Als spiraling

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

don corleone
Rookie
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:41 am

Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:11 am

Imagine it was a fire or be fired situation.

Good on Chapdelaine and Thorpe for standing up.

Not sure Kavis even speaks french.

I point my finger at Andrew Wettenhall who has been meddling since he showed up in the CFL. Gonna be tough on morale I feel.

AC still standing so maybe something there.

User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:01 am

Spiraling is right! 4th mid-season coaching change (this time 3) in 5 years.

Now reading post BC there was a players only meeting so the coup and "players chafing" (Dave Naylor) under JC and a QB who talked and sounded like none was his problem likely got JC fired. Durant was saying how Kevin Glenn did well in Sask this year as the line was better and new personnel leading listeners to think he's fine and he's now doing not great again due to the same issues in MTL. While he's right about Montreal, he's not doing his jobs - tossing the first passes of the game at Receivers' feet so they can't get it.

I am not surprised that Chapdelaine got himself fired as he looked very disconnected from his coaching staff on the sidelines. In fact, I think I posted something earlier to this effect.

I felt (wrongly) that JC was ready to be a HC. When he took on the role he seemed like the HC to turn it around. It didn't help that Darian Durant is playing like QB killer Jay Cutler.

But firing Noel Thorpe just shows how stupid Kavis Reed is. Edit: Reading that Rich Stubler is in Montreal and has been around for a few weeks.

Kavis Reed is not someone I can see being successful as a coach and to show how foolish he is, he's making the mistake Jim Popp made - coaching. That means you as GM are down to your FINAL option. Hire a coach and you can always fire one or two before they get to you.

OC Cavillo sounds fine but before Jacque as HC he was pretty much a big man on the Als O and it wasn't so well either. It was a gong show with Popp et al as HC.

He was calling plays for QBs that commentators (and I agree) felt were being called for AC's skill set. He doesn't seem to have the leadership skills of Maas, Dickensen types who call plays to make their QB successful.

TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 21140
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:18 am

Going to get a lot worse than better with Kavis running the show.

TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 21140
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:21 am


DanoT
Hall of Famer
Posts: 3111
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:46 am

Won't the Montreal media and the fans reading and listening to the media be pissed about the firing of a French speaking HC?

Will there be pressure to somehow hire Danny Macioca or will the French media just forget about the Als and just report on the Habs?

The mid season firing of both HC/play caller and assistant HC/play caller in mid season is, I think, a CFL first.

Kavis as GM and HC :rotf: They might not win another game.

B.C.FAN
2017 MVP
2017 MVP
Posts: 9101
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:37 am

Toppy Vann wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:01 am
I felt (wrongly) that JC was ready to be a HC. When he took on the role he seemed like the HC to turn it around. It didn't help that Darian Durant is playing like QB killer Jay Cutler.
I also thought the Als would thrive under JC and that Darian Durant would be the right quarterback for a JC offence. I've never liked Kavis Reed.

Here's Reed explaining the changes:



I was wrong about the Als succeeding under Chapdelaine but I'm still stubborn enough to stick to my pre-season prediction of a B.C. vs. Montreal Grey Cup. Stranger things have happened.
"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy

User avatar
cromartie
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4703
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 2:31 pm
Location: Clevelandish

Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:41 am

You are never going to win as an organization if you don't achieve stability. Four coaches in five years is not stability. Winning doesn't happen overnight, especially under those circumstances.

Kavis Reed as your GM is not stability. He proved that in Edmonton.

As an organization, they need to find the proper combination of GM and HC and give them the time and space to turn this roster over and build a winner. This is not the pathway to doing that. Someone needs to find the stones to clean that house from stem to stern, and that includes Calvillo, as unpopular as that may prove to be.

As for JC, maybe, finally, he'll go back to CIS/USport and do what he's good at;rebuilding a program in the manner of Maciocia.

User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7966
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:50 am

cromartie wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:41 am
You are never going to win as an organization if you don't achieve stability. Four coaches in five years is not stability. Winning doesn't happen overnight, especially under those circumstances.

Kavis Reed as your GM is not stability. He proved that in Edmonton.

As an organization, they need to find the proper combination of GM and HC and give them the time and space to turn this roster over and build a winner. This is not the pathway to doing that. Someone needs to find the stones to clean that house from stem to stern, and that includes Calvillo, as unpopular as that may prove to be.

As for JC, maybe, finally, he'll go back to CIS/USport and do what he's good at;rebuilding a program in the manner of Maciocia.
Just listening to the Reed presser reminds me of the gong show he ran in Edmton. He's one of the last who could bring stability to this mess.

Even his statement "Today at 6:15 am..." they let the fired coaches know but it's been developing for weeks! I'm now thinking that the disconnected look of JC with his coaches was his knowledge that he was gone regardless of what was happening.

If Reed is right and he got on with JC, then why wasn't he able to get thru to JC what had to happen while JC was still on as HC.

Great media question, good to hear the full length as he notes that has Reed not been aware of the last 5 years as he says in abbreviated form:

"What the heck is going on here...how do you maintain credibility?...."

Reed reply and my reaction: F...k now he's channeling Abraham Lincoln and how he head to go thru 5 or so Generals to win the war and after he went to his own "FIDUCIARY responsibility" to get things on track.

The rumours about Stubler "can be SEQUESTERED for right now" - so now he's channeling the US House speaker.

As to BC v. Montreal, BC fan... what's the Vegas line on that one? It might be worth a flyer if you have an extra $100. But then again I was thinking that might be similar to taking a flyer on Mayweather getting beaten by McGregor -something I contemplated but didn't luckily.

don corleone
Rookie
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:41 am

Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:59 am

So Durant ran to Kavis about Chapdelaine? Thinking this is his last gig.

Thorpe goes because he was never Kavis's guy to begin with. Here comes Stubler. Joe Mack circling overhead.

All in all par for the course for the franchise from the days of Scalbania and Ferragamo. Hope they get that straightened out as it is a great city for the CFL.

maxlion
Champion
Posts: 599
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:49 am

Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:33 am

None of Reed, Chaps or Thorpe were put in positions where short term success was likely. It was obvious from the last couple of years that the team would face challenges this year.

Reed faced an aging roster, sms troubles and no qb. No quick, easy fixes.
Chaps had to deal with a lacklustre roster.
Thorpe's had important personnel on d cut to help out the offense.

From Chaps body language on the sidelines, it appeared that he was done. No surprise there.
Not sure what Thorpe's issue was, but I suspect he is happy to be out of there.
Can Reed return the team to respectability? He has shown he can make the necessary changes. But whether or not these changes result in success remain to be seen. It is probably unlikely that he lasts long enough for us to find out. I haven't seen any evidence that Calvillo is a capable OC. Reed's record as a HC is mixed at best.

I think that Reed is smart and has some leadership ability. Call it a soft spot on my part. But I'm not sure that he has the level of respect from players that will enable him to pull this off.

What is most amazing to me is that Ottawa hasn't been able to pull ahead of the other teams in the east.

Blitz
2017 MVP
2017 MVP
Posts: 8375
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:52 pm

The minute Montreal hired Kavis Reed as GM, I knew that Chap was gone a the very first opportunity. Reed coveted the HC job. Now he is the HC and GM.

Chaps brought discipline to a team that was out of control. He had a number of new players to work with on offence, including Durrant, whom I believed was going to struggle in Montreal and he did.

The fact that Reed was talking about firing Chap for a few weeks shows how little time he was given to turn things around.

Firing Thorpe was even more stupid. Now who is baby Durrant going to run and cry to.

Can't wait for Reed's pre-game and half time speeches. Those speeches should be a good reason for a players only meeting in the future.

What a mess!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)

Blitz
2017 MVP
2017 MVP
Posts: 8375
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:55 pm

Loved this line on TSN
"So Chapdelaine is given a train wreck of a roster by Reed, and is fired"
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)

User avatar
WestCoastJoe
2017 MVP
2017 MVP
Posts: 15769
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:15 pm

I have sympathy for Jacques Chapdelaine. His roster lacked talent. His GM seems to have wanted to move him out for a long time. Durant did not buy in with Chapdelaine. There was the Carter situation. Time to move on, Jacques. That organization is a mess. Best to have the Alouettes in the rear view mirror.

IMO Noel Thorpe has had considerable success as a DC.

Not a fan of Kavis Reed. Although his locker room rants as Head Coach were highly entertaining and bizarre.

I agree with those that suggest AC has not shown much in the way of coaching chops. Even as a player he seemed very remote.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5160
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG and on the road for work the next 2 years; Adams Lake, Castlegar and points beyond

Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:04 pm

cromartie wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:41 am
You are never going to win as an organization if you don't achieve stability. Four coaches in five years is not stability. Winning doesn't happen overnight, especially under those circumstances.

Kavis Reed as your GM is not stability. He proved that in Edmonton.

As an organization, they need to find the proper combination of GM and HC and give them the time and space to turn this roster over and build a winner. This is not the pathway to doing that. Someone needs to find the stones to clean that house from stem to stern, and that includes Calvillo, as unpopular as that may prove to be.

As for JC, maybe, finally, he'll go back to CIS/USport and do what he's good at;rebuilding a program in the manner of Maciocia.
In some ways Reed stepping in makes sense...........just as long as he fully intends on it being temporary until the end of the season. If not him then he should've filled the spot with somebody who would not be considered for the permanent job next year like the Riders did when they replaced Chamblin with Bob Dyce. Whichever way they fill Chappy's spot for the rest of this season it should be with someone who will not be in the running for the job in 2018.

I'm a believer that replacing a coach mid-season never works out over the long haul. If the team shows any sign of life or turning it around under said coach then more often than not that person is rewarded with the permanent job. And more often than not again that interim HC turned permanent HC is fired within a year and a half of getting the permanent job. Look at Chappy. When he took over last year the Larks were sitting at an almost identical record as this season. They were 3-9 when he took over. They went 4-2 under him last year and are now back at 3-8 this year. Look at the Lions several years ago. Adam Rita was the HC. He removed himself from the HC job mid-season in 1998 and replaced himself with Greg Mohns. Mohns in turn left mid-season 2000 to be replaced by Steve Buratto who was in turn fired mid-season in 2002.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.

User avatar
CardiacKid
Legend
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:46 am
Location: Under Christmas Hill, Saanich

Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:10 pm

Noel Thorpe I think would be a hot commodity. The guy has proven himself as a highly effective defensive coordinator and coached a number of true stars such as Chip Cox, John Bowman, Bear Woods....

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests