Lions name Jarious Jackson offensive coordinator and QB coach, round out coaching staff

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B.C.FAN
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Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:52 pm

Sir Purrcival wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:22 pm
I also find it interesting how little I hear of teams clamouring for former Wally assistants. Sure there are interviews, occasional elevations but really how many former Wally assistants have gone on to success in the CFL? Higgins maybe and Hufnagel both of whom stopped being Wally products many years ago. The only one now still active in the league is Hufnagel. Does that not seem odd for a HC who has been in the league as long as Wally.
Interesting point. To be fair, Mike Benevides and Barron Miles are active in the league in Edmonton. And prominent ex-players such as Dave Dickenson and Buck Pierce have had success as coaches in Calgary and Winnipeg, respectively.
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Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:14 pm

The key in this discussion is whether Buono will allow Jackson to run his own offence or to play the same old stale offence that we've seen the past few years.

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Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:34 pm

B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:52 pm
Sir Purrcival wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:22 pm
I also find it interesting how little I hear of teams clamouring for former Wally assistants. Sure there are interviews, occasional elevations but really how many former Wally assistants have gone on to success in the CFL? Higgins maybe and Hufnagel both of whom stopped being Wally products many years ago. The only one now still active in the league is Hufnagel. Does that not seem odd for a HC who has been in the league as long as Wally.
Interesting point. To be fair, Mike Benevides and Barron Miles are active in the league in Edmonton. And prominent ex-players such as Dave Dickenson and Buck Pierce have had success as coaches in Calgary and Winnipeg, respectively.
DD wasn't ever an coach for WB, nor was BP. I forgot about Benevides but I'm not entirely sure I would call his tenure in the coaching ranks as having been exceedingly successful. Even Higgin's Grey Cup with Edmonton appears to have been a one off and I don't remember him being involved with any other. Huff at least has 2 to his name. It's just anecdotal of course but it could well suggest something about WB. There are great players and coaches who operate by gut and intuition. The problem with those kinds of individuals is you can't easily teach intuition. Wally isn't an X and O guy so you have to ask what is he then?
My personal assessment is that he is a tough nose, discipline kind of coach. A react in the moment, not a deep thinker kind of guy. Not particularly innovative but has a solid handle on playing hard and playing as a team. I think he coaches as he played but unfortunately, the way he played is in some ways obsolete as the game has evolved as have the quality and abilities of the athletes. It is no longer enough to play tough, disciplined football in and of itself. You have to get inside the mind of the opponent, dissect what they are doing, come up with a reaction to it and implement it. We've said it time and again that Lion's opponents seem to know what we are doing before we do, that we often fail to make adjustments to what our opposition is doing. We have under the Wally era seen perplexing game plans that have failed from pillar to post without the slightest indication of mid-game adjustments. While sticking with the tried and true might have sufficed in another time and place, you simply can't coach that way today and expect any real measure of success. It is far beyond the time Wally could have embraced this philosophy. He prefers to talk about a lack of execution rather than failures in coaching. So will a former player in JJ who never struck me as being that innovative as a QB, be a tonic in the innovation dept? It's only fair to give him a chance and maybe he has evolved but the proof of the pudding is in the eating so it is said. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.
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Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:40 pm

now if the lions also sign Jamel Johnson, Josh Johnson, and Jovon Johnson, then we got us a J Team
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Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:19 am

I like this move. Always liked Jarious as a player, and it's not like he can be a worse OC than Khari Jones was.

Jarious is also a proven winner. He's a 4x Grey Cup champ, winning three times as a player, and another as the Eskimos QB coach in 2015. If anything, it's a positive sign that he knows how to win in this league.

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Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:10 pm

Sir Purrcival wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:34 pm
So will a former player in JJ who never struck me as being that innovative as a QB, be a tonic in the innovation dept? It's only fair to give him a chance and maybe he has evolved but the proof of the pudding is in the eating so it is said. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.
Hey Sir P. I agree with much of what you stated. Just curious though what you meant when you said you didn't think JJ was innovative as a QB? Wouldn't a QB's innovation be pretty much solely the function of the OC (unless you're talking about a QB like Russell Wilson who is creative in how he escapes the pass rush. But that is more pure instincts and athleticism than anything else). IMHO.

I did like that JJ was a "vertical" passer who liked the deep ball. I would be more inclined to judge his innovation though on how well his QBs have adapted to their team's game plans. And it would appear that he's had some pretty good success in Edmonton and Regina. Happy to have him back in the Den. :thup:


DH :cool:
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Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:08 pm

Sir Purrcival wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:22 pm
Hambone wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:45 am
I don't know if loyalty is the correct term all the time. Ultimately the HC and his coordinators have to share the same football philosophies. If they do and results are positive then they will support, believe and be loyal to each other. If they have big differences in how they want to run an offense or defense then the relationship and any loyalty will evaporate.
I sure hope you are right. What I was trying to say albeit awkwardly is that Various Jarious as I used to call him in his QB days is a team guy. He didn't really strike as an on field General, more a high ranking Colonel. He was competent but basically did as he was told. That was then and this is now so to be fair, he will have a chance to prove his abilities as an OC (maybe). Again it depends a great deal on how Wally lets the team run. I have little doubt that even in his last year, Wally isn't going to change his style now. I also find it interesting how little I hear of teams clamouring for former Wally assistants. Sure there are interviews, occasional elevations but really how many former Wally assistants have gone on to success in the CFL? Higgins maybe and Hufnagel both of whom stopped being Wally products many years ago. The only one now still active in the league is Hufnagel. Does that not seem odd for a HC who has been in the league as long as Wally.
I'd not credit Wally for Hufnagel's coaching success (but I could be persuaded).

But you hit on a key point. Who has he developed to lead and be a HC?

Wally is a transactional leader. You do you the job and you stay and no doubt like he views the players where all these people are men so you don't provide the mentoring or direction. Not sure Wally sees himself as the coach/mentor to coaches as he sure didn't get Mike Benevides ready to lead.

I'm doing some research on types of goals (process, outcome, performance) and as Marc Trestman in the final weeks of the season and pre East final and GC game kept referring to players buying into the process, it sent me looking into articles on him.

One story attributes Marc Trestman to the Bud Grant tree much like there are coaches from the Bill Walsh tree. Another story lists Trestman as part of the 6 or so HCs that worked with George Seifert.
In 1985, at the age of 29, Trestman got his first NFL job, hired by Grant, the legendary Minnesota Vikings coach, to work with the team's running backs. Four years later, he became the youngest offensive coordinator in the league, selected by Art Modell to direct a Cleveland Browns offense that featured current Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome.

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Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:35 am

David wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:10 pm
Sir Purrcival wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:34 pm
So will a former player in JJ who never struck me as being that innovative as a QB, be a tonic in the innovation dept? It's only fair to give him a chance and maybe he has evolved but the proof of the pudding is in the eating so it is said. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.
Hey Sir P. I agree with much of what you stated. Just curious though what you meant when you said you didn't think JJ was innovative as a QB? Wouldn't a QB's innovation be pretty much solely the function of the OC (unless you're talking about a QB like Russell Wilson who is creative in how he escapes the pass rush. But that is more pure instincts and athleticism than anything else). IMHO.

I did like that JJ was a "vertical" passer who liked the deep ball. I would be more inclined to judge his innovation though on how well his QBs have adapted to their team's game plans. And it would appear that he's had some pretty good success in Edmonton and Regina. Happy to have him back in the Den. :thup:


DH :cool:
This is not to demean JJ but compare him to DaveD. He could take lemons and make lemonade (when he was healthy). He didn't have the physical tools that a lot of QB's have (not a big guy, or the most powerful arm, or a fast runner), yet he could size up a situation in an instant and adjust.

Now take JJ. Huge arm, much more physical presence than DD and not bad on his feet either. What was lacking? He just didn't seem that quick cognitively. If a play didn't unfold exactly as expected, he seemed to take way too much time figuring out his 2nd and 3rd reads and then even if he did get the play off, he was often off target or drilled the ball so hard that it would bounce right off the receiver. He just didn't make those quick, adjustments.

To be fair, many struggle in that department. As a player, he didn't seem to be that quick of a thinker nor finesse enough to sustain things. Was that all his fault? No, coaches call the plays but coaches also get ideas about what a player is capable of and so will tailor the game plan to what they think the personnel can handle.

So the question really becomes, how much of the player is in the coach? I always imagine that an OC spends time just running play after play in his head, thinking about this or that variation and how to react. How well can that coach think outside the box and be creative when that didn't seem to be an especially strong point as a player? The answer is, "I don't know". I will be interested to see.

He certainly is experienced enough and he won't have to make those split second decisions the same way that a QB does when he has a DE bearing down on him intent in turning him into a pancake. But has he the ability to take what a defence is throwing at him, analyze it quickly and come up with adjustments and implement them?

And more important, will Wally let him? History and old habits can be a beootch. JJ was very much a team guy and a loyal soldier. Can he, will he truly, take the reigns of the offense or will he try to coach within the broader parameters that Wally has enforced for way too many years, seemingly suffocating things like risk taking or creativity.

I hope he does well. He is a likeable guy and I would be happy to see him attain that next level for his sake as well as the teams. There is however an awful lot of pressure on him and that is something that as a player he didn't always succeed with. We'll see.
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Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:49 pm

Khari Jones linked to Riders OC/QB Coaching job along with Travis Moore as WR Coach according to 3Down Nation

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Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:59 pm

David wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:10 am
Blitz wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:22 am
Jarious has looked after the passing game and quarterbacks while being an assistant under Chris Jones. Jackson said, in an interview, that Wally is 'old school' but you know what he is thinking.
I love listening to euphemisms in pro sports interviews, Blitz. There are two emerging that I've heard from our new hires.

Wally is "old school" (translation? He's as stubborn as sh*t!)

Jonathon has "all the tools" (translation? Hasn't lived up to his potential. Too inconsistent).

DH :cool:
No sh^t David..:)
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Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:22 pm

The question really becomes, how much of the player is in the coach? I always imagine that an OC spends time just running play after play in his head, thinking about this or that variation and how to react. How well can that coach think outside the box and be creative when that didn't seem to be an especially strong point as a player? The answer is, "I don't know". I will be interested to see.

He certainly is experienced enough and he won't have to make those split second decisions the same way that a QB does when he has a DE bearing down on him intent in turning him into a pancake. But has he the ability to take what a defence is throwing at him, analyze it quickly and come up with adjustments and implement them?

And more important, will Wally let him? History and old habits can be a beootch. JJ was very much a team guy and a loyal soldier. Can he, will he truly, take the reigns of the offense or will he try to coach within the broader parameters that Wally has enforced for way too many years, seemingly suffocating things like risk taking or creativity.
Sir Percival

They are all good questions Sir Percival. Like you, I didn't view Jarious as a quick thinking cerebral type of quarterback but more of an athletic one. He was very good in the fourth quarter though. He often displayed a lot of poise in close games coming down to the wire.

But cerebral players don't always make great coaches and often players who were not great players turn into very good coaches.

The next question is "Will Wally give Jarious the tools to the offence. The odds say NO. The situation, being Wally's last season and his return for 2018, mainly based upon wanting to leave the game differently than had he retired at the end of this season, provides some hope for change, but I wouldn't bet on it. Jarious was hired, in part, because he was a loyal soldier for Wally as a player.

I like the decision because Jarious has leadership abilities and because he has a way about him that commands respect. Khari did not have a lot of presence about him. Jarious does.

It will be interesting.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)

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Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:39 pm

Sir Purrcival wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:34 pm
B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:52 pm
Sir Purrcival wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:22 pm
I also find it interesting how little I hear of teams clamouring for former Wally assistants. Sure there are interviews, occasional elevations but really how many former Wally assistants have gone on to success in the CFL? Higgins maybe and Hufnagel both of whom stopped being Wally products many years ago. The only one now still active in the league is Hufnagel. Does that not seem odd for a HC who has been in the league as long as Wally.
Interesting point. To be fair, Mike Benevides and Barron Miles are active in the league in Edmonton. And prominent ex-players such as Dave Dickenson and Buck Pierce have had success as coaches in Calgary and Winnipeg, respectively.
DD wasn't ever an coach for WB, nor was BP. I forgot about Benevides but I'm not entirely sure I would call his tenure in the coaching ranks as having been exceedingly successful. Even Higgin's Grey Cup with Edmonton appears to have been a one off and I don't remember him being involved with any other. Huff at least has 2 to his name. It's just anecdotal of course but it could well suggest something about WB. There are great players and coaches who operate by gut and intuition. The problem with those kinds of individuals is you can't easily teach intuition. Wally isn't an X and O guy so you have to ask what is he then?
My personal assessment is that he is a tough nose, discipline kind of coach. A react in the moment, not a deep thinker kind of guy. Not particularly innovative but has a solid handle on playing hard and playing as a team. I think he coaches as he played but unfortunately, the way he played is in some ways obsolete as the game has evolved as have the quality and abilities of the athletes. It is no longer enough to play tough, disciplined football in and of itself. You have to get inside the mind of the opponent, dissect what they are doing, come up with a reaction to it and implement it. We've said it time and again that Lion's opponents seem to know what we are doing before we do, that we often fail to make adjustments to what our opposition is doing. We have under the Wally era seen perplexing game plans that have failed from pillar to post without the slightest indication of mid-game adjustments. While sticking with the tried and true might have sufficed in another time and place, you simply can't coach that way today and expect any real measure of success. It is far beyond the time Wally could have embraced this philosophy. He prefers to talk about a lack of execution rather than failures in coaching. So will a former player in JJ who never struck me as being that innovative as a QB, be a tonic in the innovation dept? It's only fair to give him a chance and maybe he has evolved but the proof of the pudding is in the eating so it is said. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.
All that notwithstanding I think any player who gets into coaching will be tremendously influenced by coaches he played for.
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leo4life
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Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:30 pm

Jarious will have plenty to bring to the table after working in Edmonton & Regina...he stepped outside Wally world so lets see what he brings in creativity/scheme/playcalling and working on the fly...unless Bouno makes him another puppet Cordinater

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Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:38 pm

leo4life wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:30 pm
Jarious will have plenty to bring to the table after working in Edmonton & Regina...he stepped outside Wally world so lets see what he brings in creativity/scheme/playcalling and working on the fly...unless Bouno makes him another puppet Cordinater
Jarious played for Wally for 7 years. He coached for a year albeit under Benevides who some accused of being a puppet. He knows exactly what being a coordinator in Wally's world means. If he thinks that entails being a puppet why would he bother taking the job in the first place? Or is he just selling his soul to take the job for the pay raise?
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leo4life
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Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:25 am

Riders Fans ranked OC's in CFL and no surprise Lions ranked #8 LOL.However they said its cause Jarious is unproven...it was a toss up between Tresrman and Dickenson for #1

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