Leos/Bombers Post-Game Thoughts

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Blitz
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I agree that the league needs to get rid of the ticky tack plays. It just leads to too many calls. I am of the belief of let them play football. I don't mind challenges as I like to have the call right, but it's clear that allowing coaches to challenge PI and illegal contact is a bad idea now. Time to scrap it.
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I think its ok to have a challenge on a or illegal contact but only to the receiver it was thrown to. Let the refs make the other calls. There is nothing worse that a great defensive play or interception nullified for a ticky tack foul on an illegal contact on a receiver that was nowhere near the action,
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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SammyGreene
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Blitz wrote:On defense, we have played 14 games now and we still don't have an International rotational defensive end that can get the job done. Darius Allen was invisible on defense again. Hudson had one sack with his opportunity. This position is supposed to be a pass rushing specialist. Other teams have brought in NFL cuts and are playing them. We would be better off playing Menard as our rotational defensive end than Allen/Hudson.

Bazzie is tired and his pass rush has dropped off. He gets double teamed, they chip him, they play action to his side, they do everything to negate him because they know he is our only real threat as a pass rusher.

Secondly, we have no inside pass rush against pocket passing spread quarterbacks. Westerman is the only defensive tackle that can get any inside rush. Brooks has 0 sacks. We really should have been using a second International tackle, if we could not find an NFL cut defensive end - we should play either Bryant Turner Jr. or Uko rather than wasting the spot with Allen or Hudson.

Our defensive play is continuing to slide. The problem is not just playing rookies Gaitor (who is a good defensive back) and Fenner. Stewart, Edem, and Purifoy are also not playing well. Purifoy's play has dropped off in Washington's scheme. Phillips is the only defensive back who is showing good cover skills within our scheme.
Great stuff as usual Blitz. Completely agree. Back in late August would have said Lions are clearly the Stamps biggest threat and No. 2 in the league. Now, all bests are off with a defence that simply doesn't haven't enough players making plays. As you suggested, the only way we are going to win games is scoring over 30 points and it still wasn't enough yesterday. Wasted huge games by Burnham, Manny, Jennings and Rainey yesterday.
That's why winning the return match at BC Place is hardly a given if we need Jennings to keep throwing for over 400 yards.

Purifoy and Bazzie seemed to have hit a wall a few weeks ago. At least Edem was dropping interceptions earlier in the season. Now he is seemingly nowhere near the ball.

7-1 vs East and now 2-4 against the West is a telling tale. And this defence will face Nichols, Reilly and Durant (2) over the next 4 weeks.
Blitz
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Great stuff as usual Blitz. Completely agree. Back in late August would have said Lions are clearly the Stamps biggest threat and No. 2 in the league. Now, all bests are off with a defence that simply doesn't haven't enough players making plays. As you suggested, the only way we are going to win games is scoring over 30 points and it still wasn't enough yesterday. Wasted huge games by Burnham, Manny, Jennings and Rainey yesterday.

That's why winning the return match at BC Place is hardly a given if we need Jennings to keep throwing for over 400 yards.

Purifoy and Bazzie seemed to have hit a wall a few weeks ago. At least Edem was dropping interceptions earlier in the season. Now he is seemingly nowhere near the ball. Sammy Greene
Great point on Edem. He is not playing well. Got beat for a touchdown yesterday as well. Had a bad game against Ottawa. He is almost invisible.

Purifoy has to be frustrated playing such a passive role as a nickel back. At the start of the year, we allowed Purifoy more freedom to make plays. Now he is just a cover guy most of the time. He started the season off with 3 sacks, an interception, four forced fumbles, a fumble return for a touchdown. Now you rarely see him making plays. I wish we would let him play like the Bombers play Leggett.

How long is it going to take for Wally to realize that we are just wasting a spot with Darius Allen - one sack in 9 games. Menard has 2 sacks with hardly the playing time of Allen. Bryant Turner Jr. has 2 sacks with less playing time too. Both are better than Allen.

The Riders just picked up Willie Jefferson as a defensive end, after he was cut by the NFL, and he was dominating against Ottawa. We should have done the same and got a really good talented defensive end in here.

The problem with our defense is not just playing two rookies on the boundary side. Why are we playing both rookies on the tough side of the pass defense anyway? Because Stewart is not good enough to play boundary corner. We have Fenner playing boundary halfback - a very tough spot to play for a rookie.

The problem of our defence is not two rookies. We don't have enough of an interior pass rush. Roh will struggle with Bazzie not chasing quarterbacks to his side so Roh can get a sack. Brooks was dominating last year and early this year but he is not the same player.

Our linebacker blitzes are easy to pick up. Our pass defense is getting exploited on the wide side even more than the boundary side. Washington has had no answers, except to move Bighill back as a safety, which was a disaster last year and is not the answer.

We probably should insert Jeremy Lane into Fenner's spot for a game.

The Bombers will be tough on Friday and very motivated. The Riders are staring to play very good football.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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WestCoastJoe
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Blitz wrote:
The Bombers also game planned well. The Lions sent five pass rushers on almost every play of the opening Bomber series, rushing Purifoy off the edge, but Nichols capitalized by dumping the ball into holes underneath to march the Bombers down the field. Compounding the defensive problems, the Lions dropped Adam Bighill 20 or 30 yards into deep zone coverage, leaving Solomon Elimimian alone in the middle to try to stop a fired-up Andrew Harris. Elimimian had too much ground to cover by himself and Harris had lots of success early as the Bombers built a 24-3 lead. Elimimian finished with only five defensive tackles, his lowest output in seven games. B.C. FAN
Game planning. It seems we do not game plan in detail against specific tendencies or vulnerabilities in the other team. An approach throughout Wally"s years here. The old school --> We will out execute the opponent, with our basic plays.

Winnipeg fake field goal. We were not prepared. Sound asleep. Our player outside left was completely unaware of the importance of his position, and the vulnerability to such a play. Cut blocked. Play successful. It looked like Solly raced 50 yards to prevent a touchdown.

Pass to Nichols. We were not prepared.

Some coaches disdain "trick" plays. But, in reality, they are plans against weaknesses, that can be devastating.

It doesn't even have to be a trick play. Just capitalizing on a tendency seen in the tape. How a pass defender positions himself or reacts to a move. How a linebacker "cheats." Et cetera ...
They’re football plays. They’re designed because the coordinators see something that they can take advantage of and they’re practiced and executed, and if they’re executed then it results in a good looking play.” -- O'Shea
Time for us to enter the modern age of football planning. Detailed for each opponent.
.............

It continues to seem, as noted numerous times, that our personnel planning in the off season was mistaken in thinking that our International D Line contingent was good enough. There are no dominant types there. Average guys. Our two best players are the Nationals, Westerman and Menard. So it seems to this fan ...

Once again we seem to rely on the individual brilliance of Jennings, Arceneaux, Burnham and Rainey to keep us in games.

I would have to say we were out-coached once again.

So close. So far.

The Harris fumble. Seemed like a quick whistle. It happens. If we need to rely on a fumble to win the game, that is desperation time.

Exciting team, Yes.

What happened to the DC Mark W who earlier this year seemed to have raised his game?

OC Khari? Basic level of generic planning, pablum served up cold.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Blitz wrote:
The Bombers also game planned well. The Lions sent five pass rushers on almost every play of the opening Bomber series, rushing Purifoy off the edge, but Nichols capitalized by dumping the ball into holes underneath to march the Bombers down the field. Compounding the defensive problems, the Lions dropped Adam Bighill 20 or 30 yards into deep zone coverage, leaving Solomon Elimimian alone in the middle to try to stop a fired-up Andrew Harris. Elimimian had too much ground to cover by himself and Harris had lots of success early as the Bombers built a 24-3 lead. Elimimian finished with only five defensive tackles, his lowest output in seven games. B.C. FAN
Game planning. It seems we do not game plan in detail against specific tendencies or vulnerabilities in the other team. An approach throughout Wally"s years here. The old school --> We will out execute the opponent, with our basic plays.

Winnipeg fake field goal. We were not prepared. Sound asleep. Our player outside left was completely unaware of the importance of his position, and the vulnerability to such a play. Cut blocked. Play successful. It looked like Solly raced 50 yards to prevent a touchdown.

Pass to Nichols. We were not prepared.

Some coaches disdain "trick" plays. But, in reality, they are plans against weaknesses, that can be devastating.

It doesn't even have to be a trick play. Just capitalizing on a tendency seen in the tape. How a pass defender positions himself or reacts to a move. How a linebacker "cheats." Et cetera ...
They’re football plays. They’re designed because the coordinators see something that they can take advantage of and they’re practiced and executed, and if they’re executed then it results in a good looking play.” -- O'Shea
Time for us to enter the modern age of football planning. Detailed for each opponent.
.............

It continues to seem, as noted numerous times, that our personnel planning in the off season was mistaken in thinking that our International D Line contingent was good enough. There are no dominant types there. Average guys. Our two best players are the Nationals, Westerman and Menard. So it seems to this fan ...

Once again we seem to rely on the individual brilliance of Jennings, Arceneaux, Burnham and Rainey to keep us in games.

I would have to say we were out-coached once again.

So close. So far.

The Harris fumble. Seemed like a quick whistle. It happens. If we need to rely on a fumble to win the game, that is desperation time.

Exciting team, Yes.

What happened to the DC Mark W who earlier this year seemed to have raised his game?

OC Khari? Basic level of generic planning, pablum served up cold.

Just IMO ...
In our loss to the Bombers, there has been a lot of focus on the blown Cammand Center call on the Harris fumble, which has taken the focus off the many mistakes our Leos made in this game, mostly due to lack of preparation and decision making from our Leos coaching staff.

While I agree with so many others, that the Command Center blew the call, there is no doubt that there were too many Leo plays before that blown call, that would have made the Harris fumble meaningless.

The following stand out for me.

1. Bombers Fake Field Goal

The Bombers lined up for a field goal in the first quarter and faked it, with Dressler running outside for 20 yards to our 12 yard line. The Bombers threw to Harris for a touchdown. We were not prepared and it cost us 4 points.

2. Leone's Missed Field Goal

We would have been able to kick the game winning field goal, rather than gambling on third and 3, if Leone had only converted a 35 yd. attempt earlier in the game. I wrote, before this game, that Leone's field goal kicking was going to cost us a future game and it did. We only get a total of 18 yards of improved field position from Leone's punting while getting the worst field goal kicker in the CFL this season.

This is Wally's second attempt of converting a punter who had very little experience kicking field goals in college. The last time Wally did it, we had to ask lure a retired field goal kicker ( McLoughlin) during the season to take over those duties. I don't blame Leone. I blame Wally. We could have drafted a field goal kicker, with McCallum close to the end of his career of kept Fera instead of Leone.

3. Khari's Bad Play Call in the Red Zone

In the first half, with our Leos offence on the Winnipeg 5 yard line, Khari Jones called for a misdirection motion play for Arseneaux. Arseneauxc came in motion inside, reversed his motion, and ran to the flat. The same play, in the red zone, worked for a touchdown against Ottawa. But it was the first time we had run that play. However, making the same play call, against Winnipeg, when the motion to Arseneaux tips off the play, was dum. On second down, Jones should have called a pass play with quick options for Jennings. He didn't have any and was forced to throw a deep incompletion to Rainey.

4. Sinkfield and the Interception

Jonathan Jennings threw a pass to Sinkfield, from our own 28 yard line. The ball bounced off Sinkfield's hands and Heath intercepted it and ran the football down to our 9 yard line. The play cost us an important 3 points.

5. Second and Two

In the 3rd. quarter, with second and 2, on the Winnipeg 24 yard line, we handed off to Allen for a 1 yard loss. We could have had two cracks there to get two yards and didn't. The same scenario would be repeated near the end of the game.

6. McDuffie Kickoff Return

After scoring a touchdown, on Lulay's second attempt from the Bomber 1 yard line (sure glad Wally still runs the short yardage unit), we promptly gave up a 51 yard return by the Bombers McDuffee. Great way to give the Bombers back momentum after a touchdown. Our kickoff coverage team has been awful all season (worst in the CFL) and once again it hurt us.

7. Inability to Run the Football - Pass on Second and Short

With second and 2, on the Winnipeg 38 yard line, Khari Jones called a pass play that was unsuccessful. Conventional logic says we run the football for the first down. We could also gamble with 3rd and one or less, if we don't make it. But we pass and for good reason. Our single play inside zone read is being crushed. Allen had 11 carries for a 2.5 yard average. After his first rush of the game, his first half rushes went for 2 yds, 5 yds. 3 yds. 3yds. 3 yds., -1 yd., 7 yds. -5 yds. and 1 yd. This from the 'best rushing team' in the CFL against a Bomber defense that only ranks 5th best in the CFL against the run.

When you only use one running play - the inside zone read - with zone blocking its a lot easier to defend. For a weird change, the previous game, we used 3 running plays and were very successful...so why do something that may work successfully.

8. The Draw Play

In the 4th quarter, pinned down on our 19 yd. line, Jennings promptly hit Arseneauz on a great throw and catch play for 35 yds to the Bomber 54 yard line. However, Jennings was sacked by Westerman for a 9 yard loss on the next play. With Jennings completing passes all game in the 20 yd. to 55 yd. range, Wally calls for a conservative running play and Jones dials up the draw play to Allen for a 5 yard loss. Our running game has been a disaster all game but we call this very low percentage play. It was a 'give up' play, with our passing game hot from the start of the game.

9. The Sinkfield Non-Factor

We had 358 yards of receiving in this game from two receivers. That is so mind blowing I had to read it again myself. Burnham had 208 yds. of receiving and Arseneaux had 150 yds. The rest of our recievers combined (Sinkfield, Iannuzzi, Adekulo, Allen, Rainey) had 64 yards of receieving (Adekolu did draw a 36 yard pass interference call). But everyone in the park knew that Jennings was throwing to Burnham and Arseneaux and the Bombers defense could not stop them, even with the ball hawking Winnipeg defence in cover 2 and cover 3.

Sinkfield had 2 receptions for 14 yds. We used him as a possession receiver. We signed Sinkfield for big money, for the rest of this season to add a speed element to our offence. Boldewijn, given possession routes, was contributing more to our offence. Its an example of the complete lack of imagination of Khari Jones 'plug and play' offensive scheme and not adapting to his personnel.

This is basically our offence: one running play blocked the same way each game. Our passing attack says: "Ok, Jonathan, stay in the pocket all game, deal with pass rushers in your face, play with poise, no matter what, and then throw the football downfield to Burnham and Arseneaux. They will be double covered often, so make a purrfect throw". "Bryan and Manny - its your job to also make plays! Go up and high point the football or make a spectacular play by fighting off both defenders for a highlight reel catch. Oh,and we want you to get a lot of yards after the catch, so run through 3 or four tacklers after the catch". What a brilliant offensive scheme.
(If that isn't working we'll throw Rainey into the offence and have him outrun every defender without anyone blocking for him).

What a brilliant offensive scheme. :thdn:

10. Second and Two to Win the Game (Rainey Sweep on Third and One Call)

It's 2nd and 2, on the Bombers 5 yard line. There is 1:24 left on the clock. Jennings has taken the football on our own 28 yard line, with 2 minutes left on the clock. He's completed passes a big pass to Burnham for 41 yds, overcome a 10 yard penalty to hit Iannuzzi for 22 yards, and then completed 2 passes in a row to Arseneauz. Two yards to get a first down. A first down will put us on the Winnipeg 3 yard line. Do we hand off to Allen, behind Stewart and Olifioye. Nope. Loffler knifes in from his linebacking position and makes the tackle to stop Allen for a one yard gain. All we needed was a quick dive play, with no penetration, and let Allen pick up 2 yards.

Then its 3rd and one, with 58 seconds left on the clock. Conventional wisdom says run the quarterback sneak with Lulay for a 1st down. We then have 3 plays to score from the 3 yard line and run out the clock. Scoring quickly will leave time on the clock for the Bombers to attempt to come back with a field goal.

Lulay had easily scored a touchdown sneaking the football behind Steward and Olifoye, earlier in the game, after unsuccessfully trying to run behind center. Steward and Olifioye had blown out their defenders.

There is an old saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". The Bombers had been fooled once. They were not going to be fooled twice.
“Oh yeah. We talked about it right before it happened,” said Leggett. “We knew. We had already seen Rainey on the opposite side of me get a 50-yard run on that exact same play. So I just changed my position up (he flipped sides), we communicated and I spun out of a block and tripped him up
It was the wrong call for the following reasons: 1) The quarterback sneak was the percentage play. We had been successful on 15 of 18 quarterback sneaks this season. 2) We needed to run some more time off the clock 3) if we had gotten the first down, we had 3 more attempts to score a touchdown from the 3 yard line.

I won't even bother going into using Bighill as a safety etc.

We started this season beating Calgary. We went into Calgary and lost in overtime, in a game in which we should have won. But the next time we played Calgary they blew us out on both sides of the football.

As time went on this season, Calgary's superior coaching or our inferior coaching showed up. As Calgary introduced more of its offensive scheme and more of its defensive scheme, they improved at a much higher level than we did, with our restrictive scheme. We had the talent to beat them early in the season but we didn't have the coaching to beat them later.

With great individual performances from Rainey (298 yards in combined offence), from Jennings (73.7% completion rate, 414 yds. passing) and Burnham/Arseneaux (358 yds. receving combined)

If we could have just run the football just a little better, we would have won this game. We came up short on second and two three times in this game...and that is on Dorazio as much as it is Jones because Dorazio coordinates the running game and Wally coordinates the Jumbo team (why I have no idea)

But for how long can we live off Jennings great throws under pressure and Burnham and Arseneaux's spectacular catches.

[
quote]“They’re a good team,” said Westerman. “They have a dynamic quarterback that made me miss once and threw a deep pass, he can make guys miss, run around and keep the play alive. They have big-play receivers like we were saying all week. They live off those chunk, explosion plays. We didn’t do a good enough job of stopping them".
[/quote]

It would be interesting to see Khari Jones coach an offence without a Jennings or receivers like Arseneaux or Burnham making spectacular catches against double coverage. I have do doubt what the results would be. It would be similar to 2014 or worse.

Coaching, scheme, game planning, play calling are our biggest problems...not talent.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Agreed that it's not the talent, but the play calling that cost the win. I don't know why they were going to Rainey after he was obviously shaken up on a tackle minutes before. (The broadcast team mentioned this too.) Both the play before and the failed 3rd down play he should not have been
out there.
maxlion
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
OC Khari? Basic level of generic planning, pablum served up cold.
Marc Trestman just got fired. Perhaps he'd like to serve as an offensive consultant for us for the rest of the season with an eye to returning full time next year. Could be a good situation for him.
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DanoT
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maxlion wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:
OC Khari? Basic level of generic planning, pablum served up cold.
Marc Trestman just got fired. Perhaps he'd like to serve as an offensive consultant for us for the rest of the season with an eye to returning full time next year. Could be a good situation for him.
Wally should offer him the HC job for next year before Montreal does it. Hell, Braley should offer Trestman a minority ownership position.
maxlion
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Interesting that Wally apparently consulted with him in the off season. A consultants role could be a great fit, a chance for Wally and Trestman to feel each other out. With Jennings and other great offensive pieces in place,and a cosmopolitan city, we would be an attractive location for someone like Trestman I would think.
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WestCoastJoe
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maxlion wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:
OC Khari? Basic level of generic planning, pablum served up cold.
Marc Trestman just got fired. Perhaps he'd like to serve as an offensive consultant for us for the rest of the season with an eye to returning full time next year. Could be a good situation for him.
maxlion wrote:Interesting that Wally apparently consulted with him in the off season. A consultants role could be a great fit, a chance for Wally and Trestman to feel each other out. With Jennings and other great offensive pieces in place,and a cosmopolitan city, we would be an attractive location for someone like Trestman I would think.
Wow. We should be so lucky. IMO football is an Xs and Os game now, more than ever. The top guys do the best Xs and Os. Talent tends to even out.

Has Khari shown us all he can deliver? Is he delivering what Wally wants? A guy like Trestman does not come along all that often. He seems so very well suited to the CFL. Moreso than he was suited to the NFL or to the US college ranks.

IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
maxlion
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
maxlion wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:
OC Khari? Basic level of generic planning, pablum served up cold.
Marc Trestman just got fired. Perhaps he'd like to serve as an offensive consultant for us for the rest of the season with an eye to returning full time next year. Could be a good situation for him.
maxlion wrote:Interesting that Wally apparently consulted with him in the off season. A consultants role could be a great fit, a chance for Wally and Trestman to feel each other out. With Jennings and other great offensive pieces in place,and a cosmopolitan city, we would be an attractive location for someone like Trestman I would think.
Wow. We should be so lucky. IMO football is an Xs and Os game now, more than ever. The top guys do the best Xs and Os. Talent tends to even out.

Has Khari shown us all he can deliver? Is he delivering what Wally wants? A guy like Trestman does not come along all that often. He seems so very well suited to the CFL. Moreso than he was suited to the NFL or to the US college ranks.

IMO ...
Perhaps it's not completely far fetched...here's a quote from Wally from earlier this year:
Since Marc left (the CFL) we’ve always kept in touch. He’s a decent guy and we’ve developed a friendship. He’d call and ask for advice when he first came in the league. I’ve always respected him. He took a program and made it better when it was already good.” …
http://montrealgazette.com/sports/the-s ... otebook-34
Blitz
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maxlion wrote:Interesting that Wally apparently consulted with him in the off season. A consultants role could be a great fit, a chance for Wally and Trestman to feel each other out. With Jennings and other great offensive pieces in place,and a cosmopolitan city, we would be an attractive location for someone like Trestman I would think.
Its late in the season for Trestman to consult. Hufnagel did it 2007 for our Leos but that was from the start of the season and Hufnagel was also at training camp.

Trestman will either become an offensive coordinator in the NFL (very good money) or a Head Coach in the CFL. While B.C. would be an attractive place for Trestmann to live, we could never offer him the money that would be required to attract him.

Its sure a nice thought though - a combination West Coast/Spread Offence. Our offence would normally be called the 'Hope and Prayer" offence but with Jennings, Arseneaux, Burnham, and Rainey it should be better named the 'Spectacular Chuck and Catch Offence'. :wink:
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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