Training camp Day 5
Thursday, June 1, 2017 - afternoon session
Players were in helmets only Thursday afternoon but there were lots of simultaneous field play and skelly sessions to keep fans entertained, at least for the second hour of practice.
Chris Williams had lots of company as at least 10 other players spent large parts of practice either stretching or riding the bike on the sidelines. That group included DBs T.J. Lee, Buddy Jackson, Steven Clarke, Tevin McDonald and Mondo Williams, DLs Frank Alexander, Bryant Turner Jr., Luther Maddy and Dylan Ainsworth and receiver Nick Moore. Clarke, McDonald and Turner Jr. also took part in several live drills.
Cleveland Wallace took first-team reps for Lee at boundary halfback, while Anthony Gaitor filled in for Jackson on the wide side.
Receiver Shaq Johnson was on the field for some drills after spending a week on the sidelines with an injury sustained on the first day of minicamp. He still doesn't have a spot on the official depth chart.
Speaking of the depth chart, there is one discrepancy between the team's published depth chart and the on-field rotations. Corey Jones has taken all first-team reps at boundary wideout but he's listed behind Maurice Morgan on the published depth chart. I like Jones but he didn't have a great afternoon catching the ball. Tyler Davis, who is an intriguing prospect as a wide receiver/returner and sometimes running back, caught the ball well in the afternoon, as did Danny Vandervoort, Deon Long and Mitchell Hillis. Long, who dropped a couple of passes in the first padded practice on Tuesday, caught two deep corner routes. Hillis, an eighth-round draft choice out of Saskatchewan, is a testament to the growing pool of quality prospects in Canada. The CFL draft didn't have an eighth round a few years ago.
Gaitor, Chandler Fenner and Nate Hamlin, fourth-round draft choice out of Carleton, had knockdowns in skelly. Mic'hael Brooks was a force up front and knocked down a Jonathon Jennings pass in the backfield.
The Lions' four national DBs are impressive. Keynan Parker, Matt Bucknor and Hamlin have all looked good on the corner, while Anthony Thompson has been solid as a backup safety.
Jeremiah Johnson, Chris Rainey and Shaq Murray-Lawrence all ran the ball well, especially off tackle. Rainey hits the hole so fast in the inside run game that he is often 10 yards downfield before the defence can react.
Swayze Waters and Ty Long rotated as punters. Long outpunted Waters by a wide margin. Both players appeared to be purrfect on 32-yard converts. The placekicking adventures of the past few years appear to be over, and Wally may feel comfortable kicking more converts this year. The Lions led the league in two-point attempts last year.
Kamloops Training Camp 2017
Moderator: Team Captains
A bright spot going into 2017 is our defensive backfield. We have a number of talented International and National defensive backs at this training camp and some very good choices to begin the season.
I'm thrilled that Anthony Gaitor has returned to the Lion's fold. I considered him our best defensive back last year. But where will he play?
Right now we have Ronnie Yell and Kenyan Parker scheduled to play at the two corner spots with Bucknor backing up Parker. T.J. Lee and Buddy Jackson were anticipated to be opening day starters at boundary and field halfback, with Clarke being given the shot as our opening day free safety.
But that is not the starting rotation that I would go with to begin 2017.
Last season, I not only thought that Gaitor was our best corner but also that Stephen Clarke was our best halfback and played very well at boundary half until he got injured. Tevin MacDonald is a natural safety.
If I was lining up the depth chart, I would have Yell and Parker at corner, Clarke and Gaitor at halfback, and MacDonald at safety. Anthony Thompson would back up MacDonald at halfback, and my dime back would either be Lee, Jackson, Fenner, or a training camp standout. Nate Hamlin will need to be protected on the 46 man roster.
At linebacker, we're set in the middle with Sol E. and Purifoy at nickel back. The only question mark is who will take Bighill's spot. Ontco is penciled in right now but Davis is also a potential starter. Tony Burnett has to try to crack this lineup. Awe will at least be kept on the practice roster as a backup to Sol E.
National linebackers include the returning Adrian Clarke, Jason Aragki, and Nehemie Kangolongo, draft choice Frederic Chagnon, who will need to be protected, as well as Herdman, who is in tough. We won't be able to keep all of these National linebackers.
The big question is the defensive line. Roh will be the boundary defensive end this season, likely backed up by Menard. Brooks will start at tackle. That leaves two starting positions, one at tackle and one at rush end.
Its a dogfight for the other tackle position. If we go with a second International, there are numerous candidates - Frank Alexander, whom I thought would be a good rush end or boundary end candidate, certainly brings talent and credentials. Then their are returning Bryant Turner Jr. and Luther Maddy. Throw in National tackles Maxx Forde and Junior Luke and we have a load of talent competing for the position.
At rush end both Josh Shirley and Boatwright bring speed and quickness. Marguis Jackson also brings a high skill set. Evans is slated as the starter right now but I don't believe he has the abilities of the players mentioned. Can't see Hudson making this 2017 roster. Nationals competing for the defensive end position also include National Dylan Ainsworth, who will likely be a special team specialist and Godin.
Its shaping up to be a very competitive training camp on defense. Much more talent for 2017, that at than at the 2016 training camp.
There will be some very tough cuts on defense at the end of this training camp.
I'm thrilled that Anthony Gaitor has returned to the Lion's fold. I considered him our best defensive back last year. But where will he play?
Right now we have Ronnie Yell and Kenyan Parker scheduled to play at the two corner spots with Bucknor backing up Parker. T.J. Lee and Buddy Jackson were anticipated to be opening day starters at boundary and field halfback, with Clarke being given the shot as our opening day free safety.
But that is not the starting rotation that I would go with to begin 2017.
Last season, I not only thought that Gaitor was our best corner but also that Stephen Clarke was our best halfback and played very well at boundary half until he got injured. Tevin MacDonald is a natural safety.
If I was lining up the depth chart, I would have Yell and Parker at corner, Clarke and Gaitor at halfback, and MacDonald at safety. Anthony Thompson would back up MacDonald at halfback, and my dime back would either be Lee, Jackson, Fenner, or a training camp standout. Nate Hamlin will need to be protected on the 46 man roster.
At linebacker, we're set in the middle with Sol E. and Purifoy at nickel back. The only question mark is who will take Bighill's spot. Ontco is penciled in right now but Davis is also a potential starter. Tony Burnett has to try to crack this lineup. Awe will at least be kept on the practice roster as a backup to Sol E.
National linebackers include the returning Adrian Clarke, Jason Aragki, and Nehemie Kangolongo, draft choice Frederic Chagnon, who will need to be protected, as well as Herdman, who is in tough. We won't be able to keep all of these National linebackers.
The big question is the defensive line. Roh will be the boundary defensive end this season, likely backed up by Menard. Brooks will start at tackle. That leaves two starting positions, one at tackle and one at rush end.
Its a dogfight for the other tackle position. If we go with a second International, there are numerous candidates - Frank Alexander, whom I thought would be a good rush end or boundary end candidate, certainly brings talent and credentials. Then their are returning Bryant Turner Jr. and Luther Maddy. Throw in National tackles Maxx Forde and Junior Luke and we have a load of talent competing for the position.
At rush end both Josh Shirley and Boatwright bring speed and quickness. Marguis Jackson also brings a high skill set. Evans is slated as the starter right now but I don't believe he has the abilities of the players mentioned. Can't see Hudson making this 2017 roster. Nationals competing for the defensive end position also include National Dylan Ainsworth, who will likely be a special team specialist and Godin.
Its shaping up to be a very competitive training camp on defense. Much more talent for 2017, that at than at the 2016 training camp.
There will be some very tough cuts on defense at the end of this training camp.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
This is the deepest pool of talent I've ever seen at Lions camp, especially in the secondary. Last year's wave of injuries gave other players a chance to step up. Now Ronnie Yell, T.J. Lee and Steven Clarke are back from injuries and appear to be as good as ever, Anthony Gaitor is back from his NFL tryout, free-agent Buddy Jackson brings size and experience, Keynan Parker is getting a well-deserved chance to start, Loucheiz Purifoy is back after a solid first season, and Chandler Fenner, Tevin McDonald and Matt Bucknor are quality players who could start but don't currently have a spot in the backfield. It's an embarrassment of riches. I thought Yell was the Lions' best DB before he was hurt last year. Gaitor was the best at the end of the season, filling in for Yell at the hot corner.Blitz wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:21 amA bright spot going into 2017 is our defensive backfield. We have a number of talented International and National defensive backs at this training camp and some very good choices to begin the season.
I'm thrilled that Anthony Gaitor has returned to the Lion's fold. I considered him our best defensive back last year. But where will he play?
Right now we have Ronnie Yell and Kenyan Parker scheduled to play at the two corner spots with Bucknor backing up Parker. T.J. Lee and Buddy Jackson were anticipated to be opening day starters at boundary and field halfback, with Clarke being given the shot as our opening day free safety.
But that is not the starting rotation that I would go with to begin 2017.
Last season, I not only thought that Gaitor was our best corner but also that Stephen Clarke was our best halfback and played very well at boundary half until he got injured. Tevin MacDonald is a natural safety.
If I was lining up the depth chart, I would have Yell and Parker at corner, Clarke and Gaitor at halfback, and MacDonald at safety. Anthony Thompson would back up MacDonald at halfback, and my dime back would either be Lee, Jackson, Fenner, or a training camp standout. Nate Hamlin will need to be protected on the 46 man roster.
At linebacker, we're set in the middle with Sol E. and Purifoy at nickel back. The only question mark is who will take Bighill's spot. Ontco is penciled in right now but Davis is also a potential starter. Tony Burnett has to try to crack this lineup. Awe will at least be kept on the practice roster as a backup to Sol E.
National linebackers include the returning Adrian Clarke, Jason Aragki, and Nehemie Kangolongo, draft choice Frederic Chagnon, who will need to be protected, as well as Herdman, who is in tough. We won't be able to keep all of these National linebackers.
The big question is the defensive line. Roh will be the boundary defensive end this season, likely backed up by Menard. Brooks will start at tackle. That leaves two starting positions, one at tackle and one at rush end.
Its a dogfight for the other tackle position. If we go with a second International, there are numerous candidates - Frank Alexander, whom I thought would be a good rush end or boundary end candidate, certainly brings talent and credentials. Then their are returning Bryant Turner Jr. and Luther Maddy. Throw in National tackles Maxx Forde and Junior Luke and we have a load of talent competing for the position.
At rush end both Josh Shirley and Boatwright bring speed and quickness. Marguis Jackson also brings a high skill set. Evans is slated as the starter right now but I don't believe he has the abilities of the players mentioned. Can't see Hudson making this 2017 roster. Nationals competing for the defensive end position also include National Dylan Ainsworth, who will likely be a special team specialist and Godin.
Its shaping up to be a very competitive training camp on defense. Much more talent for 2017, that at than at the 2016 training camp.
There will be some very tough cuts on defense at the end of this training camp.
To a lesser extent, the Lions have solid depth on the offensive and defensive lines, at linebacker, receiver and running back. If they can keep people around after cutdown day, they should be able to fill in adequately whenever and wherever injuries hit. I would love to see the Lions start a national on the defensive line. Junior Luke, Maxx Forde, David Menard and Dylan Ainsworth could form a strong national rotation but that would likely leave Bryant Turner Jr. and Frank Alexander out of the rotation. Both have been hampered by injuries this week and have sat out practices. Turner is expected to be in the opening day rotation, and has practised with the special teams unit.
Speaking of injuries, Friday morning practice was cancelled. One of the factors may have been the rash of nagging injuries that has hit in recent days. About 12 players sat out part or all of Thursday afternoon practice. Coaches always build some leeway into the training camp schedule to allow for bad weather or just to give players' bodies a bit of a break. The weather has been great in Kamloops this week, so it's likely they're ahead of schedule and could afford a break from on-field activities. Players and coaches are in meetings instead. They'll be on the field at 3:30 p.m. Friday for a padded practice. I plan to focus on the defensive line. I've been watching receivers and DBs in recent practices and have only noticed defensive linemen and linebackers when they disrupt the passing game. Mic'hael Brooks has been a constant presence in the backfield, and Micah Awe and Jordan Herdman have applied pressure as backup linebackers. But with a split roster taking part in simultaneous scrimmages at both ends of the field, I haven't paid enough attention to the individual battles. And I haven't noticed much pressure from the defensive ends.
In looking at our Leos 2017 training camp roster, most positions are set on offence.
Our starting lineup on the offensive line will very likely be Husband at center, Fabian and Vaillencourt at guard, and Steward at left tackle. Right tackle will likely be our only key starting offensive line decision with returner Antonio Johnson battling it out with Kelvin Palmer, with Epps and Isles on the outside lookin in.
Facault will back up Steward to begin the year and Dhillon will back up at center/guard. Zver will need to be protected.
We're set at quarterback with Jennings, Lulay, and Price unless Alex Ross can make enough of an impression to unseat Price.
At tailback, Johnson is back as the starter with Rainey as the rotational back. Josh Harris will lkely be kept for depth but we need to find a way to keep Tyler Davis as a reciever/tailback/returner. Shaq Murray Lawrence is a backup National tailback/returner who has under impressed so far in a Leos uniform but his National status may mean he stays around.
The offensive battles of this 2017 training camp are at right tackle and receiver. We know that Manny and Burnham are starters and Williams will be. Right now, Buono is keeping his options open and either National Marco Iannuzzi or import Nick Moore are slated at the outside slot position. Adekolu is lining up as the outside fifth receiver but will likely give way to Iannuzzi, should Buono go with an International at the wide slot position.
Nick Moore is a quality a receiver but he also has an injury history and we have some very good talent at International receiver for 2017.
As for our National receivers there are a bunch of them who have had little or no opportunity behind favored Marco Iannuzzi but who show outstanding potential. Stephen Adekolu, Brett Blaszco, and Shaq Johnson. Add in first round draft choice Danny Vandervoot and we will be releasing some very good potential receiving National talent at the end of this 2017 training camp.
A training camp situation to watch will be whether our Leos choose to keep O'Halloran or go with rookie Dakota Brush as a fullback/tight end depth player behind Lumbala.
Our starting lineup on the offensive line will very likely be Husband at center, Fabian and Vaillencourt at guard, and Steward at left tackle. Right tackle will likely be our only key starting offensive line decision with returner Antonio Johnson battling it out with Kelvin Palmer, with Epps and Isles on the outside lookin in.
Facault will back up Steward to begin the year and Dhillon will back up at center/guard. Zver will need to be protected.
We're set at quarterback with Jennings, Lulay, and Price unless Alex Ross can make enough of an impression to unseat Price.
At tailback, Johnson is back as the starter with Rainey as the rotational back. Josh Harris will lkely be kept for depth but we need to find a way to keep Tyler Davis as a reciever/tailback/returner. Shaq Murray Lawrence is a backup National tailback/returner who has under impressed so far in a Leos uniform but his National status may mean he stays around.
The offensive battles of this 2017 training camp are at right tackle and receiver. We know that Manny and Burnham are starters and Williams will be. Right now, Buono is keeping his options open and either National Marco Iannuzzi or import Nick Moore are slated at the outside slot position. Adekolu is lining up as the outside fifth receiver but will likely give way to Iannuzzi, should Buono go with an International at the wide slot position.
Nick Moore is a quality a receiver but he also has an injury history and we have some very good talent at International receiver for 2017.
As for our National receivers there are a bunch of them who have had little or no opportunity behind favored Marco Iannuzzi but who show outstanding potential. Stephen Adekolu, Brett Blaszco, and Shaq Johnson. Add in first round draft choice Danny Vandervoot and we will be releasing some very good potential receiving National talent at the end of this 2017 training camp.
A training camp situation to watch will be whether our Leos choose to keep O'Halloran or go with rookie Dakota Brush as a fullback/tight end depth player behind Lumbala.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Training camp Day 6
Friday, June 2, 2017 - afternoon session
The only practice of a sunny but breezy Friday in Kamloops was marred by the loss of nose tackle Mic'hael Brooks to an apparent left shoulder injury. Brooks made a move to gain penetration in inside run play, then immediately dropped to the ground in pain, ripping off his helmet and shoulder pads in the process. He was immediately attended to by the trainers and Bill Reichelt. After several long minutes, he was stabilized and walked to the sidelines, where he sat on the bench holding his shoulder for the rest of the day. Hopefully the injury won't keep him out of action for long.
Aside from Brooks, most of the injury news from Friday was positive. Chris Williams took part in light drills for the first time but retreated to the sidelines for the more intense drills. Buddy Jackson, Frank Alexander and Dylan Ainsworth remained on the sidelines, stretching and riding the bike, as they have for several days.
Anthony Gaitor again filled in for Jackson as field halfback and was the defensive player of the day with three knockdowns. Cleveland Wallace and Jason Arakgi also had knockdowns. Arakgi's knockdown in team play should have been an interception. Loucheiz Purifoy had the only interception of the day in one-on-ones.
Jonathon Jennings and Bryan Burnham continued their magic from last year, connecting on several intermediate passes across the middle. There were no deep completions on a day when the wind played havoc with timing between QBs and receivers.
I tried to focus ore on offensive and defensive line play, and wasn't disappointed. The first-team offensive line didn't seem to give up any penetration all afternoon. Charles Vaillancourt seems to have slid in nicely at left guard between Cody Husband and Hunter Steward. That unit also combined to open some nice holes for the run game, although no one could block Solomon Elimimian, who remains a tackling machine.
Most of the defensive plays came against second and third string linemen. Maxx Forde, Craig Roh and Tony Burnett had tackles for loss. Burnett made several plays from the weakside linebacker position. Third-team DE Ken Boatright was impressive. He knocked down Manny Arceneaux to break up a pass in skelly and blew by David Foucault for an apparent sack in team play. Luther Maddy had what would have been two sacks up the middle. Chandler Fenner, Andrew Hudson and Micah Awe also had potential sacks, all against backup linemen.
Foucault struggled a few times with outside pressure but looked strong against inside moves. Kelvin Palmer looked good as second-team right tackle. Vincent Brown also looked good and got in one of two scraps on the day, wrestling with a couple of backup defensive linemen.
Slotback R.J. Harris also took exception to a late hit by Adrian Clarke, throwing the ball at him after the play. Clarke responded by shoving Harris in the facemask. Nothing further came of it.
Corey Jones, who continued to take first-team reps as boundary wideout, had the offensive play of the day when he caught a fade route against Ronnie Yell in a 2-point convert drill, earning hoots and high-fives from teammates. Manny Arceneaux had the only other score of the day in the same drill when Gaitor collided with a teammate in coverage and fell down.
Friday afternoon saw the biggest crowds of camp so far, which should be a good sign for the weekend. Barring last-minute changes, the final two-a-days before Tuesday's preseason game are scheduled for Saturday at 9:30 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. One practice is scheduled for Sunday at 3:30 p.m.
Friday, June 2, 2017 - afternoon session
The only practice of a sunny but breezy Friday in Kamloops was marred by the loss of nose tackle Mic'hael Brooks to an apparent left shoulder injury. Brooks made a move to gain penetration in inside run play, then immediately dropped to the ground in pain, ripping off his helmet and shoulder pads in the process. He was immediately attended to by the trainers and Bill Reichelt. After several long minutes, he was stabilized and walked to the sidelines, where he sat on the bench holding his shoulder for the rest of the day. Hopefully the injury won't keep him out of action for long.
Aside from Brooks, most of the injury news from Friday was positive. Chris Williams took part in light drills for the first time but retreated to the sidelines for the more intense drills. Buddy Jackson, Frank Alexander and Dylan Ainsworth remained on the sidelines, stretching and riding the bike, as they have for several days.
Anthony Gaitor again filled in for Jackson as field halfback and was the defensive player of the day with three knockdowns. Cleveland Wallace and Jason Arakgi also had knockdowns. Arakgi's knockdown in team play should have been an interception. Loucheiz Purifoy had the only interception of the day in one-on-ones.
Jonathon Jennings and Bryan Burnham continued their magic from last year, connecting on several intermediate passes across the middle. There were no deep completions on a day when the wind played havoc with timing between QBs and receivers.
I tried to focus ore on offensive and defensive line play, and wasn't disappointed. The first-team offensive line didn't seem to give up any penetration all afternoon. Charles Vaillancourt seems to have slid in nicely at left guard between Cody Husband and Hunter Steward. That unit also combined to open some nice holes for the run game, although no one could block Solomon Elimimian, who remains a tackling machine.
Most of the defensive plays came against second and third string linemen. Maxx Forde, Craig Roh and Tony Burnett had tackles for loss. Burnett made several plays from the weakside linebacker position. Third-team DE Ken Boatright was impressive. He knocked down Manny Arceneaux to break up a pass in skelly and blew by David Foucault for an apparent sack in team play. Luther Maddy had what would have been two sacks up the middle. Chandler Fenner, Andrew Hudson and Micah Awe also had potential sacks, all against backup linemen.
Foucault struggled a few times with outside pressure but looked strong against inside moves. Kelvin Palmer looked good as second-team right tackle. Vincent Brown also looked good and got in one of two scraps on the day, wrestling with a couple of backup defensive linemen.
Slotback R.J. Harris also took exception to a late hit by Adrian Clarke, throwing the ball at him after the play. Clarke responded by shoving Harris in the facemask. Nothing further came of it.
Corey Jones, who continued to take first-team reps as boundary wideout, had the offensive play of the day when he caught a fade route against Ronnie Yell in a 2-point convert drill, earning hoots and high-fives from teammates. Manny Arceneaux had the only other score of the day in the same drill when Gaitor collided with a teammate in coverage and fell down.
Friday afternoon saw the biggest crowds of camp so far, which should be a good sign for the weekend. Barring last-minute changes, the final two-a-days before Tuesday's preseason game are scheduled for Saturday at 9:30 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. One practice is scheduled for Sunday at 3:30 p.m.
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Gridiron Ernie
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I'm these days wondering about our kickers competition through camp so far, with B.C.FAN having already observed/commented a time or two about young Ty Long regularly out-punting Swayze Waters and seemingly, if I understood it, keeping pace so far with accuracy and consistency on converts and field-goals...
Could there be a bit of a surprise shuffle coming here, down the road? Given that (as already noted by B.C.FAN) Long is six years younger than Waters (who is 30) and Long no doubt potentially comes cheaper as a CFL rookie?
But how would that play out in light of contracts signed -- as I'm not sure -- does Waters maybe have some security in whatever contract he signed -- can't recall details/nature of his signing? Anyone can get cut of course -- but perhaps a wrong choice here would cost the Lions in a couple ways... Of course I'm getting ahead of myself here a little, as we've not even played a preseason game! But I'm keen to see how this plays out.
Could there be a bit of a surprise shuffle coming here, down the road? Given that (as already noted by B.C.FAN) Long is six years younger than Waters (who is 30) and Long no doubt potentially comes cheaper as a CFL rookie?
But how would that play out in light of contracts signed -- as I'm not sure -- does Waters maybe have some security in whatever contract he signed -- can't recall details/nature of his signing? Anyone can get cut of course -- but perhaps a wrong choice here would cost the Lions in a couple ways... Of course I'm getting ahead of myself here a little, as we've not even played a preseason game! But I'm keen to see how this plays out.
I think the Lions are committed to Waters and are counting on him to use his experience to come through under pressure. The Lions gambled and lost with an inexperienced placekicker in the past two years. Long has yet to face game pressure, so he's probably too much of a risk for Wally. That said, he continues to look good. The Lions didn't practise punting on Friday but they had a couple of field goal sessions. I thought Long had a slight edge and he showed a lot of strength kicking into the wind. Waters' kicks had plenty of distance but they got caught up in the wind and came straight down in the end zone.Gridiron Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:43 pmI'm these days wondering about our kickers competition through camp so far, with B.C.FAN having already observed/commented a time or two about young Ty Long regularly out-punting Swayze Waters and seemingly, if I understood it, keeping pace so far with accuracy and consistency on converts and field-goals...
Could there be a bit of a surprise shuffle coming here, down the road? Given that (as already noted by B.C.FAN) Long is six years younger than Waters (who is 30) and Long no doubt potentially comes cheaper as a CFL rookie?
But how would that play out in light of contracts signed -- as I'm not sure -- does Waters maybe have some security in whatever contract he signed -- can't recall details/nature of his signing? Anyone can get cut of course -- but perhaps a wrong choice here would cost the Lions in a couple ways... Of course I'm getting ahead of myself here a little, as we've not even played a preseason game! But I'm keen to see how this plays out.
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Gridiron Ernie
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Yup -- I concur -- you're probably right about Wally having little to no appetite for more risk (regards our kicking game) considering the past couple bumpy years with that. Still, he might end up with a dilemma. Not such a bad problem to have though I guess! Far better having two good and/or promising kickers to choose between than having to tempt a certain 'seasoned' fellow out of retirement (again)...
Anyhow, thanks again B.C.FAN, for the latest (Day 6) evening report -- some more keen observations/colourful detail. Appreciated. And, just thinking again now, how impressed I am with Wally & Co's recruitment/assembling such depth right across the board. Oh boy! It's exciting to hope for creativity and innovation (re scheme) to fully compliment what we have here in manpower and skill.
Anyhow, thanks again B.C.FAN, for the latest (Day 6) evening report -- some more keen observations/colourful detail. Appreciated. And, just thinking again now, how impressed I am with Wally & Co's recruitment/assembling such depth right across the board. Oh boy! It's exciting to hope for creativity and innovation (re scheme) to fully compliment what we have here in manpower and skill.
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SammyGreene
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Thanks BC FAN. Terrific breakdown. IMHO only a matter of time before Gaitor jumps ahead of Jackson on the depth chart and reclaims his starting halfback position, especially with the latter currently injured.
Manny, Burnham and Williams are locks at receiver. Who knows about the rest including how many nationals the Lions will start and which ones will ultimately be on the game day roster. Sounds like Jones is making the most of his opportunity as Williams slowly makes progress.
Manny, Burnham and Williams are locks at receiver. Who knows about the rest including how many nationals the Lions will start and which ones will ultimately be on the game day roster. Sounds like Jones is making the most of his opportunity as Williams slowly makes progress.
I would like to see the better kicker get the job rather than the 'safe' kicker . As long as the rookie is consistent , why not go with him if he can out distance Waters easily ? Did not Waters himself go into some sort of a funk himself in the past? If so , why would he be the safer option?B.C.FAN wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:11 pmI think the Lions are committed to Waters and are counting on him to use his experience to come through under pressure. The Lions gambled and lost with an inexperienced placekicker in the past two years. Long has yet to face game pressure, so he's probably too much of a risk for Wally. That said, he continues to look good. The Lions didn't practise punting on Friday but they had a couple of field goal sessions. I thought Long had a slight edge and he showed a lot of strength kicking into the wind. Waters' kicks had plenty of distance but they got caught up in the wind and came straight down in the end zone.Gridiron Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:43 pmI'm these days wondering about our kickers competition through camp so far, with B.C.FAN having already observed/commented a time or two about young Ty Long regularly out-punting Swayze Waters and seemingly, if I understood it, keeping pace so far with accuracy and consistency on converts and field-goals...
Could there be a bit of a surprise shuffle coming here, down the road? Given that (as already noted by B.C.FAN) Long is six years younger than Waters (who is 30) and Long no doubt potentially comes cheaper as a CFL rookie?
But how would that play out in light of contracts signed -- as I'm not sure -- does Waters maybe have some security in whatever contract he signed -- can't recall details/nature of his signing? Anyone can get cut of course -- but perhaps a wrong choice here would cost the Lions in a couple ways... Of course I'm getting ahead of myself here a little, as we've not even played a preseason game! But I'm keen to see how this plays out.
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Hambone
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The better kicker in camp doesn't necessarily equate to the better kicker when it counts. If I can make one observation it's that over the years I've seen many times where NFL teams opted for the young kicker be it for punting or placekicking and 3 games into the season they're desperately looking for a veteran kicker because the kid isn't living up to his training camp promise. The one thing to consider with these two guys is that if Wally wants to keep both on the roster I think he can do it by putting Long on the PR. As a veteran I highly doubt Waters would accept the PR assignment. If he did I think he'd be staying close to the phone and be ready to bolt as soon as someone else offers him a job. I think it's Waters' job to lose. Long's TC and ex-game reps will have to be such that he gives Wally no choice but to take him over Waters.pennw wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:00 am]I would like to see the better kicker get the job rather than the 'safe' kicker . As long as the rookie is consistent , why not go with him if he can out distance Waters easily ? Did not Waters himself go into some sort of a funk himself in the past? If so , why would he be the safer option?
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
Training camp Day 7
Saturday, June 3, 2017 - morning session
Players were on the field in helmets only Saturday morning, except for Shaq Murray-Lawrence who walked back to the dorm in street clothes just before practice began. I haven't heard an update on his condition. I thought he'd been having a good camp. More on that later.
Mic'hael Brooks was among the players in jerseys on the sidelines, doing light stretching and riding the bike. That's probably a good sign that his apparent shoulder injury suffered Friday afternoon isn't too serious. LT Hunter Steward and LB Solomon Elimimian also sat out practice for the first time. WR Chris Williams was back on the sidelines after taking part in light duties for a second day. DB Mondo Williams, DT Frank Alexander and DE/DT Dylan Ainsworth remained out of action.
David Foucault took first-team reps for Steward at LT and again struggled. He was beaten cleanly to the outside on speed moves by Craig Roh on back to back plays in line drills. He looked better in team sessions but wasn't tested to the outside. Vincent Brown, the international tackle who is third on the depth chart behind Steward, was also beaten on back to back plays. The Lions simply can't afford to lose Steward without risking an injury to one or more quarterbacks.
Jason Arakgi took first-team reps at middle linebacker in place of Elimimian. Maxx Forde and Junior Luke took first-team reps as defensive tackles. Together with regular cornerback Keynan Parker, that gave the Lions four national starters on defence for one day at least, which is an indication of the depth of talent on the Lions' defence.
Anthony Gaitor took first-team reps at wideside halfback, while Buddy Jackson lined up with the second team in simultaneous team play at the opposite end of the field. Gaitor was beaten a couple of times in coverage. Jackson had the only interception of the day and made a point of returning it all the way to the end zone, right past the first-team unit at the other end of the field. This will be an interesting battle to watch.
WR/KR Tyler Davis continued to impress, scoring a TD in team play. Shaq Johnson, who doesn't yet have a spot on the depth chart but has looked good at slotback since returning from injury, also had a TD in skelly, as did R.J. Harris and Nick Moore.
Barring a last-minute trip next weekend, Saturday morning was my eighth and final practice of training camp 2017. Here are some thoughts on the battles to watch by position group on both sides of the ball, and some players who have stood out in a good or bad way.
DEFENCE
The depth of the B.C. secondary has been mentioned in this thread and elsewhere, and the defensive line and linebackers are equally impressive. The Lions could pick two starting defences from their training camp roster and still have quality players as backups.
Secondary
Matt Bucknor, Anthony Gaitor, Chandler Fenner, Tevin McDonald and Cleveland Wallace could make a good starting secondary, yet they're all listed as backups on the official depth chart. Only Bucknor is assured of a job by virtue of his national status, although it's a safe bet that Gaitor will be on the opening day roster somewhere. Fenner is also getting work on special teams, which is a sign that the coaches expect to have a spot for him. Official first teamers, Ronnie Yell, T.J. Lee, Steven Clarke, Buddy Jackson and Keynan Parker have all looked like first-teamers. I haven't seen a lot of interceptions in practice this week, but based on talent alone this secondary is vastly better than last year's. National backups Anthony Thompson and Nate Hamlin have taken regular reps and have not looked out of place.
Linebacker
There is only one Solomon Elimimian, and he has been as dominant as ever in camp. But the Lions can surround him with a quality group of linebackers. Loucheiz Purifoy looks to be starting where he left off in his first season at nickelback. Cam Ontko has taken first-team reps at weakside linebacker but has not stood out. Free agent Tony Burnett has made the most of his reps at that position in recent days. Ontko strikes me as more of a hard-nosed run-stopper, while Burnett is a converted DB who excels in coverage. If Mark Washington wants his weakside linebacker to drop back 20 yards in a deep cover-2 defence, Burnett would probably have an edge but I haven't seen any signs of that defence in the first week of camp. Micah Awe, who backs up Elimimian, has been noticeable in camp, especially on the blitz. The Lions look to still rely on their linebackers to generate pressure on the QB, and they have had success on the blitz in team play. Fenner has looked good in pass coverage as second-team nickelback, while nationals Jordan Herdman, Nehemie Kankolongo, Adrian Clarke and Frederic Chagnon have all made good plays. Those four nationals all wear numbers in the 40s, and I've had to consult my roster regularly to learn who's who. They're worth watching. Most of them are taking regular reps on special teams and will likely still be around when the season starts. You can never have too many linebackers on special teams.
Defensive line
DE Craig Roh, NT Mic'hael Brooks, DT Bryant Turner Jr. and DE DeQuin Evans have been listed as first-teamers since the start of camp but injuries have given others a chance to shine. I can't say enough about the play of national DTs Maxx Forde and Junior Luke and DE David Menard. Collectively, they are too good to not at least share one starting position on the DL, which could help immensely with the ratio on offence. Roh and Evans have both made a lot of plays off the edge. Neither is a threat to challenge for the league lead in sacks but the B.C. defensive scheme isn't structured to generate pressure from a four-man rush. DE Ken Boatright has showed good speed off the edge and could yet challenge for a roster spot. DT Frank Alexander came to the Lions with good credentials but has been sidelined by a foot injury and hasn't yet showed what he could do. Turner has also spent much of the week on the sidelines. If the Lions choose to start a national on the DL, it would likely be at the 3-tech position where Turner and Alexander are slotted on the depth chart.
OFFENCE
Quarterback
No surprises here. Jonathon Jennings and Travis Lulay are established at the head of the pecking order. Keith Price looks like a solid No. 3 again, showing a strong arm and some nice throws and quick reads. Rookie Alex Ross appears to have an equally strong arm but is at a big disadvantage in trying to learn the Canadian game and the Lions' offence and has looked indecisive in the pocket. But Wally has been known to toss aside third-string quarterbacks and start over when a new project comes along, so this battle is far from being settled.
Running back
Jeremiah Johnson and Chris Rainey have been outstanding and look poised to make a good 1-2 punch. Shaq Murray-Lawrence also seems to have had a good camp and has finally been showing the 4.41-second speed that got him drafted out of UNLV as a RB and KR. Josh Harris has been a complete non-factor. Every time I see him I wonder why he's here, but he has the disadvantage of playing behind backup O-linemen who have struggled to open holes all week.
Receiver
This should be a position of strength for the Lions but it is instead a position of concern. Slotbacks Manny Arceneaux and Bryan Burnham have looked as good as ever and should each be able to again connect with Jonathon Jennings for 1,000-yard seasons. But we saw last year how defences in Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg adjusted to plug up the middle, particularly by playing man/cover 2 to take away the intermediate and deep zones. The free-agent acquisition of Chris Williams and the return to health of outside SB Nick Moore were widely seen as the keys to diversifying the B.C. passing game and spreading the ball to targets all over the field. So far, Williams' position as boundary WR remains up in the air while he continues to recover from surgery. Corey Jones has taken all first-team reps and has shown good quickness and route-running but has struggled to adjust to balls in the air. Tyler Davis is an intriguing prospect at that position and should earn a spot on the practice roster at least as an athletic receiving prospect and kick returner. Moore appears to be the victim of a numbers game (see the defensive line discussion) and has lost his position to national Marco Iannuzzi, while fellow national Stephen Adekolu has moved into Iannunzi's old spot as fifth receiver. Both national receivers have look good in catching the ball, but Moore also has looked good and is more of a downfield threat than Iannuzzi. Among other international receivers, Deon Long has probably stood out the most. Douglas McNeil, who spent time on the practice roster last year, has not stood out. As mentioned earlier, second-year national Shaq Johnson does not have a spot on the official depth chart but has looked good since coming back from injury in the middle of the week and could challenge Brett Blaszko for the sixth receiver position. Rookie Danny Vandervoort looks assured of a roster spot by virtue of his special teams play. He has showed an ability to make tough catches over the middle but he's not a downfield threat. QBs have targeting him on deep routes in recent days and he has not been able to catch up to the ball.
Offensive line
This is position of strength and weakness due to lack of depth. The starting five of LT Hunter Steward, LG Charles Vaillancourt, centre Cody Husband, RG Kirby Fabien and RT Antonio Johnson may be as good as any in the league. There is no clear sixth man in this roster. David Foucault is guaranteed a spot as a backup to Steward but he is not ready to see regular action until he shows he can handle speed rushers. Quinn Horton and Jas Dhillon are probably competing for roster spots as the seventh lineman. Kelvin Palmer, who started one game at RT last year, has looked good as backup to Johnson as RT and could be an option as a starter if anything happens to Steward, but that would require a ratio adjustment. Second-round draft pick Jeremy Zver will likely be offered at least a practice roster spot.
Saturday, June 3, 2017 - morning session
Players were on the field in helmets only Saturday morning, except for Shaq Murray-Lawrence who walked back to the dorm in street clothes just before practice began. I haven't heard an update on his condition. I thought he'd been having a good camp. More on that later.
Mic'hael Brooks was among the players in jerseys on the sidelines, doing light stretching and riding the bike. That's probably a good sign that his apparent shoulder injury suffered Friday afternoon isn't too serious. LT Hunter Steward and LB Solomon Elimimian also sat out practice for the first time. WR Chris Williams was back on the sidelines after taking part in light duties for a second day. DB Mondo Williams, DT Frank Alexander and DE/DT Dylan Ainsworth remained out of action.
David Foucault took first-team reps for Steward at LT and again struggled. He was beaten cleanly to the outside on speed moves by Craig Roh on back to back plays in line drills. He looked better in team sessions but wasn't tested to the outside. Vincent Brown, the international tackle who is third on the depth chart behind Steward, was also beaten on back to back plays. The Lions simply can't afford to lose Steward without risking an injury to one or more quarterbacks.
Jason Arakgi took first-team reps at middle linebacker in place of Elimimian. Maxx Forde and Junior Luke took first-team reps as defensive tackles. Together with regular cornerback Keynan Parker, that gave the Lions four national starters on defence for one day at least, which is an indication of the depth of talent on the Lions' defence.
Anthony Gaitor took first-team reps at wideside halfback, while Buddy Jackson lined up with the second team in simultaneous team play at the opposite end of the field. Gaitor was beaten a couple of times in coverage. Jackson had the only interception of the day and made a point of returning it all the way to the end zone, right past the first-team unit at the other end of the field. This will be an interesting battle to watch.
WR/KR Tyler Davis continued to impress, scoring a TD in team play. Shaq Johnson, who doesn't yet have a spot on the depth chart but has looked good at slotback since returning from injury, also had a TD in skelly, as did R.J. Harris and Nick Moore.
Barring a last-minute trip next weekend, Saturday morning was my eighth and final practice of training camp 2017. Here are some thoughts on the battles to watch by position group on both sides of the ball, and some players who have stood out in a good or bad way.
DEFENCE
The depth of the B.C. secondary has been mentioned in this thread and elsewhere, and the defensive line and linebackers are equally impressive. The Lions could pick two starting defences from their training camp roster and still have quality players as backups.
Secondary
Matt Bucknor, Anthony Gaitor, Chandler Fenner, Tevin McDonald and Cleveland Wallace could make a good starting secondary, yet they're all listed as backups on the official depth chart. Only Bucknor is assured of a job by virtue of his national status, although it's a safe bet that Gaitor will be on the opening day roster somewhere. Fenner is also getting work on special teams, which is a sign that the coaches expect to have a spot for him. Official first teamers, Ronnie Yell, T.J. Lee, Steven Clarke, Buddy Jackson and Keynan Parker have all looked like first-teamers. I haven't seen a lot of interceptions in practice this week, but based on talent alone this secondary is vastly better than last year's. National backups Anthony Thompson and Nate Hamlin have taken regular reps and have not looked out of place.
Linebacker
There is only one Solomon Elimimian, and he has been as dominant as ever in camp. But the Lions can surround him with a quality group of linebackers. Loucheiz Purifoy looks to be starting where he left off in his first season at nickelback. Cam Ontko has taken first-team reps at weakside linebacker but has not stood out. Free agent Tony Burnett has made the most of his reps at that position in recent days. Ontko strikes me as more of a hard-nosed run-stopper, while Burnett is a converted DB who excels in coverage. If Mark Washington wants his weakside linebacker to drop back 20 yards in a deep cover-2 defence, Burnett would probably have an edge but I haven't seen any signs of that defence in the first week of camp. Micah Awe, who backs up Elimimian, has been noticeable in camp, especially on the blitz. The Lions look to still rely on their linebackers to generate pressure on the QB, and they have had success on the blitz in team play. Fenner has looked good in pass coverage as second-team nickelback, while nationals Jordan Herdman, Nehemie Kankolongo, Adrian Clarke and Frederic Chagnon have all made good plays. Those four nationals all wear numbers in the 40s, and I've had to consult my roster regularly to learn who's who. They're worth watching. Most of them are taking regular reps on special teams and will likely still be around when the season starts. You can never have too many linebackers on special teams.
Defensive line
DE Craig Roh, NT Mic'hael Brooks, DT Bryant Turner Jr. and DE DeQuin Evans have been listed as first-teamers since the start of camp but injuries have given others a chance to shine. I can't say enough about the play of national DTs Maxx Forde and Junior Luke and DE David Menard. Collectively, they are too good to not at least share one starting position on the DL, which could help immensely with the ratio on offence. Roh and Evans have both made a lot of plays off the edge. Neither is a threat to challenge for the league lead in sacks but the B.C. defensive scheme isn't structured to generate pressure from a four-man rush. DE Ken Boatright has showed good speed off the edge and could yet challenge for a roster spot. DT Frank Alexander came to the Lions with good credentials but has been sidelined by a foot injury and hasn't yet showed what he could do. Turner has also spent much of the week on the sidelines. If the Lions choose to start a national on the DL, it would likely be at the 3-tech position where Turner and Alexander are slotted on the depth chart.
OFFENCE
Quarterback
No surprises here. Jonathon Jennings and Travis Lulay are established at the head of the pecking order. Keith Price looks like a solid No. 3 again, showing a strong arm and some nice throws and quick reads. Rookie Alex Ross appears to have an equally strong arm but is at a big disadvantage in trying to learn the Canadian game and the Lions' offence and has looked indecisive in the pocket. But Wally has been known to toss aside third-string quarterbacks and start over when a new project comes along, so this battle is far from being settled.
Running back
Jeremiah Johnson and Chris Rainey have been outstanding and look poised to make a good 1-2 punch. Shaq Murray-Lawrence also seems to have had a good camp and has finally been showing the 4.41-second speed that got him drafted out of UNLV as a RB and KR. Josh Harris has been a complete non-factor. Every time I see him I wonder why he's here, but he has the disadvantage of playing behind backup O-linemen who have struggled to open holes all week.
Receiver
This should be a position of strength for the Lions but it is instead a position of concern. Slotbacks Manny Arceneaux and Bryan Burnham have looked as good as ever and should each be able to again connect with Jonathon Jennings for 1,000-yard seasons. But we saw last year how defences in Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg adjusted to plug up the middle, particularly by playing man/cover 2 to take away the intermediate and deep zones. The free-agent acquisition of Chris Williams and the return to health of outside SB Nick Moore were widely seen as the keys to diversifying the B.C. passing game and spreading the ball to targets all over the field. So far, Williams' position as boundary WR remains up in the air while he continues to recover from surgery. Corey Jones has taken all first-team reps and has shown good quickness and route-running but has struggled to adjust to balls in the air. Tyler Davis is an intriguing prospect at that position and should earn a spot on the practice roster at least as an athletic receiving prospect and kick returner. Moore appears to be the victim of a numbers game (see the defensive line discussion) and has lost his position to national Marco Iannuzzi, while fellow national Stephen Adekolu has moved into Iannunzi's old spot as fifth receiver. Both national receivers have look good in catching the ball, but Moore also has looked good and is more of a downfield threat than Iannuzzi. Among other international receivers, Deon Long has probably stood out the most. Douglas McNeil, who spent time on the practice roster last year, has not stood out. As mentioned earlier, second-year national Shaq Johnson does not have a spot on the official depth chart but has looked good since coming back from injury in the middle of the week and could challenge Brett Blaszko for the sixth receiver position. Rookie Danny Vandervoort looks assured of a roster spot by virtue of his special teams play. He has showed an ability to make tough catches over the middle but he's not a downfield threat. QBs have targeting him on deep routes in recent days and he has not been able to catch up to the ball.
Offensive line
This is position of strength and weakness due to lack of depth. The starting five of LT Hunter Steward, LG Charles Vaillancourt, centre Cody Husband, RG Kirby Fabien and RT Antonio Johnson may be as good as any in the league. There is no clear sixth man in this roster. David Foucault is guaranteed a spot as a backup to Steward but he is not ready to see regular action until he shows he can handle speed rushers. Quinn Horton and Jas Dhillon are probably competing for roster spots as the seventh lineman. Kelvin Palmer, who started one game at RT last year, has looked good as backup to Johnson as RT and could be an option as a starter if anything happens to Steward, but that would require a ratio adjustment. Second-round draft pick Jeremy Zver will likely be offered at least a practice roster spot.
That may be true that a good practice kicker does not necessarily translate into a good game kicker . But it is also not true that a rookie kicker who looks good in camp is necessarily no good in a game either . All good kickers were rookies once and some one took a chance on them based on what they saw in practice . And what about Waters himself having had game difficulties himself in the past ? Why was he not wanted back with his previous team ? He appears to have sat out the 2016 season.Hambone wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:09 pmThe better kicker in camp doesn't necessarily equate to the better kicker when it counts. If I can make one observation it's that over the years I've seen many times where NFL teams opted for the young kicker be it for punting or placekicking and 3 games into the season they're desperately looking for a veteran kicker because the kid isn't living up to his training camp promise. The one thing to consider with these two guys is that if Wally wants to keep both on the roster I think he can do it by putting Long on the PR. As a veteran I highly doubt Waters would accept the PR assignment. If he did I think he'd be staying close to the phone and be ready to bolt as soon as someone else offers him a job. I think it's Waters' job to lose. Long's TC and ex-game reps will have to be such that he gives Wally no choice but to take him over Waters.pennw wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:00 am]I would like to see the better kicker get the job rather than the 'safe' kicker . As long as the rookie is consistent , why not go with him if he can out distance Waters easily ? Did not Waters himself go into some sort of a funk himself in the past? If so , why would he be the safer option?
Outstanding coverage, BC FAN. Thank you!
Disappointed to hear about David Foucault's struggles with the speed rush. We gave up a lot for him. If he ends up being "average" to a bit below, it could go down as one of the most lopsided deals in club history. It's still waaaay to early to tell though.
Still, talent abounds on this club. With the exception of perhaps the O-line, we could create a BC Lions "B" team and it would be competitive. I hate to think who the cuts might be. That will be tragic.
DH
Disappointed to hear about David Foucault's struggles with the speed rush. We gave up a lot for him. If he ends up being "average" to a bit below, it could go down as one of the most lopsided deals in club history. It's still waaaay to early to tell though.
Still, talent abounds on this club. With the exception of perhaps the O-line, we could create a BC Lions "B" team and it would be competitive. I hate to think who the cuts might be. That will be tragic.
DH
Roar, You Lions, Roar