Esk's Ed Hervey Trades McKnight (Tillman's Folly?) to Riders

[Toppy Vann]

I can't understand how there can be any Tillman defenders left. The guy is a bad man and we'll be a better league and country when the guy leaves both and heads home.

I have never seen the firing of one team's GM bring so much happiness to fans of all teams. By contrast, pretty much all of the non-Eskimo fans were disappointed the day Danny M got relieved of his duties.

Nothing Tillman has said about this trade was believable. I'm not a fan of Kavis Reed's hothead style but he's the only person with class in the gong show that runs the Eskimos.

While the upside he hasn't got the disruption of Tillman to deal with from here on. The downside is the QB situation.

If he has a desire for GM he might be best to take the job if offered and hold the HC spot too and get some other top support around him. BUT he was unable to keep Stubler and that might not be his fault but it is an issue when you go recruiting. The downside is too many jobs and taking a role on as GM when you are not experienced or ready for the role. The upside given his situation where he he was Tillman's choice for GM the risk is that a new GM from outside will have less of a desire to hang his fate on the HC and these guys if the team loses all feel their guy will win so they go for a new HC.

Kavis has made some odd comments that suggest to me he has yet to fully mature as a HC where his public statements on his team and players run in parallel to what a fan sees his team doing.

I find this sort of comment a little bit odd:

> Joseph again this 2012 season is his MOP.

> Nicholls not playing. We want to win now.

> he can be OC too.

> Now 5 to 10 year setback statement being aired when he tells his team to forget the season and new slate coming.

If KJ is MOP for two years in a row yet can't close out games that are winnable, how does that square. The year before he was their MOP he hardly played! What message is that to the team as to what success looks like as an Eskimo.

Nicholls - is he on a par with where Lulay and Tate were or his like the Wpg backups? That is what they pay the HC to know.
Why not make a decision on Nicholls given the play of KJ and SJ to go with Nicholls like the Stamps and Lions did. Lulay was given the job despite Jackson there who some felt should have been given a shot over a struggling Travis. There is a balance between the old days - play as a QB and sink and be gone from football and the Wally way - develop and bring these guys with some playing time in practice and in games.

The question a GM would have to have if his HC thinks it will take 5 to 10 years to develop a winning team is this? Do I have the right HC?

I think Reed has been a pretty good coach. He needs to stop some of the blather and rah rah rah stuff. Look at the HCs that are new like Benevides who has made very few errors in statements this season. The old vets like Hufnagel and Trestman too are good role models.

The best coaches aren't always the ones who give rah rah motivating talks and ranting about "the____way" and how they say your are losers. I think Kavis did that every game he was on TSN pre and post game talking to the team.

The best coaches keep on the same message track and are consistent in what they say and they are very focused. If the fans see black, they don't try and tell them they are seeing white although I guess Wally did hit a period there when scheme was not an issue and no one bought that - not even his offense after a while. They fixed it and it's been great since. The best don't tell players to go home and forget the season they just screwed up. The focus has to be on the lessons.

No question that the Esks had every right to make a change. I am no fan of a GM not living in your community as that does not grow the CFL and as a fan of many years to me that is one of the most vital roles that a GM has to play in the community. The fans want to hear from the team leadership - GM and HC and if you can't be in the same community then even if is not your fault you need to move on.

[WestCoastJoe]

Esks' CEO calls Tillman press conference 'a low point'

Terry Jones

Yesterday at 10:45 PM

Edmonton Eskimos CEO Len Rhodes speaks to the media at Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton on Nov. 3 after firing GM Eric Tillman. (QMI AGENCY/FILES)

The timing is interesting.

While the 100th Grey Cup festival roars on a blocked off Front Street in front of the Intercontinental Hotel, on the day before Ricky Ray leads the Toronto Argos in the Grey Cup game, Len Rhodes, the rookie CEO of the Edmonton Eskimos, will sit down with the Nervous Nine board of directors here.

They will decide how to proceed to find the successor to the recently fired Eric Tillman, the man who made arguably the worst trade in CFL history.

Because of the Ray trade, the Eskimos have almost been like the third team involved in this Grey Cup. And now, with this, obviously it's going to be that way right up to kickoff.

Rhodes, who hadn't spoken in public or given an interview since the fiasco of a press conference to fire Tillman, revealed the details of the board meeting on the eve of the event in a wide-sweeping exclusive interview with your correspondent.

"We're going to decide the process of hiring a new GM," he said, and suggested there will likely be big-picture conversations "about the entire football ops model" as well as "remaining relevant in the community" and "restoring the pride and passion" of the Eskimos.

Rhodes absolutely guaranteed the one thing you can count on is that Kavis Reed will play a huge role in the Eskimos organization going forward.

"I want Kavis to be part of the long-term future of this football club. Kavis has assured me that he's still very much committed to the organization and the community.

"Kavis walks the talk. He's just a fabulous person," he said of the former Eskimos player in the '90s who was an assistant coach for a decade with various teams in the league and never moved his family away from Edmonton.

Rhodes said he "would not support" two roles for Reed as GM and coach, and that his preference would be for Reed "to be 100%" the coach. He said there's no question the way the players on the team feel about him as coach, as evidenced by the testimonial offered by J.C. Sherritt in accepting the most outstanding defensive award Thursday.

Reed said having head coach Reed there to save the day in so many ways has been a godsend in attempting to fix so much of the mess left behind by Tillman, in the transition period for finding the successor to the man who traded away Ricky Ray.

With Tillman leaving 14 unsigned free-agent starters, most of them on defence, Rhodes said Reed has "already been tapping players on the shoulders" to get reassurances of their desire to return.

Rhodes confirmed that Reed's recent revelation to your agent that he was very vocal in his opposition to trading Ricky Ray in the meeting with Tillman, outgoing CEO Rick LeLacheur and himself 11 days into the job.

And he added more detail to the deal.

"What hasn't come out is the fact I delayed it five days. I was at the CFL meetings in Las Vegas. Eric wanted to pull the trigger immediately. Eric said he was the GM and had never been questioned and if you have hired somebody with his reputation and history of successes, you let him do the job. Kavis remained very vocal not to do the trade. But Eric said 'I will be responsible and hold myself responsible.' "

Rhodes said he wants the Eskimos fan base to know he's well aware he totally blew it at the fiasco of a press conference involving the firing of Eric Tillman in which, unbelievably, he said he made the move for "no reason" and, given several chances to rephrase, kept repeating "no specific reason." He said it was a misguided attempt to take the high road.

"That press conference was a low point," he said.

"It was a very poor choice of words. I admit that. I said 'no specific reason.' Quite obviously there were a significant number of reasons."

The former Molson executive, who became available for the Eskimos job when he was fired from the position of heading up the global headquarters and operations of Reebok-CCM Hockey, said it was the first time he had to fire anyone in such a public way before.

"I was thinking only about the human being and how it's tough enough to go through being released without a press conference two hours later to throw salt in the wounds.

"I learned the lesson that we're a community-owned franchise, and that our fans want to know and deserve to know the reasons for making those kind of decisions," he said.

He admitted that his repeated insistence that the reason for firing Tillman was strictly "because as leader of the Edmonton Eskimos, Eric didn't fit my vision of the future" didn't come close to covering it.

"The truth is that there were a series of distractions all year long," said Rhodes, admitting what he avoided at the press conference. Things had become so un-Eskimo-like on the football ops floor that it got insane with the amount of work the head coach was having to do, dealing with duties which were supposed to be handled by the general manager.

"There was a sloppiness in registering players all year long, which was causing problems with the league from week to week until the league, to finally make the point, fined us $1,000."

He said it didn't just happen the once. It happened again and again.

"Because we were the Edmonton Eskimos and historically have set an example, they didn't make an issue out of it, out of respect for the club. When they finally fined us, we could hardly make a case we didn't deserve it."

The Eskimos had several people leave the organization during the season and Rhodes said that one of them, Ryan Wagner, who was involved with most of the paperwork dealings with the league office, listed "the environment under Eric as the reason he left."

Rhodes said a big factor in the decision was that Tillman, after he was given the job, didn't move to Edmonton but remained in Regina, where he was previously the general manager of the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

"Eric and I had numerous conversations on the topic of relocating and how important that is on a community-owned team. You need the general manager to be living in Edmonton and actually participating in the community. He said he was not comfortable with doing that. We agreed to review it at the end of the season."

Rhodes also said Tillman working out of his office in his home in Regina or in Mississippi was only part of it.

"It was Eric's attendance at road games, too. He only went to one road game all year, the one here in Toronto. When you lose five in a row, like we did this year, you want your general manager to be there for your coach.

"We lost confidence in Eric. The breaking point for me, personally, was when he traded our first-round draft choice for kicker Brody McKnight in the middle of the night, without any consultation whatsoever. I found out in the morning when I opened my e-mail."

Kent Austin as GM and Head Coach? Well he would be a terrific hire. But leaving a comfy IVY League school? Dunno about that ...

http://m.edmontonsun.com/2012/11/23/esk ... -low-point

[WestCoastJoe]

Rhodes confirmed that Reed's recent revelation to your agent that he was very vocal in his opposition to trading Ricky Ray in the meeting with Tillman, outgoing CEO Rick LeLacheur and himself 11 days into the job.

And he added more detail to the deal.

"What hasn't come out is the fact I delayed it five days. I was at the CFL meetings in Las Vegas. Eric wanted to pull the trigger immediately. Eric said he was the GM and had never been questioned and if you have hired somebody with his reputation and history of successes, you let him do the job. Kavis remained very vocal not to do the trade. But Eric said 'I will be responsible and hold myself responsible.' "

He admitted that his repeated insistence that the reason for firing Tillman was strictly "because as leader of the Edmonton Eskimos, Eric didn't fit my vision of the future" didn't come close to covering it.

"The truth is that there were a series of distractions all year long," said Rhodes, admitting what he avoided at the press conference. Things had become so un-Eskimo-like on the football ops floor that it got insane with the amount of work the head coach was having to do, dealing with duties which were supposed to be handled by the general manager.

"There was a sloppiness in registering players all year long, which was causing problems with the league from week to week until the league, to finally make the point, fined us $1,000."

He said it didn't just happen the once. It happened again and again.

"Because we were the Edmonton Eskimos and historically have set an example, they didn't make an issue out of it, out of respect for the club. When they finally fined us, we could hardly make a case we didn't deserve it."

The Eskimos had several people leave the organization during the season and Rhodes said that one of them, Ryan Wagner, who was involved with most of the paperwork dealings with the league office, listed "the environment under Eric as the reason he left."

"It was Eric's attendance at road games, too. He only went to one road game all year, the one here in Toronto. When you lose five in a row, like we did this year, you want your general manager to be there for your coach.

"We lost confidence in Eric. The breaking point for me, personally, was when he traded our first-round draft choice for kicker Brody McKnight in the middle of the night, without any consultation whatsoever. I found out in the morning when I opened my e-mail."

[joe kapp22]

Tilman made a poor trade for the wrong reasons, Reed seems a bit nutty.

Could be they should clear the decks in Edmonton.

[TheLionKing]

What's done is done. The guy who made the deal is no longer with the organization. Time to move on.

[WestCoastJoe]

Free advice for Tiger-Cats

By Rob Vanstone, The Leader-Post December 13, 2012

It has been suggested that the Hamilton Tiger-Cats brass should woo the architect of the Saskatchewan Roughriders' 2007 championship season.

The idea does have merit.

So the Tiger-Cats should give Eric Tillman a call.

The popular speculation revolves around Kent Austin, who was the Roughriders' head coach when they won the Grey Cup five years ago.

It would not be surprising to see the Tiger-Cats aggressively pursue Austin, who is now an Ivy League head coach with Cornell.

But why not begin by hiring the person who hired Austin in Saskatchewan?

Would Tillman's presence not enhance the Tiger-Cats' chances of landing Austin and, in turn, emerging from the doldrums?

Sure, some additional costs would be involved, but Tiger-Cats owner Bob Young is a billionaire. Plus, if money was the factor, the Tabbies would have retained the highly paid George Cortez - who was cashiered on Tuesday after one season as the CFL team's head coach.

Cortez's departure, plus the phasing out of vice-president of football operations Bob O'Billovich, creates a gaping hole in the Tiger-Cats' front office.

First and foremost, the Tiger-Cats need someone who understands every nuance of the CFL, its salary management system and its personnel. And they could use someone who has a proven track record of turning around franchises and hiring effective head coaches.

Hello there, Eric Tillman.

Of course, the track record is not without its blemishes. Tillman was recently fired as the Edmonton Eskimos' GM. Edmonton had hired him, amid some objections, in September of 2010 - nine months after he resigned as the Roughriders' GM. He stepped down after pleading guilty to a summary charge of sexual assault. As part of the resolution, Tillman emerged without a criminal record.

The Eskimos gave Tillman a second chance and were initially rewarded. In his only full season as the Eskimos' GM, the team finished second in the West Division with an 11-7 record.

But then came the move that ultimately cemented Tillman's fate in Edmonton. The controversial trade of future Hall of Fame quarterback Ricky Ray to the Toronto Argonauts cast a shadow over the Eskimos.

Tillman strenuously defended the deal, but it ultimately backfired. The 2012 Eskimos played musical quarterbacks while Ray quarterbacked Toronto during what would be a championship season.

The Eskimos brass sacked Tillman as the Green and Gold prepared to play the Ray-led Argos in a first-round crossover playoff game.

Since then, Tillman has been roundly vilified. After being named the Eskimos' GM on Monday, Ed Hervey told the media that "the Double E stands for Edmonton Eskimos, not the Ego Empire.''

Evidently, the Double E also stands for Eviscerate Eric.

Lost in the frenzy of Tillman-bashing is the fact that he has been the general manager of three Grey Cup-winning teams - the 1994 B.C. Lions, the 1997 Argonauts and the 2007 Roughriders.

Reminder: Tillman had an ego while he was employed by all three of those championship teams.

His modus operandi isn't any different than it was when he was assembling Grey Cup champions.


That aspect of Tillman's resume seems to be ignored as he is thrown under an entire fleet of buses, after which the steamrollers are activated.

The Tiger-Cats would be wise not to take such a myopic view with regard to Tillman.

They could search far and wide for someone to lead the organization's football-operations side without coming close to finding anyone whose qualifications match those of Tillman, even when the Ray trade is factored into the equation.

Keep in mind that larcenous transactions have also worked in Tillman's favour. In 2007, for example, he robbed the Tiger-Cats blind while acquiring receivers D.J. Flick and Chris Getzlaf, offensive lineman Wayne Smith and tailback-returner Corey Holmes in a pair of deals, while surrendering very little.

From the Roughriders' perspective, Hamilton should have been dubbed Steal-town.

Also remember that the tone for the storybook season of 2007 was set when Tillman made his shrewdest move of all - naming Austin the head coach.

In that respect, the Tiger-Cats may choose to emulate Tillman.

They should go one step further and hire him.

Read more: http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/VANSTO ... z2F1EwxMMn

[WestCoastJoe]

"So the Tiger-Cats should give Eric Tillman a call." - Rob Vanstone

Ahemm ... slight cough ... LOL

I guess what happened in Edmonton didn't really happen. One of the worst trades in the history of the CFL. Another terrible trade for the kicker Brody McKnight. An organization in chaos. Absentee GM. Duties dumped on the Head Coach. Scouting details squirreled away in binders. Late night phone calls urging sympathetic reporters to write stories suggesting personnel moves the GM wants.

Or the Kool Aid is so strong that true believers (like Vanstone) just discount anything. Legal matters. Image for an organization in the community. An unhappy staff. Unhappy fans. Overworked, loyal coach. And continue to believe that Tillman can keep his ego needs from distorting his judgment, and his personality from screwing up an organization.

First and foremost, the Tiger-Cats need someone who understands every nuance of the CFL, its salary management system and its personnel. And they could use someone who has a proven track record of turning around franchises and hiring effective head coaches.

Yes he has hired some effective coaches. And perhaps in those more successful times, he left his coaches alone. Guys like Dave Ritchie, Don Matthews, and Kent Austin. A Grey Cup with each of those outstanding coaches. Not so much in Ottawa and Edmonton.

Of course, the track record is not without its blemishes. Tillman was recently fired as the Edmonton Eskimos' GM. Edmonton had hired him, amid some objections, in September of 2010 - nine months after he resigned as the Roughriders' GM. He stepped down after pleading guilty to a summary charge of sexual assault. As part of the resolution, Tillman emerged without a criminal record.

Blemishes? Yeah, just a few ... But its seems the true believers can overlook them.

I guess I will be shocked if Bob Young makes that phone call.

Could it happen? Ya never know ... if Bob Young is one of those believers.

More chapters still to come. I suppose Eric Tillman will eventually be allowed to tell his side of the Edmonton story. Perhaps in January ...

Just IMO ... I guess it is obvious that I wouldn't recommend making that phone call. Not a believer. Try the Kool Aid? No thanks.

[Rammer]

"So the Tiger-Cats should give Eric Tillman a call." - Rob Vanstone

Ahemm ... slight cough ... LOL

I guess what happened in Edmonton didn't really happen. One of the worst trades in the history of the CFL. Another terrible trade for the kicker Brody McKnight. An organization in chaos. Absentee GM. Duties dumped on the Head Coach. Scouting details squirreled away in binders. Late night phone calls urging sympathetic reporters to write stories suggesting personnel moves the GM wants.

Or the Kool Aid is so strong that true believers (like Vanstone) just discount anything. Legal matters. Image for an organization in the community. A unhappy staff. Unhappy fans. Overworked, loyal coach. And continue to believe that Tillman can keep his ego needs from distorting his judgment, and his personality from screwing up an organization.

First and foremost, the Tiger-Cats need someone who understands every nuance of the CFL, its salary management system and its personnel. And they could use someone who has a proven track record of turning around franchises and hiring effective head coaches.

Yes he has hired some effective coaches. And perhaps in those more successful times, he left his coaches alone. Guys like Dave Ritchie, Don Matthews, and Kent Austin. A Grey Cup with each of those outstanding coaches. Not so much in Ottawa and Edmonton.

Of course, the track record is not without its blemishes. Tillman was recently fired as the Edmonton Eskimos' GM. Edmonton had hired him, amid some objections, in September of 2010 - nine months after he resigned as the Roughriders' GM. He stepped down after pleading guilty to a summary charge of sexual assault. As part of the resolution, Tillman emerged without a criminal record.

Blemishes? Yeah, just a few ... But its seems the true believers can overlook them.

I guess I will be shocked if Bob Young makes that phone call.

Could it happen? Ya never know ... if Bob Young is one of those believers.

More chapters still to come. I suppose Eric Tillman will eventually be allowed to tell his side of the Edmonton story. Perhaps in January ...

Just IMO ... I guess it is obvious that I wouldn't recommend making that phone call. Not a believer. Try the Kool Aid? No thanks.

You know according to Esksfans.com that Tillman actually traced down some members and threatened them. You may not want to stir up the red headed pissant although he doesn't have as much clout over any Lion fans.

[WestCoastJoe]

You know according to Esksfans.com that Tillman actually traced down some members and threatened them. You may not want to stir up the red headed pissant although he doesn't have as much clout over any Lion fans.

Yes, Rammer, I have heard that.

But, Hey, this is Canada. No Stasi. No KGB. No Savak. No CIA.

Ahhhhhh, nothing happened to those on esksfans that criticized him. Apparently he did pm (private message) some members with spin. Wonder if he has done that here.

I wish him no ill. But when he hits the news, which was always rather frequently, I will usually comment. I expect he will comment on the Edmonton fiasco sometime in the new year. With all of his baggage, and how his approach to his work with Edmonton seemed to be driven by personal issues and needs, disregarding the organization's best interests, I think he is not good for the CFL.

Looks like he and Vanstone were sympatico. He has his loyal fans.

I have some sympathy for him and his family. Regina was bad from a legal and reputation point of view. Edmonton was bad from a career perspective.

[TheLionKing]

Tillman also has his share of detractors

[DanoT]

I think anyone who hires Tillman at this point is out of his mind. Maybe Tillman can resurrect his CFL career in 5 or 10 years like Jeff Reinbold.....oh, well he will likely be just as successful as Jeff.

[Hambone]

Given much of the talk coming out of Edmonton re; the way Tillman conducted business there one has to wonder if he was a factor in Austin's quick departure after winning the 2007 GC with the RIders. All the talk at the time was about the opportunity to be on the staff of his alma mater Ole Miss. But he didn't stay there long before going to Cornell albeit for a HC job. Regardless his Ole Miss stay was so short it has me wondering if he was motivated to go there.....or motivated to get out of Saskatchewan.

[TheLionKing]

Given much of the talk coming out of Edmonton re; the way Tillman conducted business there one has to wonder if he was a factor in Austin's quick departure after winning the 2007 GC with the RIders. All the talk at the time was about the opportunity to be on the staff of his alma mater Ole Miss. But he didn't stay there long before going to Cornell albeit for a HC job. Regardless his Ole Miss stay was so short it has me wondering if he was motivated to go there.....or motivated to get out of Saskatchewan.

Interesting scenario. Never thought of that possibility

[Toppy Vann]

Given much of the talk coming out of Edmonton re; the way Tillman conducted business there one has to wonder if he was a factor in Austin's quick departure after winning the 2007 GC with the RIders. All the talk at the time was about the opportunity to be on the staff of his alma mater Ole Miss. But he didn't stay there long before going to Cornell albeit for a HC job. Regardless his Ole Miss stay was so short it has me wondering if he was motivated to go there.....or motivated to get out of Saskatchewan.

I don't think so. Hopson made it clear that they wanted to keep him but PR was an issue.

The biggest issue seems to be the Ray trade with no back up producing as promised by ET and the fact that he was absent down south, did not go on road trips and did not live in Edmonton.

[WestCoastJoe]

The biggest issue seems to be the Ray trade with no back up producing as promised by ET and the fact that he was absent down south, did not go on road trips and did not live in Edmonton.

Yeah. The Ricky Ray trade put Tillman out on a limb. There was a large fan base opposed to his hiring. (The legal baggage is a huge issue. The way his personality rubs so many the wrong way is always an issue.) The Ray trade really stirred them up. The website eskfans was relentless in its criticism. Writers like Terry Jones really got on his case. All his media reach outs started to backfire. Dissent and dysfunction within the organization grew.

If he had stayed quiet, if he hadn't traded Ray, if the Eskimos had played lights out, if Jyles had done what he has never done (played well for a year). Lots of ifs ... It seems Tillman could not play it quietly. I suppose he believed his own press clippings. He was desperate to prove himself. He over-reached. Plus his personality flaws really got in the way.

IMO the Brody McKnight trade was the capper. Two first round picks for a guy who was thought to be a punter as well, but was really only just a place kicker, with a very slow delivery. No one consulted about the trade. And even the business about revealing the QBs on the negotiation list seemed desperate.

Pretty amazing case study for sports management, organization management, career disaster, personality dysfunction, media relations, and a host of other issues. I've never seen anything like it. And there are more chapters to come ... Eric Tillman is not the type to go quietly in the night.