Training camp 2013 thread

[B.C.FAN]

The revised roster and depth chart are posted. Despite all the roster shuffling in the past few days, there are no changes to the projected starters and there are still 79 players in camp, although more of them are injured.

Practices are scheduled for 8:30 a.m. and 3:30 p.m. on both Friday and Saturday but that can always change, especially with rain and cooler temperatures in the Kamloops forecast for both days. I'm hitting the road in the morning. I've packed my Lions umbrella and my waterproof Lions jacket and Lions pants. They always seem to get used at training camp, no matter where it is.

I'm interested in seeing DB Cord Parks. It sounds like he'll get a spot on the 42-man roster one way or another, perhaps at the expense of DL Brandon Jordan, especially if Steven Doege is going to dress anyway on special teams.

The OL shuffle, with Matt Norman starting at guard or centre and Kirby Fabien stepping up, will also be interesting but spectator viewing angles in Kamloops don't lend themselves to good analysis of line play.

In the passing game, the battle between DeMarco, Elliott and Hart for two backup QB positions will be interesting, as well the way Moore, Taylor, Gore, Arceneaux and Iannuzzi work together on patterns.

Tim Brown may also be on the bubble but it's impossible to get a handle on the return game until the real action starts. There really aren't many open positions this year.

[B.C.FAN]

Friday, June 7 afternoon session
24 C and muggy
Helmets only, non-contact session

This was my first look at this year's team so these are first impressions only but I've found in past years that first impressions are usually the most important.

On offence, Matt Norman took first-team reps at centre, Kirby Fabien at right guard and Ernest Jackson and Akeem Foster at wideouts. Angus Reid did light duty, snapping in skelly. Dean Valli participated in warmups only with a big brace on his knee, Manny Arceneaux rode the bike on the sidelines and Marco Iannuzzi wasn't seen by me, on the field or sidelines. Other starters were as listed in the depth chart. Even though it was a non-contact practice, it didn't take long for Patrick Kabongo and Jovan Olafioye to be drenched in sweat. No one else's jerseys seemed to get wet.

On defence, Matt McGarva took first-team reps at safety, Ryan Phillips at wideside half and Cord Parks at wideside corner. I didn't see J.R. LaRose. Lin-J Shell took second-team reps at wideside half, with Phillips moving to corner. DE Julius Williams watched from the sidelines, along with DL Ekom Udofia. Third-string safety Matt Walker was injured in practice and left the field with Bill Reichelt, leaving McGarva as the only non-import DB.

My first impression of the QBs was that Thomas DeMarco looks short compared to the others. Chris Hart looks poised in the pocket and throws a good ball. Jacques Chapdelaine said on Team1040 at noon that DeMarco is ahead of the other backup QBs because of his knowledge of the offence but I wonder how long that advantage will last. For what it's worth, Hart took second-team reps in practice, DeMarco third and Elliott fourth in limited duty, although Elliott made some nice reads and throws. The other QBs pulled the ball down a lot, unable to find anyone open.

Akeem Foster was the most noticeable of the receivers, taking reps with the first and second unit and making some nice catches. Nick Moore and Shawn Gore also had some key grabs. Among second-team receivers, Elvis Akpla and Korey Williams made plays.

Andrew Harris dropped several passes out of the backfield and couldn't find openings in the running game, although it's hard to evaluate the running game in a non-contact practice. Tim Brown looked better.

Adam Bighill and most of the veteran defence were solid. The QBs checked down to their running backs or Foster more than they would have liked. The one big exception on defence was Cord Parks, who was beaten repeatedly and showed no ability to close on the ball in the air. He was playing a new position at wideside corner but for someone who has drawn a lot of hype, he was disappointing.

It was strange seeing guest coach Jim Daley conducting special-teams practice after many years with Saskatchewan and other teams. He is certainly vocal. It looks like Hugh O'Neill has decided to keep growing his beard until he gets on the game-day roster. This should be his year. He was booming his kickoffs, with good distance and height. The Lions won't be trying many onside kicks in live action for a while, though. McCallum and O'Neill both had trouble getting the ball to travel 10 yards. O'Neill managed to kick one backwards. McGarva, Steve Doege and S.J. Haidara took regular roles on special teams, which could indicate their chances of making the game-day roster. Justin Conn didn't.

After practice, I chatted briefly with Rich Stubler and mentioned that the defence seemed to be ahead of the offence today. He said they're getting better. He mentioned the new rules only allowing one contact session per day. He said they banged pretty good in the morning. I'm looking forward to Saturday's sessions.

[WestCoastJoe]

Thanks for the report, BCFAN.

[Toppy Vann]

Thanks for the report, BCFAN.

"Andrew Harris dropped several passes out of the backfield and couldn't find openings in the running game, although it's hard to evaluate the running game in a non-contact practice."

The first thread I read just now was the bulking up of Andrew Harris and started to write a post wondering if anyone in football has ever researched what happens to a player in the immediate season who spent the off season working on a significant body change (bulk up or get leaner) in terms of both performance and injury.

Either bulk up or get leaner changes things.

I know you can't read too much into a practice at TC for a vet who make the team like he will.

Now BCF has just seen the one session where it sounds like the back up QBs didn't get equal work but I am curious to see how much they give 3 and 4 - especially Elliott who has some CFL experience and the Lions must like something about him as they say.

I think the Lions picking up Stubler from the Esks (as he didn't agree with Reed on teaching) was exactly the right thing for Mike Benevides as if not he might have spent too much time trying to de facto DC and not focus as he did on the job of being HC.

[TheLionKing]

Interesting observation on Cord Parks

[pennw]

The first thread I read just now was the bulking up of Andrew Harris and started to write a post wondering if anyone in football has ever researched what happens to a player in the immediate season who spent the off season working on a significant body change (bulk up or get leaner) in terms of both performance and injury.

Either bulk up or get leaner changes things.

Cam Wake gained a significant amount of lean weight in between his first and second seasons with us , more than 15 lbs IIRC . If any thing , in his case it enhanced his performance , making him stronger . There was concern then too if the extra weight may have slowed him down , but that didn't happen . I suspect that is what Harris is trying to accomplish too.

[B.C.FAN]

Saturday, June 8 morning session
18 C partly cloudy
Helmets only, non contact session

There's not much to report from the morning session, which consisted mainly of special-teams walkthroughs, with most players just standing around.

I tried to get a good look at the kickers. Paul McCallum clearly hasn't lost anything. He's still the master of directional punting. At their best, McCallum and Hugh O'Neill probably have about the same distance on their punts and kickoffs but O'Neill seems more consistent and he gets more height. McCallum still has a tendency to shank the occasional punt. Junior Steven Shott is less consistent and probably gets about five yards less than the other kickers on average.

On field goals, McCallum and O'Neill were both purrfect from 32 or 33 yards, with all of the kicks sailing to the back of the end zone. I haven't seen McCallum kick that hard in a long time. O'Neill got a couple more yards on his kicks, as well as more height, but I don't see McCallum giving up the field-goal kicking role.

Matt Norman snapped on the field-goal unit, with DeMarco holding. Where would the Lions be without Norman? Elliott held for O'Neill.

The main punt returners seemed to be Tim Brown, Cord Parks, Isi Sofele, Korey Williams, Travon Patterson and Jaymar Johnson. Sofele had trouble catching the ball. I don't think Tim Brown is in trouble unless the Lions want to give the job to Parks to get an extra DB on the roster.

Matt Walker, injured on Friday, was on crutches with his left knee wrapped. I saw Angus Reid before practice but not during. Dean Valli was on the field but the O-line wasn't doing much. I know the comparisons have been made before but I walked past Reid, Archibald and Valli this morning and was impressed by the way Valli is built. "Good girth," as Dorazio would say. Then I saw Valli sitting on the sidelines beside Kabongo, who dwarfed him. Kabongo is a big, big man.

[TheLionKing]

Appreciate the updates BC Fan

[almo89]

Thanks for the updates BCF! I've seen Kobongo myself in person as well and he makes everybody else look like midgets. Hopefully we can get some consistent play from him this season. Is it true that he lost some weight coming into camp? Is it noticeable?

[B.C.FAN]

Thanks for the updates BCF! I've seen Kobongo myself in person as well and he makes everybody else look like midgets. Hopefully we can get some consistent play from him this season. Is it true that he lost some weight coming into camp? Is it noticeable?

I saw Kabongo when he got to camp last year at a reported 364 pounds. Maybe he's more chiselled now but I honestly don't notice a difference. He's much, much bigger than the 300-pounders who play beside him.

[Zarquon]

Thanks for the updates BCF! I've seen Kobongo myself in person as well and he makes everybody else look like midgets. Hopefully we can get some consistent play from him this season. Is it true that he lost some weight coming into camp? Is it noticeable?

I saw Kabongo when he got to camp last year at a reported 364 pounds. Maybe he's more chiselled now but I honestly don't notice a difference. He's much, much bigger than the 300-pounders who play beside him.

My favourite photo from Grey cup.

[pennw]

You sure make that guy look big Zarquon .

[B.C.FAN]

Saturday, June 8 afternoon session
19 C, mainly sunny
Full pads and contact


The pads were popping on Saturday afternoon with the first full-contact session of the weekend and a lot of team play. There's plenty to discuss, so we'll start with the starters.

On offence, Matt Norman again started at centre and Kirby Fabien at right guard but Dean Valli participated in pads for the first time. Angus Reid was not in pads but did light duty in skelly and appears to be getting closer. Manny Arceneaux was back at short-side wideout but there was no sign of Marco Iannuzzi so Akeem Foster started again on the wide side. More on Foster later in the Receivers discussion

On defence, J.R. LaRose was back at starting safety after missing Friday with a reported case of food poisoning. Cord Parks again started at wideside corner and Ryan Phillips at wideside half. Lin-J Shell backed up at half. Julius Williams was again not on the field. Keron Williams started at his familiar rush end spot and Jabar Westerman at defensive tackle. More on that later in the D-line discussion.

Overall, the offence moved the ball a bit better today but a lot of it was the result of bootlegs by Lulay and short passes to the flat. The first-team receivers, especially Taylor and Moore, haven't been getting open much against the first-team secondary. I was hard on Cord Parks Friday so I'll give him credit for being one of the defensive stars of Saturday, with two knockdowns in team play against Lulay, one of them on a deep ball for Arceneaux that was underthrown. Lulay overthrew Courtney Taylor on a deep ball that appeared to be a blown coverage between Ryan Phillips and J.R. LaRose. Glenn Love also had a knockdown and Korey Banks dropped a potential Pick-6 off Joey Elliott. Banks immediately dropped to the turf and did 10 pushups. Lin-J Shell had the only interception of the day, off Chris Hart in skelly, but Hart bounced back and threw two deep TDs to Okanagan Sun junior Bobby Davis and fifth-string RB Isi Sofele, who sneaked down the sidelines. More on Hart later in the QB discussion.

Here are observations on some of the position battles:

Quarterbacks:
The Lions have to find a way to keep Chris Hart, perhaps in place of Elliott or DeMarco or perhaps as a fourth QB who can provide insurance in the expansion draft. He has the best arm of any of the QBs by far, has great size and pocket presence and gets rid of the ball quickly. He threw one deep ball on the run that might have gone for a TD but appeared to glance off the upright from 65 yards away. He can keep defences honest. DeMarco took second-team reps today, followed by Elliott and Hart but I'm not sold on DeMarco. He seems to get swallowed up in the pocket, hangs on to the ball for a long time and throws a soft pass. He makes good decisions but I like Elliott and Hart better. Perhaps it's because he was on the third team, but Elliott seemed to be the only QB who could consistently find his slots in the seams.

Receivers:
I don't know what's wrong with Iannuzzi but Akeem Foster might have been the best receiver on the field again. The Lions don't lose anything with his big body in the starting lineup and he's catching everything thrown his way. Shawn Gore again is dangerous on crossing routes and Arceneaux can be a dual threat running and catching the ball as Kierrie Johnson and Ernest Jackson were at his position last year. Moore and Taylor, though, have to show that they can use their size and athleticism to replace the experience of Geroy Simon and Arland Bruce. From what I've seen, they're not there yet.

Running backs:
Andrew Harris caught two balls out of the backfield and dropped one. He and Tim Brown didn't get a lot of reps running the ball in team play. Andre Dixon and Isi Sofele got to carry the ball but didn't do much with the opportunity. Dixon doesn't look like a running back. He's long and lean and fast. He looks like he should be running track and not a running back. Sofele, at 5 ft. 8, is built more like Tim Brown and has the potential to disappear in the backfield, then squirt out the other side. I didn't see any squirting, though, and he took some big hits from Love and others. Small running backs always come out on the losing end in big collisions.

O-Line:
Matt Norman took reps at centre and right guard. He seemed to handle everything and everyone in one-on-ones but he couldn't handle Eric Taylor in red-zone play, resulting in a conversation with Dan Dorazio, and he took a procedure penalty in team play while taking reps at guard. I feel sorry for him. His head must be spinning with everything he has had to absorb but it looks like he will be a starter, either at centre or guard, and I think he'll do well. With Dean Valli returning, Reid potentially close to returning and Kirby Fabien seemingly capable of stepping into the lineup if needed, the Lions should have good depth.

D-line:
I don't know what's wrong with Julius Williams but I scratched my head when the Lions pencilled him in as starting rush end before he had taken a snap in a Lion uniform, especially since he couldn't stay healthy in his time in Edmonton. I don't know what he can bring, but I know the Lions can get by just fine without him with Keron Williams at rush end and Westerman at tackle. In fact, the mind boggles at the roster implications of a potential five-man rotation, with Westerman and Steve Doege as two non-imports. That would free up two import positions to be used elsewhere, one as a starter (safety, perhaps?). Doege appears poised to make the roster as a special teamer and he looked quick in one-on-ones off the edge. With his extra weight, a reported 253 or 255 pounds, he looks more like a defensive end than he did last year when he was a boy among men. Nice beard, too.

Linebackers:
At Mac or Will or wherever he lines up, Adam Bighill is the leader of the defence and is dominant. Korey Banks looks to be relishing his role at nickel. Solomon Elimimian and Anton McKenzie give the Lions the best depth and experience in the league at the position. Glenn Love can also play if the Lions can find a way to get him on the roster. Don't even think about seeing a non-import linebacker. Jason Arakgi, Joash Gesse and Justin Conn are buried so deep on the depth chart they should be considered special teamers only. In Conn's case, there's no guarantee of even a special-teams role.

Defensive back:
I didn't like Cord Parks in man coverage on Friday but he looked great on Saturday. I've never liked Lin-J Shell in man coverage. At this point, I'll take Parks ahead of Shell in the starting lineup. I want to see more but he also looks like he'll be good in run support off the edge and can deliver a blow. On the other side, Josh Bell and Dante Marsh look like they've played together forever. One reason that Nick Moore and Courtney Taylor haven't been getting open is the play of Bell at short-side halfback. Textbook. Shell looks like he'll be a good sixth man again. That leaves just the safety position. Can LaRose or McGarva read the play and plays? They'll probably have to, since it's pencilled in as a non-import position, but I haven't seen enough yet.

Special teams:
Hugh O'Neill did all the punting in afternoon special-teams session and was booming the ball 55 yards from the line of scrimmage, but he had a tailwind so the real test would be punting into the wind, which didn't happen. Adam Bighill was snapping on the punt team. He usually backs up Tim Cronk. I like the thought of Bighill leading the cover team downfield but I like the consistency of Cronk's snaps better.

Up next: Fanfest on Sunday, with one practice from 1:30 to 3 p.m., followed by an autograph session from 3:15 to 4. It should be fun.

[Hawkballer 14]

The first thread I read just now was the bulking up of Andrew Harris and started to write a post wondering if anyone in football has ever researched what happens to a player in the immediate season who spent the off season working on a significant body change (bulk up or get leaner) in terms of both performance and injury.

Either bulk up or get leaner changes things.

Cam Wake gained a significant amount of lean weight in between his first and second seasons with us , more than 15 lbs IIRC . If any thing , in his case it enhanced his performance , making him stronger . There was concern then too if the extra weight may have slowed him down , but that didn't happen . I suspect that is what Harris is trying to accomplish too.

I'd say apples/oranges to your Harris v. Wake comparison: open field ability versus trench warfare.

I really hope that Andrew adding that much muscle mass doesn't take away from his combination of speed/shiftiness that made him a contender for the POY last year.

[WestCoastJoe]

Another great report, BCF. Appreciated.

Matt Norman took reps at centre and right guard. He seemed to handle everything and everyone in one-on-ones but he couldn't handle Eric Taylor in red-zone play, resulting in a conversation with Dan Dorazio, and he took a procedure penalty in team play while taking reps at guard. I feel sorry for him. His head must be spinning with everything he has had to absorb but it looks like he will be a starter, either at centre or guard, and I think he'll do well. With Dean Valli returning, Reid potentially close to returning and Kirby Fabien seemingly capable of stepping into the lineup if needed, the Lions should have good depth.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I hope we are not going to screw up Matt Norman with too many changes, too much responsibility, too much stuff in the head. Crisis to crisis in the O Line?