Interesting question and one that will be difficult for the Lions to decide upon. The ration factor enters into this decision more than any other one on the team I suspect. If Rayford was to win out, the NI numbers have to work elsewhere, plus now Nauten M-L becomes depth on the depth that Foley gives to BJ's spot. Crazy having that kind of depth at a DE position with NI talent when in the past it is considered a ratio breaker position. The answer you look for may work itself out on the Eskimo game.pennw wrote:So who do we want as our starting DE , Foley or Rayford ? We can't have both in one spot .
20090620 Training Camp Observations, Saturday
Moderator: Team Captains
Entertainment value = an all time low
The Lions look to have eight non-import starters, but I doubt that an import defensive end would be kept on the active roster with McKay-Loescher available to back up the non-import starters. The Lions normally use the three designated import positions for extra linebackers, defensive backs, receivers or running backs, at least one of whom would be a kick returner.JohnHenry wrote:I think the Lions are planning on starting eight non-imports, rather than the required seven, if R. Foley is the starter. I assume they would keep an import DE as backup or designated import?
-
WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
Possible non-import starters ...
Left guard
Valli or Hameister-Ries
Centre
Reid
Right guard
Haji-Rasouli
Fullback
Bwenge or Lumbala
Receiver
Jackson
Defensive end
Johnson
Foley (possibly)
Linebacker
Glatt
..............
Future possibilities
Matt Carter ... could be ready fairly soon
Justin Sorensen ... a year or two away
Yurichuk ... by next year, if not sooner
Crawford ... close, if not there already
Left guard
Valli or Hameister-Ries
Centre
Reid
Right guard
Haji-Rasouli
Fullback
Bwenge or Lumbala
Receiver
Jackson
Defensive end
Johnson
Foley (possibly)
Linebacker
Glatt
..............
Future possibilities
Matt Carter ... could be ready fairly soon
Justin Sorensen ... a year or two away
Yurichuk ... by next year, if not sooner
Crawford ... close, if not there already
-
WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
afternoon practice, Saturday, June 20
QBs
It seems to me the QBs have been instructed to tuck the ball away and run if the passing play is not there almost at once. Although it might seem like too many broken plays, or giving up on a play too soon, in many ways it would make sense. Running lanes are wide open for a mobile quarterback in this league. Burris really showed that in the Grey Cup. A mobile QB can be your best running back. I would say the QB is no more likely to get hurt running than he is as a sitting duck in the pocket. Just look for a good opportunity to hook slide (Right, Buck?).
Mixed results. Buck about the same. Jarious about the same (some head shaking throws, some awesome throws). Zac and Travis looking more in the flow at times than the QBs ahead of them. One thing I remember about Dave Dickenson in his prime. He was so efficient. He almost always got all that there was to be had from a play, even in practice. He got the ball to the right place. And like Bill Walsh taught, the receiver got the ball in a precise location relative to his body, so that he could instantly turn on the jets.
RBs
Ian Smart #1, but also looking like #1 as kick returner. We'll see how Wally sorts that out. IMO Martell Mallett is ahead of Damian Sims. Emmanuel Marc eager to get into the fray.
Receivers
Rufus Skillern looks to me like his hand eye coordination is not the best. Even in receiver drills with JC, he drops passes. No change with the others since last report. Great crop of young receivers, including the 2 Canucks, Hetherington and Carter. Otis Amey made a sensational leaping catch on a long ball over the middle.
O Line
Many banged up bodies: JHR in a sling, Marquez limping, Valli not 100%, Sherko not 100%, Jones not 100%. Thank you for Justin Sorensen. Worked at right guard and right tackle. Did a nice job pass blocking against Caesar Rayford more than once. Slowed him to a stop at the edge of the pocket.
D Line
Hunt and Gibbs and Williams looking very good in the middle. Loud, obnoxious, funny and good in the middle. Foley seeming to win the rush end spot almost by default. IMO Brown and Butler have not shown much. Rayford interesting, but I still ask: can he play? I have not seen any tape. Walter Stith manhandled Gary Butler one time, with GB ending up pinned on the ground. Murphy would have jumped on with a body slam for the complete pancake.
DBs
Lots of work for Heyward, it seems. Crawford not practicing. Dante Marsh dangerous for QBs and receivers on the corner. 2 picks out of 9 thrown his way.
LBs
The great mystery. Jerome Dennis seems to be starting LB #3, sort of, mostly pass coverage running with his back to the QB. Terna Nande seems to be LB #3 on obvious running downs. Glatt and McKenzie seem to be regular starters. Heyward, Smith and Yurichuk are in the mix.
I have concerns: have we solidified our schemes and personnel from last year, when it seems to me we were poor against the run? Once runners like Cobourne or even Foord broke it off tackle, it was a sprint to the end zone. With our ends sealed as they rush wide, our DTs and "run-stopping" LBs are no doubt outmanned on the off tackle stretch run. As the runner breaks the line, he sees the backs of the DBs running away from him, still in pass coverage. Nice!
If Javy can't get there, or misses the tackle, the RB is off to the races. 2 of the LBs seem to have more pass coverage responsibility than run stopping responsibility. If you don't have a fire breathing run stopper in there somewhere you are vulnerable to the run. It also seemed to me last year that Barron Miles did not have the speed to get over in time to make the tackle 15 yards down the field (last shot). The runner just flew past him.
On the off tackle run, it is bit wide for the DTs, especially if they too get sealed inside with angle blocking.
QBs
It seems to me the QBs have been instructed to tuck the ball away and run if the passing play is not there almost at once. Although it might seem like too many broken plays, or giving up on a play too soon, in many ways it would make sense. Running lanes are wide open for a mobile quarterback in this league. Burris really showed that in the Grey Cup. A mobile QB can be your best running back. I would say the QB is no more likely to get hurt running than he is as a sitting duck in the pocket. Just look for a good opportunity to hook slide (Right, Buck?).
Mixed results. Buck about the same. Jarious about the same (some head shaking throws, some awesome throws). Zac and Travis looking more in the flow at times than the QBs ahead of them. One thing I remember about Dave Dickenson in his prime. He was so efficient. He almost always got all that there was to be had from a play, even in practice. He got the ball to the right place. And like Bill Walsh taught, the receiver got the ball in a precise location relative to his body, so that he could instantly turn on the jets.
RBs
Ian Smart #1, but also looking like #1 as kick returner. We'll see how Wally sorts that out. IMO Martell Mallett is ahead of Damian Sims. Emmanuel Marc eager to get into the fray.
Receivers
Rufus Skillern looks to me like his hand eye coordination is not the best. Even in receiver drills with JC, he drops passes. No change with the others since last report. Great crop of young receivers, including the 2 Canucks, Hetherington and Carter. Otis Amey made a sensational leaping catch on a long ball over the middle.
O Line
Many banged up bodies: JHR in a sling, Marquez limping, Valli not 100%, Sherko not 100%, Jones not 100%. Thank you for Justin Sorensen. Worked at right guard and right tackle. Did a nice job pass blocking against Caesar Rayford more than once. Slowed him to a stop at the edge of the pocket.
D Line
Hunt and Gibbs and Williams looking very good in the middle. Loud, obnoxious, funny and good in the middle. Foley seeming to win the rush end spot almost by default. IMO Brown and Butler have not shown much. Rayford interesting, but I still ask: can he play? I have not seen any tape. Walter Stith manhandled Gary Butler one time, with GB ending up pinned on the ground. Murphy would have jumped on with a body slam for the complete pancake.
DBs
Lots of work for Heyward, it seems. Crawford not practicing. Dante Marsh dangerous for QBs and receivers on the corner. 2 picks out of 9 thrown his way.
LBs
The great mystery. Jerome Dennis seems to be starting LB #3, sort of, mostly pass coverage running with his back to the QB. Terna Nande seems to be LB #3 on obvious running downs. Glatt and McKenzie seem to be regular starters. Heyward, Smith and Yurichuk are in the mix.
I have concerns: have we solidified our schemes and personnel from last year, when it seems to me we were poor against the run? Once runners like Cobourne or even Foord broke it off tackle, it was a sprint to the end zone. With our ends sealed as they rush wide, our DTs and "run-stopping" LBs are no doubt outmanned on the off tackle stretch run. As the runner breaks the line, he sees the backs of the DBs running away from him, still in pass coverage. Nice!
If Javy can't get there, or misses the tackle, the RB is off to the races. 2 of the LBs seem to have more pass coverage responsibility than run stopping responsibility. If you don't have a fire breathing run stopper in there somewhere you are vulnerable to the run. It also seemed to me last year that Barron Miles did not have the speed to get over in time to make the tackle 15 yards down the field (last shot). The runner just flew past him.
On the off tackle run, it is bit wide for the DTs, especially if they too get sealed inside with angle blocking.
I think it's pretty obvious that a 6'1 220lb DE won't cut it in any league....as evidenced by getting pancaked in practice. Makes you wonder how badly he's be dominated in a real game. Unfortunately, if Wally's looking to show what a "gem" he found south of the border, Butler may be kept. Make zero sense since that would give them 5 DE's. Butler & the team would be much better served at LB. As for Rayford, I still find it hard to believe he can spend a year on the PR and start the next season.
I don't trust Valli and I'd much rather see a NI used at G. Or at LB if Glatt continues to be as useless at stopping the run as he was last year. Then again, he's one of Wally's golden boys so that's not going to happen.
I don't trust Valli and I'd much rather see a NI used at G. Or at LB if Glatt continues to be as useless at stopping the run as he was last year. Then again, he's one of Wally's golden boys so that's not going to happen.