About our defence - Wally is sounding like the Lions DC

[WestCoastJoe]

Listen to the insights from coaches like Milanovich (quite long Q and A on their loss to Ham on TSN). His comments identify clearly what he thinks are issues and his analyses of each facet and the play of QBs, etc sums up to what they will focus on. Milanovich is pretty insightful and just doesn't think his team gave Hamilton a game. His message but within it the specifics that made the difference in the score. Also, going in the game he was quoted on the playing styles of the QBs and it was clear that he was aware of what Collaros would be asked to do by Hamilton

Kent Austin - equally insightful and clear not only on his team but going into the game on what he thought the Argos were trying to do with Trevor Harris.

Agreed, Toppy. You mention two outstanding coaches, IMO.

I really enjoy listening to the comments of Milanovich. He gives detailed, thoughtful answers.

Austin tries to put on a friendly face, but it seems to me he has disdain for the media. LOL But he is one sharp coach, IMO.

Can we compete with those guys? Well, IMO, it partially depends on how much Wally is willing to let go of the reins. He still seems to have the heart and mind of Mark Washington in his back pocket. Time for him to let go completely, it seems to me.

He is defending our defensive system. No surprise. It is his system. If we continue to get steam rolled by various offences it will be revealing to hear his rationalizations. Execute.

[B.C.FAN]

Adam Bighill was on TSN 1040 in the noon hour today (around 12:10 I believe) with guest hosts Brook Ward and Giulio Caravatta. Bighill said he's been lobbying the coaching staff since he got here to allow him to play safety and cover receivers, and he is happy to have been given that expanded role this year. He said he prefers to be in the box, but dropping back as a safety in passing situations eliminates a personnel change that would be a "tell" for an opposing team, and thus disguises the defence. Bighill said the biggest issue for the defence this season has been the learning curve of the new starters. He said rookies are starting to get more comfortable and confident in their roles and eliminating mistakes. He said they would play well for four or five plays, then have four or five straight breakdowns. The Lions have five new starters on defence, including three raw rookies, so there is some validity to his points. He seems quite confident that talent and scheme are not the issues. The audio is well worth a listen for anyone concerned about the defence.

[WestCoastJoe]

Adam Bighill was on TSN 1040 in the noon hour today (around 12:10 I believe) with guest hosts Brook Ward and Giulio Caravatta. Bighill said he's been lobbying the coaching staff since he got here to allow him to play safety and cover receivers, and he is happy to have been given that expanded role this year. He said he prefers to be in the box, but dropping back as a safety in passing situations eliminates a personnel change that would be a "tell" for an opposing team, and thus disguises the defence. Bighill said the biggest issue for the defence this season has been the learning curve of the new starters. He said rookies are starting to get more comfortable and confident in their roles and eliminating mistakes. He said they would play well for four or five plays, then have four or five straight breakdowns. The Lions have five new starters on defence, including three raw rookies, so there is some validity to his points. He seems quite confident that talent and scheme are not the issues. The audio is well worth a listen for anyone concerned about the defence.

I can't bring myself to listen to it, BCF.

Biggie is obviously still a believer. And, in his position, one has to be. (To me, it seems like: "Drink this Kool-Aid.")

7 games of tape. The D looks horrible, for all the reasons mentioned.

I am subscribing to the view of MLF. Mark W cheats with his D. He puts more guys in coverage than teams expected, early last year. The teams have caught on. They study the tape. They see the soft zone. Get your QB to make his reads, and take your pick of soft spots.

Can Mark W turn this around? Big turnaround vs the Eskimos? Stranger things have happened. But it looks like a duck ...

If we see some results on the field, that changes things. Dunno if Nichols is vulnerable to a zone.

[sj-roc]

Puff pieces like this one from the league's own staffers can often be "share the wealth"-minded — as the mention of, count 'em, three players from winless Ssk clearly shows. But BC isn't even in the conversation, except to specify the location of last year's Grey Cup. Heck, they were SO determined to leave us out of it that in listing the choices for best shutdown DB, the fan poll question at the end even resorted to using Fred Bennett's name twice.

http://cfl.ca/article/best-in-the-leagu ... hutdown-db

Fan Poll
Who is the best shutdown defensive back in the league?

1) Brandon Smith 11%
2) Patrick Watkins 25%
3) Jerald Brown 4%
4) Billy Parker 2%
5) Fred Bennett 1%
6) Terrell Maze 31%
7) Tyron Brackenridge 11%
8) Fred Bennett 1%
9) Other 13%

Total Votes : 527

[DanoT]

Puff pieces like this one from the league's own staffers can often be "share the wealth"-minded — as the mention of, count 'em, three players from winless Ssk clearly shows. But BC isn't even in the conversation, except to specify the location of last year's Grey Cup. Heck, they were SO determined to leave us out of it that in listing the choices for best shutdown DB, the fan poll question at the end even resorted to using Fred Bennett's name twice.

http://cfl.ca/article/best-in-the-leagu ... hutdown-db

Fan Poll
Who is the best shutdown defensive back in the league?

1) Brandon Smith 11%
2) Patrick Watkins 25%
3) Jerald Brown 4%
4) Billy Parker 2%
5) Fred Bennett 1%
6) Terrell Maze 31%
7) Tyron Brackenridge 11%
8) Fred Bennett 1%
9) Other 13%

Total Votes : 527

With a D that is the worst in just about every measurable category, why would you expect a Lion to be on the list?

[sj-roc]

Puff pieces like this one from the league's own staffers can often be "share the wealth"-minded — as the mention of, count 'em, three players from winless Ssk clearly shows. But BC isn't even in the conversation, except to specify the location of last year's Grey Cup. Heck, they were SO determined to leave us out of it that in listing the choices for best shutdown DB, the fan poll question at the end even resorted to using Fred Bennett's name twice.

http://cfl.ca/article/best-in-the-leagu ... hutdown-db

Fan Poll
Who is the best shutdown defensive back in the league?

1) Brandon Smith 11%
2) Patrick Watkins 25%
3) Jerald Brown 4%
4) Billy Parker 2%
5) Fred Bennett 1%
6) Terrell Maze 31%
7) Tyron Brackenridge 11%
8) Fred Bennett 1%
9) Other 13%

Total Votes : 527

With a D that is the worst in just about every measurable category, why would you expect a Lion to be on the list?

Um, I didn't say I did. In fact I was presenting this as an indictment with the FB double-namecheck as the punch line.

[WestCoastJoe]

This is going to be an interesting matchup in terms of defensive styles.

I didn`t write KEYS TO THE GAME for this match because the two threads often tend to have some of the same comments and felt this thread would suffice.

Its interesting to see how both the Eskimo`s fate`s on defence changed from 2013 to today as both teams hired new coaches who would lead their respective defenses.

When Chris Jones took over in Edmonton and began coordinating Edmonton`s defense they had been last in allowing the most rushing yds. per game (145.7 yds. rushing) last in average gain per catch (8.7 yds.) and 6th in average yds. of offence against, giving up an average of 368 yds. of offence per game.

Now the Eskimos only give up 71.6 yds of rushing per game (2nd), 6.2 yds. per catch (1st) and only 279 average yds. of offence per game (1st).

When Mark Washington took over our B.C. defence from Rich Stubler, he not only inherited a record breaking defense that had led 12 defensive categories in 2012 but he also inherited an excellent defence from 2013, that only gave up 94.4 yds. rushing per game(2nd) only gave up 7. 3 yds. per catch (1st) and 318 yds. of offence (2nd)

Its not taken very long for Mark Washington to also have a profound impact on a defence, just as Chris Jones has in Edmonton but for us its in a different direction. Our defence gives up 139 yds. rushing per game (last), 9.4 yds.per catch (last), and a whopping 424.6 average yds. of offence per game (last)

It hasn`t taken very long to have our defense go from championship calibre to a disgrace, just as it hasn`t taken very long for Edmonton`s defence to go from mediocre to outstanding.

To win this game, our defense has to play a heck of a lot better than it has and Mark Washington needs to really take a look at what he has done to our defense in his short tenure and figure a way to improve it. The trend is not our friend in Mark Washington leading our defence.

Copying this over here from the Esks GDT.

Well said, Blitz.

[WestCoastJoe]

Wally may not be directly controlling Mark Washington`s defensive decisions but I believe he has had tremendous influence on Washington as a coach, in terms of philosophy and scheme, both directly and indirectly.

When you look at our last four defensive coordinators in terms of philosophy and style -Dave Ritchie, Mike Benevedes, Rich Stubler, and Mark Washington, Ritchie and Stubler were very different in style but both were innovative on defence. Ritchie attacked an offence with pressure most of the time, using zone blitzes but he also used multiple formations and changed up constantly. Stubler focused more on disguising coverages and creating false reads. Both came from the outside.

Mike Benevedes and Mark Washington were Buono hires as defensive coordinators. Both have very, very similar styles of playing straight up zone defense and both have preferred to use a straight up 4 man pass rush with a rotation on the defensive line as their main way of getting pressure on the quarterback. Buono had a tremendous influence on Benevedes. When Benevedes took over our defense from Ritchie, instead of adopting Ritchie`s philosophy and style, instead he ran a Buono style of defense. Washington, when taking over from Stubler, also did not adopt Stubler`s defensive philosophy and style but instead adopted more of a Benevedes or Buono style - both are similar so take your pick.

While Buono may not `control` Washington I believe his influence is profound, in terms of philosophy and scheme. Whether that is direct influence or indirect influence is hard to determine. But Buono, who may have said that he would not directly interfere with the coaching this season, will still have influence and want to exert some type of control. It's who he is. Washington and McMann are here or remain here, in part, for that reason. They are his ears.

Heck, if Wally, as a GM is still the person fining for dead ball fouls, always the Head Coach`s domain, its not like he has let go.

I`m just relieved that I was against the decision to let Stubler go and hire Washington as our DC at the time. This defense is embarrassing right now and its a heck of a lot more than a player personnel problem or execution problems. That much is more than obvious.

And this.

[Toppy Vann]

I get it the coaching philosophy and tactics influence of the Wally and it might explain why MB learned zilch from Dave Ritchie - it was if Ritchie never darkened BC 's door when MB took over as the Lion DC.

When MW refused to head east for a potential job interview IIRC I was thinking what a dummy - you always interview if you're invited as it is a learning process and you gain experience.

In the end though - like season end - it will be the HC judging and if the Lions season isn't better then Tedford no doubt will make coaching changes.

He will certainly by then have seen the level of CFL coaching on all other teams and it's been getting better. Even Tom Higgins seems a better coach since he got out of his league duties in charge of officiating.

I'm just not sure that JT has yet to put a philosophy in place that will define his overall team other than we'll be uptempo and that hasn't worked effectively for long stretches.

[MexicoLionFan]

Adam Bighill was on TSN 1040 in the noon hour today (around 12:10 I believe) with guest hosts Brook Ward and Giulio Caravatta. Bighill said he's been lobbying the coaching staff since he got here to allow him to play safety and cover receivers, and he is happy to have been given that expanded role this year. He said he prefers to be in the box, but dropping back as a safety in passing situations eliminates a personnel change that would be a "tell" for an opposing team, and thus disguises the defence. Bighill said the biggest issue for the defence this season has been the learning curve of the new starters. He said rookies are starting to get more comfortable and confident in their roles and eliminating mistakes. He said they would play well for four or five plays, then have four or five straight breakdowns. The Lions have five new starters on defence, including three raw rookies, so there is some validity to his points. He seems quite confident that talent and scheme are not the issues. The audio is well worth a listen for anyone concerned about the defence.

Thanks for sharing this BCFAN, but its almost unbelievable to read. How Bighill, a road paver, could defend this defence is beyond me. If Dick Butkus had the physical abilities to drop back into pass coverage and take on more than just a TE, would any DC IN THEIR RIGHT MIND do this????? Why would ANY DC take Adam Bighill and Sol E. so far away from the opposition's backfield. He is a disgrace as a DC because with the GENERATIONAL talents that he possesses on his defence, he should have designed a defence that would have aimed at getting Biggy and Sol to LIVE in the opposition's backfield! He should have done everything he could to proliferate the general belief around the CFL that Elimimian is a head hunter and train wrecker. Very little "talent" likes to get hit, this is why historically Defences have held the advantage over offences. Washington in his short tenure here has created a culture of POWDER PUFFS on defence and it literally makes me sick to watch, whether it is effective or not. That is why last season BEFORE the half way point in the season I was calling out Washington's D...it's simply WRONG! First, if your system is devised on a cheat, then it can be broken down and exposed, and second, with all the built in advantages and biases for the offence in the CFL game Defences MUST take the aggressive and attack so that offences, ESPECIALLY QBs, don't get comfortable. When that happens eyes SEE MORE, the brain is able to PROCESS MORE of the information it is witnessing. But when you have Rick Klassen mauling his way up the middle, breaking down your pocket, with Nick Hebeler and Quick Parker coming off the edge, a QB stops THINKING and starts PANICKING, and how often do we make sound decisions while in this frame of mind?

And for fans of the game, especially Season Ticket holders, its just a BORING style of play, as is the spread offence now that it has been exposed. 2 and outs on Offence, and Defences that allow the opposition to continually drive the football downfield is BORING to watch and disheartening. TURNOVERS should be one of the major goals of any Defence, it isn't even in the lexicon of Mark Washington. This trend in BC started with Mike Benevides as DC, was continued with Stubler's reign, and has essentially now disappeared with Mark Washington. What a DISGRACE, the Lions have almost always been known as a Team Defence that pressures the QB, plays aggressive coverage and ballhawks. We are NONE of these things under Washington. Even more than just Wins and Losses, FANS WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED...just think back to the glorious season with Doug Flutie...rookies flying around everywhere, making lots of mistakes, but also making lots of big plays. We made the playoffs and our weakness on Defence finally caught up to us, but in a culture of fan paralysis in BC, Vancouverites suddenly started FLOCKING to BCPlace to watch that incredibly exciting team...win or lose, those fans were never robbed a penny of their time and money! But this SH$T under Benevides and Washington is as big a scam and ripoff as derivatives are!!! Even watching the games from Mexico I feel like I am being ripped off...and I don't even know how I made through last season, which was more boring than listening to the Nightly News try and sell to us that Terrorists are the cause of all our problems and the reason why our civil liberties need to be stripped away! Watching MW's Defence is akin to having one's senses slowed ripped away from oneself, until all that is left is a mass of nothingness, just a subtle awareness that something is VERY WRONG!

Defence is meant to be played and coached by PIRATES, Marauders that won't stop until they have conquered everything in their sight, not "manipulated" by a collection of male ballerinas!!!

[WestCoastJoe]

What MLF said

[TheLionKing]

100% agreement MexicoLionFan

[MexicoLionFan]

Thanks guys.

[WestCoastJoe]

Five men in the box on an Eskimo 2nd down conversion. 4 DL and Sollie. The other guys near the LOS are in pass coverage assignments. Pretty much a 4-1 Defence. Or 4-1-7. Sollie reacting, in his assignment, 5 yards off the LOS, not really attacking. Biggie not attacking.

Bighill backpedaling to join Chris R (back much deeper, out of the picture).

[WestCoastJoe]

2nd and 10. Biggie backpedaling. Chris R deeper. Pretty much a 4-1 lineup again, Johnson moving to his cover assignment.

The Esks find a huge soft spot in the middle of the zone, but the receiver drops the ball.

Biggie and Chris R unable to get near the receiver although they have deep middle zone.