The Size Of Our Leos Offensive Line

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Blitz
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Numerous articles have been written this season about the size of our Leos offensive line and the notion that it is much bigger this season than other CFL teams or recent Leo teams.

The reality is that the offensive line that we fielded against Montreal was not that big, even by CFL standards. For example, Andrew Harris runs behind an offensive line in Winnipeg that averages 318 pounds.

We went into the Montreal game with the following starters:

Cody Husband (Center)- 307 Pounds
Tim O''Neil - Left Guard - 305 pounds
Kirby Fabian - Right Guard - 300 pounds
Jovan Olifoye - Left Tackle - 325 pounds
Antonio Johnson Right Tackle - 305 pounds

Average Weight: 308 pounds

Steward started the first 5 games of the season at left guard. When we insert Steward into the starting offensive lineup:

Cody Husband (Center)- 307 Pounds
Hunter Steward- Left Guard - 323 pounds
Kirby Fabian - Right Guard - 300 pounds
Jovan Olifoye - Left Tackle - 325 pounds
Antonio Johnson Right Tackle - 305 pounds

Average Weight: 312 pounds

When Vaillencourt returns to the starting lineup:

Cody Husband (Center)- 307 Pounds
Hunter Steward- Left Guard - 323 pounds
C. Vaillencourt - Right Guard - 327 pounds
Jovan Olifoye - Left Tackle - 325 pounds
Antonio Johnson Right Tackle - 305 pounds

Average Weight: 317 1/2 pounds

If/when Levy Adcock replaces Antonio Johnson

Cody Husband (Center)- 307 Pounds
Hunter Steward- Left Guard - 323 pounds
C. Vaillencourt - Right Guard - 327 pounds
Jovan Olifoye - Left Tackle - 325 pounds
Levy Adcock- Right Tackle - 325 pounds

Average Weight: 321 and 1/2 pounds


How does the size of our offensive line compare with other CFL teams and NFL teams.

Lets compare our offensive line with Calgary.

Lavartu - Center - 302 pounds
Bergman - L. Guard - 347 pounds
Wilson - R. Guard - 331 pounds
Dennis - L. Tackle - 341 pounds
Fewderkeil - R. Tackle - 316 pounds

Average Weight - 328 1/2 pounds.


We tend to think that NFL offensive lines are bigger than CFL offensive lines. Well, lets have a look.

The Oakland Raiders (327.2 pounds), the San Diego Chargers, (327 pounds) and the Los Angeles Rams (322.2 pounds) have the three biggest offensive lines in the NFL. The Seattle Seahawks offensive line last year averaged 320 pounds. The lightest offensive lines in the NFL were the Texans (304.8) and the Atlanta Falcons ( 304.4 pounds)

The average weight of an NFL offensive line in 2015 was 314 pounds.

If the Calgary Stampeders were playing in the NFL, their offensive line would be the biggest offensive line in that league. The Stamps have the biggest offensive line in pro football, north and south of the border.

If our Leos had all five starters playing (Husband, Steward, Olifoye, Vaillencourt, and Adcock) we would have the 5th biggest offensive line in pro football and an offensive line that is heavier than the Seattle Seahawks offensive line. There would be 28 NFL teams with lighter offensive lines than our Leos.

However, at present, with Fabian and Johnson starting, our offensive line is not a huge offensive line but it is close to an average size NFL offensive line. In doing this research, it was a surprise to learn that most of our CFL team's offensive lines are about the same size as NFL offensive lines on average.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
TheLionKing
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My how times have changed. It used to be 285 lbs for an offensive lineman was considered huge.
Blitz
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TheLionKing wrote:My how times have changed. It used to be 285 lbs for an offensive lineman was considered huge.



They sure have TheLionKing!

Here are the weights of our starting offensive line for our 1964 Grey Cup Champs.

Center - Gary Schwertfeger - 225 pounds
Right Guard - Tom Hinton - 225 pounds
Left Guard - Steve Cotter - 220 pounds
Left Tackle - Bill Frank - 255 pounds
Right Tackle - Lonnie Dennis - 220 pounds
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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David
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This was really well researched Blitz. An interesting read! I had no idea that Calgary's line was so big. Do you think much 'fudging' goes on - higher or lower? I expect some of these guys in-season might "work" a few pounds off due to the demands of the position.

I hired Dean Valli's company the other week and he knocked on my door. He looked like he still has "a body, it's a real body, it's....he's got no flab on him" (sorry, that never gets old. We talked football, but I didn't dare bring that up! Anyway, yea he's still massive).

I'm a Lions collector and all of my old programs, player cards, and media guides from the late '60s and early '70s list our O-linemen at about 240-250lbs! Ken Sugarman was probably our biggest at 260. We didn't crack the 270 mark until Larry Watkins came along in 1977.


DH :cool:
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Blitz
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David wrote:This was really well researched Blitz. An interesting read! I had no idea that Calgary's line was so big. Do you think much 'fudging' goes on - higher or lower? I expect some of these guys in-season might "work" a few pounds off due to the demands of the position.

I hired Dean Valli's company the other week and he knocked on my door. He looked like he still has "a body, it's a real body, it's....he's got no flab on him" (sorry, that never gets old. We talked football, but I didn't dare bring that up! Anyway, yea he's still massive).

I'm a Lions collector and all of my old programs, player cards, and media guides from the late '60s and early '70s list our O-linemen at about 240-250lbs! Ken Sugarman was probably our biggest at 260. We didn't crack the 270 mark until Larry Watkins came along in 1977.


DH :cool:
Yes, Calgary's offensive line is huge David. They were the first CFL team to figure out that getting bigger at the guard position was necessary, with today's bigger defensive tackles. Our Leos, with Vaillencourt and Steward in the lineup, will match up better against big defensive tackles.

I don't think most teams fudge the numbers. But you are right that as the season progresses, it gets harder for offensive lineman to keep the weight up. Vaillencourt and Steward could be under 220 right now.

Once they retire, most offensive lineman try to lose the weight to get back to their natural weight. Some do and some don't.

I wrote a thread on Stuke's Chalk Talk regarding what teams are looking for in an offensive lineman. Zone blocking schemes prioritize athletic, quick offensive lineman in the NFL. The biggest offensive line is not necessarily the best. Zone blocking focuses more on technique especially footwork as the offensive line angle blocks laterally and in unison. There is no predetermined hole for the tailback. Man blocking tends to prefer bigger offensive linemen and predetermines the hole for the tailback.

I think we'll soon have an evolution back to man blocking at some point. Defenses are getting adjusted to zone blocking schemes. I look forward to seeing the day when we return to more trap blocks, pulling guards, and double teams at the point of attack.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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That's a really interesting analysis, Blitz. And the numbers are very surprising. I had no idea that Calgary had such a massive O-line--really huge. When the Seahawks drafted Germain Ifedi, at 325 lbs., in the spring and added free agent J'Marcus Webb, at 331, Pete Carroll commented on the size of the two and how he was looking forward to seeing how these two massive guys--both slotted for the right side of the line (Ifedi at guard and Webb at tackle), would improve the O-line's general efficiency. And yet, these two average about the same as the entire Stampeders' O-line! As of now (with training camp still running), the Seahawks' five presumptive O-line starters average 319.2 lbs., so well below the Stamps' O-line. Size isn't everything on the O-line, of course--agility, strength, hand- and foot-work, smarts, etc., matter as much--but I'll be looking forward to the evolution of the Lions' O-line when Vaillancourt and, particularly, Adcock return.
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WestCoastJoe
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Urban Henry was the biggest guy in the CFL way back in time, 1958-1960. I recall his weight, playing defensive tackle, was 250 pounds.

Lonnie Dennis played OT for us at a listed 220, 1960-1968. (Blitz mentions this above as well.)

I recall OL weights started to shoot up with the Cowboys under Jimmy Johnson in the 1990s. Nate Newton, 335. Erik Williams, 325. Big hosses.

Just looking at the baggage these big OL guys carry around the midriff, one thinks it cannot be all that healthy. Hard on the heart. Hard on the legs. Difficult everywhere.

Obviously size for OL players has advantages. Somewhat similar to sumo wrestlers. But there are risks to one's health.

Some shed a lot of weight after they quit playing (also noted above by Blitz). Hopefully it is in time to prevent health problems.

God bless 'em all. :thup:
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Blitz
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South Pender wrote:That's a really interesting analysis, Blitz. And the numbers are very surprising. I had no idea that Calgary had such a massive O-line--really huge. When the Seahawks drafted Germain Ifedi, at 325 lbs., in the spring and added free agent J'Marcus Webb, at 331, Pete Carroll commented on the size of the two and how he was looking forward to seeing how these two massive guys--both slotted for the right side of the line (Ifedi at guard and Webb at tackle), would improve the O-line's general efficiency. And yet, these two average about the same as the entire Stampeders' O-line! As of now (with training camp still running), the Seahawks' five presumptive O-line starters average 319.2 lbs., so well below the Stamps' O-line. Size isn't everything on the O-line, of course--agility, strength, hand- and foot-work, smarts, etc., matter as much--but I'll be looking forward to the evolution of the Lions' O-line when Vaillancourt and, particularly, Adcock return.
Calgary, when they have their regular starters playing offensive line, use Bergman and Wilson at guard. Bergman is 347 pounds and Wilson is 331 pounds. They are massive guards and they have a 263 pound tailback in Messam running behind them.

Its why defenses really need to have at least one defensive tackle at close to 300 pounds who can play with a wide base, employ a low center of gravity, and be able to penetrate. When Calgary zone blocks, their guards often chip and then get into the second layer and start getting blocks on our linebackers.

With the spread offence, the offensive line does not want inside penetration in terms of the pass rush, because CFL quarterbacks throw so much out of the pocket these days. Big offensive guards can do a better job against the bull rushes so often used by defensive tackles.

When playing a team like Calgary, we really need Brooks in the lineup to combat Calgary's offensive line. While our defence has played well this season, I really question going with 3 International defensive ends and only one International tackle. With guards getting bigger a defense really needs to have a good rotation inside. I would prefer us to go with two International defensive ends and Menard (Forde could rotate in occasionally) and go with two International tackles and Westerman. If we could recruit a huge, quick nose tackle type, it would free up Brooks to have less double teams.

Do we really lose that much by taking Allen, at defensive end, out of the lineup and instead use a big International nose tackle. I don't think so!

I don't think a lot of CFL fans realize how big our offensive lines really are these days.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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DanoT
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Esks have a big O line but they are not that good. Over on Esksfans they are pinning for the return of injured centre Sorensen lol.
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B.C.FAN
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Offensive linemen have been getting bigger and bigger over the years but the published weights mean nothing. Patrick Kabongo was listed at 315 pounds for his whole career. When he signed with the Lions he weighed in at 364 pounds and said it was the lightest he had been in years. Some linemen look huge and others look light. I have no idea how much they really weigh but I suspect the average lineman's weight will fluctuate greatly during a season. If a team listed every lineman 20 pounds heavier than he was, no one would know.
Blitz
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Cody Husband now weights 215 pounds.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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CardiacKid
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Urban Henry was the biggest guy in the CFL way back in time, 1958-1960. I recall his weight, playing defensive tackle, was 250 pounds.

Lonnie Dennis played OT for us at a listed 220, 1960-1968. (Blitz mentions this above as well.)

I recall OL weights started to shoot up with the Cowboys under Jimmy Johnson in the 1990s. Nate Newton, 335. Erik Williams, 325. Big hosses.

Just looking at the baggage these big OL guys carry around the midriff, one thinks it cannot be all that healthy. Hard on the heart. Hard on the legs. Difficult everywhere.

Obviously size for OL players has advantages. Somewhat similar to sumo wrestlers. But there are risks to one's health.

Some shed a lot of weight after they quit playing (also noted above by Blitz). Hopefully it is in time to prevent health problems.

God bless 'em all. :thup:
When I think about how the transition away from football works out for former CFLers' I find myself thinking about how in many ways it must be hardest for the O-Linemen. Simply because the physique they are required to have in order to be effective in the game is so potentially detrimental in life.

Humans simply are not meant to be 320 pounds big. I can't imagine how compromised their knees and ankles are once they are done. I can't imagine being my current age and not being able to bend over to tie my shoes because my joints are shot. And if they can't reduce their game weight to everyday life weight....well, that ain't so good. The potential ailments becomes a laundry list....high blood pressure leading to stroke or organ damage, heart failure, etc. Of course concussions are part of the equation.

I hope that for the sake of all CFL O-Linemen, the CFLPA and CFL Alumni Association (and the league!) can provide some assistance to players for that physical transition into everyday life.
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