Suitor Blog re: NFL exodus

[Hambone]

Glen Suitor offered the following that I think is a pretty good assessment of why we may be seeing more activity when it comes to CFL players signing in the NFL. I think it would be interesting to get more numbers on the volumes over the years. CFL players going south is not a new thing. I'm not even sure if the fact 12 have signed so far this year is even abnormally high. Maybe because 3 are Lions this year it's more noticeable. When I think back over the years I recall Wake, Logan, Wilson, Printers, Muhammed, Lacoste, Fernandez, Bright, Holt, Sciarra, Musso, Scott, even some guy named Passaglia. Kapp technically was traded. There's no doubt several others I'm forgetting

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/glen_suitor/?id=306896

[Blue In BC]

There is no doubt that more CFL players are leaving for the NFL this off season. How many actually stick is another question.

Regardless, it is a concern IMHO.

[B.C.FAN]

I think it would be interesting to get more numbers on the volumes over the years. CFL players going south is not a new thing. I'm not even sure if the fact 12 have signed so far this year is even abnormally high. Maybe because 3 are Lions this year it's more noticeable.

The numbers are interesting. This year's window hasn't closed but here's how it stacks up:
2010: 12 CFL players, including three Lions, signed deals with the NFL.
2009: 12 CFL players, including three Lions, signed deals with the NFL.

Here are the 2009 signees:
B.C.: Stefan Logan, Cam Wake, Jamall Johnson. (Johnson was actually a free agent, not an option-year player.)
Calgary: Charleston Hughes, Terrarius George, Pat McDonald.
Edmonton: Kelly Campbell, Kenny Onatolu.
Toronto: P.K. Sam, Byron Parker, Dominique Dorsey, Cliff Washburn.

[Blue In BC]

IIRC, 7 of those had had NFL try outs didn't make it last year.

As pointed out, there is still another 3 - 4 weeks that more players might exercise their option clause.

I guess we'll see how this works out.

I understand that many of these may come back. However, players showing up mid season is not always a good thing. At that point they may have new systems to learn others have transitioned into their previous role.

Add all of that to they are near the end of existing contracts and teams will want to get some sort of extension in place to bring them back.

Not much point of a 5 game rental at the end of the season.

[Hambone]

I think it would be interesting to get more numbers on the volumes over the years. CFL players going south is not a new thing. I'm not even sure if the fact 12 have signed so far this year is even abnormally high. Maybe because 3 are Lions this year it's more noticeable.

The numbers are interesting. This year's window hasn't closed but here's how it stacks up:
2010: 12 CFL players, including three Lions, signed deals with the NFL.
2009: 12 CFL players, including three Lions, signed deals with the NFL.

Here are the 2009 signees:
B.C.: Stefan Logan, Cam Wake, Jamall Johnson. (Johnson was actually a free agent, not an option-year player.)
Calgary: Charleston Hughes, Terrarius George, Pat McDonald.
Edmonton: Kelly Campbell, Kenny Onatolu.
Toronto: P.K. Sam, Byron Parker, Dominique Dorsey, Cliff Washburn.

Interesting.

Still in the NFL (25%)
Logan, Wake, Onatolu
Returned to their same CFL team (66%):
Hughes, George, McDonald, Campbell, Sam, Parker, Dorsey, Washburn (McDonald, Parker & Washburn were all traded at some point after their return, Campbell is debatable but all indications are he will be in Edmonton this year and didn't consider any other CFL options)
Returned to a different CFL team:
Johnson (not option year)
Only a small historical sample but 75% returned to the CFL. 8 out of 9 returnees initially came back to their same organization. How many of those were under the option year clause I don't know. But the one player who left as a free agent, ergo the old non-option clause way, didn't return to his former organization.

[Tighthead]

Dallas signed Titus Ryan and worked out Sandro DeAngleis

[Blue In BC]

Dallas signed Titus Ryan and worked out Sandro DeAngleis

Nuts. That's another young player that the Bombers had high hopes about.

[notahomer]

Didn't John Chick (Roughriders) sign with the Colts too? This signing puzzled me. I mean as a BC fan I'm glad to see Chick go and I wish him the best. But considering the Colts are still in the playoffs... It really pointed out these NFL teams are ALWAYS trying to get better. Getting ready for training camp before you're even done in the playoffs.

[David]

Dallas signed Titus Ryan and worked out Sandro DeAngleis

De Angelis comes as no surprise. He announced his intention to try the NFL about a week after Grey Cup this year. I like his chances of getting signed too. There were a lot of NFL teams that struggled with field goal consistency this year: Dallas, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Houston etc. And who could forget the San Diego Chargers' Nate Kaeding's complete meltdown last week against the Jets?

DH

[OV - 54:40]

It was reported that Chick got the 2nd highest signing bonus ever for a CFL player (not sure if that included W. Moon, who signed for the highest salary in NFL history when he left the CFL). Wake got $900,000 last year, so Chick probably got around $800,000...which means the chick has flown the roost for good! I doubt many other option signees received much if any signing bonus...and most will be returning to the CFL over the summer...but with replacement players having taken their roster spots.

It cost NFL teams virtually nothing to sign CFL players for training camp and preseason. We are the only football league left for the NFL scouts to scour, and as a result we're seeing an exodus.

But like the little mouse sleeping up against an elephant, the CFL must be wary of the NFL and protect its turf and players. You know, if the NFL ever raised their roster limit by 10 players, they could sign virtually every player in the CFL?

I believe Dieter Brock signed for pretty big bucks when he left the CFL and was basically anointed the Rams starter back in the 80s - way more money (adjusted for the times = wayyyyyyyyy more than Wake or Chick got) than a good signing bonus these days.

As Hambone was getting at - there have often been years when plenty of CFL stars signed for NFL try-outs in the off-season in the past. What's happening now more it seems, is young, fairly unpoven guys (like Guice or Ryan - who couldn't hold Geroy or Cahoon or Fantuz's jockstraps as receivers) are getting NFL calls as TC projects.

I agree with West Coast Joe - that it is maddening & frustrating for CFL fans - BUT - deal with it - it's been happening for years; IF the NFL starts raiding LOTS of CFL stars, plus a lot of these younger more prospect/project guys, it will be very worrisome - don't see that yet, but could come to that; and yes - IMO the CFL should work out some sort of compensation package - especially for this option year business or a Wally type letting guys out of CFL contracts.

[Rammer]

Just to organize the RGM pickup, he isn't likely to make a team as a receiver, he is likely being brought in as a ST returner. I don't expect him to stick as he doesn't have the ability to break arm tackles. I don't think that Geroy and Cahoon are his comparisons going from the CFL to NFL, but rather Logan and Dorsey.

[OV - 54:40]

Just to organize the RGM pickup, he isn't likely to make a team as a receiver, he is likely being brought in as a ST returner. I don't expect him to stick as he doesn't have the ability to break arm tackles. I don't think that Geroy and Cahoon are his comparisons going from the CFL to NFL, but rather Logan and Dorsey.

Yeah, but my point is that the CFL is not losing a lot of star, top notch players to NFL try-out now compared to past days; Chick, Tsoumpas, Mallett maybe, DeAngelis if he signs - are proven CFL stars; but a lot of the other signings are more mediocre or part-time CFL players who are getting a shot as NFL projects or else TC fodder. IF the NFL starts signing LOTS of CFL stars, it will be more maddening or perhaps hard on the CFL. The CFL can easily replace a lot of these joe average guys the NFL is showing some interest in; and that's a CFL challenge every year - finding good new football talent; having to replace half the CFL all-star team cause they got signed in the NFL would be another matter.

Time for CFL scouts to suck it up and work harder / do a better job - that should always be a goal anyways IMO. AND - maybe a Wally type takes off the blinders to let NI talent compete at specific positions (like tailback) where he normally prefers handing jobs to imports.

[prj]

Yes...but... May I offer a brief defence for the Coach? All things being equal, a team with two starting Canadian running backs is doubly vulnerable if one/both go down with injury. Most often, the team has to find a high-level talent to replace them. And that often means an import. And that cascades through the roster where somebody else loses a spot in order to find an available import slot.

I share the sentiment, but the logic of replacing running backs is pretty compelling.

That said, I like both the youngsters being discussed for next season. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

[OV - 54:40]

Yes...but... May I offer a brief defence for the Coach? All things being equal, a team with two starting Canadian running backs is doubly vulnerable if one/both go down with injury. Most often, the team has to find a high-level talent to replace them. And that often means an import. And that cascades through the roster where somebody else loses a spot in order to find an available import slot.

I share the sentiment, but the logic of replacing running backs is pretty compelling.

That said, I like both the youngsters being discussed for next season. I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

NO CFL teams now feature 2 "starting" running backs; and if a starter goes down, you have to go to a replacement / back-up at any position. The Esks last season started with Lumsden at RB, and when he got injured, first game, they had good replacements in Whitlock (import) and McCarty (NI).

The big "ratio problem" issue of starting a NI at position x cause there would just be no decent replacements/back-ups is a tired CFL speak cliche IMO; you can assume great import players are available to step-in as replacements at any position all you like though. Have plenty of depth that you have some confidence in to be able to play - both imports & NIs, and the problem might not be as bad as advertised.