
season games in your computation of average attendance. In fact, up until 1987, the Lions based their total attendance numbers on the regular and pre-season games combined for a total of 18 games. Using this information, I come up with an average home attendance in 1970
of 24,773, and 27,282 for 1971. Factoring in larger crowds for the
regular season games as opposed to the pre-season contests, these
numbers sound about right to me based on my memory of those
years.
I agree with your main point though. Even though the Lions' teams of the late 60's and early 70's were not very good, there was something magical about going to Empire Stadium to see them play. I think a lot
of it had to do with my age at the time, but nevertheless, I have nothing but fond memories of those teams.

No problem TheZeppo - I am far from an authority on everything BC Lions. I got my information from the various club media guides which list the attendance as follows:

1970 - 247,737 (8 home games = 30,967)
1971 - 272,819 (8 home games = 34,102) - this was the largest single season attendance mark at Empire Stadium.

However, if you're saying it's based on 10 home games (including exhibition), not 8, then I stand corrected.

That being said, I can confirm that the capacity at that time was greater than 32,000 (Empire's capacity seemed to shrink as the years went on). John Wirtanen's book list attendance by game but it's a little spotty, yet I do have some attendance figures from 1970 both from his book and media guides:

August 20, 1970 (vs. Calgary) 35,627 (CFL's first Instant Replay Screen unveiled)

August 27, 1970 (vs. Ottawa) 35,563

September 13, 1970 (vs. Winnipeg) 36,250 (if you've ever seen that famous aerial shot of Empire, this was the game)

October 3, 1970 (vs. Edmonton) 35,109

October 21, 1970 (vs. Winnipeg) 22,510


DH 8)

[sj-roc]

how about the 1996 Lions?

Ugh... how could I forget? That was the same year I moved to Vancouver. I was looking forward to attending games after watching the previous three seasons under Dave Ritchie on TV from Victoria. At one game, I actually wore a paper bag over my head. The match against Hamilton that year set the all-time low for the Lions at BC Place (probably for all time, period) with an announced crowd of something like 12 or 13k. Does Wirtanen list that one, David?

On top of the litany of horrors Bosco listed, you can add the terrible schedule we were stuck with. We had a game that went up against the annual summer fireworks. Another that clashed with the third and deciding game of the World Cup of hockey (although they at least opened the gates two hours early to let people in to watch hockey on the concourse TVs). And of course the later games conflicted with the Canucks. Apparently we had no representation at League schedule committee meetings while all of Skalbania's paperwork was getting ironed out (or not ) in the early months of 1996.

[TheZeppo]

That being said, I can confirm that the capacity at that time was greater than 32,000 (Empire's capacity seemed to shrink as the years went on). John Wirtanen's book list attendance by game but it's a little spotty, yet I do have some attendance figures from 1970 both from his book and media guides:

August 20, 1970 (vs. Calgary) 35,627 (CFL's first Instant Replay Screen unveiled)

August 27, 1970 (vs. Ottawa) 35,563

September 13, 1970 (vs. Winnipeg) 36,250 (if you've ever seen that famous aerial shot of Empire, this was the game)

October 3, 1970 (vs. Edmonton) 35,109

October 21, 1970 (vs. Winnipeg) 22,510


DH 8)

According to this site:

http://football.ballparks.com/CFL/BC/oldindex.htm

and also Wikipedia, the seating capacity of Empire Stadium prior to
1974 was 32, 375. After 1974, the north end bleachers were
removed and seating capacity went down to 30, 229. However, the official attendance for the 1971 and 1974 Grey Cup games (both of which I attended) were in excess of 34,000.
I think I may have an explanation for the difference in offical
capacity and the attendance figures you have quoted. The answer
lies in the aerial photo on the website I mention above. This photo
shows many more people sitting in the north end zone than I remember being possible. It is my theory that the Lions sold standing
room tickets back in those days, and may have put in some extra seating for Grey Cup games. I don't actually remember this as being
the case, but it may be a possible explanation for the attendance figures
from those years being so far above the "official" capacity.
In any case, a very interesting debate.

[B.C.FAN]

A few thousand temporary seats were also installed for Grey Cups on the running track below the grandstands at Empire Stadium.

[TheZeppo]

A few thousand temporary seats were also installed for Grey Cups on the running track below the grandstands at Empire Stadium.

I know this was done for the '63 Grey Cup, but I don't remember
people sitting down there during the '71 and '74 games. However,
it was a long time ago and I may have just forgotten.

[David]

Speaking of the 1971 Grey Cup, I have a VHS tape of that game (Calgary vs. Toronto) if anyone is interested in a copy for nostalgia sake. It's the actual CBC/CTV broadcast (they used to take it in turns each half).

It's really quite hilarious to view this telecast today with the old TV commercials for CP Rail and Labatt's Blue, and the pre-game on-field entertainment, player introductions etc. You soon begin to realize that TV graphics and instant replay were in their infancy back then. :lol:

DH 8)

[Belize City Lion]

August 20, 1970 (vs. Calgary) 35,627 (CFL's first Instant Replay Screen unveiled)DH 8)

I'm curious to know more about this replay screen... how many seasons did they use it? What happened to it? Who provided the replays?

Back in 1970 replays were done either in real time from video tape, or in slo-motion from an optical disc (it was a large silver disc about the size of a laser disk that could only record a few minutes of action before re-reording over itself). Either system was extremely cumbersome and very expensive. So I assume the Lions would have only have shown the CBC or CTV feed if the game was being broadcast.

[David]

I can't explain the technical aspects of it, however Wirtanen provides some details of it in his book: Lions Football: The First 50 Years.

Here is an exerpt from the 1970 season:

"The Lions are playing 50-50 ball and that is good enough to get 35,627 - the largest crowd in five years - out to the game; that, and the opportunity to see the 15'x20' Instant Replay Screen that is the centre of some controversy. Ted Gerela is good on four field goals - the longest being 52 yards - the defence intercepts Jerry Keeling four times including one by E. Greenard Poles and another by George Juggum - as the Lions more than double the Stampeders, 27-13. However, it is the instant replay screen and new scoreboard that have brought many into the stadium. The right to use the screen - the first in Canada - is before the CFL Board Of Governors, some of whom feel the technological aspects of the screen are an invasion of the rights of competition and may taint the public's conception of the competence of game officials. Others argue that TV viewers already have instant replay at home and that is not considered controversial....or negotiable."

DH 8)

[tedbear]

I can remember the replay screen on the Hastings street side of the stadium. But I can never ever recall it working?

[Belize City Lion]

I can remember the replay screen on the Hastings street side of the stadium. But I can never ever recall it working?

Wasn't Hastings street the south endzone with permanent seating? Why was the screen there and not in the north endzone that only had a few bleachers?

[TheZeppo]

I can remember the replay screen on the Hastings street side of the stadium. But I can never ever recall it working?

Wasn't Hastings street the south endzone with permanent seating? Why was the screen there and not in the north endzone that only had a few bleachers?

The Empire Stadium scoreboard was above the south end stands IIRC.
As I said in a previous post, I don't remember there ever being a
replay screen attached to it. Maybe the explanation is contained in
the quote from "tedbear"; the screen seldom worked. I must admit
that the evidence that David provided in his previous post is far too
detailed to be a figment of the quoted author's imagination. So I
am prepared to accept that a replay screen was used during the 1970 season. But the question remains: what happened to it?

[Belize City Lion]

The Empire Stadium scoreboard was above the south end stands IIRC.
As I said in a previous post, I don't remember there ever being a
replay screen attached to it. Maybe the explanation is contained in
the quote from "tedbear"; the screen seldom worked. I must admit
that the evidence that David provided in his previous post is far too
detailed to be a figment of the quoted author's imagination. So I
am prepared to accept that a replay screen was used during the 1970 season. But the question remains: what happened to it?

I also remember the scoreboard being at the south end... and I think there may have been another scoreboard added to the north end (on top of the fence) at some point.

[Belize City Lion]

I just watched "CFL Traditions: BC Lions Edition" DVD. You can see that there was a north end scoreboard as early as 1963 (perhaps earlier). The program mentions artificial turf being installed in 1970 but no mention of a replay screen.

[TheZeppo]

I also remember the scoreboard being at the south end... and I think there may have been another scoreboard added to the north end (on top of the fence) at some point.

You know, I was thinking the same thing. Except, in my dim memory,
the scoreboard at the north end was the original one, and the one at the south end was built later. I also vaguely remember that the board at the
north end was a sort of pathetic relic that never worked, at least not that I can recall.
To add credence to my theoryI have an aerial photo of Empire Stadium,date unknown, but clearly
taken before 1968, as there is no Pacific Coliseum yet. The photo
shows a modest section of bleachers in the back of the north end zone,
with what appears to be a scoreboard above them. In the south end
zone, there is nothing resembling the large scoreboard that I remember.