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Since this forum is about football terminology, I'll bring up a term that I just recently heard and it was discussed in the recently Super Bowl thread. It seems like it's used in the NFL to describe a particular type of quarterback - Game manager.

I've never heard that term used for a similar type of quarterback in the CFL so I was wondering if there are such examples.

By definition in American football, a Game manager is:

A game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, manages to perform well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game.

More on that later.

In light of the Seahawks Super Bowl win mostly because of their great defence, the media has started to compare with the great defensive championship teams - specifically the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and the 1985 Chicago Bears. And a huge correlation and trend seems to be forming when you analyze the results:

Super Bowl XXXV: Baltimore Ravens 34 - New York Giants 7
The Ravens entered the game with the second best defense in allowing yards in the league, with the fewest points allowed (165) and the fewest rushing yards allowed (970) during the regular season. The Ravens defence forced several turnovers led by the game MVP LB Ray Lewis. I easily know that last year the QB for the Ravens was Joe Flacco with his MVP performance in the Super Bowl, but couldn't remember at all who was at QB for the Ravens back on January 28, 2001. I had to look it up and it was a lesser-known Trent Dilfer who threw for 153 yards and a touchdown in 12 completions, with no interceptions. He only played a single season for the Ravens and shortly after the win he signed for the Seahawks as a backup for starter Matt Hasselbeck. It looks like Trent Dilfer never got a permanent job as a starting QB and the media labelled him as a Game manager quarterback for the Ravens that season: He "wasn't elite, but he didn't make costly mistakes, and was supported by a dominant defense."

Super Bowl XXXVII: Tampa Bay Buccaneers 48 - Oakland Raiders 21
It was the first time in Super Bowl history that the league's #1 ranked offense (Raiders) was pitted against the league's #1 ranked defense (Buccaneers). The defense won in the end with five interceptions led by MVP safety Dexter Jackson . Buccaneers quarterback Brad Johnson finished the game with 18 out of 34 completions for 215 yards and 2 touchdowns, with 1 interception, along with 10 rushing yards and played for 1.5 seasons before leaving for Minnesota.

Super Bowl XX: Chicago Bears 46 - New England Patriots 10
The Bears defense led by MVP Defensive End Richard Dent overwhelmed the Patriots. Bears quarterback Jim McMahon completed 12 out of 20 passes for 256 yards, and scored 2 short rushing touchdowns. That was definitely the peak of his career as that was the first and only time he was a Pro Bowl QB.

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In each of these blowout wins, the winning team had a great defence and the MVP was someone from defence. And it's fair to say that Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Jim McMahon are considered game managers as they do not fall in the same elite category as say Joe Montana, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, and even John Elway. Dilfer, Johnson, and McMahon are not in the hall of fame and it's very unlikely that they will be inducted.

The recent Super Bowl blowout win for the Seahawks was led by MVP Malcolm Smith. And I will not consider Russell Wilson as a game manager because the young man fully deserved to win the Super Bowl in his second season and he definitely has the potential to fall into the elite category and a future hall of famer. But if the Seahawks fall in a downward spiral and he gets released after a few seasons, then he might be considered a game manager.

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With that said, are there any CFL quarterbacks that can be considered game managers?

I think two who come to mind are the two Winnipeg Blue Bombers quarterbacks who played when the team last won their Grey Cup so many years ago.

Sean Salisbury was at the helm in the 1988 Grey Cup and in the first half he had a decent performance in most part because of former MOP receiver James Murphy. But in the second half he only made two completions and two first downs and fortunately for him his defence and special teams came to his rescue. Then in 1990 Tom Burgess was at the helm and his great defence allowed Winnipeg to demolish Edmonton 50-11. Burgess was given the MVP in Offence since at that time there were two MVP awards along with the MVC and I guess Burgess was selected by default but it was the great defence that allowed the Blue Bombers to win their last Grey Cup. It's very unlikely that Salisbury or Burgess will be inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

What are some other game manager examples in the CFL?

This term is a bit of jargon that has some truth to it as a manager is a person who accomplishes the organization's objectives through the efforts of others. Also there are external factors that arise and create crises and problems and these must be addressed. But after that it looks like jargon. You can't manage the game like a business as your opponents have their own ideas.

There were many times that Ricky Ray in Edmonton got great yards in games but the other guys won. Manning broke a completed passing record in the game but they got beaten like a rented mule.

You want your QB to protect the ball - no turnovers - sustained drives - score.

Late in the game and leading you want the same - eat the clock - protect the ball.

But to suggest any QB in the game is able to manage the game - for me - is just jargon.

Toppy Vann wrote:.....But to suggest any QB in the game is able to manage the game - for me - is just jargon.

if it is going to continue then adjusting for the 'mobile' QB will further cloudy things. I guess another way to describe the 'game manager' is the antithesis of Brett F. (oops I promised not to mention Mr Retired in a past NFL thread ) He
was certainly a gunslinger which is another form of jargon I guess. The kind of QB who will take a chance especially on 3rd down. Why not heave it forty yards downfield? Your guy comes up with it or gets a PI, GREAT but if it gets picked off, so WHAT, you were going to punt anyway........

This article lists Russell Wilson as one of the top 10 worst starting quarterbacks that won a Super Bowl:
http://www.answers.com/article/1180202/ ... 14#slide=6

1. Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens
2. Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants
3. Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4. Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
5. Eli Manning, New York Giants
6. Joe Namath, New York Jets
7. Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears
8. Phil Simms, New York Giants
9. Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks
10. Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers

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Any equivalent CFL quarterbacks that won a Grey Cup?

Here's my top 5, and sticking with my original examples:

1. Sean Salisbury, Winnipeg Blue Bombers
2. Tom Burgess, Winnipeg Blue Bombers
3. Marcus Crandell, Calgary Stampeders
4. Chuck Ealey, Hamilton Tiger-Cats
5. Kerry Joseph, Saskatchewan Roughriders (true, he won 2007 MOP but only had one good season in an otherwise mediocre professional football career).

Courtesy of https://thesportsdrop.com/15-nfl-scrubs ... mpionship/

17 NFL players who were simply lucky and didn't really deserve to win a Super Bowl championship:

Jason Garrett
TRENT DILFER
JARED LORENZEN
DAVID CARR
David Tyree
BRAD JOHNSON
LIMAS SWEED
BILL ROMANOWSKI
JEFF HOSTETLER
ROHAN DAVEY
MARC WILSON
ROY GERELA
KENYATTA WALKER
DEREK LOVILLE
PATRICK PASS
MARV FLEMING
DALE HELLESTRAE

The article mentions two of the three game manager quarterbacks that I mentioned in my original post. But I'm surprised that the author mentioned Jeff Hostetler over Jim McMahon.

A game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, manages to perform well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams. The player is expected to not lose games with interceptions, fumbles, or poor decisions, particularly during important situations near the end of a game.

Bo Levi Mitchell is a good "game manager" in the CFL context but not in the above definition as he has good individual statistics. He tosses relatively few interceptions, takes what defences show him and generally protects the ball.

I find this term more unique to the 4 down game as they've got that extra down to make a play whereas in the CFL with 2 downs typically you can't be the average QB with not so great stats who makes smart decisions (toss it out of bounds) or get two great runs in that put it 4th and less than a yard. If all you can do in the CFL is run - as the QB can't pass it gets a lot tougher to play as you give the DEF less to think about and do.

A good 4 down QB who's a good "game manager" isn't going to win unless the DEF plays well - especially if the other team score some high enough points.

It's funny how sports talk radio and media can invent these terms like hockey and soccer where I've heard parents say about the team I was coaching in soccer "your team has a good transition game" and I'm thinking WTF - "I haven't a clue what that means" as it's simply not relevant. As a coach all you can do in soccer is ensure that your players know what to do when you gain ball control in your end. Just heard the new Whitecaps coach yesterday or so 'jargonizing' (lol a new word) how a new player plays best between the lines ...lol. A football coach might now have to talk about a slot back that way - 'he plays well between the lines' lol Lines of what? Coke?

Robbie wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:01 pm

The recent Super Bowl blowout win for the Seahawks was lead by MVP Malcolm Smith. And I will not consider Russell Wilson as a game manager because the young man fully deserved to win the Super Bowl in his second season and he definitely has the potential to fall into the elite category and a future hall of famer. But if the Seahawks fall in a downward spiral and he gets released after a few seasons, then he might be considered a game manager.

With his new recent contract that made him the highest paid NFL player, Russell Wilson is certainly NOT a game manager.

He certainly has a lot of pressure for the Seahawks as if the team wants to win, it's all on him as since Super Bowl 49, the legion of boom defence have all but disbanded, there was never a long-term running back after the Beast retired, and even the kickers have come and gone since then.

Robbie wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:01 pm

With that said, are there any CFL quarterbacks that can be considered game managers?

I think two who come to mind are the two Winnipeg Blue Bombers quarterbacks who played when the team last won their Grey Cup so many years ago.

Sean Salisbury was at the helm in the 1988 Grey Cup and in the first half he had a decent performance in most part because of former MOP receiver James Murphy. But in the second half he only made two completions and two first downs and fortunately for him his defence and special teams came to his rescue. Then in 1990 Tom Burgess was at the helm and his great defence allowed Winnipeg to demolish Edmonton 50-11. Burgess was given the MVP in Offence since at that time there were two MVP awards along with the MVC and I guess Burgess was selected by default but it was the great defence that allowed the Blue Bombers to win their last Grey Cup. It's very unlikely that Salisbury or Burgess will be inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

What are some other game manager examples in the CFL?

Tom Wilkinson with his "lame duck" passes was your prototypical game manager:



He couldn't pass, run or kick. All he could do was beat you. Ask his buddy Dan Kepley here what Tom Wilkinson meant to the Esks!

Foxhound wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:17 am

Robbie wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:01 pm

With that said, are there any CFL quarterbacks that can be considered game managers?

I think two who come to mind are the two Winnipeg Blue Bombers quarterbacks who played when the team last won their Grey Cup so many years ago.

Sean Salisbury was at the helm in the 1988 Grey Cup and in the first half he had a decent performance in most part because of former MOP receiver James Murphy. But in the second half he only made two completions and two first downs and fortunately for him his defence and special teams came to his rescue. Then in 1990 Tom Burgess was at the helm and his great defence allowed Winnipeg to demolish Edmonton 50-11. Burgess was given the MVP in Offence since at that time there were two MVP awards along with the MVC and I guess Burgess was selected by default but it was the great defence that allowed the Blue Bombers to win their last Grey Cup. It's very unlikely that Salisbury or Burgess will be inducted into the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

What are some other game manager examples in the CFL?

Tom Wilkinson with his "lame duck" passes was your prototypical game manager:



He couldn't pass, run or kick. All he could do was beat you. Ask his buddy Dan Kepley here what Tom Wilkinson meant to the Esks!

Interesting suggestion, Foxhound, and welcome to the board.

While Tom Wilkinson may have been out-shined and overshadowed by Warren Moon at QB during the Eskimo dynasty years, I'd say it would be an overstatement to label him as a Game Manager. After all, he did establish himself as a good player with individual season awards with the 1974 CFL MOP and CFL all-star selections in 1978 and 1979 topped off by an induction to the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

This is far better than the two previous examples that I provided, Tom Burgess and Sean Salisbury, who never won any individual season awards and will be unlikely inducted to the hall of fame, but managed to win a Grey Cup because of a good defence and possible running game.

Rick Cassata of the Ottawa Rough Riders perhaps fits this category better than any other quarterback. He led the Rough Riders to a 22-18 victory over the Edmonton Eskimos in the 1973 Grey Cup Game.

Kevin Glenn may be the quintessential game manager. He's made a career these last 15+ years of being every team's fallback at QB when they're desperate to hold things together while their starting QB mends.