Riders 41 - Lions 8, Post-Game Stats and Comments

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WestCoastJoe
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https://www.bclions.com/2017/08/15/buon ... r-calgary/

Wally talks about the players only meeting.

He talks about Hunter's injury.

Getting ready for Calgary. He says we need to pick up our game.

https://www.bclions.com/2017/08/15/lumb ... -grey-cup/

Rolly talks about the players only meeting. He talks about his role as a team leader.
.............

The overall team flatness everyone saw against the Riders was shocking. Let us hope it was a one-off, and not more than that. Over the years, due to Wally's leadership, his teams have usually demonstrated a very high level of motivation, focus and commitment. As a Lions fan, when Wally was with the Stampeders, I always thought they were extremely tough to play against, a guaranteed physical battle. They were determined and committed. Our Lions are usually like that. That was missing for us versus the Riders. On the players or on the coaching staff? We see differing views on this site.

Motivation for an organization or team is a complex issue. Wally has talked about getting the team ready for playoff games, trying different approaches. Finding the right way is not easy. Pushing the right buttons is part of it. Inspiring individuals or groups is part of it. Not easy. But one thing many agree on is that teams and organizations reflect the leader. If the leader believes, then the team believes. And vice versa.

Some acknowledge the effect of words. I think we have all seen leaders who can inspire. I think some or all of us have experienced it, have felt its effect. As noted it is a complex issue. On a historical level, I have found Churchill to be inspirational, through his speeches that rallied a nation in great peril, seemingly overwhelmed. John F. Kennedy also. And in football, to hear on tape a Vince Lombardi pre-game speech, to feel the passion and the possibilities, or to see him diagram the Green Bay sweep on a chalkboard, is for me inspirational. Even to read one of the books by or about him.

From Shakespeare there is the speech by Henry V to the troops before battle. It works for some.

After a good week of preparation and practice, just before a game, in my opinion, a coach is best to keep it to perhaps three keys. No more. We heard John Hufnagel give a pretty solid pre-game speech before a Grey Cup. One could sense the response of the players. And it is not just about a pre-game speech. And it is not just about pounding the walls of the dressing room on the way out, which might not translate to the field. It is part of a complete game preparation. Indeed, at some times, pre-game words are just about getting the team to focus, even to just relax a bit, to ease the butterflies. I think Don Matthews was very good at it also, in his quiet way. I heard him speak at a banquet once in the mid 1980s, and it inspired me.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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WestCoastJoe
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Something else occurs to me. I was too young to have an opinion on Eisenhower as President. I got the impression from adults that he was not special in that role, not great, not good, not bad. I have lately read things that might change that impression.

But, as an adult, I saw this picture of him speaking to troops, just before sending them into battle. My God, how tough would that be, knowing that many of them would die? Did he look forward to it? I kind of doubt it. But he knew it was much better if he did speak to them.

What could he say? He would have to speak from the heart. They must feel his passion, his belief in what they must do, how it would work, if they have the commitment. They have a responsibility to their country, to their families, to the free world, to themselves, and most importantly, to the men right beside them. Their mission is good. They are doing the right thing.

He met them. He had their rapt attention. Pretty easy, right? I don't think so. They looked to him for leadership, and they got it. I will find time at some point to read more about him, but he was the right man, at the right time, for that job, leading the Allies to victory.

(What does war have to do with football? I've always seen similarities between them.)

Just IMO ...
120320_eisenhower_troops_ap_328.gif
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Gridiron Ernie
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David wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:03 am
Gridiron Ernie wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:08 pm
...and here's hoping-and-praying that new regime you look forward to DanoT is not headed by either Mr. M. Washington or Mr. K. Jones. I know it's useless to worry about things beyond your control.... but, I worry. Silly me.
Here's the thing though Ernie. It's the $64,000 question. Are Jones and Washington coaching the way they want to coach, or are they adhering to a certain....umm....shall we say "conservative" philosophy that is beyond their control and above their pay grade?

One area we really need to shore up is special teams. IMO it's been abysmal lately. At least in the beginning of the year we seemed to be covering kicks okay. Now we're giving up the big returns and giving away easy field position. Time for Marcello Simmons to get this under control.....and find some freaking running lanes for the one of the most dynamic returners in football while you're at it!


DH :cool:
For sure, David. It's the question you gotta ask. And who knows. I certainly don't. But the niggling thought I have associated with that consideration is, what does that say about either of the two coordinators if indeed it's a case of continuing quiet dutiful adherence? While there's a lot to be said for these aspects of working harmony and loyalty, shouldn't certain characteristics such as boldness and alternate creativity show a little. I realize they, on a practical level, want to keep their jobs, and if they chafe too much, or are too contentious, then it's not a good working relationship/environment.

Ideally I'd want a balance, where there's some evidence coming from our coordinators that, while they are respectful of their position and the head guy, they are also strong-willed and gung ho to be their own men -- enough so that they kick up a little dust in the head guy's nose time to time. But, easy for me to say! Finessing one's way through the mine-fields of being on any coaching-staff together can't be easy. But they're both so bloody well-behaved, lol! But I guess I should be careful what I wish for. Don't want an outright revolt of mavericks (or do we?) heh heh.

Hmm... Your other point: I've a truckload of bad language seething in my brain these days regards Marcello Simmons. Rightly or wrongly I've concluded he's in over his head. It's a bloody crime to see this wastefulness. This squandered talent game after game. It's shocking. And it's not only wasting Rainey's talent, it's wasting Ty Long's efforts also. Yes, David, abysmal is the polite word for it. But again, easy for me to say. But the coaching staff gets paid to figure these things out.
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DanoT
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The teams are required to release game day depth charts but I would like to see the Special Teams depth chart as well.
TheLionKing
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David wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:03 am

Here's the thing though Ernie. It's the $64,000 question. Are Jones and Washington coaching the way they want to coach, or are they adhering to a certain....umm....shall we say "conservative" philosophy that is beyond their control and above their pay grade?

I think the answer to that $64,000 question is the latter. Look at Chapdelaine and Benevides. Chap's offence is much more dynamic in Montreal than the same old, same old he ran in BC. Benevides' defence is more aggressive than the one when he was in BC.
maxlion
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When it comes to special teams, there is a always a lot of focus on the returner and the kicker, and not as much on the rest of the players on whose performance these two guys' success depends. I guess because most fans, like me, are unable to adequately assess the performance of all of these "extras", especially without knowing specifically what they are supposed to be doing and where they are supposed to be in any given play.

We also don't know how much practice time is given to practice various aspects of special teams play. When things don't work as hoped, the blame naturally falls to the ST coach.

Winnipeg always seems to have some ST tricks up their sleave, but I also wonder how much practice time is used up for these plays, and how this might affect the team's overall play. They've exposed us a few times on ST, but we still usually ended up winning the games.

Regardless, returns can be exciting, and when you have a talent like Rainey, you need to find a way to showcase that talent and excite the fans.

Ty Long has been excellent on field goals and kickoffs. But he lacks control in punting, and control is as important as distance. It is one of the factors in stopping the other team's return game.
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Lalji on 1040 right now (pretty mixed up day with the Mariners game spanning 2 shows) said that JJ10 admitted to misjudging the effects of the wind on his throws early in the game (it being his first time dealing with wind currents swirling through the roof at New Mosaic.

Lalji (who will be filling in for Moj on pbp this Friday) also said the he doesn't think lingering shoulder injury had any impact, since JJ10's throws were accurate in practice (back in BC earlier in the week).
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B.C.FAN
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Gridiron Ernie wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:22 pm
've a truckload of bad language seething in my brain these days regards Marcello Simmons. Rightly or wrongly I've concluded he's in over his head. It's a bloody crime to see this wastefulness. This squandered talent game after game. It's shocking. And it's not only wasting Rainey's talent, it's wasting Ty Long's efforts also. Yes, David, abysmal is the polite word for it. But again, easy for me to say. But the coaching staff gets paid to figure these things out.
Watching training camp or game situations, it always seems like Wally is the special teams coach. On kicking plays, Simmons will usually work with the kicking team and Wally will work with the return team, lining them up, telling them who to block and critiquing their play afterwards. Just watching the TV broadcast of the game in Regina last week, I saw Wally step out on the field and tell members of the return team to move up. Simmons was standing right beside him on the sideline.

Playing special teams takes a lot of heart. Jordan Herdman, Micah Awe and Chandler Fenner have been solid contributors but the Lions seem to miss the overall leadership of Jason Arakgi.
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Gridiron Ernie
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:56 pm
Gridiron Ernie wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:22 pm
've a truckload of bad language seething in my brain these days regards Marcello Simmons. Rightly or wrongly I've concluded he's in over his head. It's a bloody crime to see this wastefulness. This squandered talent game after game. It's shocking. And it's not only wasting Rainey's talent, it's wasting Ty Long's efforts also. Yes, David, abysmal is the polite word for it. But again, easy for me to say. But the coaching staff gets paid to figure these things out.
Watching training camp or game situations, it always seems like Wally is the special teams coach. On kicking plays, Simmons will usually work with the kicking team and Wally will work with the return team, lining them up, telling them who to block and critiquing their play afterwards. Just watching the TV broadcast of the game in Regina last week, I saw Wally step out on the field and tell members of the return team to move up. Simmons was standing right beside him on the sideline.

Playing special teams takes a lot of heart. Jordan Herdman, Micah Awe and Chandler Fenner have been solid contributors but the Lions seem to miss the overall leadership of Jason Arakgi.
Thanks for the reminder -- that rings a bell actually, about Wally's part. Perhaps you've explained this before. Whatever the case, appreciate your insight/explanation B.C.FAN.

I've a naive question about the make-up/personnel of the special teams: Other than the obvious components for each, i.e. Rainey & Iannuzzi on returns and Long & Benson on kicks, is the 'general herd' (my term) made up of the same fellows thundering downfield either way? I've always assumed so. Just checking. And, btw, I rather like DanoT's notion for a ST depth chart. But I'm not aware that any CFL team provides such. (?) And, yeah, good point about missing Arakgi.
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B.C.FAN
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Gridiron Ernie wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:59 pm
I've a naive question about the make-up/personnel of the special teams: Other than the obvious components for each, i.e. Rainey & Iannuzzi on returns and Long & Benson on kicks, is the 'general herd' (my term) made up of the same fellows thundering downfield either way? I've always assumed so. Just checking. And, btw, I rather like DanoT's notion for a ST depth chart. But I'm not aware that any CFL team provides such. (?) And, yeah, good point about missing Arakgi.
Special teamers are mainly backups, which means national non-starters and designated imports. Most linebackers and rotational D-linemen also play special teams, along with any fullbacks (Rolly Lumbala is ST captain) and a few starting DBs. There are some differences between cover teams and return teams. In general, kickoff return teams have some D-linemen as blockers. Other than FG teams, other ST units are almost exclusively made up of smaller, faster guys.

At training camp, I watched the makeup of special teams units closely, because they are invariably made up of players the coaches believe will make the 46-man roster. They don't spend a lot of time teaching the nuances of special teams to rookies who will only be around for a few weeks. Micah Awe, Jordan Herdman, Chandler Fenner, Frederic Chagnon, Maxx Forde and Danny Vandervoort earned their roster spots, at least initially, because of their special teams play. I thought this unit would be better than last year's because several veteran backups lost their jobs to the above-named players. So far the overall results aren't there, although several of the newer ST players are having good seasons individually.
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