2016 U.S. Presidential Election Thread
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Trump doing much better than I thought he would. Currently leading in Florida
- Sir Purrcival
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Yep. As I write this, it is almost a forgone conclusion that there will be a President Trump. While I had no love for the Clintons, this result just about guts me because of what it says about American culture. It would seem that Americans would much rather put a loud mouthed, sexist racist individual in charge of their country over a corrupt but otherwise qualified individual. This guy is in no way qualified to be in charge of the most powerful country in the world. The only bright side to this is that it means that the Clinton legacy is finally and completely done. Unfortunately, we are now going to be neighbours with a tyrant and somehow have to try and do business with said tyrant.Robbie wrote:Well today is the big day in America. Will you be watching the election closely?
I can see pretty much where this is going to go. Trump is going to take the position if they don't get some of the concessions that they are going to be wanting that are favourable to them, NAFTA will be done. Trade barriers will go up and our economy is going to take a huge hit.
I feel nothing but fear at the prospect of a Trump Whitehouse. I can't see how he and Trudeau are going to get along in any fashion. It is going to be Nixon and Pierre Elliot all over again. The markets are already tumbling.
I did not think that Trump would be able to unite the right in this way. I was horribly wrong. I think Michael Moore said it best when he suggests that the establishment has created Donald Trump and that the self-serving, deceitful ways of Wash, DC has created a climate ripe for Trump to flourish. I wonder if Bernie Sanders is saying tonight, "Serves the DNC right".
I can only imagine how historians of the future are going to describe the impact of this election.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
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This is friggin unbelievable. The financial markets have fallen 600 points.
- Sir Purrcival
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Just like Brexit, there was an immediate fallout from this election. Whether it stays this bad will depend entirely on what Trump does in the next 3 months. If he starts talking about tearing up NAFTA, putting up trade barriers etc, well, I think the American people (particularly Trump supporters) are going to get a nasty shock. But no matter how you slice it, tough times are ahead for Canada. Our economy is tied up with the US economy and as our biggest trading partner, we are going to be feeling the bite of US protectionism really hard. What the American rank and file haven't woken up to yet is that it is going to bite them hard as well. The US populace (about half of it anyway) wanted to stick a finger in the eye of the establishment. Well they have succeeded. Now we all get to reap the repercussions. And how embarrassing for Hillary Clinton. Imagine after all those years of political life, you get to be the one who lost to Donald Trump. The election where reason and good sense gave way to lies, deceptions, half truths, name calling and character assassination. It has taken 8 years to rebound from the George W. era. I can only imagine how long it will take to recover from the Donald Trump era.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
- WestCoastJoe
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Trump just pulled off one of the greatest con jobs ever. People bought it.
Best hope is that he will show that most of his ideas were just empty sales pitches.
No wall.
No mass deportations.
No F U to the rest of the world.
No tax breaks for the rich. LOL OK, that will happen.
If grown people have anxiety about him being president, imagine the nightmares of minority children.
There is a very old saying: people get the government they deserve. Unfortunately POTUS affects the entire world.
Trump for Life. For the good of the nation.
His presidency will be a severe test of the overall health of the USA. Economically. Socially. As a democracy. As a checkup on the values of the people.
......
And Putin just laughs and laughs and laughs. One thing con men are vulnerable to is another con man. Putin can play Trump like a violin. One is real world, as in KGB. The other is a reality TV star, albeit a nasty, mean-spirited bully.
.......
The USA --> Leaders of the Free World. God help us.
Amongst the worst of it is the hatred and intolerance. Lock her up. JewSA. Minorities and disabled ... no room for you. Women? Objects. Horrifying that this is what they voted for. Have we seen the real Trump? Yes, although he changes cloaks frequently, and disguises himself.
What people represent Trump? Bannon. Giuliani. Christie. Gingrich. Bobby Knight. Ted Nugent.
Best hope is that he will show that most of his ideas were just empty sales pitches.
No wall.
No mass deportations.
No F U to the rest of the world.
No tax breaks for the rich. LOL OK, that will happen.
If grown people have anxiety about him being president, imagine the nightmares of minority children.
There is a very old saying: people get the government they deserve. Unfortunately POTUS affects the entire world.
Trump for Life. For the good of the nation.
His presidency will be a severe test of the overall health of the USA. Economically. Socially. As a democracy. As a checkup on the values of the people.
......
And Putin just laughs and laughs and laughs. One thing con men are vulnerable to is another con man. Putin can play Trump like a violin. One is real world, as in KGB. The other is a reality TV star, albeit a nasty, mean-spirited bully.
.......
The USA --> Leaders of the Free World. God help us.
Amongst the worst of it is the hatred and intolerance. Lock her up. JewSA. Minorities and disabled ... no room for you. Women? Objects. Horrifying that this is what they voted for. Have we seen the real Trump? Yes, although he changes cloaks frequently, and disguises himself.
What people represent Trump? Bannon. Giuliani. Christie. Gingrich. Bobby Knight. Ted Nugent.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
- Sir Purrcival
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It's going to be a test of our Gov. and country as well. I tend to believe that one of the first places he is going to turn his covetous eye to is us. Here is a country that is pretty much joined at the hip economically. He will be thinking that we can't afford to say no. And he may well be right. Renegotiate NAFTA or else. Softwood lumber? No new deal unless it fits our need. And then there are the social ramifications. US Supreme Court? Oh Oh, Roe v. Wade overturned? 20 years of ultra conservative rulings at least. How about gay marriage? That one could be out there as well. This man despite his consoling words of acceptance really gives little hope that he is going to do anything except that which will benefit him. Obama care. That is going to disappear. How many millions are going to be without healthcare again in that country? Environment? Who needs it. Open up the coal mines, fire up those burners, frack until you can frack no more.
All I can say is I hope the hangover of buyers remorse is an absolute doozy. I can only feel pity for the women who were the subject of his mistreatment. The country (their country) has basically just said to them that they don't care if this man abused them. The stuff that outraged so many about Bill Clinton has just been repeated only now since it benefits their political point of view, it is okay.
This result is so abhorrent on so many levels, I can't even begin to fathom it. It is something I wish I hadn't been around to see.
At least Vancouver might get some extra money from the foreign buyer property tax. I do think that what some have said in jest about leaving the US has become suddenly much more real. It may not be to here but some might just well say Eff it and leave, taking with them their skills, their money and their intellects.
All I can say is I hope the hangover of buyers remorse is an absolute doozy. I can only feel pity for the women who were the subject of his mistreatment. The country (their country) has basically just said to them that they don't care if this man abused them. The stuff that outraged so many about Bill Clinton has just been repeated only now since it benefits their political point of view, it is okay.
This result is so abhorrent on so many levels, I can't even begin to fathom it. It is something I wish I hadn't been around to see.
At least Vancouver might get some extra money from the foreign buyer property tax. I do think that what some have said in jest about leaving the US has become suddenly much more real. It may not be to here but some might just well say Eff it and leave, taking with them their skills, their money and their intellects.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
- WestCoastJoe
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The Donald. The President.
What his supporters want from him ...
The Wall, between the USA and Mexico, paid for by Mexico. LOL Wildly impractical, but a selling point with his constituents.
"Lock her up." It will not happen. It opens up himself to charges.
Muslim ban. In some form, quite possible.
Repeal Obamacare. Kick 20 million people off health insurance? Sure, they are poor and powerless anyway.
Quit NAFTA and TPP. Whatever, trade will continue in some way, shape or form.
.......
IMO, this election will have some of the same effect on the USA as Brexit will on the UK. Diminishment of the USA. The reputation of the USA is already diminished, to the delight of Putin. Risk for the rest of the world? I don't think he is that crazy. Let us hope not.
......
Sadness for this neighbour of the US. The hatred so many feel for Hillary Clinton. The badly flawed character of Donald Trump, the next President of the USA, a man who has never held public office, nor served in the military, a man who has stiffed many workers and contractors. The gullibility of the American voters. The desperation of the American voters. The revealed values of the American voters. Makes me very sad. Triumph of vanity, self-interest, greed, dishonesty, cruelty, judging others as less than oneself, cowardice, bullying, more guns.
Will there be buyer's remorse? Oh yeah. Big time. The poor and working class whites that voted for Donald Trump will probably see their circumstances in life reduced. They will not benefit from a rising economy, or from health care. Will they keep America white? I don't think so. Globalization and movement of people is like a tide that cannot be stopped. Same with Brexit. Will Brexit make the UK more white? Nope.
![:dizzy: :dizzy:](./images/smilies/Dizzy.gif)
What his supporters want from him ...
The Wall, between the USA and Mexico, paid for by Mexico. LOL Wildly impractical, but a selling point with his constituents.
"Lock her up." It will not happen. It opens up himself to charges.
Muslim ban. In some form, quite possible.
Repeal Obamacare. Kick 20 million people off health insurance? Sure, they are poor and powerless anyway.
Quit NAFTA and TPP. Whatever, trade will continue in some way, shape or form.
.......
IMO, this election will have some of the same effect on the USA as Brexit will on the UK. Diminishment of the USA. The reputation of the USA is already diminished, to the delight of Putin. Risk for the rest of the world? I don't think he is that crazy. Let us hope not.
......
Sadness for this neighbour of the US. The hatred so many feel for Hillary Clinton. The badly flawed character of Donald Trump, the next President of the USA, a man who has never held public office, nor served in the military, a man who has stiffed many workers and contractors. The gullibility of the American voters. The desperation of the American voters. The revealed values of the American voters. Makes me very sad. Triumph of vanity, self-interest, greed, dishonesty, cruelty, judging others as less than oneself, cowardice, bullying, more guns.
Will there be buyer's remorse? Oh yeah. Big time. The poor and working class whites that voted for Donald Trump will probably see their circumstances in life reduced. They will not benefit from a rising economy, or from health care. Will they keep America white? I don't think so. Globalization and movement of people is like a tide that cannot be stopped. Same with Brexit. Will Brexit make the UK more white? Nope.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
- Sir Purrcival
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I was thinking about this election today and it slowly began to dawn on me that perhaps we are seeing the prolonged effect of being strongly disliked and targeted almost universally around the world. There was a time in US history where isolationism was a very powerful political force in the USA. It caused their delayed entry into both WWI and WWII. Since that time, the pendulum has swung the other way with the US having their paws in many conflicts, rebellions and regimes since the 1950's. So, close the borders, remove the illegals, ban the immigration of perceived problem groups, withdraw support for Nato, put up trade barriers. Sounds like building a wall doesn't it. That might have some positive aspects to it. If the Americans were to withdraw more into themselves, then the rest of us would have to figure out how to make do without them. Their track record of meddling in foreign affairs of other nations has hardly been stellar. I have long argued that Canada was too dependent on the US. Perhaps it is time that we resolve to be less dependent on them as a market, as a defender of our sovereignty, as a good neighbour. It might mean some belt tightening on our part but being less tied to what is apparently a deeply divided nation with a gun fetish might not be such a bad thing.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
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I'm feeling the same depression at Trump's election as all of you. The Democrats badly misread the current composition and mood of the country, and, as a result, the US will make a sharp turn towards conservatism. The makeup of the US is quite different in many ways from that of Canada. An estimated 26% of the population self-identify as evangelical Christians--making up what is commonly called the "religious right." In Canada--a post-Christian secular country--the proportion might be 1-2% at most. The other population group that backed Trump is the white supremacist/white nationalist people (mostly uneducated) whose proportion of the population is again much, much higher than in Canada (thank goodness). We saw the effects of this latter group in England with the Brexit vote, and much the same sentiment as in England is now found in the US--anti-immigrant, anti free trade, closed borders.
So we can expect the abandonment of many of Obama's accomplishments--health care, trade, tax reform, etc. The larger negative is that Congress will now be in the hands of the conservatives--both the House and Senate, and with a Conservative executive branch, nothing will stop a sharp and sustained turn towards conservative legislation at least in the short term. It's hard to predict how much influence Trump will have going forward. It's important, I think, to remember just how much the US Congress can tie the hands of the executive branch in the US; remember how little Obama could accomplish in his first term even with a Democratic Congress. I think that hold that the US Congress has on legislation is what gives me some consolation in the face of the election of a truly ignorant, narcissistic, ego-driven vulgarian as president. With the two houses in Congress, things often move at a glacial pace, and I'm optimistic that Trump's most dangerous and erratic impulses will be stopped cold by Congress.
The Democrats now need to think strategically about the mid-term elections in 2018. The US Senate is now 51-49 Republican, and flipping two seats will give the Dems a majority. If they can accomplish that (and remember how midterm elections in the US often go against the President's party), then a Democratic senate would be able to really tie Trump's hands. With luck, we may have only two years of serious Trumpism to endure.
For me, I've decided to stop paying attention to US politics for a good long while. My thinking is that the depression may only last a few more days....![sigh :sigh:](./images/smilies/sighw.gif)
So we can expect the abandonment of many of Obama's accomplishments--health care, trade, tax reform, etc. The larger negative is that Congress will now be in the hands of the conservatives--both the House and Senate, and with a Conservative executive branch, nothing will stop a sharp and sustained turn towards conservative legislation at least in the short term. It's hard to predict how much influence Trump will have going forward. It's important, I think, to remember just how much the US Congress can tie the hands of the executive branch in the US; remember how little Obama could accomplish in his first term even with a Democratic Congress. I think that hold that the US Congress has on legislation is what gives me some consolation in the face of the election of a truly ignorant, narcissistic, ego-driven vulgarian as president. With the two houses in Congress, things often move at a glacial pace, and I'm optimistic that Trump's most dangerous and erratic impulses will be stopped cold by Congress.
The Democrats now need to think strategically about the mid-term elections in 2018. The US Senate is now 51-49 Republican, and flipping two seats will give the Dems a majority. If they can accomplish that (and remember how midterm elections in the US often go against the President's party), then a Democratic senate would be able to really tie Trump's hands. With luck, we may have only two years of serious Trumpism to endure.
For me, I've decided to stop paying attention to US politics for a good long while. My thinking is that the depression may only last a few more days....
![sigh :sigh:](./images/smilies/sighw.gif)
It's the economy, stupid. It's always the economy.
Consider the following:
Only 7% of counties in the US have reached pre 2008 economic crash levels of employment.
The Rust Belt has lost roughly 800,000 manufacturing jobs since 1995.
Of new businesses started between 2010 and 2014, over half of them came from just 20 counties, 16 of which voted Democratic, in six states, four of which went Democratic and one is gradually turning blue.
One of the more prescient statements made last night was about the bright line in the current American economy. If you have a college degree, particularly if you're in a technology or professional field, you're above that bright line and life is pretty good. I am, and it is.
But if you aren't, the transformation that has taken place in the economy scares the hell out of you and rightfully so. It's a transformation akin to the industrialization of the country around the turn of the 20th century. Fortunately, we came out of that with Teddy Roosevelt. This time, Trump.
And when you view it within that context, a simplified anti-trade, anti-immigrant, anti-globalization message plays very, very well, whether the solutions contained with it (if there are any) are actually feasible or not.
You can wring your hands about sexism, racism, bigotry, voter apathy, naivety, lost opportunity..whatever. You can but/but/but all you want, but you're wasting your time. Those are all cultural manifests of life below that bright line and the economic tenuousness, real and perceived, of living beneath it. And trust me on this one, if you grow up with it, you never outgrow it.
But it's the economy, and whomever has the simplest most effective message about the economy wins. That was Trump.
There were two overarching messages here:
"I know what's causing your economic ills and I'll do something to stop them."
versus
"Please, he's crazy and unqualified to be President."
And the response from a plurality of voters in key states was "he may be crazy, but at least he understands what we're going through."
And things are bad enough, or are at least perceived to be bad enough, outside of high density urban areas below that bright line that brought about the results we saw last night.
Consider the following:
Only 7% of counties in the US have reached pre 2008 economic crash levels of employment.
The Rust Belt has lost roughly 800,000 manufacturing jobs since 1995.
Of new businesses started between 2010 and 2014, over half of them came from just 20 counties, 16 of which voted Democratic, in six states, four of which went Democratic and one is gradually turning blue.
One of the more prescient statements made last night was about the bright line in the current American economy. If you have a college degree, particularly if you're in a technology or professional field, you're above that bright line and life is pretty good. I am, and it is.
But if you aren't, the transformation that has taken place in the economy scares the hell out of you and rightfully so. It's a transformation akin to the industrialization of the country around the turn of the 20th century. Fortunately, we came out of that with Teddy Roosevelt. This time, Trump.
And when you view it within that context, a simplified anti-trade, anti-immigrant, anti-globalization message plays very, very well, whether the solutions contained with it (if there are any) are actually feasible or not.
You can wring your hands about sexism, racism, bigotry, voter apathy, naivety, lost opportunity..whatever. You can but/but/but all you want, but you're wasting your time. Those are all cultural manifests of life below that bright line and the economic tenuousness, real and perceived, of living beneath it. And trust me on this one, if you grow up with it, you never outgrow it.
But it's the economy, and whomever has the simplest most effective message about the economy wins. That was Trump.
There were two overarching messages here:
"I know what's causing your economic ills and I'll do something to stop them."
versus
"Please, he's crazy and unqualified to be President."
And the response from a plurality of voters in key states was "he may be crazy, but at least he understands what we're going through."
And things are bad enough, or are at least perceived to be bad enough, outside of high density urban areas below that bright line that brought about the results we saw last night.
- CardiacKid
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The US election spilled over to the CFL and Twitter with former team mates Jeff Hecht and Jon Cornish going at it and going at it with a lot of vitriol. Matt Walter was also chiming in along with Nik Lewis.
Oddly enough the biggest Trump fan boys were Hecht and Walter, both Canadian born with no vote in the election. It got very heated.
Hecht is unflinching in his love of Trump. Hate to burst his bubble but Trump thinks everyone who doesn't live on a golden throne is a loser...aside from himself that is. And as Mark Cuban said "Trump is the kinda guy who will walk into a bar and say anything to get laid".
Oddly enough the biggest Trump fan boys were Hecht and Walter, both Canadian born with no vote in the election. It got very heated.
Hecht is unflinching in his love of Trump. Hate to burst his bubble but Trump thinks everyone who doesn't live on a golden throne is a loser...aside from himself that is. And as Mark Cuban said "Trump is the kinda guy who will walk into a bar and say anything to get laid".
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Thank God I live in Canada
- CardiacKid
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X2TheLionKing wrote:Thank God I live in Canada
And apparently Nik Lewis thinks so too. I hope Henry Burris gets his citizenship so he can stay as well. And a few NCAA players have tweeted "CFL?"...
Don't forget there is a trial regarding Trump University coming soon. As well as the sexual assault trial involving his alleged rape of a 13 year girl. Such an honourable gentleman....
- Sir Purrcival
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Don't be surprised if those cases suddenly and mysteriously go away. There is no way that a President is ever going to see the inside of a courtroom. His supposed audit is probably going away too.
Last edited by Sir Purrcival on Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.