Leos/Bombers Semi-Final Post Game Thoughts

[B.C.FAN]

There has to be a reason why Wally's teams have had so many successful regular seasons and have come out awful to start a playoff game. Some of that has had to do with predictability. Winnipeg threw a lot of stuff we hadn't seen before. Buono tends to go into a playoff game with what got him there.

But we've had too many Buono led playoff teams that have come out of the gate like they are on Planet Pluto, reflecting more than just a strategy/game planning issue. The players have seemed 'almost out of it". Wally's demeanor before these big games is always highly nervous. His face is twitching before the game starts. I think his players pick up on it. Wally's fear during the regular season with situations, like third and less than one and punting from the oppositions 35 yard line, fearing a return more than a field goal or going for field goals inside the oppenents 5 yard line reflect his fear. But he is more relaxed during the regular season.

Come playoff time, he is much worse. The 2004 Grey Cup game was a good example. His fear drove him to start an experienced quarterback who was very rusty and have O'Mahoney attempt to punt the football out of bounds on every punt, which really hurt field position. In the 2005 WDF, we came out nervous and we looked completely out of it to start the 2007 WDF. Wally spoke to the team before the 2012 WDF and we were out of that one early too.

Wally fears losing more than he craves winning. I think its a huge reason why we have a long history with him of getting off to bad starts in playoff games in most seasons. His players are way too uptight and that kind of pressure can make their heads go into a different space and not be sharp.

The missed assignments on defence yesterday were an example of that. Wally has been known to yell bizzare stuff during a playoff game so I really believe the nervousness and poor play and missed assignments early, are at least partially derived from him. Then we settle down and start playing like we can. The problem is that getting down early can make it a lot tougher and sometimes its not possible to come back, like we did yesterday.

I also agree that Wally is a fighter. Therefore, I also believe that the fight that we have, also partially comes from Buno. It allows us to fight back when things are down. Buono never gives up and neither do our players.

What our Leos need from Buono is to be more confident and poised and relaxed (while also focused) during the week before, as well as pre-game, before a playoff game.

Then we would have both elements - a better start to a playoff game because our players would be more confident and and less nervous and uptight, and at the same time, they would have Buono's fight, should they face adversity.

An aside, I hope with age, you can root for your Leos a little more comfortably now. Saying that, I stood for the entire fourth quarter!!

Great post, Blitz. I was planning to make some of these points in the B.C.-Calgary preview thread once you start it. I'll elaborate then.

As for turnovers, I never said the Lions had to win the turnover battle against Winnipeg, just make one or two fewer turnovers per game than they did during the regular season. They did that, running a clean slate for the final three quarters after Jennings turned the ball over twice in the first quarter. I also have some thoughts that might shock you on the likely importance of turnovers in the West Final. You'll have to wait to read them.

[Blitz]

I was focused on the Buono seasons Robbie and our poor starts that occurred too often in the playoffs Robbie, and you are conveniently omitting some key information.

In the 2004 Grey Cup game we had a weak first half and were down 17-10 at half time. The Argos outscored us 17-3 in the first half after we scored on the opening drive of the game.

In the 2005 WDF, against the third place Eskimos, our Leos were down 14-3 after the first quarter and 21-3 in the second quarter, before a Barrin Miles interception led to a Casey Printers touchdown run as Buono put him into the game in the second quarter for a short touchdown run to bring the score at half time to 21-10 at the half.

Printers came into the game, after the Eskimos had replaced Ricky Ray with Jaason Maas. Printers also came into the game after a Dickenson interception, which you neglected to mention which set up Edmonton's go ahead touchdown.

It was quite late in the fourth quarter, just after the Dickenson interception, that Printers entered the game. The score was 28-23 for the Eskimos at that time. With our offence struggling prior to Printers entering the game, Printers threw a 47 yard pass to Paris Jackon on his first throw, putting the football on the Edmonton 18 yard line. Edmonton's Keyuo Craver intercepted a pass in front of the Edmonton goal line to end the threat. On the last play of the game, Printers threw to Geroy Simon on a controversial non-pass interference call in the end zone.

Bu my post focused on our poor starts under Buono and examining the reasons why we have gotten off to some poor starts.

In the 2007 WDF, once again hosting as we did in 2005 and 2006, with 54,712 fans intimidating the Riders we went into the playoff game with the CFL's best record with a 14-3-1 season. The Riders jumped out to an early lead as the Riders went up 10-0. Dickenson entered the game in the second quarter, replacing Jarious Jackson, but only threw for 128 yards and was only able to engineer one second half touchdown as we lost 26-17.

The key reason for the discussion is only to use the past to determine if there is something we can correct in order to get off to a good start in Calgary. There is a pattern and if we can change that pattern and have a good first half against Calgary by coming out well prepared and confident and focused, we could get a Grey Cup berth.

That is what this is all about.

[Blitz]

There has to be a reason why Wally's teams have had so many successful regular seasons and have come out awful to start a playoff game. Some of that has had to do with predictability. Winnipeg threw a lot of stuff we hadn't seen before. Buono tends to go into a playoff game with what got him there.

But we've had too many Buono led playoff teams that have come out of the gate like they are on Planet Pluto, reflecting more than just a strategy/game planning issue. The players have seemed 'almost out of it". Wally's demeanor before these big games is always highly nervous. His face is twitching before the game starts. I think his players pick up on it. Wally's fear during the regular season with situations, like third and less than one and punting from the oppositions 35 yard line, fearing a return more than a field goal or going for field goals inside the oppenents 5 yard line reflect his fear. But he is more relaxed during the regular season.

Come playoff time, he is much worse. The 2004 Grey Cup game was a good example. His fear drove him to start an experienced quarterback who was very rusty and have O'Mahoney attempt to punt the football out of bounds on every punt, which really hurt field position. In the 2005 WDF, we came out nervous and we looked completely out of it to start the 2007 WDF. Wally spoke to the team before the 2012 WDF and we were out of that one early too.

Wally fears losing more than he craves winning. I think its a huge reason why we have a long history with him of getting off to bad starts in playoff games in most seasons. His players are way too uptight and that kind of pressure can make their heads go into a different space and not be sharp.

The missed assignments on defence yesterday were an example of that. Wally has been known to yell bizzare stuff during a playoff game so I really believe the nervousness and poor play and missed assignments early, are at least partially derived from him. Then we settle down and start playing like we can. The problem is that getting down early can make it a lot tougher and sometimes its not possible to come back, like we did yesterday.

I also agree that Wally is a fighter. Therefore, I also believe that the fight that we have, also partially comes from Buno. It allows us to fight back when things are down. Buono never gives up and neither do our players.

What our Leos need from Buono is to be more confident and poised and relaxed (while also focused) during the week before, as well as pre-game, before a playoff game.

Then we would have both elements - a better start to a playoff game because our players would be more confident and and less nervous and uptight, and at the same time, they would have Buono's fight, should they face adversity.

An aside, I hope with age, you can root for your Leos a little more comfortably now. Saying that, I stood for the entire fourth quarter!!

Great post, Blitz. I was planning to make some of these points in the B.C.-Calgary preview thread once you start it. I'll elaborate then.

As for turnovers, I never said the Lions had to win the turnover battle against Winnipeg, just make one or two fewer turnovers per game than they did during the regular season. They did that, running a clean slate for the final three quarters after Jennings turned the ball over twice in the first quarter. I also have some thoughts that might shock you on the likely importance of turnovers in the West Final. You'll have to wait to read them.

You have me more than intrigued B.C. Fan!!!!

[Blitz]

Here are a couple of interesting observations from Ed Willes. The first is what Jennings did to engineer the fourth quarter comeback. The second looks at Manny's status for this Sunday against Calgary.

It should be noted Jennings produced the two fourth-quarter touchdown drives on Sunday without Manny Arceneaux, his leading receiver who’d been knocked out of the game in the third quarter, and Shawn Gore, the Lions’ third-leading receiver who didn’t start on Sunday owing to a concussion.

In those two drives, Jennings completed three passes to Marco Ianuzzi, three to running back Chris Rainey and two to backup Stephen Adekolu, which is as many as he caught all season.

All told, Jennings went 11-for-11 for 110 yards and a touchdown in the Lions’ final two possessions, and ran twice for 17 yards and another touchdown.

“To be honest, the team was a little shook up,” Travis Lulay said of the Lions’ start. “(Jennings) did a great job of staying patient. All of a sudden the game was in reach, and he made it happen.

“Call it what you want. He’s got the fight. He cares. This means a lot to him.”

Manny says he is going to play on Sunday. It has to be very doubtful.

Arceneaux’s status for the West final underscores the uneasy relationship football has with head injuries. No one was using the word concussion following the win over the Blue Bombers but you don’t have to be a neurologist to know he suffered a significant head trauma on Taylor Loffler’s hit in the third quarter.

After the game Arceneaux said he’d play against the Stampeders. We shall see.

[TheLionKing]

Arceneaux may play but will he be effective ?

[WestCoastJoe]

Jennings 2nd touchdown run.

http://www.cfl.ca/2016/11/13/jennings-e ... uchdown-2/
.......................

And Loffler's shoulder and helmet hit to Manny's head. This fan does not want any players hit like that, on our team, or on the opponents. Penalty? Of course I agree with the penalty. This fan would hope that for the future health of all players, the league sees fit to add something on to the penalty. We've seen dirty players in the league. I hope this was more of one off with Loffler.

Loffler had time to change his body angle. He elevated up into the vulnerable player. He could have hit Manny in the midsection. He could have avoided the hit altogether, after the ball sailed free. This fan cannot accept that it was too late for him to change angles, or miss altogether. Loffler has been injured himself numerous times, prior to turning pro. It seems to be part of his risky style of play. He might not be deliberately dirty. Not sure. But IMO the hit was dirty, and out beyond risky.

Some on here have mentioned the vulnerable position of Manny. Absolutely right.

Old school --> Kill 'em. Bust his head. Hit him in the soft melon. Make him a rag doll. Knock his lights out. Make him blow snot bubbles. And go to the funeral when he commits suicide, or dies with dementia. Junior Seau. Alex Karras. NHL enforcer Bob Probert. On and on and on.

With all we hear about hockey players and football players, and their health issues from head trauma, this fan is very strongly against any such hits, by any team, including our own. It is disgusting and intolerable.

Guys are going to get injured anyway, but keep the head shots out of it. If football and hockey do not get serious about these injuries, the sports will face regulation (nobody wants that), or lawsuits putting league continuation at risk.

Just IMO ...

http://www.cfl.ca/2016/11/14/wsf-analys ... ish-in-bc/

01:35 in the clip.

Way to lay him out, Loffler. Ya rang his bell. Ya rag dolled him. No remorse shown there. He seems to think the hit was just fine. The player is lying there, three men looking at him with concern, the other, Taylor Loffler, more concerned with indicating he thought it was a legal hit. The player, Manny Arceneaux, lying on the ground could be injured even beyond head trauma. Take a look at the result of your hit, Loffler. Dirty player? Dunno yet. But IMO he is a very high risk player.

[aklawitter]

Loffler is a player that will always ride the line... this time he crossed it. Unnecessary hit. I don't want him to change his aggressive style, though.

Jack Tatum and Scott Stevens are revered for that hit in their respective sports.

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.cfl.ca/2016/09/30/landry-har ... old-times/

Landry: Hard-hitting Loffler a throwback to old times

Don Landry

He’s getting a reputation, that Taylor Loffler.

It’s a good one, too. A reputation for being an artiste of sorts. One that is adept at big hits, explosive in nature, spectacular to see.

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers’ rookie safety is throwing his body around with what you might call little regard for his own health, but the 24-year-old says it ain’t like that at all. No, he says, being proactive when it comes to inevitable collisions with receivers is actually good for one’s health. Or, at least, not bad for it.

“I’ve never gotten injured hitting someone,” Loffler says. “If you’re tentative, that’s where injuries occur again.”

You may have noticed he said “again” at the end of that last sentence.

Loffler knows the pain of injury and the gritty road to get back on a football field through extensive rehabilitation. Twice he had surgery on his right knee, as a college player. Had surgeries on each of his hips, too. And surgery to repair a sports hernia, as well. None of the injuries suffered, he maintains, came from his laying a lick on a receiver.

“If you just run through people, you don’t have the impact on your body as much,” Loffler says, explaining that a more cautious approach can lend itself to a defender hitting a ball carrier on an angle, or off-centre, or with a twisting motion and those are all things he declares to be bad when it comes to the art of the big boom.

Taylor Loffler likes to hit. Likes talking about hitting, too. He’s like a throwback to the old days, when free safeties were called “rovers” and their legion was thick with seekers and destroyers. Not that you don’t still see free safeties that can bring the hammer; it’s just that there’s something in the way Loffler plays that suggests another time in football history.

“You could call me old school,” he says. “I think that’s still a big part of the game. Being a big hitter as a safety.”

“I’ve always kinda played like that.”

Ever since taking over the starting safety’s role with the Bombers back in Week 6, Loffler has been garnering notice and praise for his steady play, punctuated with the occasional air-sucking hit. He’s been good enough that there’s no reason to expect him not to hold on to the starter’s job and his name has slowly but surely crept into Most Outstanding Rookie conversations.

Loffler’s tallied 31 tackles on defence – another five on special teams – and picked off two passes while registering a sack. Those numbers have primarily come in the eight games he’s started, with just one of the defensive tackles coming during the first four games, when he was backing up the man he replaced, the injured Macho Harris.

In his first game as a starter, Loffler separated Edmonton’s Adarius Bowman from the ball with a well-timed shot. He took on the league’s wrecking ball receiver, Montreal’s Nik Lewis, in Week 10, knocking the nearly immovable object off his feet. In Week 13, he grabbed more attention with a clean but extremely firm hit on Argos’ quarterback Dan LeFevour — then came up with what is his favourite blast of the year, a perfectly-timed launch at Toronto receiver Tori Gurley along the sidelines, causing a spectacular incompletion and succeeding in creating a sight that has been rare: Gurley being slow to get to his feet as he collected himself afterwards.

“Kinda the one that sticks out to me is the one on Gurley because I thought I’d be able to intercept that pass but as I was running over there, I looked up and the ball was right in the sun. So, next best thing, just put a big hit on him, so that’s what I did. I’d say that’s probably my favourite one of the year so far.”


“You could call me old school. I think that’s still a big part of the game. Being a big hitter as a safety. I’ve always kinda played like that.”

It hasn’t taken Taylor Loffler long to earn a unique status in the CFL (Johany Jutras/CFL.ca)

Asked what that high velocity collision with Gurley – a bull of a receiver at 6-foot-4, 230 pounds – felt like, Loffler reiterates his belief that a hammer doesn’t feel it like a nail. “A hit like that, the speed I was coming at, you don’t really feel it,” he says. “I basically match the biggest receivers, size-wise.”

That type of hit is the kind of thing the 6-foot-4, 220 pound Loffler wants to keep on dishing out as he proceeds to make his name in Winnipeg and around the CFL. It would be a good thing, he says, if opposing receivers were aware of him and his building reputation with each passing week.

“If you put big hits like that on guys, over time they’ll be looking for you instead of the ball and that’s where drops happen. That’s what I try to do. Make them look for me instead of the ball.”

Don’t get the wrong impression here. Loffler isn’t just a human bullet train, barely clinging to the rails as he rounds the corners, looking for calamity at the expense of design. Those two interceptions – and his description of the play on Gurley – are indicators that he will play the soft game and try to be a ballhawk when the opportunity is presented.

He made one of the more amazing interceptions ever at a CFL Combine last March even if he underplays it. “I wouldn’t say it was amazing,” he says. “I should be able to make plays like that.”

Loffler has seemingly breezed into the CFL after being selected in the third round of the 2016 draft. His past surgeries, no doubt, had general managers nervous about selecting him, otherwise he’d have gone higher, maybe even in the first round. That he has slipped into a starting role so quickly might have surprised him a little but the comfort he says he felt fairly well right away is partly attributable to his own old-school football-ready brain.

“It’s never really been a problem for me to understand defences,” he says, adding that his teammates have helped him adjust to the pro game.

“It’s been a pleasure to play with all these guys so far.”

I’d hazard a guess that his teammates feel it’s been a pleasure for them so far, as well, with Loffler continuing to lock in and propel himself at opposition targets, nevermind the injuries and surgeries that have come before.

“I never really think about it,” he says. “I mean, injuries do happen in football. I know that because I’ve had so many. If you’re thinking about it and playing tentative, that’s where injuries happen again. So I don’t think about it and just do what I do.”

Sounds to me like something a good ol’ fashioned rover would say.

He is a big guy. Variously listed at 6'3'' or 6'4'', 220 lbs. 4.55 in the 40. A heat seeking missile. Oftentimes injured himself. He is a very high risk player. Risk to others and to himself. He seeks big collisions. He has complete advantage against vulnerable receivers. And he unloads as hard as he can, as we saw.

He’s getting a reputation, that Taylor Loffler. -- Don Landry

[pennw]

I agree with you Joe . I also understand that people don't want to regulate aggressive play out of football . Often opinion on such incidents follows team loyalties . But in this day and age with what we know about concussions and lawsuits there needs to be a clear line that is not to be crossed and Loffler crossed it .
If that was a hit on a QB , equally late after the ball was thrown and the head shot. , Loffler would not only be getting fined but at least a game suspension and would be on the watch list like Khaliff Mitchell was .
So some questions to answer , why are QBs given more protection than other ball carriers ? Is it because they are more valuable to the teams and league? In what way are they more valuable ? As players or human beings ? If your answer is as players then you can justify a different level of protection . If you say that does that mean their value as human beings is out weighed by their value as players ? And would a court of law agree with you ?
I know up to now the consensus is that QB are the most valuable assets therefore warrant more protection , but I can't agree with that . They are all human beings first and it is wrong to reverse that , so from that perspective ALL ball carriers should be given equal protection . If the hit is late and unnessasry then it should not be allowed , never mind the old school , it's not the old days anymore . And that was the case in this incident , the ball had clearly sailed out of bounds and Loffler could have held up but by choice nailed Manny for one reason only and it had nothing to do with preventing the catch . So if the league chooses to do nothing , then down the road when they are being sued they will have it coming to them .

[WestCoastJoe]

I agree with you Joe . I also understand that people don't want to regulate aggressive play out of football . Often opinion on such incidents follows team loyalties . But in this day and age with what we know about concussions and lawsuits there needs to be a clear line that is not to be crossed and Loffler crossed it .
If that was a hit on a QB , equally late after the ball was thrown and the head shot. , Loffler would not only be getting fined but at least a game suspension and would be on the watch list like Khaliff Mitchell was .

Yup, pennw.

My opinion on some of this.

QBs are vulnerable in the pocket, especially when throwing. I recall some viscious take downs of QBs. Bradshaw got picked up, turned upside down, and speared into the ground. If it wasn't for his Lil Abner physique, his neck would have been broken.

Kickers need some protection.

I agree that RBs need protection from head shots.

Receivers should not be undercut so that they flip over backwards onto their neck and head.

Old school fans and players still like the violent hits. But it seems to me such hits put the entire sport at risk.

After reading that article about Loffler, I woild say his intent to hit includes maximum punishment. He walked away from Manny after his hit, did not look at him, and then just looked at the official, to protest the penalty, no concern shown for the player he injured. He is a danger, and should be treated as such.

I prefer a guy like Solly. Ferocious but clean hitting, with no intent to injure.

Loffler is a good player. A rookie. With his style of play, his injury history, and his growing reputation, he is making himself a marked man. Not advocating revenge, but what goes around comes around, it seems. I don't think truly dirty players last all that long. Is Loffler a dirty player? IMO he is getting there, if not already there. Time will tell.

Just IMO ...

[louharris74]

So true. If a QB was hit late, high and dirty like Manny was, the guy would have been thrown out of the game, fined and suspended.

There is no place in any sport for that kind of hit. Just glad that Manny was able to get up from that. It could have been so much worse, and for what ??

[DanoT]

Does anyone know if the CFL has fined Loffler for the illegal hit?

[Ballistic Bob]

Just watched the Manny hit. It wasn't Suitor but Cuthbert who went on about old time football. Suits came to Manny defense. Let's get our facts straight. It wasn't Glenn bUT Chris who dissed on Manny. Thnx Bb

[Lions4ever]

What's with all that advertising on the field for yesterday's game. Not there during the regular season.

Due to travel I wasn't able to attend the game in person or even watch it in real time. Finally ran through my DVRed recording a day or two ago.

To say my eyes popped out with disgust at the sight of those cheap, crappy field ads would be an understatement. Appalling.

Yes, I get the need to seize revenue streams and it's common in the CFL and other sports do this that and so on and so on. Ugh.

It. Looks. Like. Garbage. It. Makes. Your. Product. Look. Like. Garbage.

I was pleased with the logo at midfield, but the effect, which could have been great, was ruined.

[almo89]

What's with all that advertising on the field for yesterday's game. Not there during the regular season.

Due to travel I wasn't able to attend the game in person or even watch it in real time. Finally ran through my DVRed recording a day or two ago.

To say my eyes popped out with disgust at the sight of those cheap, crappy field ads would be an understatement. Appalling.

Yes, I get the need to seize revenue streams and it's common in the CFL and other sports do this that and so on and so on. Ugh.

It. Looks. Like. Garbage. It. Makes. Your. Product. Look. Like. Garbage.

I was pleased with the logo at midfield, but the effect, which could have been great, was ruined.

I believe in the playoffs it's mandatory for ads to be on the field. It's no longer a club decision like it is for the regular season.