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zark wrote:So, do you think that voters should be forced to vote? they do it in Australia. I'm not sure , but I think they get fined fifty dollars.There are people out there that use the excuse of ..."not voting is making a statement". To me , it means you're fat and lazy, but that's just my opinion.
Just go out and vote.
I don't think Harper will get his majority, so expect things to get worse. Another election within 2 yrs. Harper does not play well with the other children, and he doesn't talk to media.
That fighter jet project of his is sounding dumber.

if you force people to vote, many will deliberately vote in ways to screw up the results. I think it should be the other way. People should demonstrate some level of awareness and understanding of the major issues before being allowed to vote.

as for not voting, why should one vote if one does not like any of the choices? I beleive I will not vote in the next BC election for just that reason.

KnowItAll wrote:

zark wrote:So, do you think that voters should be forced to vote? they do it in Australia. I'm not sure , but I think they get fined fifty dollars.There are people out there that use the excuse of ..."not voting is making a statement". To me , it means you're fat and lazy, but that's just my opinion.
Just go out and vote.
I don't think Harper will get his majority, so expect things to get worse. Another election within 2 yrs. Harper does not play well with the other children, and he doesn't talk to media.
That fighter jet project of his is sounding dumber.

if you force people to vote, many will deliberately vote in ways to screw up the results. I think it should be the other way. People should demonstrate some level of awareness and understanding of the major issues before being allowed to vote.

as for not voting, why should one vote if one does not like any of the choices? I beleive I will not vote in the next BC election for just that reason.

Not voting has some merit. The uninformed are better off not voting. Quite often it makes little difference which party is elected.

It is better, however, IMO if the people are informed and do vote.

An old time philosopher said that: "People get the government they deserve." If you don't vote, that is especially true. If you do vote, you at least try to keep the politicians more in line with higher standards.

zark wrote:So, do you think that voters should be forced to vote? they do it in Australia. I'm not sure , but I think they get fined fifty dollars.There are people out there that use the excuse of ..."not voting is making a statement". To me , it means you're fat and lazy, but that's just my opinion.
Just go out and vote.
I don't think Harper will get his majority, so expect things to get worse. Another election within 2 yrs. Harper does not play well with the other children, and he doesn't talk to media.
That fighter jet project of his is sounding dumber.

This is a good balanced view of compulsory voting:
http://geography.about.com/od/political ... ryvote.htm

Not sure there are huge positives or negatives either way.

There are huge numbers of Aussies here in Hong Kong and they say that those who do not want to vote consider their AUS$20 fine a cost that comes up every 4 or so years - not a big deal to them. If you fight in court and lose the fine is more like AUS$50.

I like the idea of generating civic interest more positively and strongly believe that dropping the voting age to 16 or 17 and letting high school students vote in Federal elections (and provincial) would possibly be the most significant means of generating a life long interest in voting.

I got curious about politics in 1962 and 1963 fed elections while in high school as my North Van HS friend's dad was President of the local Tories who were up against soon-to-be Minister of Fisheries, the Hon. Jack Davis. I helped out but our guy lost. Later as I left university I realized I was more liberal on social issues than the Conservatives were then (but back then the Tories weren't as strong in religious values).

In 1972 when I ran and came third in New West federally we did a number of all candidate debates at high schools in New West and Centennial and to this day am very proud of how good the student questions were and how broad their range of interests in topics were. There questions were far more policy oriented than in the all candidate meetings. In business in the 1990s I ran into a person who said his interest in politics was spurred by that one meeting we did at Centennial HS. At all candidates meetings after that I met parents of high school students who said their son or daughter who got them out to our meetings. I was stopped in McDonalds on North Road and in New West by students. My biggest political blunder was not running again in 1974 as our candidate lost by some 300 votes. I got double what the Lib polls projected for me and on election night the head of the campaign told me if they knew I would do that well they'd have given us some funding!

Youth voting and putting the voting booths as they do at schools would get them voting. If we older folks fear what they'd do then we'd have to get out and vote and beat their votes. All good for democracy.

I would love to see politics back away from the hostility of today (US style) and more on the civility that was real in 1970s and 80s. I had a meeting in Ottawa with staff of the PM's office while on a business trip there six months after the election. As I walked up the drive in the April 7th snow(!) a van stopped and this MP was waving at me to get it. It was Stuart Leggatt the NDP who won that election. He invited me to meet that night for drinks and meet the NDP caucaus who would be there in their offices about 8 pm as the House sat late! Despite being a Liberal and despite the knowledge that I might run again they were all very gracious as all parties were back then. It might be there but I just don't see it.

In BC when WR Bennett was leader of the opposition and Alec MacDonald was Attorney General (1974) I was in the AGs office for a meeting with the Deputy AG and someone came in asked if anyone had seen Alec. The reply: "last time I saw him he was off to play tennis with Bill Bennett."

We need more civility and more ideas in politics today.

We need gov'ts that believe for them to do better we need families and young to do better. I am shocked at how strident so many young people can be today on issues where they are simply getting a poorer deal than like in post secondary education than those who are setting the prices today got when they were young and good paying jobs were plentiful.

As George Shultz - Republican - just this year said about the USA - do more R&D as this will spin off the jobs. The irony is that his idol Ronald Reagan has been the most influential politician of the 20th C in getting gov'ts of all stripes including Canada to do less in funding innovation.

Toppy Vann wrote: I like the idea of generating civic interest more positively and strongly believe that dropping the voting age to 16 or 17 and letting high school students vote in Federal elections (and provincial) would possibly be the most significant means of generating a life long interest in voting.

do that, and we will have the rhino party running the country.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

As for voting ages, I wouldn't mind seeing them drop to 17. Start to engage students and get them thinking about these things.

As for mandatory voting. I think a carrot might be better than a stick. How about a small tax credit for those that vote. Say, 30 or 40 dollars. Won't work you say? All you have to do is think of how the grocery stores saved a ton of money retrieving grocery carts by adding that little .25$ deposit. We can always appeal to someone's penny pinching gene and I would be willing to bet that many would even start to think about the choices while they are saving their dollars. Might cost a bit of money but it would be once every few years and certainly would give a reason for people to get engaged.

Sir Purrcival wrote:You say that like it's a bad thing.

As for voting ages, I wouldn't mind seeing them drop to 17. Start to engage students and get them thinking about these things.

As for mandatory voting. I think a carrot might be better than a stick. How about a small tax credit for those that vote. Say, 30 or 40 dollars. Won't work you say? All you have to do is think of how the grocery stores saved a ton of money retrieving grocery carts by adding that little .25$ deposit. We can always appeal to someone's penny pinching gene and I would be willing to bet that many would even start to think about the choices while they are saving their dollars. Might cost a bit of money but it would be once every few years and certainly would give a reason for people to get engaged.

I like it. At first glance, I think it could work.

For those with strong apathy, who cannot be induced to vote, who needs them? They give up their franchise, and they have no say, and they get ... whatever ...

A small incentive, rather than a small punishment.

I like that idea too!
Although, anyone who thinks Goofy parties will be elected by high school students are way too old. My 14 yr old is just getting into Iggy(Iggy is cool BTW) and my 8yr old loves the speeches and the campaign trail. Most kids think Harper is a TOOL. In my neighborhood, anyway. Alberta oilsands?...not cool. Fighter jets? ...not cool...corporate tax breaks?...not cool. Kids know more than you think. Maybe YOUR kids are dumb and will vote for goofy parties, but around here, we're educating our youth.
If you want more kids involved in politics, you have to get the debate back in. But the Loudmouth Baird approach, turns alot of kids off.
Vote!!! Educate yourself and vote!

And if you're part of our youth?...don't let old people tell you you're too dumb to vote.

zark wrote:I like that idea too!
Although, anyone who thinks Goofy parties will be elected by high school students are way too old. My 14 yr old is just getting into Iggy(Iggy is cool BTW) and my 8yr old loves the speeches and the campaign trail. Most kids think Harper is a TOOL. In my neighborhood, anyway. Alberta oilsands?...not cool. Fighter jets? ...not cool...corporate tax breaks?...not cool. Kids know more than you think. Maybe YOUR kids are dumb and will vote for goofy parties, but around here, we're educating our youth.
If you want more kids involved in politics, you have to get the debate back in. But the Loudmouth Baird approach, turns alot of kids off.
Vote!!! Educate yourself and vote!

And if you're part of our youth?...don't let old people tell you you're too dumb to vote.

I agree that kids won't vote for dumb parties as they would not vote in blocks.

Not sure I like the tax credit idea for voting or that'd be the next election promise...lol... Our party will call your tax credit and raise it $50 bucks..lol.



If they were voting right at the school then this ties into their courses and will get them in the habit of voting much like starting donating blood early in life keeps one doing the rest of the time too or even like wearing seat belts.

We are not demanding enough as it is of our gov'ts and we should expect more.

Knowitall is making the most sense here . If they're uninformed , who needs 'em . If they don't care , who needs em .
What Zark posted above is most revealing . The young are very impressionable and the left-wing knows full well how to manipulate them . That is why the political left makes so much of a deal of pushing for the young and the uninformed to vote .

Just got this tid bit in the mail ;

"For all those who think the Sun shines out of Jack Layton's Bottom end The basic facts are as follows.

Layton and his wife Olivia Chow both sat on Toronto City Council for years before making the move to federal politics. While on City Council, they were making $100,000 a year. They used a fraudulent scheme to get into subsidized housing. What they did was register the house in the name of Chow's mother who
was an unemployed immigrant. In this way, they lived for years in a taxpayer funded house while being paid $100,000 yearly from taxpayers.

They only moved when a reporter exposed the story.
The real irony is that Chow styled herself as an advocate for the homeless on City Council.
It astounds me that the media never mention this.

It was theft, pure and simple.

Today, Layton and Chow earn $350,000 together as MPs. They each get a housing allowance for living in Ottawa although they live together. According to House of Commons records for 2010, they spent one million dollars last year on travel and perks. Because they're MPs. there is no detail.
When asked, Layton said that most of it was for travel back to Toronto to visit their constituents. That comes out to $20,000 a week for travel. Toronto is 300 miles from Ottawa. Again, it's theft, pure and simple.

But speaking of simple, NDP loyalists see Jack and Olivia as the working man's friends. The simplistic media play up this image. Simplistic Canadians give Jack a free ride on trust.

Now the other night during the big debate Jack had the nerve to say we don't need more jails because all the crooks are already in the Senate.

I think we better make Jack a Senator!"
Something that may be worth checking into , if your considering voting for this guy .

Sir Purrcival wrote:You say that like it's a bad thing.

As for voting ages, I wouldn't mind seeing them drop to 17. Start to engage students and get them thinking about these things.

As for mandatory voting. I think a carrot might be better than a stick. How about a small tax credit for those that vote. Say, 30 or 40 dollars. Won't work you say? All you have to do is think of how the grocery stores saved a ton of money retrieving grocery carts by adding that little .25$ deposit. We can always appeal to someone's penny pinching gene and I would be willing to bet that many would even start to think about the choices while they are saving their dollars. Might cost a bit of money but it would be once every few years and certainly would give a reason for people to get engaged.

I think you'd end up seeing a record number of rejected votes as the apathetic show up to stuff their unmarked ballots in the box and collect their entitlement.

Afghan war costs $22B, so far: study

VICTORIA, B.C. - The Afghan war is going to end up costing the Defence Department more than $22 billion, in actual money spent on the mission and future payments to rebuild equipment and provide long-term care for veterans, a military conference heard yesterday.

By The Ottawa Citizen September 18, 2008

jcalhoun wrote:I once drove 300km from an oil rig in the Yukon to cast my ballot in Fort Nelson, (where my riding was) and then high-tailed it back in time for work the next morning. My candidate won with about 64% of the vote, and looking at it logically, it didn't make any sense for me to go to the effort and expense that I did. But I tend to view voting as a duty, while my sister's friend views it as a privilege. I think that's a critical difference.

Canada has a fairly large Taiwanese-Canadian population, especially in Vancouver and Toronto. Many Taiwanese-Canadians make it a big effort and are willing to spend a lot of time, money, and energy to fly back to Taiwan just for the sake of voting whenever a Taiwan Presidential election comes around. I wonder how many Canadian expatriates are prepared to fly/drive back to Canada to vote on May 2, or at least register with Elections Canada’s International Register of Electors to be eligible to vote from anywhere in the world. Very, very few, I believe.

Hey Toppy Vann, what is the general consensus among your fellow Canadian expats in Hong Kong? Do they have just as much interest in the Canadian federal election as you do?

If you collect CPP or expect to collect CPP then vote.
If you use BC med or any other gov't med.service, then vote
If you have foreign issues ( I have relatives in the armed forces, retiring from it and entering it),Then vote
Get off your fat arse and vote.
Spoiling ballots, and abstaining is an **** **** thing to do.
Only old people would think the youth are easily manipulated. I was young, and I still am, and I thought for myself. Just ask my parents. My 8 yr old loves the debates. So lets not degrade their political education. We all had to learn it ourselves. REMEMBER?????
Just vote!