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Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
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David wrote:I feel badly for Benny as he really bleeds orange. He's invested a lot of himself with the organization and seems like a decent guy.
He definitely comes across as a decent guy. And of course, that has little to do with being the Head Coach of a pro football team.
I have sympathy for all these guys. Terribly tough job. But they chose it.
Benny started as a volunteer. Like a lot of guys, he rode along with a very good program, Wally's. Guys could survive in that program, thinking they knew how to coach at the highest level. Wally could get the talent. He needed a good OC and a good DC. He provided stability. It worked for 20 years. But it seems to have finally suffered in the face of evolution. Talent has leveled out, as it is so abundant. Coaching now makes the difference. The guys on Wally's staff face sharp opponents, with vast experience, credentials and expertise. Wally's guys would not be in demand at other programs. The days of Wally's Country Club for Lifetime Coaches are over. I think Wally will not want to make the tough decisions he faces. It may take the hard advice of those close to him to make it happen.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
David wrote:
Wally may see it differently. His stubborn side may want to bring Bene back to prove to himself and others that the extension was justified. He may even convince himself and those around him that with a better O-coordinator and quarterback, he would have had much better success. But I think he's really fooling himself. I've watched this team long enough to know that all signs point to a coach that had lost the room. His troops were constantly doing stupid, selfish things on the field. And how many times this season did we see the sluggish "two and out" starts, lousy 3rd quarters, poor in-game decisions (followed by post-game mia culpas), and odd personnel decisions?? That HAS to fall on the Head Coach. The players are more perceptive than we give them credit for. They sensed Bene was in over his head and lost hope toward the end.
DH
If Benevides and his assistants comes back to "prove themselves" they will be doing it in front of a few hundred fans.
ballhawk wrote:“At the end of the day I love coach Benevides and I'm going to play for him and in my eyes he's a great coach,” Elimimian said. “Individually, I don't feel guys played to where we needed to play."
Further-
"And in the opinion of one veteran who may or may not get a chance to play a 12th CFL season for the Lions, partly because of his candour, making too many more changes, or the wrong ones, could make a bad situation even worse."
You should, I don't know, flip on a television or go to the stadium and watch the actual product sometime.
And how about Hall as Head Coach...Jeff Garcia as OC and QB Coach, Kelly Bates as OLine and RB coach, Geroy brought in to coach the Receivers, then Hall can bring in what he needs on defence without him having to dual as a positional coach...this could work very well for us...
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
MexicoLionFan wrote:And how about Hall as Head Coach...Jeff Garcia as OC and QB Coach, Kelly Bates as OLine and RB coach, Geroy brought in to coach the Receivers, then Hall can bring in what he needs on defence without him having to dual as a positional coach...this could work very well for us...
Parts of this confounds me MLF. One of the bigger criticisms of Jones has revolved around his relative inexperience as an OC yet some are suggesting Garcia should become BC's next OC based on his career coaching resume that begins and ends with 13 regular season and 1 playoff game as Montreals QBC. It's one thing to coach/mentor a youngster such as Crompton in what amounts to a class size of 4 and quite another to be tasked with putting together an entire offense. It would be a huge leap of faith to turn the keys over to someone so green. As for Geroy I'm not sure if that's the career path he wants to take. So far he seems more interested in the personnel side of the business than the coaching side but a return to the left coast in any role may be just what he's looking for.
I'm with others on the thoughts re: Richie Hall. Adding a career defensive coach to a team that seems in good position for coaches on the defensive side of the ball seems redundant. Having said that a new HC would normally be empowered to hire his own staff meaning he could well gut the entire coaching staff including Washington, Holland and Hairston. That wouldn't be surprising as quite often coaches will try to surround themselves with guys they've worked with in the past and feel comfortable with.
Overall though I'd have grave concerns with your suggestions because I don't like the mix and most importantly inexperience. I have no problems with the suggestion of promoting Bates into the suggested role. It's the sum of the parts that doesn't add up for me. The biggest cause of handwringing and angst for Lionbackers over the past 3 or 4 seasons has been surrounding the offensive side of the ball. What you're suggesting is we add 20 years of defensive coaching experience at the top of the hierarchy and turn the offensive keys over to 3 guys with a combined coaching resume that consists of Bates' 4 years as an offensive assistant and RBC, Garcia's 14 games as Montreal QBC and Geroy's experience coaching Cloverdale minor football. That's 4 years and 14 games of combined CFL coaching experience, woefully thin methinks to generate new life in an offence that could well be operating with a new QB who may or may not have any CFL experience.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
David wrote:
Wally may see it differently. His stubborn side may want to bring Bene back to prove to himself and others that the extension was justified. He may even convince himself and those around him that with a better O-coordinator and quarterback, he would have had much better success. But I think he's really fooling himself. I've watched this team long enough to know that all signs point to a coach that had lost the room. His troops were constantly doing stupid, selfish things on the field. And how many times this season did we see the sluggish "two and out" starts, lousy 3rd quarters, poor in-game decisions (followed by post-game mia culpas), and odd personnel decisions?? That HAS to fall on the Head Coach. The players are more perceptive than we give them credit for. They sensed Bene was in over his head and lost hope toward the end.
DH
If Benevides and his assistants comes back to "prove themselves" they will be doing it in front of a few hundred fans.
Yes and no TheLionKing. Do I think Benevides should be back? No. Do I think he will come back? Yes (Wally is resistant to too much change, there's the extension thing, and he was on TSN1040 right after the infamous "Mike didn't coach well" comment to NEWS1130 citing Bene's overall record as HC in BC). But I do think Khari Jones and perhaps even some other assistants have coached their last game here in BC.
Travis was on TSN1040 this morning and made no guarantees for next season. His top priority is to get healthy. It's going to be an interesting off-season....
David wrote:
Wally may see it differently. His stubborn side may want to bring Bene back to prove to himself and others that the extension was justified. He may even convince himself and those around him that with a better O-coordinator and quarterback, he would have had much better success. But I think he's really fooling himself. I've watched this team long enough to know that all signs point to a coach that had lost the room. His troops were constantly doing stupid, selfish things on the field. And how many times this season did we see the sluggish "two and out" starts, lousy 3rd quarters, poor in-game decisions (followed by post-game mia culpas), and odd personnel decisions?? That HAS to fall on the Head Coach. The players are more perceptive than we give them credit for. They sensed Bene was in over his head and lost hope toward the end.
DH
If Benevides and his assistants comes back to "prove themselves" they will be doing it in front of a few hundred fans.
Yes and no TheLionKing. Do I think Benevides should be back? No. Do I think he will come back? Yes (Wally is resistant to too much change, there's the extension thing, and he was on TSN1040 right after the infamous "Mike didn't coach well" comment to NEWS1130 citing Bene's overall record as HC in BC). But I do think Khari Jones and perhaps even some other assistants have coached their last game here in BC.
Travis was on TSN1040 this morning and made no guarantees for next season. His top priority is to get healthy. It's going to be an interesting off-season....
DH
Some of which all begs the question; how much smarter and more astute would the coaching staff look with even half a season of a healthy Lulay at the helm vs the full season of Kevin Glenn that we witnessed. In some ways this season reminds me of hockey comparisons where self-deprecating coaches have admitted they look a lot smarter with top tier goaltending than they do with journeyman goaltending.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
Hambone, these are ideas to start the process...I expect the process to take some time. I like Ritchie Hall because he possesses a top football mind on the defensive side. This is what we need...Ritchie has HC experience and I am certain learned a lot about the do's and don'ts...Ritchie is also the most experienced coordinator in the league, and the fact that he is still a coordinator and not a HC is a benefit because he has the "book" on every offence in the league which will help the new DC...Perhaps Barron Miles?
Worrying about promoting the likes of Garcia and Geroy doesn't bother me at all. They weren't just great players they were students of the game...who better to coach a receiver in the CFL than Geroy Simon...I don't care that he helped in Cloverdale...as for Garcia, I am told that he has a playbook, he has put together an offensive system...that is more than good enough for me. Garcia succeeded at QB, without the prototype body, IN EVERY LEAGUE HE PLAYED IN, because he KNOWS how to be successful...this is EXACTLY who I would want teaching our QBs and calling our offence. Why would Khari Jones continue to run empty backfields on 2nd and long without much of any success when our only experienced QB continued to get hit badly??? Because he didn't have any better ideas...if there was one thing that could be surmised about Jones in this one season is that his system was SIMPLE, his formations didn't really lead anywhere or build on anything, and he was limited in ideas. The problem with our Offence wasn't that the players never understood Jone's system, it failed because Jone's system was like Primary school to the likes Hall and Jones...
Jeff Garcia is a VERY BRIGHT guy...his playing history across college and 2 pro leagues leaves him in SELECT company. His work in the NFL and the CFL already as a coach and advisor show him as not only a bright mind, but a GREAT TEACHER! So for me, I would sign him today to run our offence...and if it took him 2 seasons to get this unit firing upon full cylinders, so what...the future would be extremely bright...plus you would be bringing in a guy that could become HC in another 4 to 5 seasons...the same with bringing in Barron Miles to become the DC...HC material in another 4 or 5 seasons. What did we hear from Mark Washington yesterday? He shredded himself because he said his system was to obvious and passive...and while its admirable that he was honest, he should NEVER have allowed himself to be in that position, whether he was pushed their by Wally and Benny, or went there himself. Anyone looking at the Lions Defensive success this season could see how they were doing it (largely upon the uniques gifts and talents of Biggie and Sol) and where they were vulnerable. This is why I told you and everyone else here by mid season that Washington's D would get lit up when the games really mattered...he's NOT head coaching material...I don't know that he's Coordinator material...he might be with enough time AND HELP!
Ritchie Hall has all the experience in the world...he would fill in the rest of his staff with a mix of veteran and younger coaches that he knew and trusted. I wouldn't worry a bit about their experience. Experience can be made up quickly, but there is NO SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLIGENCE...and let's be honest, the present Lion's staff is NOT populated with bright minds...Benevides selection didn't bother me so much because of his lack of experience, it bothered me because of his lack of SUCCESS! Everyone here needs to realize that the CFL is a DIFFERENT GAME NOW! It started with Hufnagel and Trestman...these are two of the smartest football minds in the WORLD! To compete against them, you must be able to think like them...Chapdelaine and Stubler could...Jones and Washington can't. Experience is over rated...what is more important is INTELLIGENCE and ATTITUDE! You have to KNOW that you will be successful (see Don Matthews) to be successful. Garcia, Geroy, Miles and certainly Ritchie Hall all come from this world. Ritchie Hall would not "fail" twice as a Head Coach, I know this because Ritchie is just too smart and talented!
As for Lulay he isn't coming back...its really not time to look back, rather forward for the Lions...when it gets damp or cold that shoulder joint simply WON'T FUNCTION for Travis...not without consistent cortisone injections and you can only use that stuff for so long; plus, the cortisone wouldn't do anything to help with his accuracy! Its time to find the next BC Lions QB...
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
Hambone wrote-
Some of which all begs the question; how much smarter and more astute would the coaching staff look with even half a season of a healthy Lulay at the helm vs the full season of Kevin Glenn that we witnessed. In some ways this season reminds me of hockey comparisons where self-deprecating coaches have admitted they look a lot smarter with top tier goaltending than they do with journeyman goaltending. (end quote)
I believe there is much merit to your post hambone. I have mentioned in previous posts that the QB situation IMO has been the major factor with the Lions this year, and had Lulay been at the controls the harshness of the current posts against the Lions coaches would not have occurred. As much as I have appreciated watching Glenn through the years, I believe age may have caught up with him and he has not been the Glenn of old. IMO he has lost some of his visual processing and peripheral vision (both extremely important to a quarterback), and has shown panic even when he is not rushed or after he has avoided the rush.
Nevertheless, a major coaching mistake this year was not giving both Beck and Partridge more reps this year. There were many occasions when Glenn should have been pulled and either Beck or Partridge given the opportunity to play. The last regular game in Calgary was a prime example. It was silly to see poor Partridge out there in the 3rd quarter playing in the semis with virtually no reps through the regular season.
While respecting the opinions of other posters on this website, I respectfully disagree and believe Benevides and the other coaches should be given the opportunity to right the ship next year. A suitable QB is crucial. That's my opinion. While I was made to look a fool by cromartie because I disagree with him and many other posters on this issue, my previous post simply included quotes by Elimimian and Marsh.
"the 1996 season was a very difficult period... I couldn't imagine telling people that I was part of the last days of the CFL... it seemed that there would be no end to the continuous stream of catastrophic problems... it was like living in a toxic fishbowl... if they had known how serious the situation was, but we couldn't make it public, for fear of a total meltdown". (from Bigger Balls, The CFL and Overcoming the Canadian Inferiority Complex, by Jeff Giles)
If Lulay was capable of making a difference this season HE WOULD HAVE. To argue that the coaches would have been better had Lulay been playing all season is tantamount to saying that Santa Claus would have made a great Tooth Fairy if only he were an Elf!
Lulay was given all the time in the world to come back and the first significant hit he took, his shoulder separated...he wasn't ready because that shoulder won't EVER be ready again...he's done! When Lulay was in the game prior to the hit, he a slightly different throwing motion and even worse accuracy than before. Lulay wasn't ever going to help this team this season! Even with Kevin Glenn as QB, the Lions had as good of talent as any other CFL offence...they just didn't have THE COACHING! When our running game had Harris and Logan healthy our offence ran a total of THREE play action passes until the point that Andrew got hurt...hmmm...
As an experiment, I would love to see Wally trade one of our OLinemen (say Norman) and watch how well he does with his next team...the problem isn't the talent! Its all the bonehead decisions that are too numerous to list!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
MexicoLionFan wrote:As an experiment, I would love to see Wally trade one of our OLinemen (say Norman) and watch how well he does with his next team...the problem isn't the talent! Its all the bonehead decisions that are too numerous to list!
So true MexicoLionFan!!!! Just give Dorazio more time to screw up Hunter Steward like he has with a regressing Norman and Fabian. One of the many painful things yesterday was watching the Als all-Canadian offensive line dominate the 2nd half. Suitor kept pointing out how Bomben owned Khalif Mitchell. This is a guy who was a 4th round pick and didn't start until last year.
The Als have lost Bryan Chiu and Scott Flory in recent years to retirement yet still have no need for internationals. We need to start three of them. Embarrassing!!!
MexicoLionFan wrote:As an experiment, I would love to see Wally trade one of our OLinemen (say Norman) and watch how well he does with his next team...the problem isn't the talent! Its all the bonehead decisions that are too numerous to list!
So true MexicoLionFan!!!! Just give Dorazio more time to screw up Hunter Steward like he has with a regressing Norman and Fabian. One of the many painful things yesterday was watching the Als all-Canadian offensive line dominate the 2nd half. Suitor kept pointing out how Bomben owned Khalif Mitchell. This is a guy who was a 4th round pick and didn't start until last year.
The Als have lost Bryan Chiu and Scott Flory in recent years to retirement yet still have no need for internationals. We need to start three of them. Embarrassing!!!
Been harping on that issue ad infinitum.
Kristian Matte was not a starter at the beginning of last year, if I recall correctly.
Waddayagonna do? The O Line thread is full of comments on this recurring theme.
But here we are at the end of Year 12 of this O Line regime. And the schmozzle remains the same.
Norman and Fabien have backslid. Steward looked so good for a rookie. Next year?
Olafioye has backslid.
We keep throwing high draft picks at guys with great potential. And it goes nowhere.
So we end up using three Internationals in the O Line. These guys come with pro experience intact. Out of the box. And if they don't fit the coach, or the system, open another box. They are almost a dime a dozen. But to build your own, from National draft picks, that takes skill and coaching ability.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
MexicoLionFan wrote:As an experiment, I would love to see Wally trade one of our OLinemen (say Norman) and watch how well he does with his next team...the problem isn't the talent! Its all the bonehead decisions that are too numerous to list!
So true MexicoLionFan!!!! Just give Dorazio more time to screw up Hunter Steward like he has with a regressing Norman and Fabian. One of the many painful things yesterday was watching the Als all-Canadian offensive line dominate the 2nd half. Suitor kept pointing out how Bomben owned Khalif Mitchell. This is a guy who was a 4th round pick and didn't start until last year.
The Als have lost Bryan Chiu and Scott Flory in recent years to retirement yet still have no need for internationals. We need to start three of them. Embarrassing!!!
Been harping on that issue ad infinitum.
Kristian Matte was not a starter at the beginning of last year, if I recall correctly.
Waddayagonna do? The O Line thread is full of comments on this recurring theme.
But here we are at the end of Year 12 of this O Line regime. And the schmozzle remains the same.
Norman and Fabien have backslid. Steward looked so good for a rookie. Next year?
Olafioye has backslid.
We keep throwing high draft picks at guys with great potential. And it goes nowhere.
So we end up using three Internationals in the O Line. These guys come with pro experience intact. Out of the box. And if they don't fit the coach, or the system, open another box. They are almost a dime a dozen. But to build your own, from National draft picks, that takes skill and coaching ability.
x 2
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
