Ti-Cats 52 - Lions 22 Post Game Stats and Comments

[aklawitter]

What will it take for Upchuck/Chuckles McMann to get fired?

Why are we returning kickoffs 15 yards to the 20 instead of taking the ball at the 35?

[BC 1988]

It was obvious after the second fumble by Andrew Harris (he looked like Chad Owens at his most careless) that Murphy's law was going to apply for the Lions all night.

Well, at least Travis managed to avoid being knocked out for the season with an injury. As expected, HAM D did not let up and it was looking like we were going to regret leaving him in there as late as they did. It was a positive that Beck got some playing time, so they can see he's not the QB of the future.

The glimpse near the half of the Operation Orange contingent after one of the few things to cheer about--I can't imagine a more excruciating fan experience than sitting through that demolition.

I'm glad this game was immediately followed by another one just like it. HAM and CGY are both playing without key weapons and still are far and away the class of the league.

[Toppy Vann]

It was obvious after the second fumble by Andrew Harris (he looked like Chad Owens at his most careless) that Murphy's law was going to apply for the Lions all night.

Well, at least Travis managed to avoid being knocked out for the season with an injury. As expected, HAM D did not let up and it was looking like we were going to regret leaving him in there as late as they did. It was a positive that Beck got some playing time, so they can see he's not the QB of the future.

The glimpse near the half of the Operation Orange contingent after one of the few things to cheer about--I can't imagine a more excruciating fan experience than sitting through that demolition.

I'm glad this game was immediately followed by another one just like it. HAM and CGY are both playing without key weapons and still are far and away the class of the league.

I think when Travis put his shoulder into the attempted tackle on the INT he looked like he wanted to toss himself under the bus just to get out of there.

Can you imagine BC 1988 what it must be like to be on that flight with those players and coaches? That would be one flight I'd be glad to miss.

How long can you fake being asleep on a plane to avoid eye contact with players or coaches? Actually I guess the same amount of time most of your BC Lions were sleeping in that game - 60 minutes plus half time and toss in the pre-game warm up.

Actually Wally should have cancelled that charter flight and got them a Greyhound bus back to Vancouver.

As to Lion fans setting their hair on fire or being embarrassed (how can that be when you're not playing or coaching?) as anyone whose been in sports knows this happens. Teams are up and down and all teams will end up in the tank eventually as will Hamilton again - just maybe not in the next 3 years.

[Rammer]

I had to laugh at one point in the 4th Q. when they showed game stats. We were losing 51 - 12. We had 9 1st downs, Hamilton had 10! It is hard to watch a game like this but the result was deserved. We were outclassed in every phase of the game and it is likely that we are going to have more games like this. I'm guessing that Sol is gone for at least a game by the look of things.

This is the team that I was expecting this year. They had me thinking I had misjudged them for a bit but I'm right back to square one with "it is going to be a long season". We are in deep trouble at QB, defensive secondary, defensive line and receiver. I pretty much agree with everything that has been said in this thread. Personally, I think Washington needs to go. His defense is just poor and it can't all be about the personnel on the field. We are going to have to find another QB somewhere who we can groom to take the place of Travis. He maybe be our #1 for the rest of the season but I do think the clock is now ticking on him. If anything he seems to be regressing rather than progressing.

The D for Hamilton appears to be everything ours is not. Strong front 4, smart secondary, good ball hawking skills, lots of energy. I'll take one please!

The receivers do not appear to be even in the same league as most other receivers for other teams. Arsenault is not even near the same plane as an SJ Green, Adarious Bowman, Weston Dressler to name a few and he is supposed to be our go to guy. Collie has been mostly a bust and Gore is basically another forgotten player who rarely sees the ball. Taylor is ok and Leonard is basically a rookie who is in there because of injuries.

Our secondary sucks. Even stops are usually 6-7 yards downfield. Most of the time I expect to see opposition receivers with 3-4 yards of separation and hoping beyond hope that their QB throws poorly. That seems to be the only way we can stop plays on a regular basis.

It is what it is but a few more efforts like this and BC Place will be a ghost town except for STH. Losing is bad enough but when you see a professional team that is playing more like a pickup squad compared to the competition, selling that kind of product is tough.

Very well put SirP. No need to say anything more, so goodnight.

[Rammer]

A thought did come to mind, Leone was the lone bright spot vs Hamilton. Even he wasn't up to par

[SammyGreene]

The discrepancy in talent last night between the two teams was frightening. The Lions looked like one of those badly outclassed and putrified Mike Tyson opponents during the early days of his career.

Tiger-cats did everything at a different speed. The schemes on both sides of the ball are bad enough but I also see a lot of positions where the Lions simply don’t have the athleticism to compete at that level. Fingers really need to be pointed at Wally, Neil McElvoy and their scouting staff as well.
How can they be satisfied with Antolin as the back-up RB/kick returner? Shifty but slow as hell. Ianuzzi looked like a speed merchant in comparison and that’s sad.

The defence somehow pitched a 2nd half shutout last week yet TJ Lee gets his job back and gets lit up again. Rwabukamba is a joke at safety. Lacks instinct, is slow and can’t tackle.

Wally cuts the likes of Taylor, Brown, Marsh and Banks, won’t spend big bucks on free agency to land an impact player like a Ted Laurent when he was available last year then can’t find adequate replacements.

Are the Lions starting to pinch pennies? LU somewhat suggested that in his blog prior to yesterday’s game — pointing out it was just a 1 day trip back east and not the usual accommodations either.

In years past the team has travelled east two days early in attempt to make body clock adjustments that drew the odd complaint from players that they arrived too early with too much free time.

But another sign as to how things are different this year seemed apparent when the Lions surprised a hotel full of seniors when they checked into a roadside Holiday Inn in Burlington, Ont. and had to immediately deal with the effects of 83 per-cent humidity which is the norm at this time of year.

[DanoT]

The discrepancy in talent last night between the two teams was frighting. The Lions looked like one of those badly outclassed and putrified Mike Tyson opponents during the early days of his career.

Tiger-cats did everything at a different speed. The schemes on both sides of the ball are bad enough but I also see a lot of positions where the Lions simply don’t have the athleticism to compete at that level. Fingers really need to be pointed at Wally, Neil McElvoy and their scouting staff as well.
How can they be satisfied with Antolin as the back-up RB/kick returner? Shifty but slow as hell. Ianuzzi looked like a speed merchant in comparison and that’s sad.

The defence somehow pitched a 2nd half shutout last week yet TJ Lee gets his job back and gets lit up again. Rwabukamba is a joke at safety. Lacks instinct, is slow and can’t tackle.

Wally cuts the likes of Taylor, Brown, Marsh and Banks, won’t spend big bucks on free agency to land an impact player like a Ted Laurent when he was available last year then can’t find adequate replacements.

Are the Lions starting to pinch pennies? LU somewhat suggested that in his blog prior to yesterday’s game — pointing out it was just a 1 day trip back east and not the usual accommodations either.

In years past the team has travelled east two days early in attempt to make body clock adjustments that drew the odd complaint from players that they arrived too early with too much free time.

But another sign as to how things are different this year seemed apparent when the Lions surprised a hotel full of seniors when they checked into a roadside Holiday Inn in Burlington, Ont. and had to immediately deal with the effects of 83 per-cent humidity which is the norm at this time of year.

So the Operation Orange fans got to stay in a Holiday Inn in Burlington instead of staying in Hamilton...While Hamilton is not the greatest tourist city, Burlington is not the best way of getting a feel for tiger town. Assuming Duffy's Tavern, The Grange, and the Corktown are still around (I last lived in Hamilton 45+ years ago) they are/were worth visiting.

[dat]

Wally said awhile ago- " The pass rush is fine ." This from Moj and the broadcasters at Team 1040 broadcasting the game- " Collaros has time to sit and have a beer back in the pocket, there is no pressure on him ." When you can't generate a rush the skill of your DB's is irrelevant. No DB can cover a receiver indefinitely and even more so now with the no contact rule. The Lions used to be able to find or recruit talent but that seems to be a problem the last few years. After Keron Williams had some good seasons at DE they tried to move him to defensive tackle with poor results, then didn't resign him. That game was embarrassing for the offence, defence and special teams. When you get dominated on the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball the result is predictable. I felt like I was back in the early 70's watching the game last night, that's how far back I have to go to think of seeing a worse Lions game. No one showed up to play.
dat

[DanoT]

Wally said awhile ago- " The pass rush is fine ." This from Moj and the broadcasters at Team 1040 broadcasting the game- " Collaros has time to sit and have a beer back in the pocket, there is no pressure on him ." When you can't generate a rush the skill of your DB's is irrelevant. No DB can cover a receiver indefinitely and even more so now with the no contact rule. The Lions used to be able to find or recruit talent but that seems to be a problem the last few years. After Keron Williams had some good seasons at DE they tried to move him to defensive tackle with poor results, then didn't resign him. That game was embarrassing for the offence, defence and special teams. When you get dominated on the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball the result is predictable. I felt like I was back in the early 70's watching the game last night, that's how far back I have to go to think of seeing a worse Lions game. No one showed up to play.
dat

The game reminded me of last season's playoff meltdown thrashing by the Als. This is a worse D line talent wise compared to last season with the same inadequate coaching by a DC who I now believe is in over his head.

[VictoriaFan]

thank the gods for fast forward on the pvr. Was that a preseason game? The safety was running around like a chicken with his head cut off, what about K. Parker or Fraser? Even Larose looked good compared to Chris R. At least Beck looked sharp on his throws, maybe Ham. eased up knowing it was a sure win, I'm glad they yanked Lulay with a bit of time in the game not the last 2 minutes of a sure loss.

[MexicoLionFan]

While I will be the first to tell you that the Lions talent needs to improve, especially at the SKILLED POSITIONS (QB, WR, DE, CB, KR), remember that with a Chris Jones coaching this EXACT defence they would be in the top 4 statistically, even with this DLine! Right now, more than ANYTHING else, the Lion's players are DOWN because they are getting beaten and beaten up almost every single game. The Lions had ZERO business winning that game vs. EDM last week, and if you take away the 2 wins against a SSK team that wasn't ready to play defensively, the Lions have done essentially little to nothing this season. Why? What is the single largest reason why?

COACHING...and that relates directly to Jeff Tedford who should NEVER have taken this job without either having complete control over the on-field product, or the time and money to conduct a continent wide search for the best possible staff! Either way, Tedford has FAILED miserably thus far! Defensively he kept an EXPOSED MW as the DC and has allowed him to fail from day one without CONSEQUENCES! Tedford hired George Cortez as the OC, and has stood silently by while Cortez has failed miserably with the Spread Offence, which is PUZZLING because with a QB coming off of two shoulder surgeries and an offensive talent base that SCREAMS a Pro Style Offence, Tedford (who predominately ran the "Pro" at Cal) hasn't run it! He is culpable for putting a genuine Tight End/H-Back in Leonard as a SLOT receiver in the spread and essentially WASTING the massive schematic mismatch he presents in the Pro set! Cortez brought Doug Malone with him who has done an amazing job taking a hodge-podge of players and turning them into an effective unit from day one, but outside of Malone WHICH COACH HAS DONE A GOOD JOB???

* Chuck McMann = a LONG TERM MASSIVE FAILURE
* Cortez = a MASSIVE failure
* Khari Jones = a failure, once again
* Robin Ross = a disappointment as the personnel have been used out of position and players haven't really progressed with ZERO results, although the talent isn't adequate
* MW = a MASSIVE failure beginning with the collapse of the defence LAST SEASON with ZERO changes to his passive systems, they've even become more passive, if that's possible
* Johnny Holland = unknown, as he doesn't have any LBs to coach, only DBs
* William Fields = unknown, as he's not allowed to coach any technique to players who only BACK PEDAL
* Quinn Tedfored = a MASSIVE fail, as his job is to assess the film and make recommendations to every play as to how to better execute, this isn't happening

Again, the talent MUST get better in BC, and Wally IS NO LONGER THE GUY to see that happen. Wally has "nickel and dimed" so many players and has outright LIED so many times that there IS A STIGMA league wide to avoid playing for Wally Buono. Since his actions against Korey Banks, we have "magically" lost out on most FAs, even when our monetary offer has been higher...there's a reason for this. The FAs that are asked to camp over the last 4 years in particular have been INADEQUATE as well, plus, as an organization, we RARELY DEVELOP talent, especially Non Import talent!

Combine this with our Coaching woes, and this team is LUCKY to have the record it does! But again, the ON-FIELD product should be the responsibility of Jeff Telford, whether he asked for it or not, and most of this mess falls on Jeff because our Offensive and Defensive systems are simply put NOT GOOD ENOUGH and our Special Teams are UNSPECIAL and that's with a FREAKAZOID Kicker and a very good CDN returner!

Now, I KNOW that Jeff Tedford is better than this, but again the correct question to ask is WHY? Why is he not only tolerating, but collaborating with soft, antiquated systems that encourage confidence with the opposition and lack of passion/engagement with his own players? I posted a ton over the last 2 years about the abysmal coaching and managing with the Lions. So I got excited when JT was signed during the offseason, only to be "beaten down" once again by the same old SH$T in BC...we are being badly out coached most games and we are playing BORING football that will only result in a further weathering away of our fan base! As I said in week 4, SOMETHING has to given in Vancouver...either Wally exerts his force and fires Tedford as his final coup de gras to the Lion's franchise, or Tedford finally STANDS UP FOR SANITY and demands that key moves are made. Because without one or the other, NOTHING WILL CHANGE in Vancouver...this crap described as football will continued to execute fans until only a handful are left!

[The_Pauser]

Wow. I know blaming the coaching seems to be the cool thing among some people around here, but at what point do you understand that coaches can only do so much with the players they are given? Are the defensive schemes terrible? For sure. But there are some limitations to that defense that has to be put on the calibre of players. We don't have a good defensive line. That's not on the coaches, that's on the GM and the scouting staff for not providing us with the talent needed. What is on the coaches is the stupid idiotic scheme that sees a guy like Adam Bighill dropping back in coverage.

On offense, it seems like a lot more of the same from past years, and that is a bit of a concern. However, even in past years our offense hasn't been THIS bad. This is a veteran offensive group that should be a lot better than it has been.

I also find it funny how someone can call out an offensive quality control coach who's job is primarily to assess video, and call him a massive failure. Unless you are involved in these coaching meetings and discussions, and are involved in the game planning and scheming, all you do is sound like a massive complainer.

[TheLionKing]

While I will be the first to tell you that the Lions talent needs to improve, especially at the SKILLED POSITIONS (QB, WR, DE, CB, KR), remember that with a Chris Jones coaching this EXACT defence they would be in the top 4 statistically, even with this DLine! Right now, more than ANYTHING else, the Lion's players are DOWN because they are getting beaten and beaten up almost every single game. The Lions had ZERO business winning that game vs. EDM last week, and if you take away the 2 wins against a SSK team that wasn't ready to play defensively, the Lions have done essentially little to nothing this season. Why? What is the single largest reason why?

COACHING...and that relates directly to Jeff Tedford who should NEVER have taken this job without either having complete control over the on-field product, or the time and money to conduct a continent wide search for the best possible staff! Either way, Tedford has FAILED miserably thus far! Defensively he kept an EXPOSED MW as the DC and has allowed him to fail from day one without CONSEQUENCES! Tedford hired George Cortez as the OC, and has stood silently by while Cortez has failed miserably with the Spread Offence, which is PUZZLING because with a QB coming off of two shoulder surgeries and an offensive talent base that SCREAMS a Pro Style Offence, Tedford (who predominately ran the "Pro" at Cal) hasn't run it! He is culpable for putting a genuine Tight End/H-Back in Leonard as a SLOT receiver in the spread and essentially WASTING the massive schematic mismatch he presents in the Pro set! Cortez brought Doug Malone with him who has done an amazing job taking a hodge-podge of players and turning them into an effective unit from day one, but outside of Malone WHICH COACH HAS DONE A GOOD JOB???

* Chuck McMann = a LONG TERM MASSIVE FAILURE
* Cortez = a MASSIVE failure
* Khari Jones = a failure, once again
* Robin Ross = a disappointment as the personnel have been used out of position and players haven't really progressed with ZERO results, although the talent isn't adequate
* MW = a MASSIVE failure beginning with the collapse of the defence LAST SEASON with ZERO changes to his passive systems, they've even become more passive, if that's possible
* Johnny Holland = unknown, as he doesn't have any LBs to coach, only DBs
* William Fields = unknown, as he's not allowed to coach any technique to players who only BACK PEDAL
* Quinn Tedfored = a MASSIVE fail, as his job is to assess the film and make recommendations to every play as to how to better execute, this isn't happening

Again, the talent MUST get better in BC, and Wally IS NO LONGER THE GUY to see that happen. Wally has "nickel and dimed" so many players and has outright LIED so many times that there IS A STIGMA league wide to avoid playing for Wally Buono. Since his actions against Korey Banks, we have "magically" lost out on most FAs, even when our monetary offer has been higher...there's a reason for this. The FAs that are asked to camp over the last 4 years in particular have been INADEQUATE as well, plus, as an organization, we RARELY DEVELOP talent, especially Non Import talent!

Combine this with our Coaching woes, and this team is LUCKY to have the record it does! But again, the ON-FIELD product should be the responsibility of Jeff Telford, whether he asked for it or not, and most of this mess falls on Jeff because our Offensive and Defensive systems are simply put NOT GOOD ENOUGH and our Special Teams are UNSPECIAL and that's with a FREAKAZOID Kicker and a very good CDN returner!

Now, I KNOW that Jeff Tedford is better than this, but again the correct question to ask is WHY? Why is he not only tolerating, but collaborating with soft, antiquated systems that encourage confidence with the opposition and lack of passion/engagement with his own players? I posted a ton over the last 2 years about the abysmal coaching and managing with the Lions. So I got excited when JT was signed during the offseason, only to be "beaten down" once again by the same old SH$T in BC...we are being badly out coached most games and we are playing BORING football that will only result in a further weathering away of our fan base! As I said in week 4, SOMETHING has to given in Vancouver...either Wally exerts his force and fires Tedford as his final coup de gras to the Lion's franchise, or Tedford finally STANDS UP FOR SANITY and demands that key moves are made. Because without one or the other, NOTHING WILL CHANGE in Vancouver...this crap described as football will continued to execute fans until only a handful are left!

Amen to that

[Rodu]

We're probably drafting 1 or 2 overall. Baring drafting a project player again, we should get someone good

[MexicoLionFan]

Wow. I know blaming the coaching seems to be the cool thing among some people around here, but at what point do you understand that coaches can only do so much with the players they are given? Are the defensive schemes terrible? For sure. But there are some limitations to that defense that has to be put on the calibre of players. We don't have a good defensive line. That's not on the coaches, that's on the GM and the scouting staff for not providing us with the talent needed. What is on the coaches is the stupid idiotic scheme that sees a guy like Adam Bighill dropping back in coverage.

On offense, it seems like a lot more of the same from past years, and that is a bit of a concern. However, even in past years our offense hasn't been THIS bad. This is a veteran offensive group that should be a lot better than it has been.

I also find it funny how someone can call out an offensive quality control coach who's job is primarily to assess video, and call him a massive failure. Unless you are involved in these coaching meetings and discussions, and are involved in the game planning and scheming, all you do is sound like a massive complainer.

This is largely the same back 8 of the defence from last season where you and many others were loudly singing the praises of...suddenly they can't play? I don't believe that at all...its scheme...put Chris Jones in charge of the Lions D with our LB crew and we would be the #1 Defence in the CFL. As for Quinn Tedford, personally, he may be doing a great job observing things but unless something changes from his observations then his ROLE is a massive failure as its NOT DOING ITS JOB. You see, if you don't take the time to see the larger problems with the Lions then you just come off a massive ENABLER of the status quo. The same status quo that is running this franchise into the ground!

And its not "blaming the coaches", there is lots of blame to go around, including the talent which I observed that in key areas isn't good enough. And its not all of the coaches...just look at what Doug Malone has done with a motley crew on the OLine! Jeff Tedford is WAY better than this, but he's to blame for allowing this mess to occur and then maintain itself!