RedBlacks 31 - Lions 24, Post-game Stats and Comments

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Lowell Ulrich is bang on with his assessment. He and some of the players are pointing at the coaching, something posters have been saying for a while.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

The good news is that if this really is Wally's final season we're likely to see a cleaning house of our coaching staff (barring a GC run). The bad news is that this may come at the cost of this season, and who knows what kind of damage that will do to an eroding fanbase.
Lions' chances of making the post season is bleak even with the crossover. As a long time season ticket holder I'm OK with that if it means cleaning house at the end of the season. Tired of seeing our defence being picked apart and seemingly have no idea how to counter it. Tired of seeing the same offence trotted out week after week by Khari Jones. Tired of seeing our game breakers being ignored.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Lulay said that at the half not much was said at all by anybody!!!!!!
If what Lulay is saying is true, then it's a heck of a condemnation on the coaching staff. As Toppy said, that's the time to sit down and assess what the opposition is doing and making the appropriate adjustments.
Ballistic Bob
Legend
Posts: 2657
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:39 pm
Location: North Vancouver

Who was Lulay throwing to on the final drive? I didn't see a Lion receiver even close enough to break up the interception. BB
Wear orange or wear nothing
Ballistic Bob
Legend
Posts: 2657
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:39 pm
Location: North Vancouver

Let's not forget Travis was up against a bend not break defense in the fourth. The score flattered the Lions
Wear orange or wear nothing
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8173
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

Ballistic Bob wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:07 pm
Who was Lulay throwing to on the final drive? I didn't see a Lion receiver even close enough to break up the interception. BB
I'm thinking that was a timing play but whoever the intended target was and Lulay were not on the same page. Lulay threw to a spot where he thought the receiver would be and the receiver thought he was to be somewhere else.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
CardiacKid
Legend
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:46 am
Location: Under Christmas Hill, Saanich

Another article by Ullrich, this time on TSN.Ca....

http://www.tsn.ca/lions-switch-to-coach ... b-1.840571

It essentially deals with the QB switch and describes Lulay's recent role as an unofficial coach. What I found intriguing was the solitary line "One coach is always going to back another". On its face, it would read as Wally backing up Travis but does it also refer to Wally backing up the under-fire Khari Jones?

Also of note...
'Buono said he was not unhappy with the involvement of Jeremiah Johnson and Chris Rainey and thought the protection from the offensive line had improved the last two games, but suggested more could be done to make receiver Chris Williams more effective. “Right now he is maybe under-utilized,” said Buono. Williams wasn’t targeted Saturday until just before halftime. Rainey had three touches on offence and was one of several players critical of the play selection of offensive coordinator Khari Jones"
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12579
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

The Lions' problems on offence and defence are easy to see. Opposing coaches even talk openly about how they plan to stop Jonathon Jennings and the Lions. Redblacks DBs coach Ike Charlton laid it out for everyone to read in the Ottawa Sun the day before the game:
“Right now, he’s not seeing the field well. We see that, we know that.
“Hopefully, he comes in and tries to do extra as opposed to doing what he’s supposed to do. That’s his M.O. We’re going to bank on him making a throw that he’s not supposed to make, we’re going to bank on him throwing because he feels like he has the strongest arm ever — which he does. We’re going to call plays and play defence based on how he’s been playing.”
Charlton also suggested the Lions are misusing former Redblack Chris Williams , making it easy for teams to shut him down:
“The routes Chris Williams runs are very minimal. We know he wants to take the top off the defence. That’s why there was a rush to get him back on the field. They’ve got a great receiver in Manny Arceneaux, they’ve got another good receiver in 16 (Burnham), Nick Moore’s been up and down but he’s also had times where he’s taken over a game. Chris Williams is the element that wants to take the top off the defence.
“We know that, everybody in the CFL knows that. Until they start doing other routes and other things different with him, we’ll continue to cover him like everybody else covers him. We have DBs that have played against him — they know him, they know how he releases, they know what he does, I don’t have to say too much on that.”
Redblacks have fighting chance to turn B.C. aside

As CardiacKid noted, Wally and the coaches are vowing to do some much-needed self-scouting during the bye week and to find ways to better use Williams.
Buono said he and his staff will take the bye week to self-scout but wasn’t threatening to make major moves. Buono said he was not unhappy with the involvement of Jeremiah Johnson and Chris Rainey and thought the protection from the offensive line had improved the last two games, but suggested more could be done to make receiver Chris Williams more effective. “Right now he is maybe under-utilized,” said Buono. Williams wasn’t targeted Saturday until just before halftime. Rainey had three touches on offence and was one of several players critical of the play selection of offensive coordinator Khari Jones.
Lions switch to ‘coach’ Lulay at QB

As Lulay told LU:
“This is the time when the entire team and staff (should) do a self-scout on yourself. Look at your own play and what do you want to improve the next eight weeks. This is kind of a moment where the team steps back.”
After third straight loss, the Lions are a team in crisis - 3DownNation

Making Lulay the starting quarterback automatically makes the Lions a more dangerous offence. He sees the field much better than Jennings and finds the open receivers. He is running the same playbook as Jennings but he is much more efficient because he has more experience and has a strong arm that for the first time in recent years can make all the throws that Jennings can make.

The Lions need to do some serious self-scouting in all three phases of the game. Their defensive secondary is too vulnerable to deep passes and to any passes to the wide side of the field, their pass rush is too easy to shut down and their kick returns are easy to read and shut down.

They can still win 7 of the next 8 games to match last year's 12-6 record. They may need 11 or 12 wins just to make the playoffs. There's not a lot of room for error, and that means they can't afford to be predictable. They don't have enough talent to simply impose their will on opposing teams if those opponents see what's coming before the opening kickoff and before the ball is snapped on each play.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

The last time the Lions did a self-scout Buono pronounced that it was a lack of execution and not playcalling or schemes. Raise your hands if you heard that one before.
mamabear
prospect
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:35 am

Rammer wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:47 pm
Williams isn't worth the money invested. Better to use a National in his place to shore up the OL.
Is he supposed to throw the ball to himself?
User avatar
SammyGreene
Team Captain
Posts: 8079
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 am

Some thoughts from Ed Willes on the Lions situation. Also indentifies — two apparent finalists to purchase the Lions — Waterboys group and the Aquillinis.
But yes, the current slide is only creating more questions going forward instead of answers.
Following their loss in Ottawa on Saturday, the Lions find themselves in a dogfight for fourth place in the West and what figures to be the crossover berth in the playoffs. They're 5-5 and in the throes of a three-game losing streak. Saskatchewan is 4-4 and coming off two straight wins. The Leos had more ambitious designs on this season, but making the CFL playoffs - which isn't exactly the most arduous task - has now become their sole focus.

Still, there's so much else in play for the Leos in 2017 and when you take out the wide-angle lens, you begin to understand this is a pivotal moment in the history of the franchise.

The franchise, in case you've forgotten, is for sale and the sense is the new owners will be announced at the end of this season. Who those new owners will be is the next question, but in talking with sources close to the talks, it appears to be down to two buyers: The Aquilinis and a consortium we'll call The Waterboys because of their ties to the Lions'support group.

Both parties would seem to satisfy the criteria set down by Lions owner David Braley. They're local. They have a background in sports. True, The Waterboys have been closer to the Lions over the years, but the Aquilinis, through the Canucks, have resources at their disposal that could strengthen the Lions on and off the field.

But whoever ends up with the team, change is needed. Under the absentee ownership of Braley, the Lions have a tired, shopworn feel to them that has affected their brand. They need new leadership. They need a new vision for the franchise. They need fresh energy.

This is also presumed to be coach/GM Wally Buono's last year with the team and his departure creates its own set of issues. Add it all up and right now there is too much uncertainty with this team and it's impacting virtually every facet of its operation.

New owners won't fix all those problems, but at least they'd be a start.

As for the story on the field, it was interesting to watch and listen to Travis Lulay in the Lions'locker-room after the loss to the Ottawa Redblacks. Lulay has deferred to Jonathon Jennings while the younger man held down the starting quarterback job, but that all changed Saturday when Lulay almost brought the Lions back from a 31-3 deficit in the fourth quarter.

Barring the unforeseen, he'll be the Lions'QB down the stretch. With everything else that's going on with this club, Lulay's experience and character will be indispensable for a team that needs leadership.

"Obviously there's a great sense of urgency," he said in the Lions'room after the loss to Ottawa. "It's going to be a battle.

"There are eight regular-season games left, but there's still hope. If there's no hope and there's no care in the locker-room, then I'm scared for how the next eight games go. I believe we'll regroup in bye (week) and come back a better team."

? The Lions'bye week also coincides with the NFL's roster cutdown. This year, the NFL's final cuts will be made Sept. 4 when teams pare their 90-man pre-season roster down to 53. That means there will be in excess of 1,000 players out of work by next week.

The Lions will be bringing in some bodies and the offensive line figures to be one of their target areas. There will be imports in the mix, but remember the name Brett Boyko, the offensive guard from Saskatoon who the Lions took in the 2015 draft. Boyko has been in the NFL for two years, but may be running out of options.
User avatar
CardiacKid
Legend
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:46 am
Location: Under Christmas Hill, Saanich

SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am
Some thoughts from Ed Willes on the Lions situation. Also indentifies — two apparent finalists to purchase the Lions — Waterboys group and the Aquillinis.
But yes, the current slide is only creating more questions going forward instead of answers.
Following their loss in Ottawa on Saturday, the Lions find themselves in a dogfight for fourth place in the West and what figures to be the crossover berth in the playoffs. They're 5-5 and in the throes of a three-game losing streak. Saskatchewan is 4-4 and coming off two straight wins. The Leos had more ambitious designs on this season, but making the CFL playoffs - which isn't exactly the most arduous task - has now become their sole focus.

Still, there's so much else in play for the Leos in 2017 and when you take out the wide-angle lens, you begin to understand this is a pivotal moment in the history of the franchise.

The franchise, in case you've forgotten, is for sale and the sense is the new owners will be announced at the end of this season. Who those new owners will be is the next question, but in talking with sources close to the talks, it appears to be down to two buyers: The Aquilinis and a consortium we'll call The Waterboys because of their ties to the Lions'support group.

Both parties would seem to satisfy the criteria set down by Lions owner David Braley. They're local. They have a background in sports. True, The Waterboys have been closer to the Lions over the years, but the Aquilinis, through the Canucks, have resources at their disposal that could strengthen the Lions on and off the field.

But whoever ends up with the team, change is needed. Under the absentee ownership of Braley, the Lions have a tired, shopworn feel to them that has affected their brand. They need new leadership. They need a new vision for the franchise. They need fresh energy.

This is also presumed to be coach/GM Wally Buono's last year with the team and his departure creates its own set of issues. Add it all up and right now there is too much uncertainty with this team and it's impacting virtually every facet of its operation.

New owners won't fix all those problems, but at least they'd be a start.

As for the story on the field, it was interesting to watch and listen to Travis Lulay in the Lions'locker-room after the loss to the Ottawa Redblacks. Lulay has deferred to Jonathon Jennings while the younger man held down the starting quarterback job, but that all changed Saturday when Lulay almost brought the Lions back from a 31-3 deficit in the fourth quarter.

Barring the unforeseen, he'll be the Lions'QB down the stretch. With everything else that's going on with this club, Lulay's experience and character will be indispensable for a team that needs leadership.

"Obviously there's a great sense of urgency," he said in the Lions'room after the loss to Ottawa. "It's going to be a battle.

"There are eight regular-season games left, but there's still hope. If there's no hope and there's no care in the locker-room, then I'm scared for how the next eight games go. I believe we'll regroup in bye (week) and come back a better team."

? The Lions'bye week also coincides with the NFL's roster cutdown. This year, the NFL's final cuts will be made Sept. 4 when teams pare their 90-man pre-season roster down to 53. That means there will be in excess of 1,000 players out of work by next week.

The Lions will be bringing in some bodies and the offensive line figures to be one of their target areas. There will be imports in the mix, but remember the name Brett Boyko, the offensive guard from Saskatoon who the Lions took in the 2015 draft. Boyko has been in the NFL for two years, but may be running out of options.
Despite the almost fatalistic statements Wally says publicly about Boyko leaving the NFL behind and coming north, I was pointedly told the Lions are working it to make sure Boyko joins the Lions the second he may be cut by the Chargers. And based on the feedback they have received upon their proactive inquiries, he is on the bubble and not looking like he will make it past the cuts.

What is being said publicly by Wally is not reflective of the effort the team is putting forth to land Boyko. And it shouldn't be a surprise based on the fact the Lions attempted to poach both Dillon Guy and Quadr Spooner earlier this August from the Roughriders and Blue Bombers' practice rosters.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8173
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am
Some thoughts from Ed Willes on the Lions situation. Also indentifies — two apparent finalists to purchase the Lions — Waterboys group and the Aquillinis.
But yes, the current slide is only creating more questions going forward instead of answers.
If your last statement was directly related to the impending sale Sammy I would have to disagree. If the current onfield state of affairs in any way impacts negotiations or interest level of potential buyers then hopefully such buyers pull out entirely. IMO interested parties have to be in the mix because they believe in the Lions and the market and want to be owners for the long haul, through thick and thin. If they were getting cold feet over the last 3 games they are the wrong people to own this 65 year old institution. It's pretty much a given Wally wouldn't be involved under any new ownership unless said group wanted him to be involved. Even if he was under contract next year or wanted to stick around it would be maybe two years tops and he'd be departing. Again if that were a factor in the sale the new group is not thinking big picture, long-term thus the wrong people to own the Lions.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

Hambone wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:56 am
SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am
Some thoughts from Ed Willes on the Lions situation. Also indentifies — two apparent finalists to purchase the Lions — Waterboys group and the Aquillinis.
But yes, the current slide is only creating more questions going forward instead of answers.
If your last statement was directly related to the impending sale Sammy I would have to disagree. If the current onfield state of affairs in any way impacts negotiations or interest level of potential buyers then hopefully such buyers pull out entirely. IMO interested parties have to be in the mix because they believe in the Lions and the market and want to be owners for the long haul, through thick and thin. If they were getting cold feet over the last 3 games they are the wrong people to own this 65 year old institution. It's pretty much a given Wally wouldn't be involved under any new ownership unless said group wanted him to be involved. Even if he was under contract next year or wanted to stick around it would be maybe two years tops and he'd be departing. Again if that were a factor in the sale the new group is not thinking big picture, long-term thus the wrong people to own the Lions.
David Braley for all the good he's brought to BC AND the CFL (money, unwavering and undying support and love for the league) has wanted two things in the sale:
> committed ownership - not just a sale
> $$$$$ - If reported numbers are true, then it's too much for any group to take over and actually invest in in any meaningful way.

So maybe the current state of the franchise is a good thing for buyers - lowers the price to where a buyer could invest in the team etc.

And , yes, fans don't want just any buyer or it will lead to instability and that means fewer fans..
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
User avatar
SammyGreene
Team Captain
Posts: 8079
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:52 am

Hambone wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:56 am
SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am
Some thoughts from Ed Willes on the Lions situation. Also indentifies — two apparent finalists to purchase the Lions — Waterboys group and the Aquillinis.
But yes, the current slide is only creating more questions going forward instead of answers.
If your last statement was directly related to the impending sale Sammy I would have to disagree. If the current onfield state of affairs in any way impacts negotiations or interest level of potential buyers then hopefully such buyers pull out entirely. IMO interested parties have to be in the mix because they believe in the Lions and the market and want to be owners for the long haul, through thick and thin. If they were getting cold feet over the last 3 games they are the wrong people to own this 65 year old institution. It's pretty much a given Wally wouldn't be involved under any new ownership unless said group wanted him to be involved. Even if he was under contract next year or wanted to stick around it would be maybe two years tops and he'd be departing. Again if that were a factor in the sale the new group is not thinking big picture, long-term thus the wrong people to own the Lions.
Actually no. Sorry it looked that way. I should have clarified I meant another potential question is the QB situation for 2018 on top of who will be the new owner, GM/coach given what has unfolded the last 3 weeks.

Totally agree, on field performance this season should have no bearing on the potential new owners.
Post Reply