Race in Football

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ryant
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Unfortunately, this may be Blitz' way of understanding why, despite all Blitz' lengthy arguements, Wally would choose Dickenson over Printers, and now Pierce over Jackson. DD never had Blitz' support (even to the point of hatred, or at least intense dislike) despite his insistence, because DD wasn't his chosen guy. Hopefully Buck does not find himself in the same boat this year (Geroy is still on that list I'm sure). It may be hard for us to understand why Wally makes certain decisions, but we have to take in consideration that he sees everything...the meetings, the sideline interactons, the execution of the plays versus the calls, the litle bumps and bruises that we are not always privy to, the demeanor and attitute of the player on and off the field, the opinions of other coaches, and yes, in this day and age of SMS, the contract situations. We, as fans, only see the occasional practise, the interviews and the games and base our opinions on that....not always the entire story.

I don't always agree with Blitz, or the way he sometimes comes across, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his intention was not to call the fans racists.
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bclions16
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I don't always agree with Blitz, or the way he sometimes comes across, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt that his intention was not to call the fans racists.
Well I gave him the benefit of the doubt too in my first reply to his racial comments. He ignored that, and stated the same stupid sentiment several more times (I highlighted a few choice quotes in an earlier post). Blitz has made himself very well understood on this point: he believes Leos fans choose the white QB because he is white. Just read his comments again, I shouldn't have to convince you.
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ryant
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You're right , bclions16
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notahomer
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Well as far as the race issue I don't care what 'race' our QB is. I voted Buck but if Jackson gets the tap on the shoulder...I'm cheering him on. I think these two guys (JJ & BP) are working on a Ray/Maas-type of scenario. They seem like nice guys and they both showed they could do the job in the Calgary pre-season game.
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lion24
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I think the CFL and CFL fans have always welcomed "black" QB's as well as QB's that supposedly did not fit the NFL as far as size like Flutie, Garcia and I don't think it has ever been an issue so this whole discussion is a little surprising to me. Warren Moon came to the CFL as he was given a chance and he has said many times he is very thankful to the CFL and the fans as he was accepted here first before the NFL finally came to their senses. It was not all that long ago that it was a huge deal that Doug Williams was a "black" QB starting in the Super Bowl and it seemed funny to me as it has never really even been something I thought was a big deal?

I guess I just don't get Blitz on this one as I don't really feel the race of football players in the CFL has ever really been a big issue?
Thank you for everything you did for OUR Lions Mr.Ackles, we will never forget you...RIP
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Larry Key
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I am a fan of both QB's. Don't know why people are making something out of nothing. This isn't Dave vs Casey... let us get over the past. I love Buck's game for his game management with the short and medium passes and with JJ, I love his cannon and his mobility and durability. Two different styles, two guys... when one falters, bring in the other guy which will be a great "change up" for defenses to defend. We have the best of both worlds Lion's fans! :rockin:
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lion24
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Larry Key wrote:I am a fan of both QB's. Don't know why people are making something out of nothing. This isn't Dave vs Casey... let us get over the past. I love Buck's game for his game management with the short and medium passes and with JJ, I love his cannon and his mobility and durability. Two different styles, two guys... when one falters, bring in the other guy which will be a great "change up" for defenses to defend. We have the best of both worlds Lion's fans! :rockin:

:whs: I couldn't have summed it up any better!
Thank you for everything you did for OUR Lions Mr.Ackles, we will never forget you...RIP
Blitz
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lion24 wrote:I think the CFL and CFL fans have always welcomed "black" QB's as well as QB's that supposedly did not fit the NFL as far as size like Flutie, Garcia and I don't think it has ever been an issue so this whole discussion is a little surprising to me. Warren Moon came to the CFL as he was given a chance and he has said many times he is very thankful to the CFL and the fans as he was accepted here first before the NFL finally came to their senses. It was not all that long ago that it was a huge deal that Doug Williams was a "black" QB starting in the Super Bowl and it seemed funny to me as it has never really even been something I thought was a big deal?

I guess I just don't get Blitz on this one as I don't really feel the race of football players in the CFL has ever really been a big issue?
I'll provide a few examples!!

First of all...I don't believe, by saying that there is a tendancy for fans to relate more to a white quarterback than a black quarterback means that that fans are racist. There is a tendancy for all people of different color to relate to each other more than a different colour. Colour also brings a variety of other variables to the table including more common experiences, history, culture, etc.

I believe that black players have had a more positive experience in the CFL throughout it's history than in the NFL. However, that doesn't mean that racism has never been a topic of discussion in the CFL. Cookie Gilchrist, one of the best players to ever play in the CFL still isn't in the Hall of Fame because he has refused, due to what he says was the racism he experienced in Canada. Chuck Ealey spoke about his experiences with racism. Cal Murphy ran into huge problems in Winnipeg at one time, as a number of his players accused him of being racist. One can talk all day about Warren Moon, who appreciated the opportunity he got in Canada, but as one of the best quarterbacks to ever play in the CFL, he was still forced to share the quarterback duties often with inferior quaarterbacks like Tom Wilkinson and Bruce Lemmerman. When the Dickenson/Printers controversy took place here in B.C. it was always black players like Barrin Simpson, Geroy Simon, and Jarious Jackson who stuck up for him in the media. There have been over the years, numbers of occasions in the CFL, where the issue of racism has raised it's head. Roy Shivers, our own Director of Player Personell, has spoken about the issue of racism, both in the United States and in Canada, including his belief that it exists in the CFL.

To believe that racism never occurs in Canada on occasion, or even in the CFL, or even within fans who cheer for the Leos is laughable. Leos fans are only a microcosm of society and there have and likely always will be elements of racism mixed in. Do I believe most Leo fans are racist? I feel confident that the vast majority are not. Fans come to watch football players play and they really don't care, as long as they can make plays on a football field. Quarterback controversies, however, because of their intensity and because personality becomes a part of the equation at times, regarding who we want to be the starter in a close contest, means we come to identify with one of the two quarterbacks a little more than the other. I still believe it's easier for us to identify with a white kid from Northern California than a black kid from Mississipi.

I haven't softened anything. I don't believe most football fans are racist and there have only been a couple of occasions on Lionbackers where I felt undertones of it...and that was during the Printers days here. However, I also don't believe that every single B.C. Lions fan is a wonderful person. In fact I know differently.. because I've heard comments in the stands directed towards opposition players or even our own players that could defintitely be considered racist. However, most Leos fans couldn't give a dam whether a player is white, black, or from the planet Mars as long as he helps us win.

As for "Wally knowing best" of course he's in a position to know best when making decisions at the quarterback position or any other position. His winning record is more than proof that he gets it right most of the time. On the other hand...why even have boards like this, where we play arm chair quarterback and second guess on occasion...we'll just post "Wally knows best every time" until everyone is bored to death.

My post, that became controversial, wasn't about Wally's decison. My preferences were clear..start Pierce in the first half of games and Jackson in the second half. If a starter was deemed to be necessary start the season with Jackson and at the right time make Pierce the starter this season. However, I'm also very happy for Buck Pierce.

My comments were based more on the fact that Wally and every Leo coach who commented in the media called this decision close to a coin toss but on Lionbackers there was 61% for Buck and 25% for Jarious. It wasn't even close, in what one would have assumed would be a much closer poll.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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lion24
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Blitz, I have a lot of respect for you and I think many others do as well on here with your wealth of knowledge. I just think it caught many of us off guard the topic that you brought up and the issues of race will always be a hot topic. I don't believe there are absolutely no race problems in Canada and the CFL only stating that it is not as big a problem in Canada as the States. I don't assume you are racist at all by your comments but it is an issue that will bring quick response and it has. I appreciate everything you bring to this forum and keep it up :beauty:
Thank you for everything you did for OUR Lions Mr.Ackles, we will never forget you...RIP
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bclions16
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Blitz, please read my replies to your posts. You are twisting the argument, slightly moving your rebuttal, as if you didn't say exactly what you did, and as if I didn't call you to account accurately for what you said.

No one ever said all Leos fans are purrfect and that racism doesn't exist! Don't rebut an argument no one ever made! In fact I already made that point clear, so who exactly are you arguing against? Or are you trying to come to terms with your own thoughts on this matter? You described Leos fans as generally racist, and we can all read this thread to see it. It takes a big man to admit he was wrong. How about giving up on the long winded posts and just admitting that you were quite offensive?

You said Leos fans - not some fans, not NFL fans, not CFL fans, not some other random group - you specified Leos fans, yes Leos fans as being racist by picking a QB because he is white. YOU ARE WRONG. You mad ea blanket generalisation. Part of any group may be racist, but Leos fans as a whole are not. Period.

The other far secondary problem with this tiff is that you feel so superior in your football knowledge, that you defend your knowledge and your pick of JJ ("JJ will be the starter!!") by accusing all other Leos fans of being so massively ignorant of football, that they must rely on savage bigotry to pick who they cheer for!

Grow up.
Last edited by bclions16 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lion24
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We all got upset because the media caused the Printers/DD controversy and now on this site we are starting a controversy between Buck and JJ based on race?? It seems to me that both are quite willing to work together and Lion fans are debating about race of QB's. I think we all need to take a deep breath and just be excited about the season to come.........RELAX :beauty:
Thank you for everything you did for OUR Lions Mr.Ackles, we will never forget you...RIP
Blitz
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bclions16 wrote:Blitz, please read my replies to your posts. You are twisting the argument, slightly moving your rebuttal, as if you didn't say exactly what you did, and as if I didn't call you to account accurately for what you said.

No one ever said all Leos fans are purrfect and that racism doesn't exist! Don't rebut an argument no one ever made! In fact I already made that point clear, so who exactly are you arguing against? Or are you trying to come to terms with your own thoughts on this matter? You described Leos fans as generally racist, and we can all read this thread to see it. It takes a big man to admit he was wrong. How about giving up on the long winded posts and just admitting that you were quite offensive?

You said Leos fans - not some fans, not NFL fans, not CFL fans, not some other random group - you specified Leos fans, yes Leos fans as being racist by picking a QB because he is white. YOU ARE WRONG. You mad ea blanket generalisation. Part of any group may be racist, but Leos fans as a whole are not. Period.

The other far secondary problem with this tiff is that you feel so superior in your football knowledge, that you defend your knowledge and your pick of JJ ("JJ will be the starter!!") by accusing all other Leos fans of being so massively ignorant of football, that they must rely on savage bigotry to pick who they cheer for!

Grow up.
I'd love you to say it to my face because you'd only say it once...if you ever had the courage to say it at all!!

Everyone can read my posts and what I said. I have never said 1) Leos fans are racist..I said the majority identify more with a white quarterback...there is a difference 2) I have never said all other Leo fans are massively ignorant of football in any way...those are your words.

I don't know you...I have never made a personal comment to you....You want to pick a fight...so name it!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
box1120
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I don't consider myself articulate enough to really participate in this debate but I do appreciate it.
I'm sure many on this board also appreciate what Blitz has contributed here; his "coaching" of the Lionbackers team a couple of years ago was the most hilarious writing I have ever read on a web page. Obviously he doesn't need any help to defend his position but in bringing forward his insight into the submerged racism that exists in this society and even on this board seems to leave a lot of people in denial. A great contribution Blitz, thank you.
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CatsEyes
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This thread is cracking the ice a little, and is being watched closely. If you guys are going to have personal discussions, please keep it to PMs. If you want to discuss the topic at hand, please continue. Thanks! :roar:
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hopefully buck will have a great game(and i fully expect that!) He will start quick (7-0) after the 1st drive! (unless chap screws that up) dont forget about joe smith!
Buck will be player of the week so we dont have to worry about whos starting game 2! Why would you start JJ when his slow starts are painfull? Great qb to come off the bench in cas eof injury. most cfl teams will need 3 qbs in the season!
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