Riders 24 - Lions 21, Post-Game Stats and Comments

[Hambone]

I told my buddy the game will probably come down with the Lions having an opportunity to win but they blow it. Unfortunately I was right. Didn't think Lulay had a good night. Too many of his passes were skimming the surface of the turf or too high. Now we know why Kevin Elliott was previously cut by the Riders. He couldn't catch a beach ball tonight.

Elliott never played for the Riders. Collins did though.

[dodger]

An average team that made too many mistakes got beat by an average team that made less mistakes. I don't think BC or Riders are going anywhere in the playoffs this year.

Early in the season we had more than one running play now I guess they lost those pages of the play book. So so predictable, hand the ball off and run up the middle. That really works well when you go to a double tight end and there is so many bodies in the box there is no chance to go more than a couple of yards.

Not the season I was hoping for but I hope they at least entertain for the remainder of the year.

[maxlion]

I am not surprised that we lost. Rather, I am surprised that we were in the game to the end, mostly thanks to the defense playing a strong game for the third game in a row (how long has it been since I have been able to say that?).

The Lions are not far behind other teams in talent and coaching, but we are behind enough that we will lose more close ones than we win. I don't think that there is any area where our talent is best in the league. Too many of our key players are getting older (i.e., Arseneaux, Olafioye, Lulay, Willis) and, while still pretty good, are not as good as they once were.

I don't see any advantage in Wally stepping aside mid-season. The players are still playing hard, and the games are still competitive. Maybe Kent Austin could step in and light a fire under the team, but I don't see anyone else who is available and could feasibly make a difference.

I was surprised at the gamble with 30 seconds left. It was over a yard and, even if they had made it, by the time they get the short yardage team off the field and line up again with the clock running, they would probably only have one play left before lining up for the field goal anyways. And the offense was not sharp and the chances of running two successful plays (gamble plus another play) wasn't particularly high. 53 yards is a longshot, but it is a makeable field goal in BC Place. I would have kicked.

[Rammer]

As for the game itself, I guess Wally will justify trying for third and almost two was a daring move...only if you don't play it with the most conservative play in the book Wally...really a QB sneak with the game/season on the line. I give up.

You can blame Wally for deciding to gamble on that play but the blame for play selection lands squarely on Jarious.

While that is a possibility, I just think that Wally's fingerprints are all over that game decision. The play itself screams Wally IMO, going for it showing an aggressive "new" attitude and then the most conservative smash mouth play to get that yardage. Even post game he placed the blame on the players. An indication that the proper plays were in place, just not executed. Now if that was JJ's call, he is either play calling to keep Wally in his corner, or he doesn't have game management ability ala Wally.

Another Wally game decision that I will question is the FG by the Riders that Lauther pulled up with a calf muscle, why didn't Wally take advantage and have the Riders KO on that instead of starting at the 35?

[SammyGreene]

Plenty of great posts here after another kick-in-the-gut loss. Maybe it would feel better if the Lions were just completely outclassed in these last 3 losses.
But they weren’t and really the league is loaded with mediocrity this season. That’s what probably makes it hurt even more.

Why on earth didn’t Wally at least ask for a measurement on the 3rd and short play at the end? It was more closer to 2 yds than 1 and a measurement would at least let them contemplate a FG attempt rather than the typical 3rd down sneak. That play had little chance.

But I was even more steamed watching the offence do absolutely nothing with the Orange INT. He has been outstanding of late.
5 mins to go, a huge turnover and the ball at midfield. Good teams make opponents pay for that.

Sure it would have been nice to see more QB pressure and maybe Rose knockdown those 2 long passes he was in position to do so but this is on an offence that has produced 9 pts combined in 2 weeks of 2nd half football.

This seems like a team that is pressing which might be a product of a coach that has them wound up very tight.
Elliott stepped into the line-up a few weeks ago and caught everything. Now he seems to be dropping everything. Even Lulay is regressing. Ball distribution is not what it was when he initially replaced Jennings. How can he not target Vandervoort once in 3 quarters playing field side WR after he replaced Manny? Even if he isn't open at least try and keep the secondary somewhat honest with a throw at his ankles.

Both Travis and Jennings are on expiring contracts. When do you take a look at Jennings again for at least a series or two to see if the 2016 version might show up in a relief role? Who will be this team’s starting QB in 2019?

It the midway point of this season that is full of disappointment and just creating more questions moving forward.

[Figaro]

That was a great game.

Unfortunately, it did not turn out so well for us even though I believe some aspects of our play were excellent.

I really liked the effort of Foster. I think he probably played his best game for the Lions last night and one of the best games by any linebacker in the league. I don't know his stats but he always seemed to be involved in the play. Our best player on defense this year - review the body of work and you will agree he is playing at an all-star level.

I still think we made a mistake in passing on Carter. I said so last week and the week he was cut. Many on the list were concerned with attitude but I was looking at our receiving corp and noting that they were not instilling fear in the hearts of our opponent's defensive backs. Other than Manny and Burnham there is nothing scary in our receiving corps and I think we saw that more in this game. With Carter signing in Toronto this argument is now moot - but what needs to be addressed - especially with the injury to Manny - we need better receivers. Elliott, Watson, and Collins dropped more passes than they caught. Hervy has done a great job so far - I hope he and his team can find some speed and ability in the next round of NFL cuts.

Special teams need to rethink their blocking and strategy on our returns. Yes, Rainey did break off one big return but every other opportunity was stifled. The difference? Rainey makes his best returns when he runs towards the ball to receive it whether in the air or off a bounce. With his forward motion and quick first move, he is gone. However, when he has to stand and wait for the ball to come straight down to him he is in trouble. After his one return, Sask kicked the ball a mile high with the announcers commenting on how high the kicks were and as Rainey waited the Sask tacklers were salivating. His return game is coming forward with speed and making that first and second little move. I like Reinbolt but he has to draw something up because I am sure all ST coaches have noticed this.

I thought our O-line played well - and I didn't know about Husbands injury, although; there were a few plays in watching him get up from the pile there seemed to be something wrong. If his shoulder was that bad he should be on the bench - you can't put an injured player on the O-line. It is the roughest and toughest place on the field. Those guys take a beating from some very big powerful guys and need to be healthy. Mistake on Wally's part and thanks to Blitz for bringing his injury into the light. Still, our line played well especially when you consider the career Hughes is having this year. I am really impressed with Figueroa - seldom beat. After three penalties in the first half on Foucault, I got to thinking - where is Vaillancourt? He started the season on the six-game injury list. He is a guard - in my opinion, Foucault is too long - he looks like more of a tackle.

I still can't figure out why we abandon the run game in the second half. Some more variations - tosses, sweeps etc rather than exclusively between the tackles. Staying with the run makes second and short a whole new game.

Other players of note from this game? Lokombo. This guy just gets better and better. What is going to happen when Solly and Awe are ready? Lokombo is going to be hard to get off the field if he continues to grow as he has in the last number of games - star in the making if not already arrived.

Unsung players? Perhaps Louis, McLennan, and Coleman - especially Coleman. He is beginning to remind me of Ty Williams (one of my all-time favorite Lions) at tackle - often double teamed and in on a lot of tackles when they tried Mason up the middle. He needs to improve on pushing the O-line back into the quarterback - but his better games are before him.

As for the last play of the game? When they lined up to get the third down, I was wondering why all the scramble - they did not look set and I think they had the time to get set. Also, it was more of a two-yard gamble than a one-yard - so why call a plunge by a cold quarterback over an injured center into the teeth of the defense - kind of easy to predict what would happen. I watched that young Pipkin earlier this week slip down the line and run in the end zone off tackle. Why take Lulay out of the game for this play. He was the short yardage QB for Jennings so he knows the feel for finding the yardage in close. If they made the first down, how much time would be left to use? They could have kicked the 53 yarder. Long has done it before and yet last game Buono made him punt rather than try a 53 yarder in a game in which he already made one. Strange.

Tough loss - especially giving Sask 10 points off turnovers. Hang onto the ball and we would have beaten Ottawa and Sask and be sitting at 5 and 4 one game out of second place!!!!

[JohnnyMusso]

Pauser said:

Well if you don't listen to any of the outlets where the Lions give their interviews then that's on you, not them, for not knowing who the President is. It's like claiming no one knows who Homer Simpson is because that show hasn't done a good job of introducing him to the audience, and then admitting you don't watch TV at all. (for the record, I can't stand Don Taylor and Moj when they talk hockey...both are homers who aren't capable of critical analysis. Moj is great for football though. Sekeres and Price, and the Kurtenbloggers are the only tolerable show hosts, IMO).

Who cares if I did not remember the President? Since when does a Lions fan has to. I forgot, not a big deal to me. I get my CFL news from the CFL main site, TSN and the twitter accounts of Farhan L and Lowell Ulrich. TSN 1040 rarely talks about the Lions and the CFL. I used to listen to it a lot, but recently when I turn it on it all about the Canucks or the NFL. In the car, when I go to work, I listen to my music cds for find that way more enjoyable and relaxing than radio shows. The only time I listen to 1040 or 650 is when a big sports story breaks. I occasionally listen to both but after 5 or 10 minutes I lose interest, for the shows are boring. I forgot about Sekeres and Price; they are good. I used to like Pratt and Taylor - they were a good team and why they never reunited them I will never know. I disagree about the Kurtenbloggers. Often they are trying to be funny and telling stupid jokes which brings down the quality of the show in my opinion. They try to appeal to younger audiences who like their sense of humour, which I don't for I am 55 and don't care for them, never have. I think David Pratt is better, but his partner Brother Jake is terrible. The Kurtenbloggers mocked the hiring of Ed Hervey because Buono was the VP and coach and they made fun of the Lions marketing plan - The Beach Party Zone . They are not CFL fans and the worst sports hosts I have ever heard. I may be old school, but I feel Dan Russell was the best sports host and had the best sports show ever for he focused on sports and not on gimmicks, bathroom humour, polls, etc, on his show.

[JohnnyMusso]

As for my statement Buono has too much power. Let me rephrase that; he has too much influence and a reputation of being best coach ever or one of the best, that he will never be fired even if they had gone 0 and 9 to start the season. Also every decision Hervey makes I am sure he consults with Wally to get his opinion. And like others have said or believe, Wally will recommend Washington to be Lions next coach. I hope Ed will not be afraid to reject that advice and hire someone else hopefully Claybrooks out of Calgary.

For the rest of the year, I think all personal decisions will be a joint decision between Ed and Wally.

[JohnnyMusso]

Figaro said:

That was a great game.

I disagree with that. It was close, but poorly played by both teams. In the 2nd half Riders outscored the Lions 4 to 3. That is hardly a great game, for both offences could do next to nothing. A great game would have a lot more scoring and touchdowns. Scoring only 3 points in the 2nd half is not good enough especially at home.

[Blitz]

The way CFL offences deal with third and short drives me crazy. Tom Brady still runs his own quarterback sneaks but almost every CFL team uses a backup quarterback.

Even worse, the backfield is empty and every player, fan, etc, knows its going to be a sneak. The defensive tackles are huge now and defenses will sometimes try to guess the snap count, which is usually on the first count.

In the 'good old days' at least defenses didn't know if the quarterback was going to sneak it or hand it off to the tailback, who lined up closer to the line of scrimmage for this type of play. The fullback was used as a lead blocker at times. The tailback could leap over the line or jump cut it outside. The quarterback could also fake it to the back and throw it to the tailback or to a tight end (which was sometimes an extra offensive lineman or defensive lineman) but could catch.

The play now is so predictable. For less than a yard, it still works most of the time but its often too close. For more than a yard, I think offensive coordinators need to stop being copycats and go back to the drawing board.

maxlion wrote that he would have kicked the field goal. With Long's leg, its hard to dispute. If it was a yard or less, I would have gambled. On a yard and a half, it would have been a tough call but I certainly would not have run the quarterback sneak.

The clock would have been running after the successful sneak if we would have made it. Could we have gotten another play in and also got the field goal team in. Hard to say.

We used up 17 seconds at the end of a half on a second down call and never got the field goal team in a few games ago. Clock management has never been a strong suit with Wally.

Bigger picture - it doesn't look good right now, to say the least, but if the Riders loose two in a row and we win two in a row and we're right back in it. The Riders offence last night didn't look good at all either.

But there has to be some soul searching in this bye week. Wally kinda passed the buck onto Ed Hervey when he said he needs better players.

Other than a couple of NFL cuts coming in, that is a tough thing to do at this time of the season and those players would have to get up to speed. A couple of International receivers would be worth bringing in but other than that that, or a defensive back to say challenge Peters, who do you bring in and how can you use them.

What our Lions coaching staff needs to do during this bye week is to stop the blame game and start asking themselves what they can do to turn things around.

Wally may think he is coaching better than ever but unless he is willing to consider trying to do some things differently in the second half of this season, there will be future struggles.

Last season, with Jennings starting 14 games and Lulay 4 games, we averaged just slightly more than 26 points per game (while giving up the most sacks and pressures) and our offence was considered a disaster.

This season, our offence averaged 21 points per game with Jennings at quarterback and it has averaged less than 1 point more per game with Lulay at the controls. Niether has been able to do much this season in terms of getting points on the board.

That sends a message that we need to look at other areas of our offence for solutions. The running game would be a start. The improvement and success rate of our RPO plays (or not) would be another place to have a serious look.

We led the CFL in rushing in 2016, with basically the same offensive players except that our offensive line was mostly comprised of players playing new positions and we had a rookie right tackle in Antonio Johnson. Our offensive line is better than 2016. We should be able to run the football much better than we have so far in 2018. We're 8th in rushing yards.

Wally has to stop letting his ego rule his thinking and instead try some different approaches. He may be the CFL's winningest coach but his record over his last 5 years of coaching has been average at best, he missed the playoffs last year, he is 3-6 and he has lost 16 of his last 21 games.

You would think that would at least get him to lower his self-opinion a little but it certainly hasn't by his recent comments.

Wallly is really at a point at this juncture that he really doesn't have much to lose this season by changing some things, strategy wise.

[TheLionKing]

I agree with Blitz regarding 3rd down. It drives me crazy. Don't see the reason why inserting the backup to run the dive play. No creativity. Everybody in the stadium knows what's coming. Remember the old days of Jim Evenson, Sean Millington, Robert Drummond and John Henry White.

[Blitz]

Plenty of great posts here after another kick-in-the-gut loss. Maybe it would feel better if the Lions were just completely outclassed in these last 3 losses.
But they weren’t and really the league is loaded with mediocrity this season. That’s what probably makes it hurt even more.

Why on earth didn’t Wally at least ask for a measurement on the 3rd and short play at the end? It was more closer to 2 yds than 1 and a measurement would at least let them contemplate a FG attempt rather than the typical 3rd down sneak. That play had little chance.

But I was even more steamed watching the offence do absolutely nothing with the Orange INT. He has been outstanding of late.
5 mins to go, a huge turnover and the ball at midfield. Good teams make opponents pay for that.

Sure it would have been nice to see more QB pressure and maybe Rose knockdown those 2 long passes he was in position to do so but this is on an offence that has produced 9 pts combined in 2 weeks of 2nd half football.

This seems like a team that is pressing which might be a product of a coach that has them wound up very tight.

Elliott stepped into the line-up a few weeks ago and caught everything. Now he seems to be dropping everything. Even Lulay is regressing. Ball distribution is not what it was when he initially replaced Jennings. How can he not target Vandervoort once in 3 quarters playing field side WR after he replaced Manny? Even if he isn't open at least try and keep the secondary somewhat honest with a throw at his ankles.

Both Travis and Jennings are on expiring contracts. When do you take a look at Jennings again for at least a series or two to see if the 2016 version might show up in a relief role? Who will be this team’s starting QB in 2019?

It the midway point of this season that is full of disappointment and just creating more questions moving forward.

You hit a lot of nails on the head Sammy!!

Some of the stuff that has happened so far this season is enough to almost drive a die hard Leos fan crazy.

Speaking of being driven crazy, for too many seasons, we had Wally repeatedly saying "We just gotta execute' and the players picked up on it somehow and that is almost what every player said before each game and after "We gotta execute, we didn't execute', we 'executed better this game' etc.

It was worse than listening to the radio with Garth Brooks singing " Cause I've got friends in low places, Where the whiskey drowns and the beer chases my blues away and I'll be okay" about 100 times a day until it felt like a nail being driven into my head.

Now Wally seems to have gotten rid of the 'we just gotta execute' mantra and its now "We gotta make plays". Now he seems to have hypnotized the players again and before every game, its "We gotta make plays" and after the game "We just didn't make enough plays' or the opposition 'made more plays than we did'.

I would love a new mantra to arrive called "Our coaches gotta coach".

Now I'm going down to the Oasis to 'drink my blues away'.

[Blitz]

The key to the second half of this season begins with a new mantra

"Our Coaches gotta coach" With this mantra, will be added 'Every CFL game comes down to 5 or 6 coaching calls per game". "Whichever coaching staff does a better job with those coaching calls usually wins the game".

I'm so tired of the narcissism that constantly projects blame on our players as the only reason for losing. They share some of the blame. Our coaching staff also needs to share blame.

Narcissists are gifted blame shifters. Sometimes they are overt about it but mostly its subtle, multi-faceted, and repetitive.

Have our coaches made mental errors this season? Have they not called time outs when they should have? Have they lacked focus? Have they missed challenge calls that should have been made. Has there been confusion on the sidelines? Have things always been smooth and poised over there? Nope. But you would swear by the blame game, that EVERTHING is on the players.

From we need to 'execute better' to 'our players need to make plays' to our players need to reduce their 'mistakes' and 'mental errors' the entire onus is on the players as it always has been. The most recent one by Wally after the game upped the anti "When you can't make plays, you must not have the right guys', while also subtly shifting some of the blame onto Ed Hervey

How about "If you dont' win, you must not have the right coaches'.

Its really a form of brainwashing and narcissists are so gifted at it mostly because its a skill they have perfected because they have done it all of their life.

If you are not careful, you'll think everything is your fault and lose your confidence in yourself, just like our Leos players seem to be experiencing. Repeated blame shifting can make anyone start believing that everthing is their fault and the other person is blameless, no matter how much it really is that other person's fault. The constant repetition of blame shifting is a form of conditioning.

Wally is such a master at this, I'm almost afraid to watch "Wally Wednesdays' in case I get hypnotized.

The good news is that for whatever reason, the incredibly repetitive 'we gotta execute better' went the way of the do do bird. But new ones always emerge with the same goal....its always your fault, the onus is always only on you, and I am wonderful (or a legend )

[Blitz]

Jeremiah Johnson from 3 Down Nation

From the heart: the most obvious attribute of the Lions’ most productive offensive performer is the consistency demonstrated by tailback Jeremiah Johnson, who was just as emotional after the loss as he was prior to kickoff.

Johnson expressed concern during the practice week that the offence might become lackadaisical and simply show up to cash paycheques.

Ask a guy for a critique moments after he watched quarterback Cody Fajardo fail to pick up the yardage needed to maintain the Lions final possession and you don’t have to guess the tenor of his remarks.
Of course he wanted the ball on third down when the Lions needed to maintain their chance for Ty Long to try a potential sixth field goal or perhaps even more.

But Johnson said the Lions would be very wise to do some quiet soul- searching during their third and final bye of the schedule.

“I just think if we look in the mirror and ask yourself ‘what do you want to do with this season’?” Johnson said on TSN 1040 after the game.

“I just think honestly being vocal and cursing players out isn’t the way to go. Nobody wants nobody yelling in their face especially when pride is involved.”

[South Pender]

Interesting comments from Jeremiah Johnson. I wouldn't have thought that the players would be lackadaisical after their loss to Toronto. That's an attitude that more usually accompanies a string of wins. Instead, I'd have thought they'd be pretty focused on getting back to winning. Some on this board have suggested that the Lions players were too tightly wound. I'm not sure about that either. What did appear to me, however, was that their minds weren't in the game--for whatever reason. Dropped passes, in the numbers that they occurred--along with fumbles--suggest to me distraction. Whether that's really on Buono and/or the other coaches or on the players themselves is harder to determine.

I've mentioned elsewhere that I don't think the talent level of the Lions players is quite as high as some here seem to think. On paper, perhaps, the O-line may seem talented, but it was hard to see any evidence of this in the Riders game. They blocked poorly, with our leading rusher (who doesn't need much of a hole to bang out 5-6 yards) averaging only 3.7 yds./carry.

I'd like to see some NFL cuts brought in in the next two weeks. There will be a large number of talented players cut in that period, and a couple of receivers who can actually catch should be available, and some D-linemen who were almost good enough to make an NFL team may show up. We could use both, as well as some others.