The Buck Starts Here

[Rammer]

Good for Wally to have had the foresight to reach out to Buck even before Travis went down. That shows GM moxie. And good for Wally for bringing in Chris Wilson and Stefan Logan, two guys that were available and could help the team and definitely have. When he couldn't fill the holes on the O-line through a dearth of available players, he did the next best thing and tried to shore up lesser weaknesses elsewhere on the team. Wally is not "past it." He was unwilling to give up on this season--even though many fans were, particularly when Travis went down--and tried to provide a competitive team for the fans right to the end.

And maybe we should even give an attaboy to Jacques (hard as that may be for some) for designing plays for Stefan and getting him really involved, and for putting Buck in when he was needed. We won a game, and the fans were thrilled.

Hold up on the JC compliments, both the plays that Logan broke and Buck blocked on were not designed to go down the sideline, they were a meant to go into the opening on the line, while not JC's fault that our OL can't open a beer, he still calls them. Logan did what he was asked to do and then he ran where there was daylight. Much like his last time around, Logan can make a running game out of JC's play calling. Then at a point, the Esks were giving up yardage wherever the Lions wanted them to, that was good play calling, but also a beaten team. So jury is still out on JC, although there were a couple of wrinkles to the running game thrown in, which lets face it, he was in a desperate situation and has to come up with a new design.

[InUrFace]

SouthPender....First off....Wally never brought Logan or Wilson in...He may of signed them...but they both called Wally. They realized the team needed help. If they never called..what then...what would Wally do...hmmm nada Wally however was smart to bring in Buck. thats all the credit he gets.. As for Chap..his plays failed in the first half. When Buck came in...Buck made it happen ...but with broken plays..not actual plays and schemes that were executed by Chap. I do give credit where credit is due....The run game was there and change of direction for the run game. Bringing in Logan and Harris to change it up was nice touch. Oline look much better...but still can improve. Still if it wasnt for the D...LaRose ...coming up big...I have a feeling we would of lost. With that being said. Alot of work needs to be done here.

[South Pender]

SouthPender....First off....Wally never brought Logan or Wilson in...He may of signed them...but they both called Wally.

He still gets credit--in my book anyway. He may not have known of their availability until they called. The important thing is he saw a way to improve the team late in the season, and he took it. If they had never called? Well, maybe Wally had his sensors out with respect to other players. We don't know and shouldn't be making suppositions about Wally and his motives. There's too much of this, in my opinion, on this forum. We presume motives, malfeasance, etc., when we have no evidence whatsoever to support them. How do you know that Wally was doing nothing to strengthen the running game and the D-line independently of Logan and Wilson?

As for Chapdelaine, it seems that it's just not in the DNA of some forumers to give him credit for anything. This strikes me as unfair. Let's agree that he hasn't been purrfect as an OC, and that, maybe, someone else could have done better with the players we had, with the injuries we suffered, with the relative strengths of our opponents, and with the myriad of circumstances--many beyond anyone's control--that determine the success of a football season. However, when something good does happen with our offense, I believe that some credit has to accrue to Chaps. To say that the offense was successful last night not because of anything Chaps did, but in spite of it, suggests an unwillingness to change one's view one scintilla (a tiny scintilla!) in the face of contrary evidence--a high level of cognitive rigidity. Not to mention that, in my opinion, it's grossly unfair. Can we not give credit (just a little, guys) when it's due--or is it that, with Chaps, it's never due?

[Blitz]

SouthPender....First off....Wally never brought Logan or Wilson in...He may of signed them...but they both called Wally.

He still gets credit--in my book anyway. He may not have known of their availability until they called. The important thing is he saw a way to improve the team late in the season, and he took it. If they had never called? Well, maybe Wally had his sensors out with respect to other players. We don't know and shouldn't be making suppositions about Wally and his motives. There's too much of this, in my opinion, on this forum. We presume motives, malfeasance, etc., when we have no evidence whatsoever to support them. How do you know that Wally was doing nothing to strengthen the running game and the D-line independently of Logan and Wilson?

As for Chapdelaine, it seems that it's just not in the DNA of some forumers to give him credit for anything. This strikes me as unfair. Let's agree that he hasn't been purrfect as an OC, and that, maybe, someone else could have done better with the players we had, with the injuries we suffered, with the relative strengths of our opponents, and with the myriad of circumstances--many beyond anyone's control--that determine the success of a football season. However, when something good does happen with our offense, I believe that some credit has to accrue to Chaps. To say that the offense was successful last night not because of anything Chaps did, but in spite of it, suggests an unwillingness to change one's view one scintilla (a tiny scintilla!) in the face of contrary evidence--a high level of cognitive rigidity. Not to mention that, in my opinion, it's grossly unfair. Can we not give credit (just a little, guys) when it's due--or is it that, with Chaps, it's never due?

Because it they did it would almost kill them...

I just posted comments on this subject in the post game comments thread so I won't repeat them here. Its a simple concept. If our offence plays well then the players did it in spite of Chap. If the offence doesn't play well its because Chap sucks. The concept is easy to understand. The fancy psychological term for it is called cognitive dissonance. A second terminology, often used by men in reference to their wives, is called wanting your cake and eating it.

I really don't care. I'm happy for the win and the good offensive performance. Too bad about DeMarco. We really should have taken him out last game. His confidence was completely shot. He was in a very tough position as a rookie starter with such little playing experience and feeling a ton of pressure. Good to see him come back into the game in the 4th quarter and play much better.

Pierce was not ready to play when he first got here. Our offence has really changed a lot from the time he was released. It took time for him to learn it. He still will be learning it. He did a lot of good things out there. More importantly he looked very confident with his increased practice reps than his first few opportunities. Pierce took half the practice reps at quarterback this week. His experience really showed.

We have to have a healthy Pierce for the playoff game. We need to use him wisely against Calgary and he needs to be wise himself with his play. Giving DeMarco reps against Calgary would also be wise and trying to continue to build his confidence again. Buck can get hurt at any time in a game. We know his injury record. Having both as ready as possible and healthy for the playoff game is very important.

Buck has given us a lot of new hope for that playoff game. Good to read so many positive comments on Lionbackers about our win. It was starting to read like a wake before this game. A win, a good offensive performance, and especially a great running game performance was what was needed.

[pennw]

Still if it wasnt for the D...LaRose ...coming up big...I have a feeling we would of lost.

I recall the D giving up a big TD on the first play of the game , is that on the Offense ? And the D allowed the Esks to get 15 point lead before starting to clamp down . They gave up almost 400 passing yards , about 150 yards in the first quarter , so in my book they get no pass if the Offense doesn't get one too . Both O and D sucked bad to start the game , the D just as much , before both got going . The O due to Peirce and Logan . Demarco clearly looked shell shocked and afraid to throw a pass even when he had good protection . This no doubt was lingering effects of having been left in too long when all was going wrong for him last game .

[JohnHenry]

DeMarco should still start the next game with Buck coming off the bench. Seemed to work last game. Hopefully Travis will be OK to play in the playoffs.

[Blitz]

Bad start offensively but I'll take 420 yards of offence and a running game that was very impressive for the first time this season.

What I find interesting is that Dave Dickenson gets a lot of credit for being a very good offensive coordinator while having a very good offensive line and the best running tailback in the league. When Cornish breaks tackles, jukes, or makes plays on his own we don't just say that Dickenson did nothing and it Cornish did it all by himself.

I really liked what we did with our running game offensively. I like that we mostly use Logan on first down and Harris on second down, utilziing their strengths but that we also changed it up. I liked our different motion at times and I liked that we used more trap blocking. The formation with a lineman lined up in the slot and either cross blocking, trap blocking or pulling was interesting. The zone read will work much better on first down with Logan's ability to cut back on the backside of the play. Pierce makes the zone read work much better as well.

Buck missed Harris a few times wide open but he also got him the ball in the passing game in good spots. Harris running for an average of 6.9 yards per carry on 11 carries was a huge improvement and there were a lot of offensive factors that enabled that increased rate of production and too detailed to go into.

I understand your reasoning John Henry but I would start Buck next game with some clear direction of playing a conservative game in terms of his body and trying to avoid injury and then I would give the ball to DeMarco for the second half.

[Blitz]

Interesting comments by Stefan Logan in this Beamish article.

Logan and Buck played together in 2008.

It was also great to see the exuberance of the defense when LaRose got his interception and how that play not only seemed to spark our offence but also how much difference it made to LaRose's play in the game.

Confidence can really have a snowball affect.

Pierce shows he could be the difference in Lions' playoff run
By Mike Beamish, Vancouver Sun October 26, 2013 3:19 PM

His last meaningful minutes as a CFL quarterback came on August 24, with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

So when the B.C. Lions finally took the shackles off Buck Pierce, there was no holding him back.

Inserted into Friday’s game against the Edmonton Eskimos in the second quarter, it took a while for Pierce to find his range, but when he did he took the Lions and their fans on a wonderful journey of self-discovery.

Good karma was finally back in the Lions’ den as Pierce threw for three touchdowns and ran for another in a 43-29 win over the Eskimos at BC Place that may have raised the Lions’ undersized expectations for the playoffs.

While the game was not of significance to their standing in the CFL’s West Division -- the Lions are locked into third place -- it was soul-affirming in the likely absence of injured starter Travis Lulay (shoulder) for the rest of the season.

The only question is, why did it take the Lions so long to turn to the “proven veteran quarterback” (GM Wally Buono’s words) who played with the team from 2005-2009?

Obtained Sept. 8 in a trade with the Blue Bombers, Pierce had make only token appearances before Friday’s game. He had thrown just 13 passes in mop-up duty for sophomore Thomas DeMarco and hadn’t been used at all in losses to the Stampeders (Oct. 11) and Roughriders (Oct. 19).

“Buck did an excellent job,” said running back Logan, who had 267 all-purpose yards in his second game since rejoining the team. “He got us all fired up. He moved the ball so fast and sweet. The B.C. Lions got two good players back again (Pierce and Logan). I thought I did pretty good tonight.”

Indeed, he did.

With the Lions trailing 12-1, Pierce handed the ball to Logan, who bobbled it momentarily, then turned upfield and left a trail of tacklers in his wake to score a 54-yard touchdown that re-ignited the offence.

Pierce, with a history of putting himself in harm’s way to make a play, threw a key block near the goal line that allowed Logan to do a forward flip into the end zone.

"I've had so many knocks on me for doing stuff like that throughout my career,” Pierce explained. “But I'm a football player. I've been in this league for nine years. If they're expecting me to change now, it's not going to happen."

Remarkably, it was the first career rushing touchdown for Logan as a B.C. Lion. In 2008, the lightning bug back from South Dakota ran for 889 yards and a 7.3-yard average as a CFL rookie. But Logan didn’t score a rushing TD that season before leaving for a four-year career in the National Football League.

The Lions re-signed him on Oct. 15 after Logan spent a 10-month hiatus away from football, searching in vain for another NFL landing spot. He played with the Detroit Lions in 2012.

“Knowing the scheme a little better, after a second week of practice, makes it easier for you,” said Logan, who had 23 touches in his first start as a Lion, against the Roughriders a week earlier. “It allowed me to just get out there, fly around and have a lot of fun. We want to show the fans what the B.C. Lions are all about.

“When Buck was about to go out there on the field, I told him, ‘Hey, you and me were here together in 2008. Let’s make our home debut a good one.’ I added a little spark to the team. He went out there and did it. He was making plays with his arm, making plays with his legs. That’s what you want from a quarterback.”

With the Lions trailing 15-8 after Logan’s touchdown, Pierce put on a swashbuckling display of the Buck of yore. He ran for a first down, never bothering to slide, before sidearming a pass to Shawn Gore, then scrambling under pressure to thread a sideline pass to Courtney Taylor.

He finished off the sequence by flipping a shovel pass to Andrew Harris, while Pierce was being sacked, for an eight-yard touchdown.

“It’s about belief and hope,” said head coach Mike Benevides. “He (Pierce) cares, he understands, he’s matured. He’s a professional, he’s had longevity in this league and you can’t change who he is. He was running around, making plays happen. He was making the passes I wanted to see.”

In the second half, Pierce found a streaking Manny Arceneaux on a 43-yard touchdown strike, later threw another two-yard score to Harris and ran one in himself from two yards out to put the Lions ahead 36-15. He finished the game with 11 completions on 14 pass attempts for 141 yards and three scores. Pierce also rushed for 18 yards on three carries and a touchdown.

Thomas DeMarco, the provisional starter, re-entered the game late in the fourth quarter and finished off a seven-play, 83-yard drive with a three-yard touchdown toss to Arceneaux.

Logan ended with 121 rushing yards on 10 carries -- the first 100-yard rushing game by a Lion since July 30. It helped that the Eskimos are the CFL’s weakest team against the rush, allowing opponents an average of 137.6 yards before Friday’s game. Still, the Lions’ 220 net rushing yards was an impressive total. B.C. had 93 in a 35-14 defeat to the Roughriders last Sunday and just 56 in a 40-26 loss to the Stamps the week before that.

“He’s (Logan) a very shifty running back, very explosive,” said safety J.R. LaRose. “He’s really given us a different dimension.”

While it was Pierce and Logan who fueled the fire, it was LaRose who provided the spark. His diving, second-quarter interception to snare a deflected pass from Mike Reilly to Adarius Bowman had a ripple effect along the Lions’ sideline. It was LaRose’s first career interception in his 110th start in the CFL.

“What you saw was a tremendous amount of joy for J.R.,” Benevides said. “A lot has been made of the fact he’s been shut out (interceptions) throughout this career. The players like him. They really care for him. The fact that he got that play, there was a lot of exuberance. After that, offensively we were pretty damn strong.”

[Toppy Vann]

DeMarco should still start the next game with Buck coming off the bench. Seemed to work last game. Hopefully Travis will be OK to play in the playoffs.

Blitz makes a good call on this.

I think we have to factor in that this Lions DEF was flat to start and Moj down on the sideline replacing Rintoul who was doing play by play said that until the INT by Larose the Lion bench was DEAD. It would have gone back to DEAD if we had more of the same OFF led by DeMarco.

EDIT to add credence to this from LU's story:

On the next snap, Stefan Logan made 54 yards out of a broken play for a touchdown, with Pierce leading the way with a killer block on Aaron Grymes 30 yards downfield.

“That was huge,” said Adam Bighill.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

“That’s not something he has to do, given his history,” said Solomon Elimimian. “That’s what has been missing the last three games, that emotion. Buck helped us with that.”

Just doing what comes naturally, said Pierce, who threw a similar downfield block on a Logan run in the second half.

I think the entire team is not inspired by the situation at QB with DeMarco and no running and Buck's improv and good play and great leadership and the running game pumped up their OL - Buck said he fed off the OL emotion.

To start DeMarco next week would be a bad signal to the team and not help Buck as he needs more reps in games.

Chris Burns on the post game show said he really doesn't know Buck but parallels Buck's presence in the huddle yesterday with Danny McManus and how you listen to that guy and feed off his leadership and confidence - words to that effect.

[mightybuck]

Good game Buck

[JohnHenry]

DeMarco should still start the next game with Buck coming off the bench. Seemed to work last game. Hopefully Travis will be OK to play in the playoffs.

Blitz makes a good call on this.

I think we have to factor in that this Lions DEF was flat to start and Moj down on the sideline replacing Rintoul who was doing play by play said that until the INT by Larose the Lion bench was DEAD. It would have gone back to DEAD if we had more of the same OFF led by DeMarco.

Buck played great coming off the bench in relief. His confidence should be at a high. But there is no guarantee Buck will play as well with the added pressure of being the starter. DeMarco's success in the 4th Q also should have his confidence on the upswing. So we should have two confident QB's for next game.

DeMarco's now knows that if he screws up, the fate of the entire team isn't solely on his back. That should relieve some of the pressure and allow him to play with more confidence and spontaneity. The risk in starting Buck is that if he falters, we could have two QB's with diminished confidence again. Then who would you start in the playoff game?

So that's why I'd start DeMarco next game, with it pre-determined Buck will be inserted in the 2nd Q or 2nd H, depending on how well DeMarco plays. If Thomas falters, we still have a confident QB to come off the bench, like last game...with Thomas knowing the plan was to get Buck into the game anyway and it wasn't just his performance which got him pulled.

[MexicoLionFan]

Bad start offensively but I'll take 420 yards of offence and a running game that was very impressive for the first time this season.

What I find interesting is that Dave Dickenson gets a lot of credit for being a very good offensive coordinator while having a very good offensive line and the best running tailback in the league. When Cornish breaks tackles, jukes, or makes plays on his own we don't just say that Dickenson did nothing and it Cornish did it all by himself.

I really liked what we did with our running game offensively. I like that we mostly use Logan on first down and Harris on second down, utilziing their strengths but that we also changed it up. I liked our different motion at times and I liked that we used more trap blocking. The formation with a lineman lined up in the slot and either cross blocking, trap blocking or pulling was interesting. The zone read will work much better on first down with Logan's ability to cut back on the backside of the play. Pierce makes the zone read work much better as well.

Buck missed Harris a few times wide open but he also got him the ball in the passing game in good spots. Harris running for an average of 6.9 yards per carry on 11 carries was a huge improvement and there were a lot of offensive factors that enabled that increased rate of production and too detailed to go into.

I understand your reasoning John Henry but I would start Buck next game with some clear direction of playing a conservative game in terms of his body and trying to avoid injury and then I would give the ball to DeMarco for the second half.

Blitz, while Cornish can break a tackle, its not really his forte...and most tackles that Cornish breaks are from undersized LBs or the secondary...Cornish RUNS INTO GAPING HOLES, and if you are not aware of this, just watch a CGY game...its not just against the Lions that he is doing this to...and as for CGY's OLine they are starting a rookie 3rd round draft pick at Centre, and are playing through 2 injuries on that line...the plain fact is that Dickenson sets his talent up for success...why do you think that the CGY offence can be "plug and play" with the QB, WR and OL positions and still produce huge yards??? Is Kevin Glenn suddenly a HOF QB...is Drew Tate??? And there's talk that their 3rd string QB, Mitchell, will be Ottawa's first choice...Ottawa's first choice should be Dave Dickenson...

As to the comments by you and SP about fans not giving Chaps his due, WE HAVE...usually after a gun has been put to his head to make basic, logical changes or else...but these fundamental changes go by the wayside so quickly for JC and soon we are right back to his brilliant, bullet proof offensive system...look no further than DeMarco...he started well because he was given a system to run that PROTECTED him as essentially a rookie QB...we won even though he threw for small yardage because he didn't turn the ball over...then for the next 3 games Chaps throws him to the wolves as our full fledge starter of the imperial flagship and he failed miserably...what confidence he had is LONG GONE, and now thank goodness for Buck. But Pierce succeeded Friday ONLY because Logan and Harris made those incredible, innovative runs, that scared the EDM defence...it gave Buck that extra second to find his receivers and make those throws...but if Buck didn't get that extra time (due to the unique INDIVIDUAL talents of Logan and Harris) Buck would have taken so big shots and then how would his game have looked???

That's why all this optimism about Buck going into the playoffs is questionable...because it hinges on JC being completely devoted to the running game, something he has NEVER shown us in a decade. Because if teams blitz Buck unmercifully in a playoff game, Buck won't make it past the first half...its really that simple...

I will give Chapdelaine all the credit in the world when he shows me he warrants it...I gave Wally credit Friday night, after ripping him for a month, because we don't win that game on Friday without Pierce, Logan and Wilson...whether they contacted him or not, Wally still spent the money and signed them...the only problem is that Wally did NOT address the areas that really needed addressing...

[Rammer]

With regards to the debate on Wally getting contacted by said players or not, I am sure from what I have seen written, it is his style to continue to check up on players that have gone south. That is smart business on his part and I can't see why it would be different for Logan and Wilson, which most likely the reason that BC was the first call.

[MexicoLionFan]

This is the hilarious thing about being rational...it means that at times you are complimentary of your team and at times you are critical...and if things don't change then the criticisms continue...then those that don't think with freedom of thought or expression label rational thinkers as "Haters" and make comments like, "if you don't like things here why don't you leave..." Childish beyond belief...the secret to life (you can all put down your Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer books now) is to LIVE IN THE MOMENT...thus all that matters is right now, not the past or the future...the future isn't written and doesn't exist, and yet people have made trillions of dollars in life predicting the future...a conundrum right? Explained by the fact that 99% of people on this planet experience the now by being totally disengaged from it...they live now by worrying about what has happened in their past and how it is going to impact their future...thus you get what you focus on, this is called the Law of Attraction and its the only "law" in the Universe...so by staying in "the now" means that anything is possible because nothing is "pre-written"...

So being critical of the Lions, or its GM, or even coaches means NOTHING in relation to being a "fan" of the team...it is simple commentary about what is happening in the present...and ultimately this is just a game meant for us to enjoy, and when it stops being entertaining, its time to turn something else on...at least with the Lions, when they have problems they have them in such a way that is very entertaining...the 3 ring circus kind. Loving Wally and Jacques no matter what sounds really nice but I don't think it is grounded very deeply in reality...

[Big Time]

If they even think about starting DeMarco ahead of Buck, they are flat out crazy. Lulay is still the starter so there is no real point in developing DeMarco any further. At this point, the Lions focus needs to be on the playoffs and Buck gives them a much better chance than DeMarco. They can't afford to go two and out through an entire quarter like DeMarco did on Friday.

That they would even consider not starting Buck at this point is just crazy and quite frankly, sounds like a load of BS coming out of the Lions coaching staff.