Lions ownership discussion thread (Topics merged into here)

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David
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SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:18 pm
Bleak picture guys. Let's not forget to give credit to Braley's sidekick Skulsky as well. Helped run the Sun/Province into the ground before turning his attention to the Lions. Season tickets now hovering around 10,000 I imagine.
I don't know the current ST number SammyGreene, but as thrilled as I was to receive 2 individually signed player cards, I don't suspect that in the halcyon days of Bobby Ackles (from 2005 thru 2008 with Dickenson, Printers, Clermont, Murphy et al), there would have been any way possible to individually sign cards for season ticket holders. They would have to have been stamped.


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Qman wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:34 pm

- $7m 2011 grey cup and $10m from 2014 grey cup (massive jump in tix prices -- despite not being a sellout -- is largest gate in canadian history).
-
And my seat in 242 for the 2014 Grey Cup is still the cheapest price I've paid, not to mention best seat location, since the 2011 Grey Cup. And that includes the upcoming Grey Cup in Ottawa.

I see you toned your numbers down for 2011. Earlier this year your auditing of BC's books claimed the Lions profited $11M in 2011 and $10M in 2014. I was having a hard time figuring out how BC made $11M in 2011 on 29725 average attendance when the Eskimos' profit in their 2010 Grey Cup year was only around $4.5M on average attendance of 35025. That $4.5M profit would include a minimum of $1.5M in concession and game day profits the Esks earn annually, something the Lions don't see.
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Seems like the cycle is now complete. Dwindling interest and lack of interest, back to the days when Braley took over.
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SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:18 pm
Season tickets now hovering around 10,000 I imagine.
Less.

Much less.

It's a shame because this is an entertaining team with a good ad campaign out there.
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David
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Braley is in no hurry to sell and my guess is he will wait until at least the end of the 2017 campaign in hopes of a BC Lions Grey Cup.

Good ad campaign Jim? Not sure if you were being serious, ironic, or facetious. Several (including me) have posted in the 2017 Marketing thread that it's beyond brutal. An insult to the players. The Solly radio ad, "is he an Achilles tendon waiting to explode?" just might be a new franchise low point.

To each his own I guess.


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Qman wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:34 pm
The move into renovated BC Place really hid the problems that the Lions had marketing/business wise ever since bob died. The crowds were small at tempire. Lifting all the blackouts really started to impact numbers. As people outside Vancouver/Burnaby stopped coming to games due to traffic, etc. When they moved into BC Place again their SSH number went to 26000, and all the marketing people thought they were doing a great job.

On the sale of the club, Braley has already made alot of money off the move into BC Place.
- $7m 2011 grey cup and $10m from 2014 grey cup (massive jump in tix prices -- despite not being a sellout -- is largest gate in canadian history).
- Plus over $2M per year on regular season in first two season in BC place due to large crowds and big increase in ticket prices in premium sections.

Thats not replicatable.

Still, even with poor ticket numbers last year they only lost $300k .. which is basically breakeven on a $20M revenue operation. But the days off $2m+ profits are gone.

Only growth area for the club is trying to get a bigger TV $$$ out of TSN. right now the league gets $40-$45M a year. I note that TSN recently paid $30M to senators for 60ish games that do around 100k per game. CFL games do 600k+ for 84 games plus Grey cup game. Ordinarily that would result in a big increase for the league. But you have huge grey cloud over the entire cable tv industry with changing technology.
Its a tough situation QMan. In the past, our Leos would have gotten a kick-up in attendance with a winning or exciting team. That happened in 2004, when Casey Printers took over as our starter and his exciting style of play brought new fans, including young fans into the building, But even with an exciting quarterback like Jonathan Jennings and a vertical offence in which we led the CFL last season in big plays over 30 yards, we didn't draw the crowds.

Obviously the loss of Bobby Ackles had a huge impact. No question that our Leos marketing/business side suffered since that time. David Skulsky has taken most of the heat but it goes much deeper than that.

Certainly, Braley and Buono didn't view Skulsky as the problem.
“Dennis has been among the most accomplished executives in the history of the CFL,” said team owner David Braley. “He has led the Lions with incredible enthusiasm and expertise and I am very proud to have had him part of this great franchise since his days as a founding member of the Waterboys in 2003, in addition to his time as president. He is a tremendous leader and a dear friend". David Braley
“As a coach and a GM, I could not have asked for a better working partner than Dennis Skulsky,” said Wally Buono. “We have shared a common focus and goal of winning championships for our fans and I will miss his unequaled passion and support of our efforts to build great teams.”
Braley and Buono believed that Buono's return to the sidelines would result in a winning team and translate into larger crowds, with the hope of the team being sold at a higher price. It hasn't happened,

When the Lions closed Level 4 to create a more intimate atmosphere at home games in 2015, fewer fans showed up. When rookie Jonathon Jennings dazzled in relief of Travis Lulay, throwing four touchdown passes and catching another in a 46-20 win over the Saskatchewan Roughriders in his home starting debut, the focus was Buono. leaving the retractable roof closed on what was a very pleasant autumn Saturday.

There have been a plethora of reasons argued why Leos attendance is so low from competition for the sports dollar, the emergence of the Seattle Seahawks as a winner, an aging demographic, younger fans preferring the NFL, the Whitecaps, lifting of blackouts outside of Metro Vancouver, big screen televisions and a better quality television broadcasts, less leisure dollars, the cost of parking/beer, etc., David Skulsky, poor marketing stragegy, and the list goes on,

While all have been factors, the biggest factor, in my opinion, was the cheapness of David Braley, in terms of marketing. Braley has been notoriously cheap in this area in both Toronto and Vancouver.

Braley didn't become a CFL owner to save the CFL or the Argos or the Lions for that matter. Starting off with secret loans in Hamilton and Toronto, he purchased two CFL franchises dirt cheap with the hope of making money on their future sale. If he made an annual profit that was a good thing but he could also write off annual losses while waiting for the franchises to become more valuable. He also made big dollars hosting Grey Cups. Braley became a household name in Canadian sports and the most powerful man in the CFL. He basically ran the roost for years as the owner of two of the eight CFL franchises that were located in two of its three major cities.

The Lions pay no rent on the first $9 million in net ticket sales, according to their contract with the BC Pavilion Corp. They bring in approximately $4 million a year from the league’s TSN/RDS broadcast deal, which was extended through 2021. The league-imposed salary cap in 2015 was $5.05 million.

The cheapness of Braley, in terms of marketing, who had mostly relied on the skill and dedication of Bobby Ackles and a winning team, slowly and agonizingly took effect, as other factors also played their roles. Our Leos didn't market to younger fans nor did we market to females or families. There was no family firiendly ticket pricing nor was there any serious attempts to market our Leos as a social event as well as a sporting event.

It was an illusion that all we needed was the return of Buono to the sidelines and an exciting young quarterback and a winning team was all that was needed to get bums back in the seats and the value and price of our Leos franchise rocketing up the charts.

There is always a point of no return. Our Leos may have reached that point, where even spending a lot of dollars on marketing and also developing a great marketing strategy may not draw the fans back. Just like neglecting a girlfriend until she says goodbye, one can't always get her back after, no matter how hard one tries. :)

The dum things have also hurt, from Buono not opening up the dome on an stunning autumn day to our Leos closing the upper bowl to mitigate the unappealing look of empty stadium seats.and lend a more intimate feel but increasing the price of cheaper seats inside the stadium, which hurt sales. Our Leos could also throw away a million dollars on a cheap guaranteed win stunt but chintz our on hiring more people for the marketing department and utilize proven marketing strategies.

That our Leos can't draw huge home crowds with a young dynamic exciting quarterback lke Jonathan Jennings or a thrilling player like Chris Rainey or with the Manny Show says it all.

In 2010, the year our Leos played at decrepit Empire Field, with a less than exciting team we still averaged over 24,000 fans per game. We averaged more than 34,000 per game in 2008. Heck, we averaged over 20,000 fans per game in 1998, Braley's second season as our owner and it was a miserable season.

Our Leos lost one fan after another and now only the die hards remain loyal. Loyalty has to be earned and is easily lost.

We had the second worst attendance record in the CFL last year, and we were well below the league average while having the second best record in the CFL. Toronto, at least, had more legitimate reasons for its poor attendance last season than our Leos did.

For a time Braley was viewed as a savior in Toronto and Vancouver. Perhaps he was for a time. He sold the Argos for a profit but it was a franchise in tatters. Braley will also walk away from our Leos with a profit but not the profit he anticipated. When he does, he will have walked away from both franchises, while leaving them in a sorry state, fan wise.

What makes me sad, being such a long time Leos supporter, is that this Leos team of players really deserves being watched by huge crowds. I'm looking forward to watching them play as much, if not more, than any Leos team ever.
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SammyGreene
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Jim Mullin wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:18 pm
SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:18 pm
Season tickets now hovering around 10,000 I imagine.
Less.

Much less.

It's a shame because this is an entertaining team with a good ad campaign out there.
Scary. I better brace myself for what the regular season opener attendance is going to look like. 15,000?

As The LionKing appropriately states the cycle back to the pre-Ackles days is now complete. And to make matters worse the biggest off field name that provides the most credibility to the franchise sails off into the sunset at season's end.

Great read Blitz. As good as your on field assessments. As you pointed out, fans should have started flocking back to BC Place last season with an exciting young QB and dynamic offence like they did with Printers in 2004. But they didn't. Poor decisions by ownership and beyond, coupled with a ever-changing Metro Vancouver demographic and other factors (Seahawks bandwagon for one), haven taken its toll.

The Whitecaps sure know what they are up against despite spending far more money on marketing and especially staff. Years later, they are in no hurry to increase their typical capacity beyond 22,000 in a 55,000 seat stadium and are fighting like heck to maintain that in this very fickle and often disinterested market at least when it comes to purchasing tickets to support local teams.

I don't see any easy fix. Lions thought they had one with Jennings and Wally back on the sidelines. The potential new owners have an uphill battle as Jim points out. Like Blitz suggests, they could do everything right with an entertaining product and it still might not work.

Toronto and Vancouver officially the league trouble spots. When have I seen that before?
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I'm probably going to be in the minority here but I think Wally might have had some contribution to the problem as well. He isn't the most cordial of personalities as far as football is concerned. He plays things close to the vest, is often cagey in his conversations and generally doesn't seem to care that much for the process of engaging with the public. And let's be truthful, the longer things stay the same, the more stale they become. Nothing new here is the thought that comes to mind when I think about the BC Lions.

It is the same old process with the same feelings about a mixed outcome. While we have won more than we have lost with Wally, you can't help but feel that somehow this franchise reached it's best before date some time ago. The only real reason we see Wally back behind the bench now is because his heir apparent and his heir apparent both became unmitigated failures. What's more, do we really have any idea or reason to be excited about who is coming after he does hang things up? Do we even know if there is a plan?

We squandered possible opportunities to get other talented persons because of Wally is used to doing things his way and his way is law. It has come with its successes but also it share of failures too. Watch something long enough and it becomes old. I use myself as an example. I have watched this game my whole life. Followed this team since the days of Larry Key, Jerry Tagge, Vince Rapp. I watched them at Empire, then BC Place, then Tempire, then back to BC Place. I used to have season's tickets (for years), now I can't really see myself getting them again.

Nobody I know outside of this forum cares about or talks Lions football. Those that used to enjoy with me have either lost interest or died. There are no young people wearing Lions gear. I see lots of NYY or Bluejays or NFL gear being sported by people who have never even been to the host city let alone a game, but wear the gear of your home CFL team?? Most sports stores around don't even carry it or if they do it is often some small sampling, a named jersey or maybe a T-shirt or two.

This game in this city is endangered. Only in markets where the choices are fewer and life in general is less costly, does it seem to be thriving. This city does not embrace this team. I don't know whether it is about cost, convenience, cultural diversity or because of management. I suspect all of the above in some part. A new owner, new management, a smaller less diverted community, winning ways, Grey Cups... Seems like a very big shopping list.
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Hambone wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:24 pm
Qman wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:34 pm

- $7m 2011 grey cup and $10m from 2014 grey cup (massive jump in tix prices -- despite not being a sellout -- is largest gate in canadian history).
-
And my seat in 242 for the 2014 Grey Cup is still the cheapest price I've paid, not to mention best seat location, since the 2011 Grey Cup. And that includes the upcoming Grey Cup in Ottawa.

I see you toned your numbers down for 2011. Earlier this year your auditing of BC's books claimed the Lions profited $11M in 2011 and $10M in 2014. I was having a hard time figuring out how BC made $11M in 2011 on 29725 average attendance when the Eskimos' profit in their 2010 Grey Cup year was only around $4.5M on average attendance of 35025. That $4.5M profit would include a minimum of $1.5M in concession and game day profits the Esks earn annually, something the Lions don't see.
no i didn't, thats just grey cup profits. you have to include the lions profit from that season to get to $10m in 2011 and $11m in 2014. remember 2011 they had 40k avg including the playoff game when they moved into BC place and bump in single game ticket prices.

Argos made over $10M off 2012 grey cup. Riders made $9.3M off 2013 GC.
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SammyGreene wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:09 am
Jim Mullin wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:18 pm
SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:18 pm
Season tickets now hovering around 10,000 I imagine.
Less.

Much less.

It's a shame because this is an entertaining team with a good ad campaign out there.
Scary. I better brace myself for what the regular season opener attendance is going to look like. 15,000?

As The LionKing appropriately states the cycle back to the pre-Ackles days is now complete. And to make matters worse the biggest off field name that provides the most credibility to the franchise sails off into the sunset at season's end.

Great read Blitz. As good as your on field assessments. As you pointed out, fans should have started flocking back to BC Place last season with an exciting young QB and dynamic offence like they did with Printers in 2004. But they didn't. Poor decisions by ownership and beyond, coupled with a ever-changing Metro Vancouver demographic and other factors (Seahawks bandwagon for one), haven taken its toll.

The Whitecaps sure know what they are up against despite spending far more money on marketing and especially staff. Years later, they are in no hurry to increase their typical capacity beyond 22,000 in a 55,000 seat stadium and are fighting like heck to maintain that in this very fickle and often disinterested market at least when it comes to purchasing tickets to support local teams.

I don't see any easy fix. Lions thought they had one with Jennings and Wally back on the sidelines. The potential new owners have an uphill battle as Jim points out. Like Blitz suggests, they could do everything right with an entertaining product and it still might not work.

Toronto and Vancouver officially the league trouble spots. When have I seen that before?
.
Last edited by Qman on Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Qman wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:20 pm
SammyGreene wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:09 am
Jim Mullin wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:18 pm


Less.

Much less.

It's a shame because this is an entertaining team with a good ad campaign out there.
Scary. I better brace myself for what the regular season opener attendance is going to look like. 15,000?

As The LionKing appropriately states the cycle back to the pre-Ackles days is now complete. And to make matters worse the biggest off field name that provides the most credibility to the franchise sails off into the sunset at season's end.

Great read Blitz. As good as your on field assessments. As you pointed out, fans should have started flocking back to BC Place last season with an exciting young QB and dynamic offence like they did with Printers in 2004. But they didn't. Poor decisions by ownership and beyond, coupled with a ever-changing Metro Vancouver demographic and other factors (Seahawks bandwagon for one), haven taken its toll.

The Whitecaps sure know what they are up against despite spending far more money on marketing and especially staff. Years later, they are in no hurry to increase their typical capacity beyond 22,000 in a 55,000 seat stadium and are fighting like heck to maintain that in this very fickle and often disinterested market at least when it comes to purchasing tickets to support local teams.

I don't see any easy fix. Lions thought they had one with Jennings and Wally back on the sidelines. The potential new owners have an uphill battle as Jim points out. Like Blitz suggests, they could do everything right with an entertaining product and it still might not work.

Toronto and Vancouver officially the league trouble spots. When have I seen that before?
doubt its that low. judging from the ticketmaster seat maps, sections look a bit fuller this season. I was quite surprised the free tickets for the preseason game had alot less available that last year and i was on ticketmaster right after the email went out.

I would say season tickets are higher this year, but not significantly.

Whitecaps had a dip in season ticket this year ... although its a bit different. SSH have to make there decision in August 15th each year and forfeit all $ if they decide to leave after that because virtually everyone is on 12month plans.

I expect the canucks to be down big time in september. Why pay presidents trophy prices for a 29th place team. plus prices are half on stubhub for most games.




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Judging by the Ticketmaster map it's a near sellout. I don't believe it.
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caseymania in 2004+ etc, was not just about an exciting player or group of players. people always seem to forget this:

it was about an NHL lockout, alongside a bona fide QB controversy with an already proven star in dickenson and resulting media frenzy, the excitement and newness of wally ball and ackles in bc after some relatively boring years of damen allen, adam rita etc, and star receivers like geroy and clermont that seemed to market themselves with a stunning level of play. they weren't just fast or had good hands. geroy was smooth as ice and clermont would literally just knock dudes over on the way downfield with the ball (and they were both amazing with fans and the community). that team went on crazy winning streaks, set records. it didn't just have talented players. it had star power. and a healthy contingent of character vets like carl kidd who fans loved and left on good terms and weren't kicked out the door like a bag of trash by wally.

tickets were still affordable and the closed upper bowl created pent up demand, which was leveraged wisely to generate huge crowds when it got opened up. i would say that ackles made some good moves around managing and marketing that side of things in the first couple years, but overall, the opportunity was mostly squandered with out of line ticket increases, lack of marketing as has been pointed out time and again, a belief that the temporary hype that momentarily brought the crowds back would somehow sustain itself, the product would sell itself, etc. ackles is not a sacred cow to me. the crowds grew but they should've been bigger and stayed bigger. was he better than skulsky, no question. but was he a genius marketer of the team, did he make the most of the opportunities presented by the hype of 2004 and the years immediately following, creating the next generation of fans to sustain the team, creating an innovative culture on the business side that extended beyond his personal brand... not in my opinion. i just don't see it. what is the legacy of the corporate geniuses of the waterboys? as far as i can tell they were more interested in creating an old boys network around the team and selling suites and ads than creating engaging fan experiences and filling the stands.

the cheapness and intransigence of braley is now well documented and i'll add my voice to the chorus calling for him to get a move on already. you've done your thing now let it go. the fruit is rotting on the vine.

just my :2cents:
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SammyGreene wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:09 am
Jim Mullin wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:18 pm
SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:18 pm
Season tickets now hovering around 10,000 I imagine.
Less.

Much less.

It's a shame because this is an entertaining team with a good ad campaign out there.
Scary. I better brace myself for what the regular season opener attendance is going to look like. 15,000?

As The LionKing appropriately states the cycle back to the pre-Ackles days is now complete. And to make matters worse the biggest off field name that provides the most credibility to the franchise sails off into the sunset at season's end.

Great read Blitz. As good as your on field assessments. As you pointed out, fans should have started flocking back to BC Place last season with an exciting young QB and dynamic offence like they did with Printers in 2004. But they didn't. Poor decisions by ownership and beyond, coupled with a ever-changing Metro Vancouver demographic and other factors (Seahawks bandwagon for one), haven taken its toll.

The Whitecaps sure know what they are up against despite spending far more money on marketing and especially staff. Years later, they are in no hurry to increase their typical capacity beyond 22,000 in a 55,000 seat stadium and are fighting like heck to maintain that in this very fickle and often disinterested market at least when it comes to purchasing tickets to support local teams.

I don't see any easy fix. Lions thought they had one with Jennings and Wally back on the sidelines. The potential new owners have an uphill battle as Jim points out. Like Blitz suggests, they could do everything right with an entertaining product and it still might not work.

Toronto and Vancouver officially the league trouble spots. When have I seen that before?
Its a complex dilemma, though I still believe the most important factor was both our lack of spending on marketing plus poor marketing strategies.

Wally Buono was mentioned as a factor. Its an interesting topic. From the press/media vantage point in B.C. , the press and media generally view Buono as being a tremendous positive in terms of the fan base.

I'm not so sure. On the one hand, since 2003, we've had a lot of good regular seasons and the most consistent time period, in terms of winning that our Leos franchise has experienced, while 'under' Buono.

At the same time, our playoff record has not matched our regular season success and we lost a number of playoff games where we were favored. Our style of play has also not helped at times either. Even though we have enjoyed watching very exciting and talented players, we've also had too many seasons of passive defence and predictable offence.

The excitement meter went up with the emergence of Casey Printers in 2004, the play of Travis Lulay and Andrew Harris in 2011, and Jonathan Jennings incredible arm in 2016. Of course there were other star players from Geroy Simon to Sol E. that fans came out to see.

But overall, while we have mostly been a successful team during regular season play, with Buono, we have often not been an exciting team to watch and our Leos brain trust did not do much to create a 'fan experience' at games. Lions half time shows are usually deadly and cheap. Like how many times would an average fan get excited about watching a high school band perform?

We won a Grey Cup in 2011, with a great comeback season and there was opportunity to create some momentum again, after three less than stellar seasons before. The 2012 season started off great with Benevedes but a brutal and disappointing playoff loss led to three more seasons of disappointment.

Buono had years to develop and determine his successor and his choice of Benevedes turned out to be a bad one. Hiring Tedford also turned out poorly, as Tedford seemed to be out of his comfort zone. Buono's overcontrolling of both coaches certainly didn't help.

I also wonder if a complete change of this regime might help turn things around. It could. Perhaps an ownership change and a general manager change, along with a fresh new HC, not 'owing' his job to Buono would be invigorating. Or it also could lead to even poorer results and the fan base declining even more

Anyway, Buono will play a big role in the succession plan and that succession plan will very likely see Mark Washington as HC and Buono's sycophants in place when he leaves, so they can comment most favorably about Wally's tenure.

The status quo does not seem to be the answer. We could win it all this season and it likely won't make much of a difference in terms of fans. Jonathan Jennings, the Manny Show, Chris Rainey, Chris Williams, Sol E. are exciting, very talented players but it won't make much of a difference, fan wise and that is a such a shame because this is a very talented Lions squad - one of our best ever, in terms of on-field player talent.

But I also understand that there is a 'same old' sense about our Leos. I have two friends who were really dedicated Lions fans for a long time. But they don't bother anymore. When I get excited about another upcoming Lions season, they both say to me...."It will be the same story - the Leos will tempt you with some regular season success and some exciting players to watch but it will all end up with a disappointing playoff loss, with good odds that it will likely a blowout.

I know that they have been disappointed too many times in the playoffs in the Buono era and have a viewpoint that many of those losses looked like we were badly outcoached and that our team played very flat, when it shouldn't have. Their comments reflect that they don't they see Buono in a very positive light and are tired of his ways of operating. I don't know if they reflect the majority of fans who have stopped going to games or are just a minority viewpoint but they used to be very dedicated Leo fans and now they don't care.

They say they respect that I'm still a die hard Leo fan but they give me feedback, that for them, its always going to be the 'Buono way' and that nothing changes except the players - that its the same old script, same old lines, same old ways of doing things, same old marketing, same old B.S. and they are tired of it and not interested anymore.

There doesn't seem to be a 'connection' between Buono and most fans. I have some buddies who are Seahawk fans and they have never met Pete Caroll but they 'connect' with him.

In Pittsburg, Mike Tomlin is having a Live Fan Forum on June 14th.

Its advertised as such:
Want to know how the team is looking as training camp approaches? Want to know what the expectations are for this group in 2017? Members can get these questions and more answered as Head Coach Mike Tomlin sits down to connect with Steelers fans all around the world tomorrow afternoon.

On Wednesday, June 14, Steelers fans are receiving an exclusive opportunity to talk with Coach Tomlin in a live fan forum event at 4:15pm
Somehow, if we are ever going to get this shipped turned around, our Leos are going to have to create a connection between the team and the fans that is now mostly gone, except for us die hards.

It used to be there between our Lions and fans. Its been lost and its been lost during our most successful era.

One thing I have learned powerfully in this life is that how one makes people feel is so much more important than most or even all other factors. How a teacher makes a student feel is often the most important factor in student motivation. How one makes a friend or colleague feel is a powerful factor in a thriving work or social relationship. How one makes an employee feel is a very powerful factor in building a sense of teamwork and a commitment towards common goals.

Bobby Ackles understood this concept very well. He built back the fan base, not just by good decision making, but by making connections in this province. Bobby Ackles is highly thought of on this site, not only due to his football savvy but also by a powerful sense that he cared about Leo fans.

He also connected with the business community and with Leos alumni. He had an extensive network of contacts in pro football and most importantly, he connected with fans.

Braley, as an absentee owner and Buono as a GM and HC have never really been able to do that. Buono also struggled to do that in Calgary. Yes, our Leos have programs to get players out into the community but those are old strategies that our Leos have been doing since the 1960's.

Buono creates a sense that fan connection is obligatory at best. He blames players to the media when things don't go well. His own comment about how its difficult to replace a 'legend' like himself' is an example of the sense I often hear that its much more about Wally than anything or everything else.

And unfortunately Braley, Skulsky, Buono and Co. have created an impression that the only reason they care about fans is when they want their ticket money.

Of course there is much more to the declining fan base in B.C. than this lack of connection. But it seems to be a theme that underlies a lot of things, when it comes to the declining Lions fan base. Its more of an underlying feeling, a sense of things, an intuitive notion that this is Wally's team and not the players team or the fans team too...that its Wally's 'show'. Rather than everyone feeling a part of it, we are only there to pay for it, while our major role is to admire Buono.

I know that there are a few Lionbackers think I am too tough on Buono and perhaps I am. But there are also others who give him too much of a free pass. Buono did a good job last season, overall, as HC and he has done an excellent job this off-season in brining in some excellent talent to compliment last year's squad. There is enough talent on this team to win the Grey Cup, as there was last season. Buono had our Leos playing hard last year and will this season too. The team is cohesive and supportive of each other and want to play for each other.

But the sense that I got was that fans were cheering for the B.C. Lions as a total identity when Ackles was here. Now the overwhelming identity is that its solely Buono's team rather than the B.C. Lions. It may be subtle at times but its a powerful difference.

We often see it in Buono's hiring decisions. We see it in media access, where Buono is usually the only coach or staff interviewed and quoted. The press and media are complicit. The B.C. Lions are Wally Buono, rather than Buono is the GM/Coach of the B.C. Lions.

This is supposed to be our team but it doesn't feel that way anymore.

One positive that could happen for this season, would be for the press and media to interview and quote from more players, more assistant coaches, and other L|ons staff like Chayka and McEvoy, and even more importantly, to get comments from fans and focus less on Buono.

It might create more of sense that the B.C. Lions are B.C.'s team and Vancouver's team, that this is a 'collective' of players and coaches and staff and fans and not just about Wally.

Good things start somewhere. It would be a good place to start, in terms of attempting to rebuild the fan base. Its where Bobby Ackles started when he came back to our Leos - it was about the fans and not Bobby.... and good things happened after that.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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David
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Sir Purrcival wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:23 am
I'm probably going to be in the minority here but I think Wally might have had some contribution to the problem as well. He isn't the most cordial of personalities as far as football is concerned. He plays things close to the vest, is often cagey in his conversations and generally doesn't seem to care that much for the process of engaging with the public. And let's be truthful, the longer things stay the same, the more stale they become. Nothing new here is the thought that comes to mind when I think about the BC Lions.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you SP. Wally is nothing else if not stubborn and superstitious (watch, the sun is shining this morning...beautiful game day today but the roof WILL be closed. I can almost guarantee). However, I believe he does a very good job interacting with fans. He has that 'Godfather' respect in the community, and is a very recognizable face of the franchise. He is a regular guest of Sekeres and Price in TSN1040 and is always 'selling' the club. IMO, he is the least of our off-the-field worries.


DH :cool:
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