Jovan leaves the Den. Confirmation on Page 8.

[Blitz]

Thanks for posting WCJ...interesting read.

This Olifioye/Facault trade has created a lot of good discussion. We probably won't know what those future considerations are until next year. I hope they won't be too painful.

A few thoughts:

1. Facault and Contract and Starting

Facault is not going to sign cheap. He will not only want starters money but he also wants to start. With the media all over Wally yesterday about trading Olifioye, Wally must also be feeling pressure to justify this trade. My best guess is that we will see Facault as a starter to begin this season or not too long after.

How will Wally do that. One way is to start Facault at left tackle and keep Hunter Steward at guard. A second way would be to start Steward at left tackle and Facault at left guard and have Facault shift out to left tackle should Steward get hurt. I anticipate lots of very positive comments about Facault's play at training camp from Leo coaches, whether deserved or not. Facault will be given every opportunity to start. Either Kirby Fabian or Vaillencourt will be the depth player should Facault start this season.

I have a feeling that Hunter Steward is the next Leo lineman with a target on his back. Steward only signed for one season. He was smart enough not to sign for two years or more, get a decent contract, and then have Wally come back and ask him to take a pay cut in Year 2.

Wally really needed Steward to sign for this season, as Wally wanted to go with four Internationals on the offensive line and the only way that Wally could do that, at the time he signed Steward, was to pay him what he was worth for one year. But Wally does not like to pay market value for offensive linemen. Steward could test free agency next season. I was surprised that he didn't for 2017. Steward is massive, athletic, powreful, very quick for a big man, has a huge wingspan which is a real advantage for playing the tackle position.

With Steward having the ability to play both guard and left tackle and also being a National he would be coveted as a free agent and we should have gotten him signed for more than one year. But with the money Wally was offering, Steward would not commit to a longer term.

Signing Free Agents Does Not Happen in a Bubble

If there is one thing that the Olifioye trade reinforces, is that, as Leo fans, we need to not over-celebrate free agent signings. Nothing happens in isolation. Signing one player can lead to another Leo player being cut, asked to take a salary cut, or being traded. It curbs one's enthusiasm for player signings, knowing that there likely will be repurcussions. It should make Leo fans more guarded about a signing. We may have gained a player but we may also lose another. For example, Wally's free agent signings for 2016 led to Adam Bighill being asked to take a salary cut and not being signed longer term. That led to Bighill departure for this season,

Sign and Request a Salary Cut the Next Season

Lowell Ullrich highlighted a pattern of Buono and the SMS. The pattern is that Wally will sign a player to a contract at market value, in order not to lose that player and then come back to that player, the following season, after signing free agents, and ask the player to take a salary cut.

I find this a manipulative and dishonorable practice, even though you there is nothing preventing it. I believe a contract should be honored, both by a GM or a player. I can understand it, should circumstances change (eg: Jennings becoming a starter) and asking for more money or a player who was a starter in the first year of the contract but is no longer in that role).

But overall, signing a contract is a commitment from both parties. I don't believe anyone of us would consider it a fair or honorable practice to sign a contract for more than one year and then have our boss ask us to reduce our pay significantly in Year 2, for no reason other than he wanted to hire someone else in a different department.

I also question the practice of a pattern of asking players to take a wage cut in Year 2 of a contract, in terms of player morale and loyalty. Obviously any player is going to be unhappy after being asked to take a pay cut, for no good reason, in terms of his play. Is this the best way to manage the SMS? Wouldn't it be better to only sign free agents that we can afford at the time, rather than signing them and then going back to Leo vets who have been loyal and given it their all and ask them to take a pay cut. It seems ass backwards to me.

Facault at Right Tackle

The only way I will like the Facault/Olifioye trade for 2017 is if we could start five Nationals on the offensive line, if all are healthy. Starting Steward and Facuult at tackle, Fabian and Vaillencourt at guard, and Husband at center makes sense to me, if Facault is as good as is being projected by some. We could draft an offensive lineman with the ability to back up at tackle.

But I highly doubt that we will go in that direction. Wally made this trade to cut salary and have a National backup left tackle. When Wally says that the trade will allow him to play four Nationals on the offensive line, what Wally was really saying was that he would not go with four Nationals on the offensive line this season unless the had a backup National tackle. He didn't say that. He spun it as trading for Facault would allow him to play four Nationals but he could have done that and kept Olifioye. Wally could also have drafted a backup offensive National tackle and kept Olifioye.

So basically I see the trade this way. We will play one International tackle and that tackle will not be nowhere near as good as Olifioye. We will have a backup National on the offensive line and that backup will either be Facault, Steward, Fabian, or Vaillencourt and I'm not betting it being Facault or if it is, not for very long.

[WestCoastJoe]

Wally mentions the cap as a factor. To this fan, that is the key in this head shaker of a move.

http://www.bclions.com/

"You have to give up a quality player to get Foucault." -- Wally Buono

Ummmm ... Not so sure about that, Coach. You have to give up a 29-year-old Hall-of-Fame-level tackle for a 28-year-old who is unproven, albeit with some potential, who is unsigned, and has never been a starter as a pro? This fan cannot buy the rationalization given.

To this fan, it comes down to the cap. And that is fair enough, but focusing on the SMS would be an admission, it seems, that the budget got blown by earlier signings.

So, some spin. Normal. But the end result is giving up Olafioye, who has played at a Hall-of-Fame-level to this time, IMO, giving him up for very, very little.

Is David Foucault the second coming of Josh Bourke? The odds are against that.

It is a done deal now. Fans have different opinions on it. Some like to debate it. This fan prefers to state his opinion and read the opinions of others, but does not want to debate, as points of view do not change. All sides have merit. It is all good.

Just IMO ...

[maxlion]

What led to our SMS woes? I'd suggest that the minor signings--Bucknor, Evans, Jackson, Ianuzzi--have little to no impact. They are all marginal players who likely get very close to league minimum with a small premium in light of their experience. If we didn't sign them, we would have to sign someone else for similar money.

Moore also is coming off another season of injury and likely signed for less than a player of his talent normally goes for. He could be the bargain of the year if he stays healthy.

We needed to give raises to Lee, Clarke, Yell, Johnson, Jennings and Stewart, which likely ate up more than the Bighill savings (given that he needs to be replaced by someone as well). Even with a high priced backup, we are in good shape SMS wise at QB.

We needed a kicker, and Waters was the best available. Having some stability there is needed.

The main change was adding an additional national olineman in exchange for an international receiver. Williams and Foucault in exchange for Olafioye and Gore or Ianuzzi (depending on whether Gore returns.).

It is a gamble, but it seems to me that the ALS are more at risk of losing this trade big time than the Lions are. Having strong Canadian depth and talent on the online is a huge advantage.

[DanoT]

I'm guessing that Foucault gets starters money and gets told to compete in TC for a starting OT or OG. So what happens next is then up to him and his new teammates and how well they do in TC and early regular season.

I am not guessing, I am certain that Foucault after being on an NFL PR and practicing against higher quality players than he played against in college means he is more CFL starter ready than anyone Wally can draft with his 3rd and 7th pick in the 2017 draft. This is IMO the main reason for trading for the rights to Foucault. The question is: Was the price paid (Olafioye) too high?

[BC 1988]

I'm guessing that Foucault gets starters money and gets told to compete in TC for a starting OT or OG. So what happens next is then up to him and his new teammates and how well they do in TC and early regular season.

I am not guessing, I am certain that Foucault after being on an NFL PR and practicing against higher quality players than he played against in college means he is more CFL starter ready than anyone Wally can draft with his 3rd and 7th pick in the 2017 draft. This is IMO the main reason for trading for the rights to Foucault. The question is: Was the price paid (Olafioye) too high?

Good points--I think you have summarized very well Wally's plan of action here.
Losing a known quantity to gamble on an unproven one may be too high a price.

At least Foucault has been healthy. The other big gambles IMO are Waters--he hasn't yet proven he can get back to 2014 form; and Chris Williams--he won't be ready to go for who knows how long.

[Blitz]

This passionate discussion continues.

On cfl.ca the aricle says it all

Lions Acquire Foucault in “A Trade of Cost”

BC head coach and GM Wally Buono explains the deal that saw Jovan Olafioye head to Montreal in exchange for the rights to former first round O-lineman David Foucault and international OL Vincent Brown.

The impetus was cost, following the signing of free agents. When Wally signed them he knew what he could afford or couldn't (and therefore requiring him to ask for a vet (Olifioye) to reduce salary.

The next step was what to do about it. The decision was to trade Olifioye as the choice to reduce costs.

That step was followed by letting other GM's know that Olifioye was available for trade. Wally wanted a player in return, who was a National and who would be less costly while also having talent. Wally was first interested in Montreal guard Phillipe Gagnon. Montreal would not trade Gagnon to B.C. for Olifioye. Our Leos next choice was Facault.

Facault, a National, was offered $80,000 - the salary range for a first round draft choice. Facault viewed himself as immediate starter material and wanted more money that Montreal was offering. Facault wanted a contract in the six figure range. Reed would not budge, not viewing him as a starter for 2017.

Reed wanted to go with two International tackles for 2017. Olifioye may play left or right tackle in Montreal, likely left tackle, but that decision will be determined at Montreal's training camp.

Montreal gave up the most sacks in the CFL last year. They really wanted a talented, proven offensive lineman to come in and shore up their offensive line, especially at the tackle positions. Olifioye, was expensive but the Als were willing to pay a much higher price for a proven All-Star, even though he is an International. Olifioye was willing to restructure his contract, with the Als giving him a signing bonus

Olifioye's comments on the trade:

“It’s a bittersweet day … a bittersweet feeling. I’ve been here for so long. I’ve been successful with this team and organization,” Olafioye told the Montreal Gazette by telephone. “I definitely didn’t see it coming. I do understand the business, although emotionally I’m still attached to this team — tied to the players here and the coaches.”

“The signing bonus was important,” said the Detroit native. “It’s good enough for me. I’m just ready to play football.”
Olafioye said he remains undaunted coming to a team that has struggled the last two seasons and hasn’t reached the Grey Cup since winning it in 2010.

“They have a lot of good pieces even though maybe their record didn’t reflect their team. Montreal’s still a good team and it was tough to play them, especially their defence.

’m confident about going there and being successful. To me, the East Division’s wide open. I’m excited about this new opportunity.”

Facault's wanted to sign with Montreal. He played his university football with the Université de Montréal Carabins and his family is there but Facault and his agent balked at the money Montreal was offering,

“Unfortunately, we couldn’t make a deal work with Montreal but, in the end, this is going to be a good move for all,” said Darren Gill, Foucault’s agent.

While, obviously from my previous posts, I would have preferred that we keep a proven CFL All-Star lineman and a very loyal one with great character, because that would have strengthened our starting lineup, with Olifioye playing right tackle, and even thought we first went after Montreal guard Phillipe Gagnon, that doesn't mean that I don't like Facault's potential. He is a big, long armed, athletic offensive tackle.

The deal is done. Hopefully Olifioye will continue to have great career success in Montreal and Facault will adjust his goals to the CFL game and have an excellent rookie season as a Leo.

[SammyGreene]

LU via Twitter

Today's Jovan Olafioye trade means if they like #BCLions can push up retirement announcement of Shawn Gore. Ratio needs had to be addressed.

Brutal news about Gore retiring. So Lions lose their top national reciever (by a considerable margin, sorry Marco) and offensive lineman. Throw in Bighill's departure and it's hard to argue this team is better on paper right now than in 2016.

It does, however, justify Wally wanting to change the ratio (and shed salary) too on the offensive line with a solid national like Gore out of the equation. And apparently they want the flexibility of starting 8 nationals but just 2 on defence. That seems like wishing thinking at this point.

[Blitz]

LU via Twitter

Today's Jovan Olafioye trade means if they like #BCLions can push up retirement announcement of Shawn Gore. Ratio needs had to be addressed.

Brutal news about Gore retiring. So Lions lose their top national reciever (by a considerable margin, sorry Marco) and offensive lineman. Throw in Bighill's departure and it's hard to argue this team is better on paper right now than in 2016.

It does, however, justify Wally wanting to change the ratio (and shed salary) too on the offensive line with a solid national like Gore out of the equation. And apparently they want the flexibility of starting 8 nationals but just 2 on defence. That seems like wishing thinking at this point.

It justifies Wally shedding salary Sammy but I don't see how it addresses ratio. We still plan to go with four Nationals on the offensive line, (as we would have in Olifioye was herer not) and one International tackle at right tackle at this point. Whether we would have kept Olifoye and used him as a right tackle or if we go with Antonio Johnson or a different International at right tackle will not change that.

For 2017, it was going to be Steward, Fabian, Husband and Vaillencourt along with an International (Antonio Johnson at this point). Having Facault replace Steward in our lineup or play guard doesn't change that. Having Steward start at left tackle and Facault start at guard doesn't change the ratio.

We already had decided to move Steward to left tackle. Wally went after Gagnon first, a guard. The plan for 2017 was to play four Nationals on the offensive line (which also means 1 International on the offensive line) -- that is what Wally said at the end of last season and he also said just after trading Oifoye.

[OV - 54:40]

Not much respect for the ability of the likes of Adekolu, Blaszko, Shaq Johnson or a draft pick from the good draft position this year (Vandervoort, Behar, Picton) to be able to step-up and hold down a receiver position if Gore is gone ? I guess Wally could just roll with Iannuzzi at his lone "NI receiver" position, but real TC competition might reveal something else ?

[B.C.FAN]

I see this trade as being driven more by ratio than cap considerations. Chris Williams will be a fourth international starting receiver, taking the place of Shawn Gore, and Foucault will allow the Lions to start four nationals on the O-line, whether he is starting himself or merely backing up Hunter Steward initially.

The good news from a Lions perspective is that Williams thinks he'll be ready for training camp. The Lions had not expected him to be ready for the early part of the season and had structured his contract with a big raise in the second year. So with Williams and Jonathon Jennings both due big raises in 2018, Wally will probably have to be busier than ever trimming veterans' salaries next offseason. I'm happy to look forward to the high-powered 2017 offence for now and worry about next year when it comes.

[David]

I see this trade as being driven more by ratio than cap considerations. Chris Williams will be a fourth international starting receiver, taking the place of Shawn Gore, and Foucault will allow the Lions to start four nationals on the O-line, whether he is starting himself or merely backing up Hunter Steward initially.

So it's quite clear now that they're moving Hunter to his more natural tackle position (likely left tacke - I would suspect Foucault will initially back him up at LT or I could see them having him compete as a Guard, giving him every opportunity to start to justify the trade).

The question for me has always been: with Hunter's frame (height, long wing span) and quick feet, shouldn't he have been playing tackle last year? I viewed him as a better option than Antonio Johnson (and not just because of the ratio, although that certainly helped), and light years ahead of the beleaguered Levi Adcock. I believe Wally was deathly afraid of not having a National back-up for him. But do you not worry about that if it should arise? Go to Plan B if and when Hunter goes down, replacing him then with Antonio Johnson and adding a National elsewhere?

Can someone explain this to me, as I am completely baffled why Wally is telling the casual fan - who either takes everything at face value or doesn't has the depth of football knowledge, and media members who won't challenge him - that the Jovan trade allows us to start 4 Nationals across the O-line. New Flash! We could have done it last year. It's just that we'll (presumably) have much better depth with Foucault in 2017, if and when he signs.


DH

[JohnHenry]

I'm not understanding how Mtl could trade Foucault's "rights" to B.C. if he's not under contract?

[Hambone]

I'm not understanding how Mtl could trade Foucault's "rights" to B.C. if he's not under contract?

No different than BC trading Adams' rights to Montreal for a draft pick last year. As a drafted player who subsequently signed in another league Montreal owned his playing rights for 1 calendar year after the year the player left said other league. Since Foucault no longer was property of an NFL team as of last August Montreal owned his CFL rights until Dec 2017 and have traded those rights to BC.

[B.C.FAN]

The question for me has always been: with Hunter's frame (height, long wing span) and quick feet, shouldn't he have been playing tackle last year? I viewed him as a better option than Antonio Johnson (and not just because of the ratio, although that certainly helped), and light years ahead of the beleaguered Levi Adcock. I believe Wally was deathly afraid of not having a National back-up for him. But do you not worry about that if it should arise? Go to Plan B if and when Hunter goes down, replacing him then with Antonio Johnson and adding a National elsewhere?

Can someone explain this to me, as I am completely baffled why Wally is telling the casual fan - who either takes everything at face value or doesn't has the depth of football knowledge, and media members who won't challenge him - that the Jovan trade allows us to start 4 Nationals across the O-line. New Flash! We could have done it last year. It's just that we'll (presumably) have much better depth with Foucault in 2017, if and when he signs.

DH

I don't think Wally was comfortable starting Steward, with his injury history, at tackle without dressing a capable national backup, and neither was I. All of the other Lions nationals last year were strictly guards/centres. Now that Steward has completed his first injury-free season, concerns about his health have eased somewhat but Foucault is the final piece of the puzzle that allows the Lions to comfortably start four nationals.

The move of Olafioye to left tackle last year was precipitated by the high-profile signing of Levy Adcock, a natural right tackle who started in Saskatchewan under Dan Dorazio and was brought in with great fanfare. Antonio Johnson was not in the equation at the start of last season. He was just seen as a rookie backup who got thrust into the starting right tackle position when Adcock took ill. He eventually played well enough to hold the position all year and presumably still be considered a starter (at a much lower salary than Olafioye) heading into this year.

[Qman]

I'm guessing that Foucault gets starters money and gets told to compete in TC for a starting OT or OG. So what happens next is then up to him and his new teammates and how well they do in TC and early regular season.

I am not guessing, I am certain that Foucault after being on an NFL PR and practicing against higher quality players than he played against in college means he is more CFL starter ready than anyone Wally can draft with his 3rd and 7th pick in the 2017 draft. This is IMO the main reason for trading for the rights to Foucault. The question is: Was the price paid (Olafioye) too high?

Good points--I think you have summarized very well Wally's plan of action here.
Losing a known quantity to gamble on an unproven one may be too high a price.

At least Foucault has been healthy. The other big gambles IMO are Waters--he hasn't yet proven he can get back to 2014 form; and Chris Williams--he won't be ready to go for who knows how long.

no way he gets starters money ... that would be more than Jovan was making 200-250 for a CDN left tackle.

He gets more than 80k MTL was offering ... probably $100-120k ... similar to high 1st round pick salary.

The salary arbitrage is one the main reasons for the deal