If No Season will the CFL fold

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Murdoch
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Good point but I believe it has to come from the local municipal / civic level who are the beneficiaries of the economic impact. Chamber of Commerce is a purrfect vehicle if they could ever get away from the bureaucratic nightmare most have become. Let them be the ones to haggle with Ottawa. Feds get to distance themselves from the conversation that way.

I pity the fans the day CUPE rolls into town and the government salary structure hits the CFL. On the other hand players could apply as recent graduates looking for experience with the WE foundation.

I'm with Brandon Banks in saying it's not gonna happen this year. Next question is will it happen next year.

Enjoy your Sunday


cms22
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i do think the league needs a maximum salary for players... they may have one and i don't know it. if they do, it's too high.

much easier to go to government with a bunch of americans making $150k than a few making $700k

i don't think fed government should have that much trouble with a 50/50 player/team revenue split and then the government subsidizes.......i really do think it's one of the few things that brings all parts of canada together. CBC TV doesn't. CBC radio does i think, but younger people don't listen.

first and foremost, i think CFL needs strong franchises in montreal and toronto (and maybe vancouver)....... wonder if MLSE would buy money-losing lions to establish a beachhead in western canada. not sure what the exact benefit would be but you see this type of rationale many times in biz articles


cms22
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here's a crazy idea......... why not market cfl teams as immigrant investments?............. living here in vancouver, i see some businesses run by persians and chinese and wonder if there's any expectation of making money. like a fairly large home furnishing store that couldn't make change for a $10 bill. i'm thinking they may tie into immigrant investment (and change owners every few years)


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Hambone
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Murdoch wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:51 am

Not sure you will get good answers as the CFL qualifies as a private corporation I believe. No requirement to report.

I'd like to know if all the commissioners, presidents, senior vice presidents, junior vice presidents, directors, and the rest of the sixty or so listed on the CFL staff directory are still being paid.

Gig is up. No one left but the fans interested in the love of the game. Everyone else is all about money. It's a tougher sell in hard times.
According to Ambrosie all members of the CFL's executive team including himself took pay cuts of at least 20% back in April. Most football ops staff across the league too similar cuts around the same time.

Ambrosie wrote in an open letter:

Our focus also goes far beyond whether we play in the fall. We are committed to taking actions that not only allow us to weather the COVID-19 storm, but also ensure we have a foundation to renew, reinforce and one day continue the growth of the CFL. It was reported this week that non-player football operations across the league have been asked to cut their budgets by 20 per cent. We know this is tough on our very dedicated coaches, general managers and scouts.

But we all must show leadership at this time. That’s why I and every member of our league’s executive team voluntarily took pay cuts of at least 20 per cent back in April. There have also been pay cuts, reductions in hours and even layoffs across the nine CFL clubs as well as the league office since the pandemic struck. We continue to look for more efficiencies and opportunities to overcome the challenges of COVID-19. We are leaving no stone unturned when it comes to controlling costs and creatively looking for revenue.


https://3downnation.com/2020/06/18/cfls ... -ambrosie/

Lol. That had me thinking Mike Reilly is making about the same as the Commissioner under normal circumstances. Reminds me of the old Babe Ruth story when it was noted that Babe was making more than the President of the US. When asked to explain that Babe said "well I had a better year".


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Murdoch
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small bit from a 3DN story from earlier this year.

"If the league is forced to cancel, postpone or suspend the season, the wording will be key for legal purposes. In the event that the season is postponed, the league could argue that a delay does not constitute a suspension. But the CFL Players’ Union and agents could make a case the other way and argue their clients should be free agents."

Possibly an extreme position but the legalese is there apparently. Should be news this week.


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Hambone
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Murdoch wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:48 am
small bit from a 3DN story from earlier this year.

"If the league is forced to cancel, postpone or suspend the season, the wording will be key for legal purposes. In the event that the season is postponed, the league could argue that a delay does not constitute a suspension. But the CFL Players’ Union and agents could make a case the other way and argue their clients should be free agents."

Possibly an extreme position but the legalese is there apparently. Should be news this week.
The Standard Players Contract contains such a clause. It effectively says if the season is suspended the player becomes a free agent. Obviously nobody foresaw these circumstances but nonetheless the clause exists. Likely they were thinking more in terms of financial circumstances cause the league to stop.


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Sir Purrcival
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Without further conditions or clauses defining what constitutes a cessation, then the legal ruling will be in the favour of the party that didn't draft the contract. Obviously, the players would want this clause so that the league couldn't tie up players from playing elsewhere in the event the league were to stop operating for some reason. I'm sure the main reasoning was something like a bankruptcy. However, I'm not especially worried about it from a standpoint of players bolting should the league cease. Where are they going to bolt to? Most of them are playing in the CFL cause the NFL wasn't an option. I don't see how that has changed. It isn't like there are a lot of other options football wise for most of them and even if there were, they would be wrestling with the same virus problems. When they come back, it could be a bit more problematic seeing that some teams might find a way to stack their rosters in a way that formerly might not have been possible with free agents. Some teams have an advantage with their location. How many players might opt for a Montreal or a Toronto setting over a Hamilton or Winnipeg for example.


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If the CFLPA makes the claim that the players are free agents, then what would prevent the league from expanding the negotiation list to include all players who were formerly under contract, now on team's list and free to negotiate with that team only?


Murdoch
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Unable to attach the link to the latest letter from the CFLPA. Available on their website under news. More news there than the league site.

States the CFL has denied the players rights to terminate the contracts, so it has apparently been discussed.

I agree that the players have little option. As a Bomber fan I would be happy to see Adam Bighill's $300,000 deal disappear.

Still seems a lack of respect for the players and none what so ever for the fans. Not to say an agreement can't come quickly as it has in the past.


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Hambone
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DanoT wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:40 pm
If the CFLPA makes the claim that the players are free agents, then what would prevent the league from expanding the negotiation list to include all players who were formerly under contract, now on team's list and free to negotiate with that team only?
The CBA would prevent it. They'd have to negotiate with the CFLPA over their dead bodies the removal of the clause below. It would effectively kill the concept of free agency.

Section 14.04 Negotiation List
Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules and Regulations throughout the term of this Agreement, no Member Club in the C.F.L. shall place or have on its Negotiation List a Player who has been or is a veteran in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.


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DanoT
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Hambone wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:08 am
DanoT wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:40 pm
If the CFLPA makes the claim that the players are free agents, then what would prevent the league from expanding the negotiation list to include all players who were formerly under contract, now on team's list and free to negotiate with that team only?
The CBA would prevent it. They'd have to negotiate with the CFLPA over their dead bodies the removal of the clause below. It would effectively kill the concept of free agency.

Section 14.04 Negotiation List
Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules and Regulations throughout the term of this Agreement, no Member Club in the C.F.L. shall place or have on its Negotiation List a Player who has been or is a veteran in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.
Ok, the CFL cannot expand the Neg List as I previously suggested, but look at what the XFL(??) did with regional protection from a draft. aka a player becomes the property of the local team based on where the player played college football. What would stop the CFL from declaring the previous roster as "protected, not part of a draft".

A not unthinkable scenario is that the CFL folds and is reborn as a league with mandated salaries per position or some variance of that.

IMO, the CFLPA does not have a lot of leverage because for most, playing pro football in Canada is the only option that they have.


cms22
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good discussion, thank you everyone :)

here's a question with probably an obvious answer:

if i'm a baseball player. signed a huge contract years ago. don't play up to that level whatsoever. thinking albert pujols...... i have one year left on contract at $28MM........ if baseball cancels season, is that it for the huge money (i.e. it's gone) or can a lawyer make a good argument to extend it a year? of course i would think it would have to be consistent amongst players.

service years would be another issue.

i think 100% free agency might be a necessity for the CFL......... who's to say they don't have to re-do the whole structure of the league.


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SammyGreene
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JohnnyMusso wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:17 am
“They need fans in the stands, even 5,000 at $50 gives them some revenue. You get some revenue from television and all of a sudden you’re not losing $10 to $20 million, but maybe you only lose, two, three, four million. David is insistent, if there are no fans allowed, the CFL is not going to be a go,” Dhaliwal said on TSN radio 1040.

“David is 100 percent, he insists, with fans we can’t do it. He doesn’t like the hub city idea. Who is going to pay for 45 player salaries? Whose pocket does that come out of if there’s no revenue from the gate? That comes out of his pocket,” Dhaliwal said.

“He’s already lost millions since the pandemic started. He’s paying people basically, essentially that nobody is doing anything, but he’s still paying,” Dhaliwal said. “They gotta get going by the end of this month. He continues to insist, if there is no CFL this season, the league will probably fold.”
I didn't have much hope there would be fans in the stands but Braley's words look to be 100 percent accurate in that was the only way a 2020 season would proceed. He certainly wasn't expecting any kind of help from the government.

Now I only hope "the league will probably fold" comment isn't accurate. I have seen reports each team will lose a minimum $5 million without a season but I don't think that takes in account no revenue coming in all the way up to the start of a 2021 season. TSN's Dave Naylor said last week the league would be in jeopardy if 2 owners decided to walk away given even a 2021 season is by no means certain without a vaccine. Do the new Montreal owners have deep enough pockets for this? What about Ottawa? Then there is there is the BC owner who suggested it in the first place.

We have seen how this virus has exposed companies with weak business models. None more than my favourite league.


Murdoch
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cms22 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:49 pm
i think 100% free agency might be a necessity for the CFL......... who's to say they don't have to re-do the whole structure of the league.
As extreme as it is, I agree that they need to look at everything. The slave days are over. They need a game that fans can afford to attend and one that players can afford to play. Highly paid presidents and commissioners are less important to me.

A player signing a two year deal should not get cut prior to being paid the second year bonus. People complained they couldn't identify with the team because of player movement. Players look bad but can you blame them. Here today, gone tomorrow. Forget about buying furniture.

Crazy to think something good could come from a pandemic but maybe this is what it takes to rebalance and move forward. I am on the side of the PA.


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BC 1988
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https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040 ... -1.1504666
Succinct 3 minutes of Farhan on TSN 1040 this morning. At 7:46 they shift from Canucks to CFL. Farhan says he has had enough of deadline talk and rumours--"Are you playing or are you not?"


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