Gold Cup Semi-final Canada vs USA

[Rammer]

Well the game is at the half and

ABBC3_SPOILER_SHOW

it isn't looking good for Canada here, as the US made a nice goal around the 40 minute mark and then got a penalty shot just at the end of halftime, which made it USA 2, Canada 0. Work is out for the Canadian side to equal this in the final 45 minutes, but if I ever believe in it being difficult to hold a two goal lead, this is the time I want it to show up

. Go Canada go!

[Robbie]

Talk about being a victim of poor officiating. Canada had the tying goal waived off on a very disputed offside call. :x

[AC/DC Rocks]

No kidding
Looks like the Cdn. player wasn't off side but even if he was as soon as the U.S. player heads the ball back the play should continue on side.

What nationality was this ref

[MacNews]

Soccer?

[pacific]

Yes

[Canuck_4_Life]

They got screwed.

Both Canadian players were onside, before delivery of the cross, and after the ball was played back. I'm not soccer rules aficionado, but if the ball is played back by the defending team, aren't all attacking players behind him onside?

[LFITQ]

Here is a pretty good hilight reel of the match.

[youtube][/youtube]

One thing has always bothered me about Soccer (ok more than one thing but this one is appropriate now ), that is the awarding of penalty shots. Sometimes, yes I agree they are warranted, but I don't like how a really bad take down, such as the one on De Guzman, is basically sloughed off and the one on Beasley becomes the difference maker. IMHO, the De Guzman one is much worse than the Beasely one, but with Beasley's there is a penalty shot, all because of WHERE it happens, not based on the severity of the action.

I know when I was playing (from 4 years of age up through College) I used that rule to my advantage especially on the wing. Not that I agreed with it, but that I know it was there and as such I took more liberties on opposition players in "neutral" zone than I did inside the 18. Worse case I would get red carded and we would have to play a man down, best case I gave them a free kick or even got away with it.

As for the final goal by Canada, yep, once the defender touches it and knocks it back it can't be offside. That was a severely blown call. I hope CSA decides to do the right thing and protest the match. It's kinda sad, how much $$ gets pumped into CSA and how many people in Canada play soccer, yet we don't have the success for the amount of effort. I'm pretty cynical with regards to soccer organizations now a days, but I have a firm belief that so long as kids and parents keep spending the $$, nothing will really ever develop. Why should CSA spend any money on international success? They make a good amount of $ right now without having to make the effort. Why incur costs?

[Toppy Vann]

You got that right on the severity issue. Soccer is always inconsistent on plays like the brutal tackle on De Guzman. The ref in his discretion in soccer could give a yellow and easily a red card on that play. My view- give guys who tackle like that a red card and call it consistently and you will eliminate that stuff from the game. I played and coached soccer up to senior levels and held my team accountable for not making tackles like that as you note - you can take a card. Players can play hard and to me the best do that and avoid plays that lead to cards.

Same with take downs in the penalty area leading to spot shots. My view - make the player play it out. I have seen more guys miss open nets from a yard off the goal line to know that if you are beat, make the guy make the play rather than get a red card. I want players who make mistakes that lead to goals stay on the park and work to get goals back rather than suicide out of the game by being beat and getting red carded. I don't tolerate that type of play.

That offside call to me on the replay was a brutal call. The US player is heading the ball back towards his GK and it goes off a defender to a Canadian player who is fine where he is - not sure if he was even or a bit behind but that is not offside. There are moments when the arrogance of referees in soccer leads to this stuff rather than him calmly speaking to the assistant referee and asking him his view of the play and why he raised the flag and then allowing the goal to stand.

It looks from the highlights that Canada (unusual for them) tried to play soccer and bring the ball up from the back with some midfield play rather than the text book view of the game for not great teams and that is to get the ball into the attacking third of the field regardless of how you do it as they have the stats to show that this is good.

[lion24]

My favorite part of soccer is the players going down as if they had been shot and then getting back in the play a minute later as if nothing happened :lol: :lol:

[Rammer]

I missed the offside call portion of the game, as I had my sons baseball game to attend. Sounds like Canada got another raw deal on international play. Does this really surprise you, Canada is the international whipping boy on play calling, do you ever recall another country that generally is the underdog and still gets beat up on by refs/judges like we do? We must wear a sign that says stick us with a call, we will bend over ourselves justifying it, can you imagine if that call had been against the US in a role reversal? Didn't think so.

[Rammer]

Having viewed the goal in question now (thanks for the video LFitQ), I have to say that on the original pass forward by Canada both strikers were onside.Now once the ball was headed, I can see him putting the flag up had he thought it was a Canadian player making that headed pass. Understandable since several players were lined up at the offside mark and it may have been difficult to determine which teams player headed the ball from his vantage point, however the ref should be able to over rule that given that he was in the middle of the field. IMHO, the ref should have went over to the linesman and determined when he decided the play was offside, as the Canadian player struck the ball forward, or when the ball was headed off that kick. If the linesman decided that the play was offside from the Canadian pass forward, then it is a plain blown call, but had it been called from the head ball, well then the ref blew the call outright. Sad way for the game to end, and it ruined my 2 goal up come from behind comment, sigh.

[Toppy Vann]

This is a post from a respected soccer guy on another board. He makes very good points here:

"Jobbed! Absolutely jobbed!

There have been lots of controversy swirling throughout the tournament that the only way sponsors and TV people are gonna get their money's worth from this tournament is if they get a US/Mexico final.

How can CONCACAF justify having a Mexican referee for this semi with Mexico in the other semi? How does US Soccer allow this to happen without bitterly protesting about it? They must have felt one of three ways:

(a) way over confident and arrogant (not an American!)
(b) knew they would be protected in getting there
(c) both a and b

Bocanegra should have been sent off for that tackle without a doubt. I still can't believe that a latin American referee, 10 feet away, doesn't throw him out? They hate that kind of rough s$%^! He makes that call, they game turns on it head and we kick the crap out of them. Are you telling me if that was Donavan going ass over tea kettle like that that Hastings wouldn't have been thrown out?

Canada could of had a PK when Onyewu interfered with Gerba on the collision with Keller in the first half and also when he tripped up Gerba in the second.

What goes around - comes around! We'll beat them in the final rounds of World Cup qualifying. It won't knock them out but it will knock us in. Maybe this is what we need to get our asses in gear and focus our attention on nailing down a spot."

[Toppy Vann]

Having viewed the goal in question now (thanks for the video LFitQ), I have to say that on the original pass forward by Canada both strikers were onside.Now once the ball was headed, I can see him putting the flag up had he thought it was a Canadian player making that headed pass. Understandable since several players were lined up at the offside mark and it may have been difficult to determine which teams player headed the ball from his vantage point, however the ref should be able to over rule that given that he was in the middle of the field. IMHO, the ref should have went over to the linesman and determined when he decided the play was offside, as the Canadian player struck the ball forward, or when the ball was headed off that kick. If the linesman decided that the play was offside from the Canadian pass forward, then it is a plain blown call, but had it been called from the head ball, well then the ref blew the call outright. Sad way for the game to end, and it ruined my 2 goal up come from behind comment, sigh.

There is a lesson here for all soccer players at all ages and especially at the international level in these regional tournaments where, at times, funny things happen like this. DON'T SIT IN AN OFFSIDE POSITION EVEN IF YOU ARE JUSTIFIED BY THE RULES - you are just begging to get it called against you. Step back to the ball and turn to make the run - that will beats the opponent and you don't get shafted like Canada did.

I gather also that the ref in this game has had problems with Canada before but not sure what/when.

[Rammer]

Having viewed the goal in question now (thanks for the video LFitQ), I have to say that on the original pass forward by Canada both strikers were onside.Now once the ball was headed, I can see him putting the flag up had he thought it was a Canadian player making that headed pass. Understandable since several players were lined up at the offside mark and it may have been difficult to determine which teams player headed the ball from his vantage point, however the ref should be able to over rule that given that he was in the middle of the field. IMHO, the ref should have went over to the linesman and determined when he decided the play was offside, as the Canadian player struck the ball forward, or when the ball was headed off that kick. If the linesman decided that the play was offside from the Canadian pass forward, then it is a plain blown call, but had it been called from the head ball, well then the ref blew the call outright. Sad way for the game to end, and it ruined my 2 goal up come from behind comment, sigh.

There is a lesson here for all soccer players at all ages and especially at the international level in these regional tournaments where, at times, funny things happen like this. DON'T SIT IN AN OFFSIDE POSITION EVEN IF YOU ARE JUSTIFIED BY THE RULES - you are just begging to get it called against you. Step back to the ball and turn to make the run - that will beats the opponent and you don't get shafted like Canada did.

I gather also that the ref in this game has had problems with Canada before but not sure what/when.

Well that would be interesting discussion on the ref having a history with Canada. Would not Canada have had an opportunity to challenge the choice for referee? If so and they didn't then Soccer Canada can wear this loss on their shoulders and may as well not complain about the DQ'd goal.

[LFITQ]

Found some interesting tidbits on the Canoe Slam site article:

Canadian players and substitutes complained bitterly after the match. At one point, former Canadian Soccer Association chief operating officer Kevan Pipe - who is running the Chicago venue for CONCACAF - stepped in front of Canadian manager Morgan Quarry as he harangued the officials. Pipe was fired by the CSA last November.

and on the previous problems with that ref which TV alluded to:

It's not the first time Canada has been at odds with Archundia or members of his officiating staff. The referee called two late fouls against Canada in a World Cup qualifier with Honduras on Sept. 4, 2004. Archundia awarded Honduras a late penalty kick which led to the game-tying goal. Then a potential go-ahead goal by Canadian forward Olivier Occean was negated by a second foul and the game ended 1-1. Canadian defender Mark Watson disputed both calls at the time.

You can read the full article here