How the mighty have fallen - Beamish pulls no punches!

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

User avatar
David
Team Captain
Posts: 9364
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

This is an excellent read in today's Vancouver Sun (11/19/14) but it comes with a warning: you may wish to stock up on Prozac if you're a hard-core Lions' fan. This mess runs deep, folks. Forget a 9-9 record and playoff blowout. Beamish addresses a leadership void (not made any easier by the departure of Marsh), lack of locker room discipline, organizational blunders, the list is lengthy. Suffice it to say, Mike Beamish has just been crossed off Wally Buono's Christmas card list, but he writes the truth and he's done his research. Enjoy....

METRO VANCOUVER - Under late president Bobby Ackles, the B.C. Lions were not only a resurrected franchise, they became a model one.

How far they’ve fallen since then is evidenced not only by the performance on the football field — diminishing expectations since winning a Grey Cup in 2011 — but in other areas such as marketing, game presentation, half-time entertainment, connecting with the 18-to-35 demographic and the untold damage of allowing Geroy Simon to slip away to the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

The absence of Simon, the Lions’ closest thing to a franchise icon in the 21st century, is not the reason B.C. finished 9-9 and got thumped royally by the Montreal Alouettes in the first round of the playoffs.

But seeing him stride through Vancouver airport — in the green garb of the rival team from the Prairies, which is now his employer — is evidence of a Lions organization that has lost its way. His estrangement is hurtful to fans in a number of ways which no hastily-arranged

Geroy Simon Night can repair.

A forward-thinking franchise does not divest itself of a sports idol who helped build the team and its brand but chooses to employ it, as the Vancouver Canucks have done with president Trevor Linden, in strengthening the connection between fan and team.

As for the product on the field — the tip of the iceberg — there was no consistency in 2014, except for the ever-expanding injury list.

In the locker room, a mixture of young and hungry — and older and more established — is the ideal mix. But a number of veteran Lions grumbled this season that the team had gone too far in the direction of younger and cheaper. They described a loose clubhouse, with rules that didn’t adhere to previous standards, an atmosphere some players grew to exploit.

“There are certain things players can do that coaches and GM’s can’t,” veteran defensive back Ryan Phillips said Tuesday. “That’s establishing the culture in the locker room. I’m all for having fun. But, at the end of the day, there has to be a criteria established for being a professional. For most of my 10 years here, the nucleus has been the same. I’m used to seeing Geroy and Paris Jackson and Korey Banks here. Now there are guys playing significant roles on this team, and they’re young. They’re inexperienced. Immaturity is to be expected. But there were some things that could have been avoided. There were some things that were inexcusable. Focus on football should always be your No. 1 priority.”

It seems insignificant that the success of a team could hinge on matters as trivial as parking spaces. But in the turbulent season that was, it was a constant: The inability to adhere to small details, which led to bigger problems.

Kicker Paul McCallum said players ignored directives about where they should park vehicles at the team’s Surrey training facility. He maintains that one example was a harbinger of shoddy practice habits and undisciplined play which bedevilled the Lions all season.

“Football is a very structured game,” McCallum said. “If you can’t follow simple instructions, how are you going to perform on the field? If you’re ignoring where you’ve been told to park, if you’re talking in a meeting when you should be listening, there’s something wrong. From the time you get here, until the time you leave, it’s about doing your job and paying attention. When you get out on the field, and you don’t know what you’re supposed to be doing because you were goofing around … it compounds.”

Coaches can paper a locker room with motivational aphorisms, and mouth all manner of variations about competition, success and manhood. But if there are not players acting as the team’s backbone and nerve centre, leading by example, that message gets lost.

That was one thing Simon, who was obsessed by winning, demanded of himself and others. Sloppy practice habits led to a similar performance in games.

When it was suggested the Lions’ workouts didn’t seem as crisp, as business-like as in former years, Phillips agreed:

“There is only a small minority of guys who have that turn-it-on, turn-it-off switch,” Phillips said. “The majority of guys aren’t built like that. There were things (behaviours) in practice that got us out of our disciplines. It brought about scenarios where we had more losses than we probably should have. For the guys who do come back, we’ve got to come back re-focused, with a sense of urgency, one that’s about putting personal agendas aside and focusing on our jobs. We’ve got a lot of growing up to do as a team.”

Less obvious, but just as important, is where the Lions organization goes from here.

It has been evident the fall has not come strictly within the white lines.

mbeamish@vancouversun.com



DH :cool:
Roar, You Lions, Roar
User avatar
cromartie
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 2:31 pm
Location: Cleveland, usually

Would that be the Trevor Linden that played for Vancouver, Montreal, the New York Islanders and Washington?

You can tag a lot of problems on this franchise, including the rest of this article, but the handling of Geroy, was and is on Geroy.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12580
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

Disorganized. Confused. Unprepared. We've seen it all year in games. Now players say it comes from bad habits in practices, meeting rooms and the locker room. That falls mainly on the coaches.

I'm not so sure that management is to blame for the leadership void in the locker room. Change is constant, and needs to be gradual. The Lions have been trying to make only one or two changes to their core group each year. Geroy had lost a step, was bothered by hamstring injuries. Paris Jackson hadn't played a significant role on the field in years. Korey Banks was at the end of his career and refused to admit it. Angus Reid was the longtime leader of the offensive line but a back injury forced him to retire. Marsh is 35 and whether he admits it or not, time has caught up to him. These moves are not drastic overhauls. They're necessary year-to-year changes to regenerate the team and keep it competitive.

Who are the cururrent leaders in the locker room? Ryan Phillips is still clearly a leader on and off the field, and he had a good season despite not being named to the West Division all-star team. (No Lion DBs were this year, which is a rarity.) Travis Lulay and Andrew Harris have been leaders but they were both injured this year, and that took a big toll on and off the field. Adam Bighill and Solomon Elimimian are hard-working professionals who quietly lead by example. Locker room chemistry and leadership has to develop within. The veterans have an obligation to set the standard and keep everyone on track.

The biggest change that this team made in the past year was the removal of Jacques Chapdelaine and Rich Stubler as offensive and defensive coordinators. No matter what you think of their schemes and play-calling, they were no-nonsense coaches who demanded a high standard of play and did not tolerate laziness or sloppiness in practices or in games. I recall Stubler yelling at players to hustle off the field between plays in training camp in when he was first hired as part-time D-line coach in 2010. I didn't recognize him at first and wondered about this new coach who seemed to treat his players like high schoolers. But players did what he told him. They knew their assignments in his complex schemes and they executed them consistently because they were well taught, and he wouldn't tolerate anything less.
User avatar
Rammer
Team Captain
Posts: 22320
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 6:04 pm
Location: Coquitlam, B.C.

Funny how I hear how Jones runs practice at a faster pace than game pace. Lions are the flip side of that by the sounds of it, so which team seemed to use their practice best out on the field of play? Of course it is the Eskimo's, and it isn't even close. Which HC would you fear more as a player...of course it is Jones. Benevides would rather be belly bumping the players. One is leading a team and the other is failing with the team.

You can't change all the young guys on the roster (Lions have some real talent in the young guys anyways), but you can change the leader to enforce some discipline that will show up in games.
Entertainment value = an all time low
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Mike Beamish has never been afraid to write about what he sees and knows. Wally has had his P.R. person snap at Beamish on more than one occasion. Dog house? Oh yeah.

Ownership. How can one fault David Braley? Hard to do. But he has been an absentee owner for quite a while now. Since the passing of Bobby Ackles, the leadership of this organization has been shaky. IMO ...

Management. Skulsky and Buono. How is the business doing as an entertainment? How is the product on the field? is there dysfunction within the organization? Does the GM bind the hands of the Head Coach?

Coaching. Blame it on Benny. But it seems to me he is a figurehead Head Coach, or worse, a puppet.

Players. It seems to me our personnel guys have done a good job.

Just IMO. Others will see it differently.
...........

Teflon Wally is still safe. Benny is taking all the heat. Or the great majority of it.

I think it would be justice if Wally puts himself back as Head Coach. Let the heat fall where it belongs.

Do I want to see Wally back as Head Coach? Que sera, sera ... It would be interesting. Xs and Os? Blah ... Execute. Be men. LOL

Personally, I think the slide would continue. Too many sharp opponents out there.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

cromartie wrote:Would that be the Trevor Linden that played for Vancouver, Montreal, the New York Islanders and Washington?

You can tag a lot of problems on this franchise, including the rest of this article, but the handling of Geroy, was and is on Geroy.
Yeah, he makes some good points but that invocation of Linden seems a tad revisionist. There's also the matter that until his appointment this year as president, Linden had pretty much zero association with the Canucks for the previous six years following his 2008 retirement (although in fairness that was probably down to TL himself wanting to pursue other business interests rather than the Canucks refusing to keep him in the fold).
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
South Pender
Legend
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:24 am
Location: Vancouver weekdays; Gulf Islands on weekends

The absence of leadership and responsibility for the team's poor performance does not lie entirely with the coaches--HC and coordinators. I think Phillips makes that clear when he says:

There are certain things players can do that coaches and GM’s can’t, that’s establishing the culture in the locker room. I’m all for having fun. But, at the end of the day, there has to be a criteria established for being a professional. For most of my 10 years here, the nucleus has been the same. I’m used to seeing Geroy and Paris Jackson and Korey Banks here. Now there are guys playing significant roles on this team, and they’re young. They’re inexperienced. Immaturity is to be expected. But there were some things that could have been avoided. There were some things that were inexcusable. Focus on football should always be your No. 1 priority.”

The players have to take some ownership of the team's failures. Clearly, the "culture in the locker room" was one of low standards and immaturity. While a strong HC (and coordinators) can mitigate players' failings in this regard to some extent, the players are not children and should be expected to establish an adult, mature, goal-oriented, professional value system for the team. To some extent, this is on the veteran players for not doing more to instill professional values in the locker room, and to some extent a function of the immaturity of some of the players. Although the coaches can help to get a team fired up and playing at their best in games, we should be able to expect some of this drive to come from the players themselves. If it was a widely-held belief among the players that things were disorganized and sloppy, they should have been dismayed by this and done what they could do to rectify the situation. It looks as if this didn't happen.

I think one thing is clear: if Wally had been HC, things would never have got this sloppy, and players would have been held much more accountable than they were. So if Wally takes over again as HC (and I'm not sure just how likely this is), I think we can expect this aspect of the team's malaise to be fixed. In addition, though, he needs the detail guys--on both O and D--if the Lions are to regain their form and be competitive.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8175
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

sj-roc wrote:
cromartie wrote:Would that be the Trevor Linden that played for Vancouver, Montreal, the New York Islanders and Washington?

You can tag a lot of problems on this franchise, including the rest of this article, but the handling of Geroy, was and is on Geroy.
Yeah, he makes some good points but that invocation of Linden seems a tad revisionist. There's also the matter that until his appointment this year as president, Linden had pretty much zero association with the Canucks for the previous six years following his 2008 retirement (although in fairness that was probably down to TL himself wanting to pursue other business interests rather than the Canucks refusing to keep him in the fold).
I still support the Lions side of the ledger for the Simon situation both before and after he went to Saskatchewan. He wanted to stay as a Lion player. The Lions were willing to accomodate on their terms which were reasonable. He didn't want to accept those terms. They were more than accomodating in helping him land in a situation that he was happy with. A year later the Riders offered him back as a player. Having been there bought the t-shirt the Lions understandably balked. Did Geroy ask the Riders for permission to talk to BC about a non-playing role? I doubt it. When he finally decided to retire it was on the eve of camp with BC not having any pending vacancies and the Riders already having offered him some sort of off-field role. I don't know where they could've done anything different other than to promise him he'd be a starting "go-to" receiver for 2012 and continue paying him elite receiver money. Regardless it's a new off-season and it wouldn't surprise me to see him re-patriated with the Lions before 2015 training camp opening.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Good article by Mike Beamish. Beamish, McCallum and Phillips have just confirmed what a lot of Lionbackers have been saying that Benevides have lost control of the team.
User avatar
Rammer
Team Captain
Posts: 22320
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 6:04 pm
Location: Coquitlam, B.C.

Hambone wrote:
sj-roc wrote:
cromartie wrote:Would that be the Trevor Linden that played for Vancouver, Montreal, the New York Islanders and Washington?

You can tag a lot of problems on this franchise, including the rest of this article, but the handling of Geroy, was and is on Geroy.
Yeah, he makes some good points but that invocation of Linden seems a tad revisionist. There's also the matter that until his appointment this year as president, Linden had pretty much zero association with the Canucks for the previous six years following his 2008 retirement (although in fairness that was probably down to TL himself wanting to pursue other business interests rather than the Canucks refusing to keep him in the fold).
I still support the Lions side of the ledger for the Simon situation both before and after he went to Saskatchewan. He wanted to stay as a Lion player. The Lions were willing to accomodate on their terms which were reasonable. He didn't want to accept those terms. They were more than accomodating in helping him land in a situation that he was happy with. A year later the Riders offered him back as a player. Having been there bought the t-shirt the Lions understandably balked. Did Geroy ask the Riders for permission to talk to BC about a non-playing role? I doubt it. When he finally decided to retire it was on the eve of camp with BC not having any pending vacancies and the Riders already having offered him some sort of off-field role. I don't know where they could've done anything different other than to promise him he'd be a starting "go-to" receiver for 2012 and continue paying him elite receiver money. Regardless it's a new off-season and it wouldn't surprise me to see him re-patriated with the Lions before 2015 training camp opening.
That is the way I see the Geroy scenario playing out upon his departure from the Lions. Add in his slighting of the Lions and that how his role was played out in Saskatchewan was what Wally had planned for him (probably would have been even better regular season with the Lions). He lost a lot of community support with the move, which probably cost him long term (offset somewhat by his PR role with the Riders I guess, although he would have had a similar role with the Lions, just not at the salary the Riders were giving him.). His actions lost my support for him, at least for the near future, he isn't going to get the heart felt welcome anytime from me.
Entertainment value = an all time low
User avatar
MexicoLionFan
Legend
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:10 pm

If this isn't enough to convince everyone that this is on Benny, thus Wally, then nothing will...I have said this time and again, the fix for the Lions isn't huge, but it is specific...COACHING. The talent is here...the combination between youth and veterans is there...we have size and speed on both sides of the ball...we NEED cutting edge coaching...plain and simple. Now, the million dollar question, who would come here with all that's known about Wally and what's come out over the last couple of days???

If we don't get the right staff put together, then we have only witnessed the tip of the iceberg. This can get really ugly in a hurry ESPECIALLY WITHOUT A QB!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

I think the biggest problem is Buono himself and his micro management style. Unfortunately for Lion fans, Braley has said Buono is not going anywhere. Buono needs to divorce himself as difficult as it may be from the coaching (stay away from the tower, practices and input into which players should in the lineup)
User avatar
DanoT
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter

I do not want to see Wally return as the HC because to me it will reek of saving money to offset the 2 years of salary going to Benny.

Wally made a mistake making Benny a HC and realizing this he may have gotten more involved in helping out his head coach than he should have. Hopefully he fires Benny and then hires a new HC that he does not interfere with.
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

South Pender wrote:The absence of leadership and responsibility for the team's poor performance does not lie entirely with the coaches--HC and coordinators. I think Phillips makes that clear when he says:

There are certain things players can do that coaches and GM’s can’t, that’s establishing the culture in the locker room. I’m all for having fun. But, at the end of the day, there has to be a criteria established for being a professional. For most of my 10 years here, the nucleus has been the same. I’m used to seeing Geroy and Paris Jackson and Korey Banks here. Now there are guys playing significant roles on this team, and they’re young. They’re inexperienced. Immaturity is to be expected. But there were some things that could have been avoided. There were some things that were inexcusable. Focus on football should always be your No. 1 priority.”

The players have to take some ownership of the team's failures. Clearly, the "culture in the locker room" was one of low standards and immaturity. While a strong HC (and coordinators) can mitigate players' failings in this regard to some extent, the players are not children and should be expected to establish an adult, mature, goal-oriented, professional value system for the team. To some extent, this is on the veteran players for not doing more to instill professional values in the locker room, and to some extent a function of the immaturity of some of the players. Although the coaches can help to get a team fired up and playing at their best in games, we should be able to expect some of this drive to come from the players themselves. If it was a widely-held belief among the players that things were disorganized and sloppy, they should have been dismayed by this and done what they could do to rectify the situation. It looks as if this didn't happen.

I think one thing is clear: if Wally had been HC, things would never have got this sloppy, and players would have been held much more accountable than they were. So if Wally takes over again as HC (and I'm not sure just how likely this is), I think we can expect this aspect of the team's malaise to be fixed. In addition, though, he needs the detail guys--on both O and D--if the Lions are to regain their form and be competitive.
UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE... This is the SECOND post I find the member from South Pender actually is saying how I think!

A HC sets the tone for the team - performance oriented, do your job and you will be supported (old wally said he was looking always for a guy better than u and he was) but players need to know they must do their jobs.

I think that edge for a HC was huge in Wally and mini-Wally misguided due to inexperience and failure to learn.

> A HC needs a solid core who fully embrace this performance culture and Philliops suggests here something was missing.
Ironically - often in older teams with skills diminishing the core group can lower performance and they too need to be held accountable.
RP suggests this core was misguided.

HC also ripped leaders like Marsh and Phillips so what does that tell you.

> Players play but they hold each other accountable and in the good teams a coach knows that he will lose his players if the coach tolerates bad performances over and over.

If I had a new guy in my team who I believed in or was playing a guy to give him minutes and we're in tough in a game I always knew I'd be hearing from the leadership group as I was accountable to them and had to justify decisions later on when we meet to debrief and plan.

___

In the reference to letting Simon go... I wondered where that came from as it looked to have been left in the story and was to be deleted as he couldn't make the clear point he was thinking of.

I do think the REC had lousy leadership. Als REC were being publicly quoted by Black and co. on TSN as to how Crompton's REC would get any ball regardless of exposure to big hits. That was a lot of games ago and the message was how he and Forde spoke to the team the day before and the message was resoundingly clear - they love their QB and will do what it takes to make him successful. It had ZERO to do with Garcia's input as to why the REC felt this way.

If you could Google what the broadcasters said about BC REC this year and find quotes like a transcript on the internet you'd hear the opposite other than the great catches here and there. I never heard one comment about how these REC would play for Glenn and now even Glenn is saying - it was never his team.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
User avatar
notahomer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6258
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:09 pm
Location: Vancouver

Thanks for posting David....

I enjoy both the beat writers who cover the Lions (LU and Beamer). Sure is going to be interesting seeing how this all works out for the off-season.

On the Operation Orange trips Buono certainly SEEMS to make it clear he's seperate from the Coaches/Players. During the trip to Ottawa all the Coaches did go out to eat together (Buono too!) but the pre-game meal Buono says his coaches/players need to get ready on their own. Obviously a pre-game meal is just one small thing but it does seem like he contemplates things....

Its hard also, IMO, simply because its a delicate balance. You want the GM to do his job but he's also got to let the Head Coach have enough independence to truly do his job too. I went to two practices this year and enjoyed both. I can't say if the habits were sloppy or not. I've been to practices when Simon was playing here too and they didn't seem any different than the ones he was involved in.
Post Reply