Home Sweet Dome, for 30 more Years?

[Rammer]

Interesting concept that I wouldn't mind seeing come to pass....

30 more years for the dome?; Province wants to build towers near BC Place to pay for refurbishment
The Vancouver Sun
Fri 25 Jan 2008
Page: A1 / FRONT
Section: News
Byline: Frances Bula
Source: Vancouver Sun

BC Place isn't at death's door after all. The Crown corporation that manages Vancouver's stadium, which achieved national fame last year after its inflated roof blew out, is trying to work out a deal with the city to keep it going for 30 more years by acquiring the right to build towers on the land around it.

The money from those developments, likely a mix of residential and office space, would be used to pay the 25-year-old stadium's expensive maintenance and refurbishment costs.

The decision to hang on to the stadium comes after several years of speculation that the provincial government would tear it down, speculation that was fanned by some of the people eyeing the valuable piece of downtown land for development. The speculation reached fever pitch last year when the roof on what's billed as the world's "largest air-supported domed stadium" ripped and then collapsed during a period of heavy snowfall.

Bob Rennie, the condo marketer who has enormous influence on Vancouver development, said then he thought the stadium should be torn down.

On the other hand, said Vancouver city planner Trish French, tourism and hotel officials were anxious to see it stay because of the benefits it brings them. The stadium, which is home to the BC Lions football team, generated $58 million in economic activity last year.

French said one benefit of PavCo's request is that at least it gives the city a clear idea of what is happening in that area.

The staff report notes that PavCo also says it wants the stadium rehabilitation to be the only public benefit the city gets out of giving density.

That's an unusual request in an era in which Vancouver planners routinely negotiate everything from social housing to film theatres to daycares from developers, in return for giving them what is becoming increasingly valuable space in the downtown.

In a staff report going to council next Thursday, planners recommend pushing through a special process by October to revise the plan for the northeast False Creek sector and figure out exactly what the deal should be.

In a previous study, city planners had tentatively suggested that the land available on the site could support 730,000 square feet of development, with three towers of 14, 16 and 30 storeys.

French said city officials don't want the proposed towers to be strictly residential buildings. Instead, the city has high expectations for the site as a job space, she said.

PavCo chairman David Podmore, who was appointed in April, said he has no firm figure for what it will cost to upgrade and maintain the stadium for the next 30 years.

But he did say the roof, which was meant to last a maximum 25 years, will have to be replaced.

The Crown corporation would also like to upgrade the concession stands and public areas, including the restrooms and the plaza outside.

"With the capital improvements, if we can get everything pulled together, I hope we'll have a really good asset," he said.

The potential deal is already provoking sharp differences of opinion among the councillors who have to decide on it.

Non-Partisan Association Coun. Suzanne Anton, part of the majority on council, said she's wholeheartedly in favour of preserving the stadium and allowing building on the spare land around it to finance that.

"There's a huge environmental argument for not tearing it down," said Anton. As well, there's an economic one, since replacing it would cost perhaps $1 billion, she said.

Anton said there's also an esthetic side benefit.

"The stadium is not one of our most beautiful pieces of architecture," Anton noted tactfully of a building that has been frequently reviled and nicknamed by some the "boiled egg in bondage." She said with development around it, "it has the possibility of making it into a more interesting facade."

But opposition Coun. Raymond Louie said he has problems with the deal, although he doesn't object to giving the provincial government some development rights in order to salvage the stadium.

Louie said it's not enough for the city to get nothing more out of the deal than the stadium as a public benefit.

"I disagree with that. They should get something but it's underutilized land. ... It's inappropriate not to get more [than the stadium rehabilitation]."

He also said it's unfair to allow the stadium to jump the queue ahead of three other major landowners who were all supposed to be part of an official-development-plan review.

GM Place, the Plaza of Nations, and Concord could find that they end up getting something less than what they wanted because BC Place has been allowed to jump in ahead of them, he said.

It will take $290,000 to go through the planning process for BC Place.

PavCo has offered to pay half of that. The other half will come from the city.

[Solar Max]

Hope David doesn't hear about this.

[OrangeShoes99]

Say good bye to tailgating in Vancouver, there will be no where to do it soon. Enjoy it while you can folks.

[hwgill]

Where the hell are we going to be able to park?!?!?!?

[Lion Guy]

Just cuz the dome is staying doesn't necessarily mean the Lions HAVE to play in it for the next 30 years.

[TheLionKing]

Just cuz the dome is staying doesn't necessarily mean the Lions HAVE to play in it for the next 30 years.

That may well be true but there are no plans at present to build a new stadium capable of accommodating the Lions.

[Rammer]

Just cuz the dome is staying doesn't necessarily mean the Lions HAVE to play in it for the next 30 years.

That may well be true but there are no plans at present to build a new stadium capable of accommodating the Lions.

If the Dome is kept for thirty years, you can bet that there won't be any "new" stadium that will get past city council, considering the cost.

[Rammer]

Hope David doesn't hear about this.

I have been waiting for Mr "Outdoor" stadium guys response.... :lol:

I can see OS99's regrets about any TG'ing, but I don't think that is high priority in the cities future planning, unfortunately. On the other hand, without the occupation of that land for highrise buildings, there isn't a long term plan for BC Place. So unless Braley (or another owner) want to finance a facility with enough parking for TG'ing in like Calgary, I don't see TG'iong lasting the way we are accustomed to, more like the TG Party the Lions attempt to pass off.

[No Ka Oi]

It's odd the Corporation had no problem coming up with the $160M to build the stadium in 1982. But now they must be allowed to build three condominium towers on the site or they can't afford to fix the roof and will tear down the stadium? Didn't the province just annouce $15 Billion in transit projects?

[Solar Max]

It's odd the Corporation had no problem coming up with the $160M to build the stadium in 1982. But now they must be allowed to build three condominium towers on the site or they can't afford to fix the roof and will tear down the stadium? Didn't the province just annouce $15 Billion in transit projects?

Times were different, with the Social Credit government gearing up for Expo 86, and BC Place being a jewel to be showcased to the world. The land had basically been reclaimed from the rail yards, and the land wasn't nearly as valuable as it would be even 10 years afterward.

Now, fiscal strings are much tighter than they were then.

[David]

Hope David doesn't hear about this.

I have been waiting for Mr "Outdoor" stadium guys response.... :lol:

Actually, I heard it first thing this morning on NEWS1130 before this was posted. And really, what's left to say? Short of installing a retractable roof on B.C. Place - which at this point is as likely as seeing a moustache on the Mona Lisa, I think it's a big mistake that will haunt the club when these 'feel good' times of the Ackles-Buono regime pass (and that's not being pessimistic; every club's fortunes go in cycles). However, if that's the path that City Government and Pavco take, there's precious little I can do about it.

If we're resigned to another 30 years in a dome and, God willing, the Lions are still around, let's hope they have the good sense to:

a) make the setting more intimate (as even on a good night, the Lions play in front of more empty seats than most clubs draw)
b) improve the acoustics
c) bring the concessions up to 21st century standards
d) install some type of air-conditioning system for the summer months (although, as B.C. Place is an air-supported structure powered by fans, I'm not sure that an AC system could be installed).

DH 8)

[MacNews]

I don't think that is high priority in the cities future planning, unfortunately.

There was a Sun feature a couple months back on the decline of surface parking in the city. They quoted the Parking Lot Czar as saying that surface parking lots were 'ugly' and that the priority would be underground parking, if we're lucky.

Didn't the province just annouce $15 Billion in transit projects?

Yes but buses buy more votes than stadiums, IIRC.

[Sir Purrcival]

I guess I don't see BC Place as being in as bad a shape as it is sometimes suggested. I'm sure that the roof would need replacing for another 30 and it would sure be nice if they could ditch the ugly, hard blue seats and put something more like GM place in there (lower bowl at least). I would move the replay screen to the back centre of the upper deck and add another on the other side. and I would also see about trying to add some more obvious restaurant/lounge type capacities where people can actually sit down, have their beer and burger and be comfortable. Not just sure where they would do that but I guess it would make sense to put something like that somewhere that tends to have the largest crowds at any given event. Agree totally about the acoustics. Surely there is something that could be done about that too. Some sound absorbing panels would probably help here and there. And maybe for the ultimate, perhaps some conveyers going up and down along the ramps. Don't know about the logistics about that but it would tend to move people along more smartly that the mindless masses who often halt to talk on the cell phone or stand around in the middle of the ramp, waiting for someone while people try to navigate around them.
Make some of those changes, and I think that BC Place is quite serviceable for a while yet to come. At the end of that, I"m pretty sure that Football will not be in the Downtown core. The land will be considered just too valuable and I have always argued that no matter how populated, the downtown core gets, it isn't ever gonna be close to what the population is going to be farther out. Eventually, it is gonna be East Van, the Valley, or maybe even Richmond.

[Blue In BC]

I guess I don't see BC Place as being in as bad a shape as it is sometimes suggested. I'm sure that the roof would need replacing for another 30 and it would sure be nice if they could ditch the ugly, hard blue seats and put something more like GM place in there (lower bowl at least). I would move the replay screen to the back centre of the upper deck and add another on the other side. and I would also see about trying to add some more obvious restaurant/lounge type capacities where people can actually sit down, have their beer and burger and be comfortable. Not just sure where they would do that but I guess it would make sense to put something like that somewhere that tends to have the largest crowds at any given event. Agree totally about the acoustics. Surely there is something that could be done about that too. Some sound absorbing panels would probably help here and there. And maybe for the ultimate, perhaps some conveyers going up and down along the ramps. Don't know about the logistics about that but it would tend to move people along more smartly that the mindless masses who often halt to talk on the cell phone or stand around in the middle of the ramp, waiting for someone while people try to navigate around them.
Make some of those changes, and I think that BC Place is quite serviceable for a while yet to come. At the end of that, I"m pretty sure that Football will not be in the Downtown core. The land will be considered just too valuable and I have always argued that no matter how populated, the downtown core gets, it isn't ever gonna be close to what the population is going to be farther out. Eventually, it is gonna be East Van, the Valley, or maybe even Richmond.

Re-doing the food fair downstairs is a good idea and they could generally provide better concession food on levels 2 & 4.

I don't know if I like the idea of the replay screens at mid field. It might be distracting from a peripheral vision point of view. Do any stadiums put the replay screens at mid field?

The acoustics could certainly be improved and I think something could be done with the seats. The seats would be an expensive change, but I think if they were more comfortable and a little bigger, it might please the fans.

[Wally!]

Aren't new seats part of the Olympic upgrades?