Question mark at pivot for Lions

[KnowItAll]

wish we still had reilly. lions Schneider.

[South Pender]

I suffered through 2 shoulder injuries to my throwing arm while I played and ended up having 2 surgeries to fix all of the problems when I stopped playing...what BCFAN said about the shoulder is very true...this is a very delicate joint, and with all injuries there is scar tissue, and unless you minimize the scar tissue, it can accumulate and literally interfere with your shoulder function and throwing motion...so for some here to speculate that Lulay's shoulder is fine, is just not accurate...clearly he is not the same QB since that Hamilton game, there is no doubt about it...the Lions don't want to admit it, and certainly a player won't admit it, but the fact remains, that Lulay simply does not have the same range of motion in his throwing arm and it has affected his game...I think that trying to bring back Travis this season is a huge risk to his future as a player. Lulay has now had 4 fairly serious injuries to his throwing shoulder, I had two...one year after I stopped playing football, I couldn't move my throwing arm more than 4 inches from my side...where Lulay's shoulder goes from here depends not only on it healing properly, but an immense amount of work by Travis and Physiotherapists to work on strengthening all of the secondary and tertiary muscles around the joint (let alone the large primary muscles)...because they are the key to that joint being strong enough to function normally again. This is long and painful work for Lulay, and simply can't afford any setbacks...and lets' face it...with the same OC and the same weak OLine, Travis will take hits if he returns to the lineup and to that shoulder...

This season should simply be ruled out for Lulay with the hope that he will be healed and strengthened enough next year to resume his career...DeMarco is a scrappy player and will give the Lions a decent chance at QB...but with the issues this team still has, and has NOT addressed, it won't be Quarterbacking that ends our hopes...there are major, fundamental problems with this team, in particular the offence, that must be addressed moving forward if the Lions wish to return as champions...

This really sounds dire. It sounds as though you believe that Lulay was sufficiently impaired as a result of last season's injury to be less effective as a passer this season (before the present injury). Now, with another shoulder injury, should we expect Lulay to be even less effective next year as a result of this season's injury added to last season's? (They happened at roughly the same time of the year each season.) If that's true, it would seem that Lulay simply has no future as a pro QB.

[pdxlion]

This really sounds dire. It sounds as though you believe that Lulay was sufficiently impaired as a result of last season's injury to be less effective as a passer this season (before the present injury). Now, with another shoulder injury, should we expect Lulay to be even less effective next year as a result of this season's injury added to last season's? (They happened at roughly the same time of the year each season.) If that's true, it would seem that Lulay simply has no future as a pro QB.[/quote]
Short answer - No. Last year had nothing to do with this year.

[Rammer]

wish we still had reilly. lions Schneider.

I really liked Reilly as well, but his contract was coming up, what are you going to do. It would have been a bold move to trade Lulay and then insert Reilly into the lineup as the starter, who still had the jury out on how he was going to perform as a starter at the time. It is the old a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush scenario. Unfortunate for the Lions was the timing of the Reilly contract, and if the Lions had been able to hold both QB's this season, one would be gone come the Ottawa expansion draft. So in essence the Lions would be in similar situation next season.

[JohnHenry]

wish we still had reilly. lions Schneider.

I really liked Reilly as well, but his contract was coming up, what are you going to do. It would have been a bold move to trade Lulay and then insert Reilly into the lineup as the starter, who still had the jury out on how he was going to perform as a starter at the time. It is the old a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush scenario. Unfortunate for the Lions was the timing of the Reilly contract, and if the Lions had been able to hold both QB's this season, one would be gone come the Ottawa expansion draft. So in essence the Lions would be in similar situation next season.

Reilly is entering his option year next season, so conceivably he could come back to B.C. in 2015. I'm sure the Esks will open the vault to try and re-sign Mike this off-season (i.e. $350,000 up from his current $250,000 max. salary). But this is probably moot, as once Travis is healthy he's a superior QB to Reilly.

[David]

I took a bit of flak on this board in the off-season (or at least raised some eyebrows) for having the temerity to suggest the Lions could have kept Reilly and traded Lulay. It would have been a bold move indeed, but one I also knew the franchise couldn't make....not with parting with Simon and Bruce, and then Lulay? No way.

Still, I do still really like Reilly as a QB. He's in a horrible system in Edmonton and I do question the merits of keeping him in the line-up with nothing to play for after suffering a concussion. I don't think he's been the same since it occured, and may have had his bell rung yet again last night on the Fraser sack. He's been a walking piñata most of the year.


DH

[Rammer]

wish we still had reilly. lions Schneider.

I really liked Reilly as well, but his contract was coming up, what are you going to do. It would have been a bold move to trade Lulay and then insert Reilly into the lineup as the starter, who still had the jury out on how he was going to perform as a starter at the time. It is the old a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush scenario. Unfortunate for the Lions was the timing of the Reilly contract, and if the Lions had been able to hold both QB's this season, one would be gone come the Ottawa expansion draft. So in essence the Lions would be in similar situation next season.

Reilly is entering his option year next season, so conceivably he could come back to B.C. in 2015. I'm sure the Esks will open the vault to try and re-sign Mike this off-season (i.e. $350,000 up from his current $250,000 max. salary). But this is probably moot, as once Travis is healthy he's a superior QB to Reilly.

I am pretty sure that Reilly was finishing his option year with the Lions, took the trade to Edmonton when he didn't have to, and is now in a new contract with Edmonton. His new contract would be based upon wining the starting role with the Esks, so mostly performance driven. He should be getting a healthy paycheque, not so much health though.

[DanoT]

I took a bit of flak on this board in the off-season (or at least raised some eyebrows) for having the temerity to suggest the Lions could have kept Reilly and traded Lulay. It would have been a bold move indeed, but one I also knew the franchise couldn't make....not with parting with Simon and Bruce, and then Lulay? No way.

Still, I do still really like Reilly as a QB. He's in a horrible system in Edmonton and I do question the merits of keeping him in the line-up with nothing to play for after suffering a concussion. I don't think he's been the same since it occured, and may have had his bell rung yet again last night on the Fraser sack. He's been a walking piñata most of the year.


DH

I also had a nagging feeling during the off season that Lions were going with the wrong QB in choosing Lulay over Reilly but realized that the circumstances pretty much dictated Lulay staying with the Lions and Reilly going to Esks.

I now have a nagging feeling that Lulay's chronic shoulder injury might shorten his career and it will be sooner rather than later. Chapdelaine is the anti QB whisperer and this does not help with DeMarco's development or Lulay's longevity.

While Wally is credited with discovering a lot of QB's over the years, most of it has been with Chaps as his OC and how many of those QBs have stayed with Wally/Chaps long term? How about NONE.

Wally has the reputation of releasing players prior to their "best before date" but not coaches. It is now well past the point of getting a new OC. It is time for Benevides to step up, put his stamp on the team and fire Chapedelaine at the end of the season. If the Lions don't do something about their complacent old boys club coaching staff for next year, then be prepared for for sub 20k crowds being the new norm. Vancouver is not Winnipeg or Edmonton and as such fans will not support a crappy offence that gets worse as the season progresses.

[Ravi]

Wally fell on his sword for Chapdelaine in Calgary back at the end of the 2002 season. I will believe that he will fire Chapdelaine only when I see it. There is an enormous amount of loyalty there.

[pennw]

But this is probably moot, as once Travis is healthy he's a superior QB to Reilly.

Actually the jury is still out on this . Lulay was great in 2011 but hasn't been the same since .
Here are Reilly's and Lulay's numbers this season so far :
Name Team Comp Att % Yards Long TD % Ints % Rating

Reilly, M EDM 280 466 60.1 3,836 59 22 4.7 16 3.4 87.9

Lulay, T BC 221 343 64.4 2,787 80 19 5.5 11 3.2 94.7

Lulay had the benefit of being on a better team and in a system much longer than Reilly . Reilly is in 3rd spot in the stats and Lulay is 4th .

[pennw]

Wally fell on his sword for Chapdelaine in Calgary back at the end of the 2002 season. I will believe that he will fire Chapdelaine only when I see it. There is an enormous amount of loyalty there.

Would not the decision to fire the OC be the responsibility of the HC rather than the GM ?

[KnowItAll]

But this is probably moot, as once Travis is healthy he's a superior QB to Reilly.

Actually the jury is still out on this . Lulay was great in 2011 but hasn't been the same since .
Here are Reilly's and Lulay's numbers this season so far :
Name Team Comp Att % Yards Long TD % Ints % Rating

Reilly, M EDM 280 466 60.1 3,836 59 22 4.7 16 3.4 87.9

Lulay, T BC 221 343 64.4 2,787 80 19 5.5 11 3.2 94.7

Lulay had the benefit of being on a better team and in a system much longer than Reilly . Reilly is in 3rd spot in the stats and Lulay is 4th .

if reilly survives, I believe he will go on to be the better QB. Seems he almost has a dunigan mentality. Hope it works out better for him. Damn I still miss dunigan playing.

[pennw]

if reilly survives, I believe he will go on to be the better QB. Seems he almost has a dunigan mentality. Hope it works out better for him. Damn I still miss dunigan playing.

Don't you mean if BOTH survive ?

[Ravi]

Wally fell on his sword for Chapdelaine in Calgary back at the end of the 2002 season. I will believe that he will fire Chapdelaine only when I see it. There is an enormous amount of loyalty there.

Would not the decision to fire the OC be the responsibility of the HC rather than the GM ?

Usually that is the case. Would Wally allow Benevides to axe Chapdelaine? Would Benevides want to axe a guy he has been working with for well over a decade?

[Blitz]

It was a very tough outing for DeMarco against Regina last Saturday but our Leos are going to continue to go with him as our starter and that makes sense.

Its a very steep learning curve for a quarterback. It takes time. The key is for DeMarco to eliminate the big mistakes. He has a very strong arm. He has a lot of tools and character.

What we have to hope for is that he can learn fast enough to be able to play well enough for us to go into Regina and win a playoff game. Our defense will have to play a great game in Regina but if DeMarco can improve enough over the next two games I still think we have good chance to come away with a victory.

Lions quarterback Thomas DeMarco trying to work through misakes

By Mike Beamish, Vancouver Sun October 20, 2013

REGINA — The rule of thumb is that you can’t judge a young quarterback after a handful of games. It usually takes a couple of years.

But breakouts do happen.

First-time starter Zach Collaros of the Argonauts bamboozled the B.C. Lions his first time out. Rookie Tanner Marsh of the Alouettes caught lightning in a bottle and did it to the Lions again, three weeks later.

Yet, under normal circumstances, there is no continual arc of sustained improvement. Struggles and regressions for a young quarterback are the norm, based on the laws of probability. Breakouts tend to herald a false spring.

Thomas DeMarco is a classic case of a player whose expectations, perhaps, are spinning a little out of control. After a 2-0 breakout as the replacement for injured Lions’ starter Travis Lulay, DeMarco has been at the helm for three straight losses, the latest being a 35-14 debacle Saturday at Mosaic Stadium against the Saskatchewan Roughriders. Eight turnovers, with DeMarco being the author of five of them, cost the Lions a chance to play host to a Canadian Football League West Division playoff game.

With two regular-season games remaining, the 9-7 Lions are stuck in third place with nowhere to go. Likely, they’re stuck with DeMarco for the rest of the season, too — unless Lulay’s injured right shoulder miraculously returns to full strength in 20 days’ time, the date of the Nov. 10 West Division semifinal in Regina or Calgary.

Of course, Lulay’s time frame is more compact than that. He must be up and running by Nov. 1, the Lions’ final regular-season game, against the Calgary Stampeders at BC Place. You don’t reintroduce a player for the playoffs unless you’re certain of his soundness and sharpness.

All of which means the Lions will be riding their little pony — DeMarco — for a while yet, trusting that he has the tools to keep improving, believing he can correct a couple of specific problems, and choosing to believe that four interceptions — and a fumble that led directly to a touchdown against the Roughriders — is an aberration and not the sign of more misadventures to come.

“It wasn’t all on him,” head coach Mike Benevides said of DeMarco. “If that was the case, if a particular individual was consistently hurting the football team, you make that change. You make that change. Whoever that next guy up is, he’s next. But how can you do that, when the ball’s on the money, and then it’s on the ground (drop or fumble)?

“Clearly, Thomas is going to be playing and starting for us (next game, Friday against Edmonton). No doubt. Now, how I take the approach in getting Buck (Pierce) more playing time ... I’ll take a look at that, and see how it flies.”

The veteran Pierce, acquired on Sept. 8, has thrown just 13 passes (completing six) in token appearances since his arrival from the Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

With the Lions on the short end of a 31-7 score at halftime against the Roughriders, it was a situation which suggested a change was needed, if just to give the opposition a different look, or simply to hope Pierce’s teammates might respond to his experience and management of the game.

“Ultimately, you want to win the game,” Benevides said. “If I felt that (a switch to Pierce) would have made the difference to us, I would have done that. The combination of what was happening on the field, and my conversations with Buck, decided that wasn’t the way to go. He’s (DeMarco) not going to be immune to mistakes, as a young guy. (But) we wanted him to work through it.”

In his past three games, against the Roughriders (twice) and Stampeders, DeMarco has had much to work through. He’s thrown eight interceptions. And while there are extenuating circumstances to some of them — receiver Courtney Taylor deflected the ball into the hands of Roughrider defender Craig Butler on one of DeMarco’s four picks Saturday — others have been kneecappers.

DeMarco threw only one pick Oct. 11 against the Stampeders, but cornerback Chris Randle returned it 65 yards for the clinching touchdown.

Thus, DeMarco’s quarterback rating has tumbled from 100.7 in September to 74.4 in October, placing him in the company of the Max Halls (75.0), the Josh Neiswanders (73.9) and Tanner Marshes (62.3) of the CFL world.

“I thought about it,” Pierce said, of the decision to make a quarterback switch. “They’re still at a point with me where I’m learning the offence. And I really don’t think Thomas played that badly. I think he battled. The stat line at the end of the day (31 passes, 13 completions, 147 yards, two TDs, four picks) is not going to look great. But I think he made some plays. Every quarterback goes through games like that. You fight through it. And you learn from them. Honestly, I thought Thomas showed a lot of grit and moxie. He was still throwing the football, trying to make things happen.”

But the name DeMarco is still not being said in the same sentence with Lulay’s. He’s a rung below, though far from being a finished product. He’ll need about 1,000 passing attempts before he reaches the point where he’s as good as he’s going to be. That’s still some 800 throws away.

In the meantime, time is not on the Lions’ side — Nov. 10 is looming quickly.

“It’s hard for me to say where I’ll be by then,” Lulay said.

Hard to believe the Lions will go beyond that date without him.