Ticats at Lions postgame stats and comments

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zeppo
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Blitz wrote: Collaras made a bad throw on third down, the football bounded off Edem's brick hands to the ground, and our Leos were 5-2.
"Brick hands" aside, the correct play in that situation is to knock the ball down rather than intercept it, thereby negating the possibility of
a fumble on the return.

Blitz wrote:But the second half also showed weaknesses in our offence. We did not have a good game plan for the Hamilton blitz. We don't screen, bubble screen, or have a lot of hot read plays, or quick throw anti-blitz plays. We basically put it all on Jennings. Our running game was also shut down for most of the second half. Johnson had no holes and began to run laterally. Putting in a cold Murray-Lawrence for a running play didn't help.
I agree for the most part. However, the offensive line did open up a few holes for Johnson despite the fact that Hamilton consistently had six or seven players in the box. But their inability to
convert on second and two deep inside Tiger-Cat territory lead to the missed Leone field goal that could have cost the Lions the game.
zeppo
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Dusty wrote:The Banks return was impressive, he pretty much had 2/3rds of the field to run towards and outran all the Lions that were coming down field. He was past half the team by the 25 yard line. I did think that one of the Lions (it might have been Lulay coming laterally towards the sidelines) was held and eventually tackled to the ground around our 45-50 yard line, preventing him from getting across the field to push Banks over the sideline. I was very clear to people in our section who were protesting the lack of a call and then when the replay was shown, were calling for Wally to challenge the call.... He looked like he might challenge, but did not.

Maybe holding isn't challengeable in this instance??? I dunno, but I did think that it was a pretty clear case of holding (more than the Lokombo call). Did anyone see that? Is it a challenge play?

Heh! I must confess that, by the time Banks got to the Hamilton 50 yard line, I was no longer watching the play as I thought that Leone had just given the game away.
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South Pender wrote:Excellent analyses, B.C.FAN and Blitz. An exciting game for sure, but shouldn't have had the nail-biting finish. It's hard to understand MW's lack of pressure on Collaros in the 2nd half when it had worked so well in the first half. I had thought that it had become fully-accepted that playing cautiously in order to maintain a lead was bad strategy, but evidently not. And, of course, it wasn't just the D that went ultra-conservative in the second half; the O seemed to also have lost its bounce and effort. It's great to get the win, but I didn't come away from the game feeling that the Leos were developing into a dominant team.
The Lions defence had five sacks in the first half, and, even though he had some success, Collaros looked uncertain and skittish on many occasions. For reasons that I cannot understand, Washington rushed either three or four on EVERY down in the second half, giving Collaros time to settle in, find his receivers, and gain confidence.

Even though the Lions usually had eight or nine back in coverage, the Tiger-Cat receivers are an excellent and experienced group, and they were able to consistently find the holes. Washington didn't need to send extra rushers on every down, but he needed to give Collaros different looks as he had done in the first half. The Lions' defence played hard, and I thought that the secondary covered and tackled very well. But allowing Callaros to stand in the pocket without pressure was asking for trouble

IIRC, Jennings only rolled out once by design in the whole game, and that lead to the second touchdown pass to Arceneaux. He had a receiver with him to the outside,
and could also have run for a decent gain. The Tiger-Cat secondary had to flow with Jennings, leaving the middle of the field wide open for Arceneaux. Why Jones
doesn't roll Jennings out more often, especially to escape pressure, is incomprehensible to me. zeppo
Our Leos have used the same offensive play book since late 2004. It has been used by Chap, Jones, Cortez, and now Jones again. The only adaptions to it were in 2007, with Hufnagel consulting Kruck, 2011 and 2012, when Chap finally went to more tight end sets and a lot more misdirection play action and rollouts, and this season, where at times, Jones has gone to some tight end sets and two back sets but with a spread offence mentality of keeping his quarterback in the pocket.

Jennings, quite frankly, is making our passing attack work due to his talent and poise in the pocket. He can make all the throws fromm deep, intermediate, and short and he can fire bullets or put touch on the football. He is very mobile and can throw on the run to be able to use semi-rollout and sprint out plays but we choose to keep him in the pocket.

We don't give Jennings the tools to combat the blitz. In the spread 5 receiver set, he really only has time for two progressions. He can never go through the progressions for all of his receivers under that type of pressure. He can look at his primary receiver off his read, and then he has time to look at one more receiver or has to escape, buy time, run, or throw it out of bounds. We rarely give him the pass patterns to combat the blitz. We don't run quick slants, quick, short crosses, the quick sideline pattern, the quick dig, the skinny post, the quick hook (comeback) or the quick slant. We rarely release the back to the flat. We hardly ever, ever screen. The screen pass is a great play to combat the blitz - the bubble screen, the jailbreak screen, the slip screen, and the misdirection screen to the fullback or tailback are not in our repertoire.

In the run game, all we run is the inside zone read with a rare quick pitch play. We don't fly sweep, the motion swing pass, run a reverse, use the shovel pass, the outside zone read, or the zone read option. So almost every run play is an inside zone read right at the defensive tackle spots. No variety at all.

Offensively, we're basically counting on Jennings to make great passes under pressure and for Arsenault, Burnham, and Gore to make great plays.

Defensively, Mark Washington's defense has been middling for the most part, until this season. Using more combination coverages and personnel packages, along with a mixture of strategies from three man and four man lines with more effective half back, nickel, and linebacker blitzes we came into this game tied with Hamilton for the league lead in sacks and have five more in the first half.

Rushing only three or four men, as we almost did the whole second half is a recipe for problems. It might work well against an average quarterback but quarterbacks like Collaras, Bo Levi Mitchell, and Trevor Harris will eventually pick it apart. We needed more mixture in our defensive scheme in the second half and we didn't get it. We also got a tired defense playing that style, while the offence also went two and out too often.

It was an exciting game and I love excitement when watching other CFL games but when we have a huge lead, I don't want excitement. I want to see the game put away. This is not on the players. Yes, there were mistakes by players too, from penalties to an interception to a missed field goal by Leone. But coaching strategy in the second half of the game and missed challenges played a bigger role in allowing the Hamilton comeback. If Wally challenges the no yards call, Leone has a chip shot, even though he should have made it. If Jennings had a check down or hot read, he would not have attempted to thrown the wide out pass to Burnham.

As for Edem's 'brick' hands zeppo, the correct play, as you note is to knock it down. However, if you do the dum thing on that play and go for the interception, you need to catch it because he could have deflected it to a Hamilton receiver. It's happened a few times this season in the CFL where a defensive back has missed an easy interception and done just that.

This Leo team could easily be 7-0 this season had we not allowed two comeback wins against Toronto and Calgary. We almost allowed a third one. Thankfully, we didn't and that shows some maturation but we need to strategize better and learn to play better with leads.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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BC 1988
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zeppo wrote:
B.C.FAN wrote:Another stat that should be mentioned is that Richie Leone punted seven times for an average of 62.4 yards and a net of 46.6 yards. A couple of long punts bounced into the end zone for singles but anything that prevents Brandon Banks from breaking the game open is good. Leone's only mistake of the night was his missed 37-yard field goal attempt that produced an 11-point swing when Banks returned it 126 yards for a TD. Instead of an 11-point B.C. lead with four minutes left, Hamilton tied the game on the ensuing two-point convert.
Yes, missing that field goal was a "killer", and could have cost the Lions the game. Professional kickers need to be automatic from 37 yards.
I agree, especially in a climate controlled environment, even with a an attempt from a somewhat more challenging angle like this was.This comes down to Leone being a punter who has had to learn placekicking and last season's coaching debacle provided the worst circumstances to do that. Even though he did both PK and punting in college, his NFL tryout was only for punter (and he does that very well). It doesn't bode well for a wintry road playoff or GC game where the game is on the line.

Leone is still only 24, but he doesn't show a lack of confidence in his body language. If the Lions had lost last night, it would have been more damaging to him.

Unlike Bede in MTL, who has become a basket case. 26 year old Bede is a European who converted to Canadian Football from soccer in 2011. I think his near-flawless performance in college and the CFL last year left him ill-prepared for what happened to him this season.
Last edited by BC 1988 on Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dat
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I haven't seen a lot of that referee that was doing the game last night and hope I don't again. A totally lame call on Rainey's TD return. A Ticat player who is ten yards behind the play gets a light push in the back and rolls to the ground. Although Leone had a decent night punting and kicking he has to make the 37 yard field goal near the end of the game. If he makes it they`re up by 11 points. Instead he misses, Banks runs it back and it`s a tie game. I still have some concerns about the D. It still seems that without Brooks they have difficulty getting pressure unless they blitz. Giving up a lot of points some games. On the positive side though they`re scoring a lot of points, special teams are better than last year and the D are coming up with turnovers. It`s nice to see the Lions at 5-2 at this point, something most people wouldn`t have predicted at the start of the year. Nice game by Manny last night. Hopefully Brooks is back in the lineup against Calgary and gets some payback on the guy that rolled his ankle.

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[quote="dat"]I haven't seen a lot of that referee that was doing the game last night and hope I don't again. A totally lame call on Rainey's TD return. A Ticat player who is ten yards behind the play gets a light push in the back and rolls to the ground. Although Leone had a decent night punting and kicking he has to make the 37 yard field goal near the end of the game. If he makes it they`re up by 11 points. Instead he misses, Banks runs it back and it`s a tie game. I still have some concerns about the D. It still seems that without Brooks they have difficulty getting pressure unless they blitz. Giving up a lot of points some games. On the positive side though they`re scoring a lot of points, special teams are better than last year and the D are coming up with turnovers. It`s nice to see the Lions at 5-2 at this point, something most people wouldn`t have predicted at the start of the year. Nice game by Manny last night. Hopefully Brooks is back in the lineup against Calgary and gets some payback on the guy that rolled his ankle."



Light hit or hard hit it doesn't matter. I don't know the exact wording of the rule but here is how it works: If a would be tackler is about to be blocked and at the last second he turns his back to the blocker, if he then gets hit there is no penalty. So there is no judgement here it is black and white a mistake by the ref. Luckily the Lions scored a TD a few plays later.

I don't have a problem with the on field refs when they make a mistake during live action in the heat of the moment as mistakes also happen to players and coaches, but there is supposed to be someone in the Command Centre or at the stadium that is there to correct mistakes yet they do nothing. :bang:
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Both the Stamps and Leos had Don Sweet work with them this year as a kicking consultant. Paredes has turned his year around; maybe due to his work with Sweet? If not still on the Lion's books, maybe Sweet should come back and spend some more time with Leone. His place kicking has improved but got keep working at it; don't want the yips like Bede.
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CardiacKid wrote:Both the Stamps and Leos had Don Sweet work with them this year as a kicking consultant. Paredes has turned his year around; maybe due to his work with Sweet? If not still on the Lion's books, maybe Sweet should come back and spend some more time with Leone. His place kicking has improved but got keep working at it; don't want the yips like Bede.

I have faith in Leone but perfection takes time.

As I recall McCallum was a journeyman kicker in the early part of his career and didn't really become outstanding until he became a Lion. :yahoo:
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Dusty wrote:The Banks return was impressive, he pretty much had 2/3rds of the field to run towards and outran all the Lions that were coming down field. He was past half the team by the 25 yard line. I did think that one of the Lions (it might have been Lulay coming laterally towards the sidelines) was held and eventually tackled to the ground around our 45-50 yard line, preventing him from getting across the field to push Banks over the sideline. I was very clear to people in our section who were protesting the lack of a call and then when the replay was shown, were calling for Wally to challenge the call.... He looked like he might challenge, but did not.

Maybe holding isn't challengeable in this instance??? I dunno, but I did think that it was a pretty clear case of holding (more than the Lokombo call). Did anyone see that? Is it a challenge play?
I saw it and thought it should have been a penalty (certainly more than Lokombo's illegal block penalty on Rainey's punt return) but holding is not challengeable.
OK, Wally could not challenge the holding non-call.... I get that..... if Holding was challengeable, we would still be at the game :wink:

I think that Wally needs to have a better system of communication between the upstairs spotters and the Head Coach. When the TD return happened, he was wandering around the sideline trying to get information.... it looked like a lot of confusion on the sideline. Either the HC needs a headset or he needs to have someone next to him with the headset relaying information from the replays....The OC or DC is too involved with the next play call to be diverted to answer Wally's questions.... Maybe the lack of communication is the reason that he has been losing most of his challenges... although he won one last night...
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With regards to the missed FG, Leone should have kicked it hard enough that if he did miss it went through the back of the end zone. Also, I sometimes wonder why they don't have a modified FG team with some better runners and tacklers for occasions like this where it is absolutely critical that in the event of the miss you have some more able personnel to run down and stop players. There was nothing more painful (well almost) than watching Jovan Olafioye trying to run down Brandon Banks.
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South Pender wrote:The Argos don't seem to be doing well either in their new digs, BMO field. They're averaging 17,074 over four home games, with one crowd on only 12,373. The new stadium is reported to hold 26,500 for football and 30,200 for soccer and rugby. Not sure why the capacity would be less for football. I wonder whether attendance is down all through the league so far in 2016.
BMO field has fewer seats for CFL, due to having to remove rows of portable seating to create the endzones. (It was originally a soccer-specific stadium).

The Argos had 16,168 for their home preseason and 24,812 for their home opener, but both of those were bolstered by a sizable contingent of HAM fans. Home game 2 vs OTT was played on a Wed night and drew 12,373. Home game 3 vs MTL was played on a Monday night, and had the early road closures for the Honda Indy in effect during the game, as well as a concert next door at Molson Amphitheater. It drew 16,048. Game 4 vs WPG was on Friday night and drew 15,063. Preparations for the CNE cut into the available parking according to this:
"Due to the ongoing setup and configuration of the upcoming Canadian National Exhibition, which opens next weekend, fans are encouraged to take public transit (GO Train or TTC) as parking will be limited on the Exhibition grounds over the course of the next three home games. On Friday night lots 1,2,5 and 6 will be open and available for parking."
As to the next 2 games:
"Argos fans attending home games on August 20 and August 31, will be granted free admission to the CNE with a game ticket."
That might help them a bit. Sun Sept 11th (part 2 of the Labour Day Classic vs HAM) is guaranteed to be up there among the season's best attended.
I haven't checked the other teams home attendance vs last season, but I think I saw something that indicated a decline league-wide, with a corresponding increase in TV numbers.
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Well lets see if we can analyze this game to death . First and foremost ,O yeah they won.
If the lion's are guilty of anything and they are,it was going home before the game was over. The Leo's aren't the first team to go into the halve with a big lead and almost blow it( Hello Edmonton) and they won't be the last(note I said almost)
Lets see what else, despite watching Banks run a missed field goal back a 100 plus yards and blowing a 20 point halve time lead and with every reason to tank, what do they do drive the ball 70 yrds and score.Do you know what kind of team does that, A DAM GOOD ONE.
I have read much about how the Leo's don't do this and don't do that,and aren't this or that.To put it quite simply They are and they Do.
What was even better was Austin and Seinhauer, both genius coaches got to sit and watch.Not only did they get to watch us score,they also got to watch our D stuffim.
I myself am looking forward to watching a very good Lion team ,play for first place next week.
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Sir Purrcival wrote:With regards to the missed FG, Leone should have kicked it hard enough that if he did miss it went through the back of the end zone. Also, I sometimes wonder why they don't have a modified FG team with some better runners and tacklers for occasions like this where it is absolutely critical that in the event of the miss you have some more able personnel to run down and stop players. There was nothing more painful (well almost) than watching Jovan Olafioye trying to run down Brandon Banks.
Completely agree--the Lions were asking for Banks to tear them apart with a missed FG attempt. Leone definitely has the leg to put it through the end zone, and should have been told to do that.
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The second half reminds me of a hockey team that gets off to a big lead after the 1st period and then plays conservative the rest of the way. Invariably it comes back to bite them in the butt. The coaches especially Mark Washington and Khari Jones should be held responsible as it was their play calling that was primarily responsible for almost losing the game.
zeppo
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CardiacKid wrote:Both the Stamps and Leos had Don Sweet work with them this year as a kicking consultant. Paredes has turned his year around; maybe due to his work with Sweet? If not still on the Lion's books, maybe Sweet should come back and spend some more time with Leone. His place kicking has improved but got keep working at it; don't want the yips like Bede.
My understanding is that Sweet is available to Leone whenever he is needed.
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