Whither Jonathon Jennings?

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Toppy Vann
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:21 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:51 pm
Jennings is reportedly talking to the Green Bay Packers and the Minnesota Vikings.
Wow.... I guess talking means something but in my view he'd be unwise to go NFL right now. He's coming off an inconsistent year where most observers and coaches felt he wasn't seeing the field well and at his size the NFL could be worse with far fewer reps to prove anything let alone stay.

Not sure if you heard June Jones on a TSN game saying the list of players who he knew and coached and who he advised to go straight to the CFL one of whom was the ONLY player who heeded his advice - Bo Levi Mitchell. Sol E was one who didn't take it his advice but who seems satisfied now.

I'm not sure but I think that BLM in Calgary has figured it out that he'd be dumb to not win a few championships (if he could) before he tried the NFL and I'm guessing that he'd even consider being the top gun in the CFL and not trying to venture south.

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CardiacKid
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Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:11 pm

TheLionKing wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:12 pm
Trade for Collaros ? That guy didn't win a game this year.
Collaros is broken and shattered. Ridden hard and put away wet by Austin, tuned out by his team-mates who got fed up with his constant beaking in their ears.

He needs to go someplace where no one ever heard of him or has no expectations and start all over.

Ultimately that is too bad for us as fans of the game and too bad for a league that depends on healthy, exciting QBs.

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Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:30 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:51 pm
Jennings is reportedly talking to the Green Bay Packers and the Minnesota Vikings.
Interesting. I'm somewhat surprised that there is interest given the season that he's just had.

Blitz
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:54 am

TheLionKing wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:30 pm
The_Pauser wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:51 pm
Jennings is reportedly talking to the Green Bay Packers and the Minnesota Vikings.
Interesting. I'm somewhat surprised that there is interest given the season that he's just had.
I'm not surprised in that Jennings has an elite arm and the NFL game, requires a quarterback who can throw a football with accuracy and velocity and Jennings can throw with both into tight windows.

The NFL would be looking at his raw talent and deciding whether they could develop him.

However, Jennings would be wise to stay in the CFL. Its very long odds for him to make it on an NFL roster and very, very long odds that he would ever get to play.

For International players, the NFL game is played in their home country, for most, their dream would be to play in the NFL, and the potential money (including pension) along with the limelight is huge.

If Jennings was signed by an NFL team and actually made the team, he would likely be a practice roster player or a clipboard holder. If he wants to lead a team, the CFL is his best opportunity.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)

DanoT
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:54 am

Interest in Jennings from a couple of NFL teams might be nothing more than his agent pulling in some favours from an NFL scout and then Jennings becomes nothing more than a "camp arm" who gets cut at the end of TC.

I seem to recall that part way through their CFL careers both Dickenson and Ray got NFL looks due to their accurate passing skills, but both were penciled in as NFL career backups due to their small physical size. Both decided to return to the CFL where they could be starters (and eventual HOFers). So, if Jennings is smart, he will stay in the CFL.

TheLionKing
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:33 pm

Blitz wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:54 am
TheLionKing wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:30 pm
The_Pauser wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:51 pm
Jennings is reportedly talking to the Green Bay Packers and the Minnesota Vikings.
Interesting. I'm somewhat surprised that there is interest given the season that he's just had.
I'm not surprised in that Jennings has an elite arm and the NFL game, requires a quarterback who can throw a football with accuracy and velocity and Jennings can throw with both into tight windows.

The NFL would be looking at his raw talent and deciding whether they could develop him.

However, Jennings would be wise to stay in the CFL. Its very long odds for him to make it on an NFL roster and very, very long odds that he would ever get to play.

For International players, the NFL game is played in their home country, for most, their dream would be to play in the NFL, and the potential money (including pension) along with the limelight is huge.

If Jennings was signed by an NFL team and actually made the team, he would likely be a practice roster player or a clipboard holder. If he wants to lead a team, the CFL is his best opportunity.
Agree, hope it's not another Casey Printers.

B.C.FAN
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Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:49 pm

Jennings was the CFL's 11th rated quarterback this year, and was last among starters, and he led the league in interceptions for the second straight year. His poor decision-making, more than any other factor, is why the Lions missed the playoffs. He's coming off a shoulder injury and he's short by NFL standards. That's not the kind of resume that would land someone a decent shot at an NFL job.
"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy

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Toppy Vann
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Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:48 am

I'm of the mind as suggested here that it might be his agent talking versus him really believing he's ready for the NFL. If he thinks he's NFL ready he's either deluding himself or believes that he'll be fine again if the team in front of him is actually blocking consistently.

I'm with those who think he'd be wise to stay in the CFL but first off get his game back by getting some off season coaching at the Jeff Garcia QB camp as Bo Levi did so successfully a few seasons back pre - Stamps naming him or Tate their starter.

If he does go to the CFL, it does bring back reminders of Casey Printers and that sure didn't help his career. That was ironic in that kept invoking the name of the great Warren Moon - yet ignored his history entirely as IIRC Moon was here 7 years and had something like 5 team GC wins and he worked with some decent other QBs and players so he wasn't running for his life all the time.

Jennings was in a situation not entirely of his doing but his becoming shaky back there could be a pattern if he's not in a better situation.

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WestCoastJoe
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Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:01 pm

Would our record have been better under Lulay?

A healthy Lulay would not have saved the defence.

A healthy Lulay would not have saved the STs.

Lulay got injured, once again. He was unavailable for duty.

Would the relatively immobile Bo Levi Mitchell have been able to make our O highly functioning? It is not just the QB. The O needs pass protection. It needs good route schemes. It needs separation by the receivers. It needs an effective attack plan, focusing on vulnerabilities. It is a package. Our overall offensive package was a fail.

Change Jennings out, and, IMO our season would still have been a failure.

This CFL fan looks at ownership and coaching as our big fails this year.

How about Ross or Gale in our offence? They would need some magic, which would probably be missing.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

B.C.FAN
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Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:13 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:01 pm
Would our record have been better under Lulay?

A healthy Lulay would not have saved the defence.

A healthy Lulay would not have saved the STs.

Lulay got injured, once again. He was unavailable for duty.

Would the relatively immobile Bo Levi Mitchell have been able to make our O highly functioning? It is not just the QB. The O needs pass protection. It needs good route schemes. It needs separation by the receivers. It needs an effective attack plan, focusing on vulnerabilities. It is a package. Our overall offensive package was a fail.

Change Jennings out, and, IMO our season would still have been a failure.

This CFL fan looks at ownership and coaching as our big fails this year.

How about Ross or Gale in our offence? They would need some magic, which would probably be missing.

Just IMO ...
It's all speculation, of course. But consider that the Lions lost 7 games by 7 points or less, and that they generated an average of 100 more yards of offence under Lulay than Jennings. If that translates into a bit more scoring in close games, the Lions could easily have been an 11- or 12-win team again. Not to mention, they would have had a lot more confidence than the deflated bunch that always seemed to look for new ways to lose in the second half of the season.

My main wish is that Lulay and Jennings both come back next year and that the head coach, whoever that is, feels free to start whichever quarterback gives the team its best chance to win.
"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy

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WestCoastJoe
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Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:30 pm

B.C.FAN wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:13 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:01 pm
Would our record have been better under Lulay?

A healthy Lulay would not have saved the defence.

A healthy Lulay would not have saved the STs.

Lulay got injured, once again. He was unavailable for duty.

Would the relatively immobile Bo Levi Mitchell have been able to make our O highly functioning? It is not just the QB. The O needs pass protection. It needs good route schemes. It needs separation by the receivers. It needs an effective attack plan, focusing on vulnerabilities. It is a package. Our overall offensive package was a fail.

Change Jennings out, and, IMO our season would still have been a failure.

This CFL fan looks at ownership and coaching as our big fails this year.

How about Ross or Gale in our offence? They would need some magic, which would probably be missing.

Just IMO ...
It's all speculation, of course. But consider that the Lions lost 7 games by 7 points or less, and that they generated an average of 100 more yards of offence under Lulay than Jennings. If that translates into a bit more scoring in close games, the Lions could easily have been an 11- or 12-win team again. Not to mention, they would have had a lot more confidence than the deflated bunch that always seemed to look for new ways to lose in the second half of the season.

My main wish is that Lulay and Jennings both come back next year and that the head coach, whoever that is, feels free to start whichever quarterback gives the team its best chance to win.
When a team wins, quarterbacks get credit, even if the QB mostly manages the game.

When a team loses, quarterbacks take heat.

Lulay is one consideration. Was he doomed to eventual injury this year? Could he have sustained his career-best performance level?

Our offence failed this year.

Our defence failed this year.

Our special teams failed this year.

Jennings had a bad year in 2017. In 2016 he looked like a future MOP. In 2015, he won the starter's job. This fan thinks we failed to give him the support he needed, with a well designed offence. IMO Jennings failed to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Could Lulay have made our offence hum all year, assuming he stayed healthy? Maybe. And, maybe defences would have adjusted to the new, improved Lulay, slowing him down. Defences around the league adjust. I think they would have slowed Travis Lulay down. Could we re-adjust once again? Maybe. Offence vs defence. One is on top. The other adjusts and gets an advantage. Then another adjustment. Teams have a good book on Jennings. We need to adjust our offence.

This fan, as noted, has always been very supportive of all our QBs. IMO we tend to throw them to the wolves. Sacks, hits and hurries, followed by injuries. In our offence, it seems to me all our QBs have shown some shell shock, some battle fatigue. Dickenson got pounded. Printers got pounded. Pierce got pounded. Lulay got pounded. Jennings got pounded. To their credit, they all coped, to a degree. Their courage never wained.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

maxlion
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Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:54 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:01 pm
Our overall offensive package was a fail.
Except when Lulay was playing. Then it was the best the league.

I think the coaches were expecting a bit too much of Jennings. They let him be the leader when they really needed to shelter him. When they did shelter him, they were criticized unfairly for simplifying the offense too much.

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WestCoastJoe
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Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:08 pm

maxlion wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:54 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:01 pm
Our overall offensive package was a fail.
Except when Lulay was playing. Then it was the best the league.

I think the coaches were expecting a bit too much of Jennings. They let him be the leader when they really needed to shelter him. When they did shelter him, they were criticized unfairly for simplifying the offense too much.
Credit Lulay? Or credit the offensive scheme? Would defences have adjusted to Lulay, who seemed even better on his return than in his MOP season?

Great overall offensive system? Or, Lulay made the system look great? Jennings sometimes made the system look great, and sometimes he failed to do so?

Great overall system? Not IMO, as noted for details such as poor pass protection, lack of separation for receivers, predictability, etc.

I support our QBs, throughout the years, and right now, Lulay and Jennings. I tend more to focus on our planning, preparation and adjustments, or the lack thereof.

My last word, max, on this ''quarterback vs system'' or ''quarterback vs quarterback'' issue.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

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Toppy Vann
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Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:29 pm

maxlion wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:54 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:01 pm
Our overall offensive package was a fail.
Except when Lulay was playing. Then it was the best the league.

I think the coaches were expecting a bit too much of Jennings. They let him be the leader when they really needed to shelter him. When they did shelter him, they were criticized unfairly for simplifying the offense too much.
The Lions have the most predictable offense in the CFL and even Wally B has admitted that when certain players come in, it added to that problem.

The simplification of what is too simple now was precisely what not to do do. They needed play calling that fit situations such as screens to attack zones YET only the TSN broadcasters and colour guy would be saying this - and no calls.

Predictable and simple was what led to too many 2nd and longs and then a call that either wasn't designed to reach the first down marker or one that didn't speak to what they knew the DEF was going to run against them.

DanoT
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Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:12 pm

Lulay's role as Jennings mentor, in the act explaining the nuances of the CFL game, also served as a review for Lulay. His return to the field and the success that followed was achieved by either making very quick throws or sprinting out of the pocket (running for his life). He is in fact more in his comfort zone rolling out than staying in the pocket. He even corrected his habit of always rolling to his right and made some great plays rolling left.

Jennings, imo prefers to stay in the pocket and it just doesn't work well with the Lions O line play and play calling.

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