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DanoT
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Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:40 am

I don't want to sound like an apologist for Pezim, but the Stamps owner did renege on the huge money contract used to lure Flutie from B.C. And then subsequently the Argos paid more to Flutie than was sustainable.

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Hambone
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Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:22 pm

DanoT wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:40 am
I don't want to sound like an apologist for Pezim, but the Stamps owner did renege on the huge money contract used to lure Flutie from B.C. And then subsequently the Argos paid more to Flutie than was sustainable.
It's interesting though. I think Calgary's acquisition of Flutie was strictly for football purposes. If Ryckman wanted to make the move for improved gate then it didn't really pay off. While BC's attendance nose-dived like a Kamikaze dive bomber on a suicide mission post-Flutie the Stampeder attendance rise was very modest going from an average of 24307 in 1991 to 25440 in Flutie's first year. The potential to increase was probably not that great as they were already a pretty good club going 11-7 the year before Flutie. Did Flutie's Calgary contract not also include a big "personal services" portion? If so Pezim likely would've needed to go down that path to match. Given he wound up declaring bankruptcy Flutie likely would've gotten the shaft there too.

No doubt there never would've been a dull moment under Murray. He liked to be outrageous and play the showman and huckster. I referenced the team heading down the F-Troop path but the more I think about it the more I think a fairer ownership comparison would be to the Gliebermans or perhaps legendary St.Louis Browns and Chicago White Sox owner Bill Veeck. A lot of the things they tried would've been right up The Pez's alley. I'm thinking the Gliebermans Mardi Gras beads, Veeck's Disco Demolition Night or signing 3'7" Eddie Gaedel to pinch hit for the Browns one game.

I'm trying to figure out when exactly Pezim bought the club. I can't remember if it was before the 89 season or part way in. Regardless there was quite the number of changes and cast of characters in charge through he 2+ years. Some stability was finally reached at about the halfway point of Pezim's tenure when Obie was put in place.

HCs:
Larry Donovan (incumbent) fired Aug 6, 1989
Joe Galat - Aug 7, 1989 to Nov 29, 1989 (seasons end)
Lary Kuharich - Nov 29, 1989 to Sept 7, 1990
Jim Young (interim) - Sept 7, 1990 to Sept 14, 1990
Bob O'Billovich - Sept 14, 1990 to Nov 13, 1992

GMs:
Joe Galat (incumbent) - released at end of 1989 season.
Joe Kapp - fired 11 games into 1990 season
Bob O'Billovich - Sept 14, 1990 to Nov 13, 1992
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Toppy Vann
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Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:49 pm

Hambone wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:22 pm
DanoT wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:40 am
I don't want to sound like an apologist for Pezim, but the Stamps owner did renege on the huge money contract used to lure Flutie from B.C. And then subsequently the Argos paid more to Flutie than was sustainable.
It's interesting though. I think Calgary's acquisition of Flutie was strictly for football purposes. If Ryckman wanted to make the move for improved gate then it didn't really pay off. While BC's attendance nose-dived like a Kamikaze dive bomber on a suicide mission post-Flutie the Stampeder attendance rise was very modest going from an average of 24307 in 1991 to 25440 in Flutie's first year. The potential to increase was probably not that great as they were already a pretty good club going 11-7 the year before Flutie. Did Flutie's Calgary contract not also include a big "personal services" portion? If so Pezim likely would've needed to go down that path to match. Given he wound up declaring bankruptcy Flutie likely would've gotten the shaft there too.

No doubt there never would've been a dull moment under Murray. He liked to be outrageous and play the showman and huckster. I referenced the team heading down the F-Troop path but the more I think about it the more I think a fairer ownership comparison would be to the Gliebermans or perhaps legendary St.Louis Browns and Chicago White Sox owner Bill Veeck. A lot of the things they tried would've been right up The Pez's alley. I'm thinking the Gliebermans Mardi Gras beads, Veeck's Disco Demolition Night or signing 3'7" Eddie Gaedel to pinch hit for the Browns one game.

I'm trying to figure out when exactly Pezim bought the club. I can't remember if it was before the 89 season or part way in. Regardless there was quite the number of changes and cast of characters in charge through he 2+ years. Some stability was finally reached at about the halfway point of Pezim's tenure when Obie was put in place.

HCs:
Larry Donovan (incumbent) fired Aug 6, 1989
Joe Galat - Aug 7, 1989 to Nov 29, 1989 (seasons end)
Lary Kuharich - Nov 29, 1989 to Sept 7, 1990
Jim Young (interim) - Sept 7, 1990 to Sept 14, 1990
Bob O'Billovich - Sept 14, 1990 to Nov 13, 1992

GMs:
Joe Galat (incumbent) - released at end of 1989 season.
Joe Kapp - fired 11 games into 1990 season
Bob O'Billovich - Sept 14, 1990 to Nov 13, 1992
Thanks for the memories. Not all of that was good though lol

A thread on best owner was here -

http://lionbackers.com/bc_lions/viewtop ... f=2&t=5673


For those around during those times it's a grim reminder how a change in owner is not always a good thing. Galat fired Matthews as you noted about the 15th game (IIRC) and practically drove Lui P out of the team and the CFL. Kapp was no President and GM as he had only some coaching experience.

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WestCoastJoe
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:04 pm

http://theprovince.com/sports/football/ ... agnant-den

From the article by Ed Willes ...
Braley, as it happens, had an opportunity to sell the Lions to a local group this year. Despite his assertions there were three entities interested in buying the Leos, it came down to a consortium connected to The Waterboys who made an offer in the $15 million range.

That offer was rejected, but here’s the point: the Lions are losing value with each day, week and month Braley owns the team. Potential buyers can see the state of the franchise. They also know it will require work and investment to bring it back. This doesn’t exactly enhance the asking price.

Braley has also demonstrated he’s unwilling or unable to put in that work or make that investment. That leaves the Lions heading into another season with the same ownership, the same faces and the unrealistic hope that, somehow, things will be better.
One offer. From the Waterboys group. $15 million dollars. Offer rejected.

Take the money and run. Gheezus.

It seems the offer was made even with the lawsuits hanging over the league. This makes it seem that Braley using the lawsuits as his reason for not selling is bogus.

It seems clear that, in his heart, Braley does not want to sell. He has not reached the point when, getting past whatever emotional or sentimental reasons he no doubt has, he can sell.

And Braley keeps Wally Buono in this horribly unsettled situation also, putting very tough decisions before Wally.

And there we stand.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

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David
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:20 am

Ed Willes and Farhan Lalji both reporting that it looks like Wally will return as both GM and coach in 2017.

Note, this is not official. Just speculation.

Wally to get back surgery in the off-season. Poor guy. I can tell he is choked by this whole process. Had to bite his tongue at the end of the season, but just listening to him, I can tell he is not happy with the way Braley has handled things with the football club.


DH :cool:
Please sell the team, Mr. Braley.

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SammyGreene
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:44 am

David wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:20 am
Ed Willes and Farhan Lalji both reporting that it looks like Wally will return as both GM and coach in 2017.

Note, this is not official. Just speculation.

Wally to get back surgery in the off-season. Poor guy. I can tell he is choked by this whole process. Had to bite his tongue at the end of the season, but just listening to him, I can tell he is not happy with the way Braley has handled things with the football club.


DH :cool:
Probably not in his character to leave Braley high and dry but if he was under the impression the team was going to be sold then no one would blame him for sticking to terms of the contract and serving as an advisor now.
At some point he needs to move onto the next chapter of his life and his 68th birthday should be that.
The thing is it’s not a quick fix here. Best case scenario is Jennings rediscovers his 2016 form but that team was still significantly behind the Stamps as the WF that year showed.
Esks and Riders also much better since then.
Too many players look ordinary in a defence that has had the same coordinator for a long time. Is Jones the guy to get Jennings career back on track?
What’s in store for the ever changing and underwhelming o-line under Dorazio?

And sadly the on field questions are of much less concern than what is happening (or not) off of it.

TheLionKing
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:36 pm

David wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:20 am
Ed Willes and Farhan Lalji both reporting that it looks like Wally will return as both GM and coach in 2017.
Now there is a surprise ! :shock:

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WestCoastJoe
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:21 pm

David wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:20 am
Ed Willes and Farhan Lalji both reporting that it looks like Wally will return as both GM and coach in 2017.

Note, this is not official. Just speculation.

Wally to get back surgery in the off-season. Poor guy. I can tell he is choked by this whole process. Had to bite his tongue at the end of the season, but just listening to him, I can tell he is not happy with the way Braley has handled things with the football club.


DH :cool:
Wally will no doubt continue his loyalty to Braley, honouring that lifetime, unwritten contract the two men seem to have.

Braley will continue dithering on whether he will sell the team before he turns 80.

With Wally staying on, he will give full service, keeping all of his hats, including GM and HC. That means he retains his staff, with possibly a tweak or two.

At this time, it is hard to see it any other way. (My hunch.)

Wally cannot be looking forward to the press conference. How can he sell this lemon to a doubting public? But he is a survivor, and he has his faith to keep him going.

Can the team do well?

Based on the talent we have at most positions, I would say yes, except that we will no doubt stay with the same philosophy. Relatively simple schemes and game planning, focusing on hopefully superior execution. Our offence, defence and special teams will continue to face teams fully prepped on our carved in stone, unsophisticated, conservative, formula, drawing by the numbers, blueprints.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

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David
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Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:55 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:21 pm
Based on the talent we have at most positions, I would say yes, except that we will no doubt stay with the same philosophy. Relatively simple schemes and game planning, focusing on hopefully superior execution. Our offence, defence and special teams will continue to face teams fully prepped on our carved in stone, unsophisticated, conservative, formula, drawing by the numbers, blueprints.
Two years ago, when Wally heard that all the teams were getting new tablets for game planning he said, "That's fine, but our slab of stone works just fine, thank you." :wink:


DH :cool:
Please sell the team, Mr. Braley.

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WestCoastJoe
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Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:34 pm

David wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:55 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:21 pm
Based on the talent we have at most positions, I would say yes, except that we will no doubt stay with the same philosophy. Relatively simple schemes and game planning, focusing on hopefully superior execution. Our offence, defence and special teams will continue to face teams fully prepped on our carved in stone, unsophisticated, conservative, formula, drawing by the numbers, blueprints.
Two years ago, when Wally heard that all the teams were getting new tablets for game planning he said, "That's fine, but our slab of stone works just fine, thank you." :wink:


DH :cool:
"carved in stone" Hmmm ... those stone tablets sound kind of like commandments. I suppose there are 10 of them. "Thou shalt ... execute." "Thou shalt not fumble." :wink:

Or ... carving in stone on a very big scale makes me think of Mount Rushmore. For the CFL, for sure we would see Wally Buono and Don Matthews there. Jackie Parker also. And maybe Doug Flutie. The 4 dominant all-time CFL personalities all have the B.C. Lions on their resumes. :thup:
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

TheLionKing
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Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:32 pm

Problem with slabs of stone is that you can't make changes. Plays carved in stone, execute, execute, execute the play

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WestCoastJoe
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Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:48 am

Braley is really hanging Wally out. Wally can hardly say no and retire, in view of the loyalty that has gone both ways for 15 years. How can you say no to a very successful multi-millionaire who says you have a lifetime contract, if you want it?

And Wally knows Braley would no doubt feel he has been abandoned, possibly even betrayed, if Wally gave up the GM and HC roles, leaving Braley seemingly in the lurch.

But it seems to me that if Wally appointed Neil McAvoy as GM, it could work out. Both of the seniors could ease up their work loads. The fans might have some hopes. But McAvoy would need independence and true authority, as in choosing his own Head Coach.

Ain't gonna happen, methinks. I expect Wally to announce very soon that he will carry on wearing all of his hats, and keep it largely status quo with his coaches for 2018. And then 2019? It seems the dilemma just gets pushed forward.

The other possibilty is for Wally to appoint Mark Washington as Head Coach. Does not much success as a DC translate into a good Head Coach?
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

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CardiacKid
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Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:45 am

An appreciable chunk of the Argos faithful that I spoke with over the length of the Grey Cup festival, would generally start up the conversation with words to the effect "sorry you are saddled with Braley but not that sorry...."

:sigh:

If this situation of an absentee owner with no Team President and a VP of Football Operations who is likely feeling a degree of animosity towards the owner, continues past the end of the upcoming season, it will be harmful to the league IMO. Never mind the fact it has been hurting the Lions and will continue to do so.

The analogy of King Lear being applied to Braley is poetic, prophetic and sadly, apt.

This nonsense can't continue. Other than Montreal, I think you can present a cogent arguement that the other clubs are putting a good, honest effort forward to help ensure the longevity of their franchises. Hamilton pulled up their socks after the debacle of Austin as coach and the almost hiring of Briles and seem to have gotten over the hump.

The league can't afford to have the good efforts of forward-looking teams get dragged down by the cloistered approach of Braley.

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Gridiron Ernie
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:10 pm

A short new post at 3Down quotes Rick LeLacheur (via TSN 1040):

“David has told me that he is not going to sell the Lions for sure this year and maybe not even next year. And I came here on the basis of David and Wally [Buono] figuring they needed a president and I still had some fire in my belly for the CFL. I’m looking at David Braley owning the team, particularly for the next two years."

“At some point, he’s going to sell it, there’s no question. There’s lots of quality people and corporations here that could be terrific owners going forward after David decides to sell.”

B.C.FAN
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:44 pm

I have great respect for David Braley but it’s looking more and more likely that the Lions will eventually end up as part of an estate sale. I hope he’s made clear provisions for that in his will.
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