Fire Khari Jones

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

User avatar
SammyGreene
Team Captain
Posts: 8092
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 am

Blitz wrote:
JohnHenry wrote:I've got to agree the offence is just spinning its wheels. The biggest problem over the past couple seasons is the inadequate pass blocking, often by the RB's who won't, or can't, execute their blocking assignments (although Antolin did a good job last night). Also the FB play must be questioned...with tacklers on the RB's as soon as they touch the ball...with generally poor pass and run blocking overall. Much of the problem is just a lack of commitment by the players to know the plays, know the rules and execute it on the field. The coaches seem lackadaisical too. They might work long hours but are they communicating with the players? I'd say these players need an attitudinal adjustment in the worst way after 3 straight losses. Firing the OC is a start. Have Glenn call his own plays, like Flutie used to do, might just be the answer. After 15 years in the league K.G. probably know these plays in his sleep (just like the opposing defensive co-ord's :wink: ).
ANYTHING is better than what is happening now.

When looking at the Khari Jones situation I tend to look at the bigger picture first, going right back to Buono in Calgary. Buono's had John Hufnagel as his offensive coordinator and he was loved in Calgary. There was a time there, if Hufnagel wanted the HC job in Calgary they would have moved Wally out to pave the way for Hufnagel but Hufnagel was loyal.

Hufnagel introduced the spread offence in Calgary. It was a comprehensive, volume play book and it was very innovative during its time in Calgary under Hufnagel. When Hufnagel left Buono gave Cortez the keys to the offence, with the direction that he wanted the spread offence continued. Chap learned the spread offence from Cortez. Wally brought Chapdelaine to B.C. as a receivers coach and got rid of Burratto and gave the offence to Chap, because he wanted that same spread offence run here in B.C.

The spread offence was not only what Chap had been indoctrinated into as a professional coach but it was also the only offence Wally wanted to be implemented. Chap gave us the spread in 2005, won a Grey Cup with it in 2006, went to Edmonton for a season, was hired back at the urging of our receivers at the time, took over as offensive coordinator again in 2009 and continued the spread offence until Game 7 of 2011.

At that point Chap moved away from the spread. I have no idea whether it was because he sensed he was going to be fired or Wally allowed him to run something different or Chap just did. The key was that our offence changed and dramatically for the next two seasons. We went to a lot more power formations, a lot of misdirection play action, a lot of semi-boots and rollouts, short and wide bunch formations, and a lot of different running plays. Chap started to sneak more spread offence back in during the 2013 season after we struggled to open holes for Harris but came back to power formations and even more motion and misdirection to end the 2013 season successfully. We ran the football for over 200 yards per game those last 3 games and our offence looked dangerous again.

Chap left at the end of 2013. A lot of people believe Chap was fired. I don't. He left. He resigned. Whether Buono or Benevedes would have let him go is another question but they had no one in place at the time. It was written up as a mutual decision and also written as Chap was let go due to the potential impact on fan attendance. Chap had endured the criticism and the lack of job security each season but Wally saying that he would 'mentor' Chap in a previous season and publically criticizing him in 2013 were not received well from what I have come to understand. Chap had left once before, after the 2006 Grey Cup winning season, not only because the Edmonton job offered more promise but also because he knew that Benevedes, a special team coach at the time, was the heir apparent to Wally and he would never get a shot at it.

But one thing that I knew was that the next offensive coordinator would be running the old Calgary spread offence which was long past its due date. The only exception to the spread offence being the flavor of the club was in 2007, when Hufnagel, as a consultant, pushed for a more run oriented approach.

Khari Jones was also a spread offensive coach. He played in the spread as a quarterback and he ran the spread offence in Hamilton. Khari Jones has been using a very restricted spread offence. He doesn't use the variety of plays that Chap used. He re-introduced the old six receiver, empty backfield set that Hufnagel and Cortez had used in Calgary and that Chap had used in his early days in B.C.

Almost all the plays we run this season come out of that play book. We just run very few of them. We have the inside zone read run, which we use almost exclusively, other than the fly sweep. Its what's not being used that is the question mark. The shovel pass, direct snap to the tailback, the pitch toss, the shovel pass, and the draw play seem to have almost been eliminated. The tight bunch and the wide bunch are almost gone. The heavy use of motion has been greatly reduced. Play action is rare and misdirection play action even more rare.

What I don't know is who is responsible for this offensive direction. I don't know if Khari Jones is being directed to run our offence with this limited set of plays or not. Last season it was said that Chap's offence was too complicated and perhaps the direction to limit the plays in this offence is a direction from above, from Benevedes or Wally or both. We don't know if Jones was able to hire his own recievers coach or whether PaoPow was hired by Benevedes or Wally. We do know that Jones inherited Dorazio and he has as much ability to change his offensive line coach as Chap did, which is zero, no matter how many brick walls our tailbacks hit or how little pass protection he provides.

If Jones had carte blanche to run this offence as he desired and this was the result he should be gone. So should PaoPao. Dorazio's record does not inspire confidence. We've not only given up the most sacks in the past 10 seasons, suffered the most serious quarterback injuries, but we've also had many stretches where there are no holes to run to. We gave up the most sacks in the CFL in our 2006 Grey Cup winning season. In 2010 we gave up the most sacks in the CFL and were giving up the most sacks in the CFL in the first 7 games of 2011, until Chap changed the offence to more power formations and rollouts to protect the quarterback as well as to run the football. So going back to the spread offence this season, with no ability to run the football out of the spread or protect the quarterback, with Dorazio at the helm of the offensive line, was only going to be a disaster.

It is a disaster. My big questions are 1) Does Jones have the ability to run a different offensive system as Chap eventually did and more importantly 2) Would he be allowed to do so, if he did have that ability.

I don't think we have all the information. Jones is wearing most of it, as Chap did before him. I think our biggest problem is our offensive line coaching. I also think the spread offence is well past its best before due date. Its ok as a formation at times but not as an offensive philosophy and structure any more.

It can still work with a very good offensive line but it also needs a very good, very smart quarterback, a well-rounded receiving crew and a tailback who can run inside the tackles and bounce it out at times. But mostly it needs good anti-blitz plays to combat the blitz and lots of variety in plays to attempt to compensate for its weaknesses. You just can't keep trying to run between the tackles with the same run play or use a restricted number of pass plays that teams can scout easily. The spread is a disaster is an offence can't pass block against inside penetration, which we can't.

Hamilton ran a ton of different plays at our defense. Our offence, outside of one play called off the back shelf, did not. We have been very vanilla all season. We were vanilla on offence when Lulay played Ottawa, when his best strength is misdirection play action.

One thing is for sure. If Benevdes wanted Jones to open up the offence, to run a wider variety of run and pass plays, all he would have to do is give Khari Jones that direction. The problems that ail our offence are more than about Khari Jones. However, his play calling is part of the problem. Its not easy to be an offensive coordinator with poor offensive line blocking. We have the talent on the offensive line to do a much better job. With poor line blocking, an offence simply cannot exectute the spread offensive system successfully.

While I think we should be moving away from the spread offence, as Chap did in 2011, the reality is that our offensive scheme has to utilize more power formations to make up for our offensive line. Even that doesn't always work. We couldn't open holes for Harris last season for too many games, even when utilizing power formations but power formations are at least a better option than the spread.

One thing I certainly hope will not happen this time is that all of it will be blamed on Jones, as it was on Chap last season. Lessons hopefully have been learned. This is much more than just an offensive coordinator problem.
Terrific chronological breakdown Blitz. I'm a very discouraged diehard right now. To watch this offensive line struggle week in and week out, regardless of how many internationals Dorazio needs to utilize, is astounding. I long for the days when the Lions won the Grey Cup in 94 with an all Canadian offensive line.

Wally is constantly given the benefit of the doubt and I guess with his track record he should have a long leash but his loyalty to Benevides and Dorazio is hurting this team significantly, never mind the undeserving firing of two coordinators. At least when Ackles was above him there was a team president with a deep football background who surely would be disgusted with the offensive product on the field right now. Skulsky only cares about guaranteeing wins and being a cheerleader on the sidelines.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25104
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

In this business it's what have you done recently, not what you did in the past. Much of this debacle rest solely at the feet of Wally Buono. He chose Benevides as his successor, kept renewing Dorazio and McMann's contract despite less than stellar record. Gave a contract extension to Benevides despite his not winning a single game in the playoffs. Has Buono ever fired an assistant he hired ?
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

SammyGreene wrote: Terrific chronological breakdown Blitz. I'm a very discouraged diehard right now. To watch this offensive line struggle week in and week out, regardless of many internationals Dorazio needs utilize, is astounding.
Times two.

Been busy. But just read the post by Blitz once again. Truly outstanding retrospective. :thup:

In football you are as good as your last game. Or your last ten games. Or twenty. On all those counts, we are middling. Middling but slipping. By next year we might be clearly out of the playoff race rather early in the season.

Can we guarantee a win vs Ottawa?
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Terrific chronological breakdown Blitz. I'm a very discouraged diehard right now. To watch this offensive line struggle week in and week out, regardless of many internationals Dorazio needs utilize, is astounding. I long for the days when the Lions won the Grey Cup in 94 with an all Canadian offensive line.

Wally is constantly given the benefit of the doubt and I guess with his track record he should be given a long leash but his loyalty to Benevides and Dorazio is hurting this team significantly, never mind the undeserving firing of two coordinators. At least when Ackles was above him there was a team president with a deep football ground who surely would be disgusted with the offensive product on the field right now. Skulsky only cares about guaranteeing wins and being a cheerleader on the sidelines
Fascinating that you wrote about Ackles Sammy, because I was going to discuss the importance of Ackles, and then forgot about it...and I'm really happy you did.

Bobby Ackles and Buono met every week to discuss football. Ackles went outside to hire Buono in the first place. He was not a guy who would just hire from the inside. It's only a guess by a highly doubt that Ackles would have supported the hiring of Benevedes without a hiring process. Just the process itself would have been beneficial for Benevedes, even if he had gotten the job.

Ackles role as President was expansive. His background as a personnel guy in the NFL, as well as his Leo background was a real positive. Ackles also knew his football and had paid his dues big time. He has been missed much more I believe, than we often realize. He not only understood the fan base and the community but his guidance to Buono is also missed.

No question that this is bad offensive football. I feel really bad for a guy like Matt Norman. He was never a guard in college, was never developed to be a center, and was thrust into the role at training camp. I consider the center position the toughest spot to play, after quarterback. The center has to make all the line calls, has to snap the football as well as block, and has the most complicated assignments on the offensive line. To make matters worse, he has Dorazio as his mentor. Our Lions should have hired Angus Reid in some role to help Norman this season.

I'm a discouraged die hard too Sammy. We have the best defense in the CFL, it has tossed out five end zone shutouts this season and we've lost three of them. We've played in the lowest scoring game in 40 years, when we played the new Ottawa franchise. This offence is miserable to watch.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12607
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

TheLionKing wrote:It is worthwhile to note that a lot of the postings on this forum is fan conjecture, speculation. For example, Wally did not look around before anointing Benevides as his successor. We really don't know that for a fact....perhaps he did.....or not. It seems that if something is repeated again and again it takes on a life of it's own.
Well said. I can think of a couple of examples this year of things that have been frequently repeated.

One example that is most relevant to this thread is the suggestion that B.C.'s offence is responsible for a lot of two-and-outs. That's not true. In fact, going into this past week at least, the B.C. offence led the league in the number of second-down conversions and second-down conversion percentage. They had the third fewest number of two-and-outs. They also ranked second in the league in number of offensive plays and third in the league in number of first downs. Most other offensive stats are in the middle of the pack. They're fourth in average offensive yards per game, for example. The Lions actually ranked first in number of first downs passing.

Where the B.C. offence is below average is in scoring. The Lions ranked seventh in scoring. We have to keep in mind, though, that scoring is down all across the league by about seven points a game. The B.C. offence is not scoring points like we've seen in the past but the same thing can be said to some extent for most offences around the league. Defences have been able to shut opponents down more than at any time in recent history. That's not all on Khari Jones.

The Khari Jones offence can be criticized for a lot of things, including the over-reliance on three key offensive players (two of whom are injured for the season), the unwilingness until the past few weeks to involve the three national receivers in the game plan, the lack of innovation in the running game and the constant juggling of players on the O-line. Jones has had to play the hand that he's been dealt, which includes the near-season-long injury to Travis Lulay and the season-ending injuries to his then-leading receiver Courtney Taylor and to his leading rusher and top all-around player Andrew Harris.

I was probably a Jacques Chapdelaine fan before there were other Jacques Chapdelaine fans on this board. I think Blitz surpassed me in his praise of Chapdelaine in recent years. I loved his multiformational offence, meticulous game-planning and half-time adjustments, and most importantly in the way he found creative ways to get the ball in the hands of his stars, especially Geroy Simon, Arland Bruce and Andrew Harris. I also acknowledged that fans wanted change, and hoped that fresh perspectives on the offence could help open up the passing game with a more vertical attack. Khari Jones, with his lack of experience as a coordinator, can't be expected to match the experience of offensive-minded coaches like George Cortez in Sasatchewan or Kent Austin in Hamilton. But in fact B.C. under Jones ranked ahead of Saskatchewan and Hamilton in average offensive yardage per game going into this past weekend.

I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel on Jones. I expected the offence to start slowly and get better as the year went on but I didn't expect the injury situation to worsen as the year went along. Most people learn from their mistakes and adversity. Jones has faced a lot of adversity and has made mistakes. There is still time to overcome adversity, learn from those mistakes and turn this season around.
User avatar
cromartie
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5011
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 2:31 pm
Location: Cleveland, usually

Here is my hunch.

Barring some sort of winning streak, this is a coaching staff full of dead men walking. Even if they make the crossover, head out east and lose, they're still dead men walking. The gate still matters, and if this staff is brought back intact it is going to negatively impact the gate significantly. They're already out $1 million on the guarantee. They're already losing money on a Grey Cup game they're not going to appear in. There is a lot of money lost here, and this is a business, first and foremost. Even to someone like Wally.

If you don't think Wally can change, I'd encourage you to take a look at the wholesale shuffling he did to the front office/scouting last season. He had/has a great relationship with Shivers, and after last season he basically busted Shivers down to Private. I'd also take a hard look at the decision he's likely to have to make with Travis this offseason. I would place a more than small but less than large bet on him burning the ship as it comes to the coaching staff and the QB position.

But cro, you ask, in favor of whom? I'm not really sure. If he and Paul LaPolice are tight, I'm inclined to think he'd offer LaPo the job. And I think LaPo would take it. But I thought LaPo got a raw deal in Winnipeg under some really bad circumstances and hadn't lost the confidence of his players when he was axed, so it could be a personal bias. There could be others.

One of the things that is so maddening about diagnosing problems on offense is that there are so many. The line. The play calling. The tendencies of the quarterback. The poor playbook. Better defenses across the league. The entire offense has different problems at different times, but ultimately a failure to execute falls on the coordinator. It's going to fall on all of them. And, honestly, it probably should.
User avatar
Sir Purrcival
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4622
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Comox Valley

Blitz wrote:
Fascinating that you wrote about Ackles Sammy, because I was going to discuss the importance of Ackles, and then forgot about it...and I'm really happy you did.

Bobby Ackles and Buono met every week to discuss football. Ackles went outside to hire Buono in the first place. He was not a guy who would just hire from the inside. It's only a guess by a highly doubt that Ackles would have supported the hiring of Benevedes without a hiring process. Just the process itself would have been beneficial for Benevedes, even if he had gotten the job.

Ackles role as President was expansive. His background as a personnel guy in the NFL, as well as his Leo background was a real positive. Ackles also knew his football and had paid his dues big time. He has been missed much more I believe, than we often realize. He not only understood the fan base and the community but his guidance to Buono is also missed.

It twould appear that several of us are thinking much along the same lines re: Ackles. These were my thoughts on it after the Toronto debacle.
Sir Purrcival wrote:I have tickets to the remaining home game this season and I can honestly say right now that I am not looking forward to them. I usually highly anticipate a new season and lament the end of one but if this trend continues, I don't think the end of the year will come soon enough for me. I am really starting to believe that a clean sweep of the coaching staff is going to be required before the house will eventually be put in order. That may also mean a different GM. I don't want to be disloyal to Wally. I remember well what this team was like before he came but I also wonder if we are seeing the long term effects of the loss of Bobby Ackles. Wally allegedly used Bobby as a sounding board about many things and without his guiding influence, we seem to have flirted with mediocrity constantly. It might be just the loss talking but I see little to be cheery about with this team going forward. We seem to be slowly descending from a premier team (don't think we are one now) and each year the problems seem to be a little more widespread. Wally has long carried the label of being somewhat inflexible and slow to react. It for all the world appears as though he has managed to train his coaching replacement too well in that regard. If a house cleaning were to occur, I fear that Wally might be inclined to replace that house with another that also tends to reflect his methods both the good and the bad.
and this
Sir Purrcival wrote:
I understand and agree, nothing lasts forever, no one person is an entire answer. Ackles was however, one of the few that I have seen in this organization with the oomph to talk with Wally as a true peer. As it stands now, most can't really hold a candle to Wally's achievements over the years and left to his own devices, Wally seems to become his own worst enemy. That's the piece that is lacking IMO. Someone with the same force to counteract some of Wally's less helpful inclinations. You can't put the Ackles years completely behind if you still have a house that he built. He brought Wally in and for all intents and purposes Wally is his successor at least in the football sense of things. It hasn't worked out the way we would have hoped is basically what I am saying and my speculation is that the ultimate cure may lay in the demise of the house that Bobby built. I think it took his special brand of acumen and optimism to make it run successfully.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
User avatar
MexicoLionFan
Legend
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:10 pm

Firing Khari doesn't solve a thing unless Benevides, Dorazio and McMann all go as well.

I said this last week, one game after the CFL season is over, fire the lot and offer Dave Dickenson total control over the football team including naming a staff. DD would likely hire Washington back along with Dave's brother, Craig...he would put together a formidable staff and turn us into a smart football team that protects its QB...
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Downward drift. Very evident since 2011. Rough spots showing since the passing of Bobby Ackles in 2008.

If we squeak into the playoffs, I do not expect Wally Buono to make major changes. I think Braley will allow him that leeway.

If we miss the playoffs, I expect two or more assistants to be released. The right ones? Or do lifers prevail?

If we squeak in, and make a quick exit, same as just above ^.

IMO Benny is safe into next year, with his mentor showing extreme patience and reluctance to admit a mistake. Plus Wally does not want to eat the contract. Plus Wally does not want to give up total football control to anybody. Not even to a rising star like Dave Dickenson. Just as Wally did not want to give up control to John Hufnagel, back in 2007 when he was brought in as consultant for us.

With Dickenson at HC, he would be the de facto OC also. He could bring along a younger guy to mentor, just as Hufnagel did with him. DD could keep Mark W, and fill in the rest. Pie in the sky though. Ain't gonna happen. I expect DD to be HC eventually in Calgary, as they continue their excellence and dominance.

And with this, I expect further downward drift for us. Benny and his staff work their tails off. As noted over and over, the problem is the level of the competition. Many sharp Head Coaches out there. Austin. Hufnagel. Since moved on to advancement Trestman. Milanovich. Jones. Possibly O'Shea. Chamblin ain't bad, especially with Cortez and Hall assisting. The bar has risen. What worked for over 20 years for Wally is now outdated. And Wally makes significant changes at a glacial pace. That puts our team somewhere on the scale between having the benefits of stability and the disadvantages of obsolescence. Middlin' drifting downward.

Our chances of sneaking into the East for the playoffs are still pretty decent. Could a miracle happen in the playoffs? Sure, but the rust and rot would still be there.

All of this of course is just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

WestCoastJoe wrote: Plus Wally does not want to give up total football control to anybody. Not even to a rising star like Dave Dickenson.

And Wally makes significant changes at a glacial pace. That puts our team somewhere on the scale between having the benefits of stability and the disadvantages of obsolescence....
Loved your line WCJ....the 'benefits of stability and the disadvantages of obsolescence' :thup:

You are so right that Wallly does not want to give up control to anybody. That's why Benevedes is the HC and why Wally always prefers to hire from inside, selecting those he has 'mentored' - its the only way to be a 'made' man. :wink:

We can waste time discussing a Dave Dickenson or a LaPolice. It's not going to happen. It might have happened if Bobby Ackles was still with us but not with Wally having total control.

Benevedes will get another year or two, the injuries will be cited as the reason for our lack of success this season, and if Benevedes still hasn't got it done, then Mark Washington will get the shot. We will not be going outside for a new HC as long as Wally is GM.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25104
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

I will argue that the downward slide started before 2011 and carried over to the first five games in 2011.
User avatar
DanoT
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4327
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter

MexicoLionFan wrote:Firing Khari doesn't solve a thing unless Benevides, Dorazio and McMann all go as well.

I said this last week, one game after the CFL season is over, fire the lot and offer Dave Dickenson total control over the football team including naming a staff. DD would likely hire Washington back along with Dave's brother, Craig...he would put together a formidable staff and turn us into a smart football team that protects its QB...
IMO offering the HC job to Dickenson would just hasten Huff's agenda so he would turn the Stamps HC job over to Dickenson sooner.
Also keep in mind Dickenson's wife is from Calgary as are the grandparents, and the Stamps have very stable ownership. I don't see Dickenson going anywhere.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

DanoT wrote:
MexicoLionFan wrote:Firing Khari doesn't solve a thing unless Benevides, Dorazio and McMann all go as well.

I said this last week, one game after the CFL season is over, fire the lot and offer Dave Dickenson total control over the football team including naming a staff. DD would likely hire Washington back along with Dave's brother, Craig...he would put together a formidable staff and turn us into a smart football team that protects its QB...
IMO offering the HC job to Dickenson would just hasten Huff's agenda so he would turn the Stamps HC job over to Dickenson sooner.
Also keep in mind Dickenson's wife is from Calgary as are the grandparents, and the Stamps have very stable ownership. I don't see Dickenson going anywhere.
I'm usually stunned when I read that Wally would consider offering Dickenson the job or that Dickenson would want to come here. First of all, not only did Dickenson begin his playing career in Calgary, he lives there, his wife and grandparents are there, etc. but Dickenson also started his coaching career in Calgary, Hufnagel mentored Dickenson (eg: in Dickenson's first season as offensive coordinator Hugnagel still called all the plays) and he is the heir apparent. But secondly, its easy to forget that Buono also offered the starting quarterback position to Printers at the end of 2005, with a huge contract offer, and that didn't go down well with Dickenson nor did it go down well with Dickenson that Buono released him in 2007, when Dickenson still wanted to play.

The relationship between Dickenson and Buono had its testy moments and though small in stature, Dickenson was not afraid to be outspoken. I remember well when Dickenson said publically that he played for his teammates and not Buono. I might be surprised but I do not see Buono offering the HC job to a guy who is as strong inside as a Dickenson. Regardless, for a variety of reasons, I do not believe that we will ever see Dickenson as a Leo coach in the near future.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9804
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

Dickenson as others note is glued to the Stampeders. He has a great job with a great team and a HC/GM who values not only him but his players. Listen to the narrative from Hufnagel and how he values his people. He is getting wiser with his experience. He spoke of Glenn as did Dave D. when it would have been easier to do what MB did and lament the loss of their leader. Huf. and DD took the opposite approach and were effusive in their praise of their default QB. This flowed to the players and stories in the media - entire articles like Nik Lewis on Glenn.

Cornish doesn't play and before he comes back HUF speaks of JC as someone who thinks beyond just football and about the rest of his life and how he respects that. This from a HC/GM (!!!!). Impressive and players value that and will run thru the wall for coaches like that.

They insert a new running back or two and the narrative is positive. They don't care. Same with changes in the O-line. The narrative is it doesn't matter. They are just playing their game and finding plays for players that fit their skill sets and help them win.

I see Jones has a two year deal.

Lions narrative under HC MB is always negative ever since he was out arrogantly with the statement that 'we're plug and play.' That narrative was dumb and is not the same as the confidence shown by the Stamps coaching staff.

Every coach like every business leader has a story and narrative as do the players who play for them. It is the integration of the coaches' narrative with those of the players that is either in synch and is not just over the top like we hear from Lion players in the media (see Ulrich).

The Lions narrative is at best confused and at worst negative over the losses of the injured and their coaching staff is not apparently admitting their are offensive problems beyond injuries.

The mantra for some years now is that you can't teach the run game easily. I am horrified by that. I played football but am not an x's and o's guy like some of these guys here but I can tell you that if I were interviewing for a coach and he said that to me, I'd strike that clown off my list quickly.

The OL mantra has been some years - they know we're passing. And consistently... 'we did best when our coaches simplified.'

Deep hand offs in the backfield when you are backed up under the goal posts is nuts. The Cats would fake that and shovel it ahead.

I can't see Lapo here as his TSN gig is too good. He also wasn't brilliant either at all times.

It might be time for Wally to do what his HC isn't man enough to do and that is to sit down the coaches and get them focused on finding ways to run and pass and actually on 2 and 6 - toss it for 6 yards not 4.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25104
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Blitz wrote: The relationship between Dickenson and Buono had its testy moments and though small in stature, Dickenson was not afraid to be outspoken. I remember well when Dickenson said publically that he played for his teammates and not Buono. I might be surprised but I do not see Buono offering the HC job to a guy who is as strong inside as a Dickenson. Regardless, for a variety of reasons, I do not believe that we will ever see Dickenson as a Leo coach in the near future.
I agree. Dave Dickenson is not a Yes man and isn't afraid to express his opinions.
Post Reply